If not, we can certainly start a new thread. So, what do you think? Good reading, right?

Well, I admit I actually listened to them on CD (I just don't have as much time to read as I used to!) and that a major part of my enjoyment of the first couple of books was due to the way they were read, including the wonderful voice characterizations. Jim Dale who recorded the books won some awards, and he deserved them!

Definitely the later books were more intriguing in subject matter and the way they were written to appeal to older kids and adults.

In any case, I have loved "reading" these books and look forward to the next one. We've followed Harry from being a little kid really, to now being at the point where, being forced to take control of his own life, he's prepared to do exactly that. An excellent example for today's youth!

Yay! Lowspark!

I'm SO glad you enjoyed them. How 'bout that last one HUH?? I still have my theory and I'm stickin to it. Let's start ruminating! I'll check in as often as I can (which ain't often these days). I haven't even had time to re-re-read them. sigh. By the way, Mugglenet says that the new movie is coming out in Summer 2007. Still NO word on the new book. There's a rumor about July 07, but who can tell.

Ivette

OK! what's your theory? I didn't read ANY of that old thread so I need to be caught up.

Pirula,

I was so upset after finishing the last one that I flung it across the room! I'm wondering if your theory is the same as mine (which is shades of Gandalf from Lord of the Rings). Please share your theory! I only recently discovered the conversations area & never read the original thread.

Thanks,

Nina

I didn't read (or see) the Lord of the Rings series so I can't guess at your idea Nina. However, I think that the author sort of wanted us to be upset and shaken up, yes? What clearly started out as children's books was meant to grow up as the fans of the first books grew up. We (in America) are used to and expect happy endings. If you've ever watched foreign films, you'll notice that happy endings aren't necessarily the norm in other countries.

Sometimes we're meant to be left feeling uncomfortable, disappointed, upset, confused, etc. Because that's how life really is.

The way the half-blood prince unfolded and ended, to me, was much more satisfying than the previous books. Each of those books wrapped everything up in a nice package with a nice bow. This book leaves us in a state of turmoil, just as Harry must be.

check out this website:

(my daughter is COMPLETELY into HP right now and is just singing her favorite song as we speak, "Double Double Toil and Trouble", which I took the "trouble" to transcribe from the DVD. What a mom...)

Here is a link that might be useful: you'll laugh when you see the URL name

Lowspark, you're right. Being a grown up stinks! :-) And the previous books, while I enjoyed them very much, were tending towards being formulaic in that Harry is convinced of something, everyone turns against him & in the end Harry is vindicated but I definitely see your point in that the books are getting more grown up as the readers (and characters) do.

OK, I never managed to make it through the LotR, books or movies but after watching the first movie (and having read the first book of the trilogy aaaaages ago) I had a bit of a Q&A session with my husband who had devoured the LotR series. So in case anyone reading this thread hasn't finished the Half Blood Prince please skip the rest of this post.

**********SPOILER*********

In the first LotR book the Wizard Gandalf the Grey dies
only to return in a later book as Gandalf the White. I'm wondering if Dumbledore will do the same, especially since he had gone to great lengths to emphasize how implicitly he trusted Snape & since Snape was the one to ultimately "kill" him.

Granted JK Rowling tends to be anything but predictable so it's unlikely that I should be able to "predict" much of anything.

More often than not in my life I've been left feeling disapointed, confused, uncomfortable, etc. I'm getting a little tired of it! I'm a voracious reader & most of what I read doesn't end up with happy endings tied up neatly with a bow.

Nina

p.s. there are SO many hints that Dumbledore is functionally connected to Fawkes...

Flyleft, I agree. There are many references to Fawkes in the last book, and remember at Dumbledore's funeral that it looked like a phoenix shot into the sky? I brought that up on the last threads we had on this, and I still think this is going to develop into something. The father-figure coming back from the dead is a recurring theme, from the LOTR to Star Wars (Obi Wan Kenobi comes back in ghost form) and I'm sure lots of classics of which I am unaware. So maybe it's a red herring, but I doubt it.

Another thing discussed on the last thread was whether Harry might be a horcrux. I'm not sure where I stand on that one.

If Dumbledore comes back (to life) that will ruin the books for me. The only way I can see Dumbledore lending any more help to Harry is through a portrait.

At this point, it seems to me that Harry is sort of saying, ok, every adult whom I've loved is gone. Now, I have to be the adult. I have to let go of childish things and take control over my own life.

For me, if he's ever going to beat Voldemort, he has to take control of his own life and stop depending on adults to lead him. Thus, Dumbledore's death makes perfect sense. Every adult who can or could have helped him is gone.

Harry is about to come of age. He's going to take control and go after Voldemort using his own wits. And that's the perfect next step, Harry, as an adult, figuring things out, doing what he thinks is right, to triumph good over evil.

I don't know about the phoenix, have to think about that. As far as Harry being a horcrux, that would mean Harry would have to die in order for Voldemort to die, but since Harry has to kill Voldemort and no one else can, that makes it a paradox meaning Voldemort will win. I doubt that.

Dumbledore will NOT come back to life. The dude is dead. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it. :) Falkes or no Falkes. He doesn't NEED to come back to help Harry, remember his picture is in the headmaster's (now headmistress') office. He can just go talk to him there if he really needs to.

My theory is that Snape is NOT bad, that this was all a master plan between Dumbledore and Snape. Please, Dumbledore grovel? I don't believe it. I won't believe it. They knew what they were doing. Dumbledore knew all along what had to happen. Why it had to happen is beyond me at this point.

Let's see what else? I'm already starting to forget things. Oh yes, RAD or whatever those initials were I think has to be Sirius' brother. Which is very interesting, and of course, the item in question (which now escapes me was it a necklace?) was previously seen in Sirus' house. JEEZ! How soon I forget.

So the BIG theory that everyone is arguing about is whether or not Harry is actually a horcrux. I do not believe he is for several reasons, not the least of which is it's too easy and also Voldemort was unable to possess him in book V and if he was one of his horcruxes why wouldn't he have been able to?

Here's another theory I have: I think Snape has some connection to Lily, not like blood or anything, but the whole Lily is good at potions thing and his hatred/envy/whatever for James Potter is just too much (even if James was a jerk to him, which he was). So I believe that Snape was in love with Lily or had some other kind of bond to her. She never reciprocated, but that doesn't matter. Perhaps they even had an unbreakable vow or something. I got the distinct impression when he was making the vow with what's her name (Malfoy's mother) that he had done this before. I think that unbreakable vow or whatever his link is to Lily is the reason why Voldemort hesitates in the FIRST place before he kills Lily. And that leads to everything else. Remember, we're told repeatedly that the only reason Harry is alive is because his mother died FOR him. She was given the CHANCE to get out of the way, and refused. This is critical. James was killed instantly and has nothing to do with it. But why on earth did Voldemort give Lily ANY type of chance? The man is ruthless, he doesn't give chances! What's up with that?! I'm telling you, Snape has something to do with it. Snape will be the big hero in the end.

There, those are my theories!!!

This is SO much fun! If only I hadn't signed up for design school, I could re-read Harry Potter instead of the environmental responsibilities of an Interior Designer!!!

Ivette

Of course Snape will be the big hero, he's Alan Rickman :)

(We're going to screen Sense & Sensibility this weekend for my disbelieving daughter :))

Snape was just doing what Dumbledore told him to do...and he is a hero.

It has been awhile since I read the book--but HOW do we know Dumbledore ACTUALLY died? Harry never gets to see the body...remember? He gets hustled off. Ever see the Bond movie "You Only Live Twice"? And while Dumbledore is in his portrait, he's sleeping. Aren't all the other portraits animated at times?

I think you can read it either way...

melanie

msjee, exactly! The body is hustled away, and at the funeral it is all wrapped up. Maybe Dumbledore is a Phoenix animagus? Could that be possible? I also think Dumbledore and Snape had this planned, to protect Malfoy from having to choose whether to kill Dumbledore. So Dumbledore had time to plan how to protect himself. And the allusions he makes to Fawkes all the time are too much to be coincidental.

I'm not convinced this all means that Dumbledore will be back full force, but maybe in some alternate way.

Dead characters coming back to life smacks of soap opera cop outs to me. And I'd like to know why we're all crying in our soup over Dumbledore -- did we also cry over Sirius? Yes, I know Sirius wasn't quite as near and dear to us as Dumbledore but he was certainly near and dear to Harry who was devastated at his death. AND there was no body there -- and in fact no funeral or memorial service.

Ivette,
Yes! I tend to agree with you, and throughout the book, even though all the evidence from the unbreakable vow onward pointed to Snape being bad, I kept thinking that there had to be something beyond what we were being told. So when he killed Dumbledore, for a moment I did wonder if Dumbledore wanted Snape to kill him. Why was Dumbledore saying "Please" to Snape? Please what? Please show mercy OR Please kill me as we've previously agreed.

Let's face it, Dumbledore is wandless, weak, surrounded by death eaters. He is GOING to die. Clearly Malfoy's not going to do it. But those other death eaters, they are fully prepared to kill Dumbledore. Even if it were the case that Snape wanted to save him, could he have? Couldn't there have been a previous agreement between Dumbledore and Snape that he was to kill him?

Remember, Snape is seen by Hagrid arguing with Dumbledore about an important task which Snape has agreed to carry out, saying that Dumbledore took "too much for granted," and that there was something that he was no longer willing to do. Dumbledore insists that it was agreed and must be done. What was that task? Was it to kill Dumbledore?

Some interesting points:
-- Snape is a half-blood. (So is Harry, so is Voldemort)
-- The memories that Snape puts in his pensieve which he doesn't want Harry to see, I sort of wondered about those. Why THOSE memories? Yes, they're personal private stuff, but really, Snape clearly has some memories that he would have wanted to hide from Harry, overhearing the prophecy for one, any of his dealings with Voldemort for another. Could it have been that he'd wanted Harry to see those memories for some reason? Purposely put them in that pensieve and left Harry alone with them?
-- Connection between Snape and Harry -- as Ivette points out. Yes, I agree about that too. Even from the first book it's clear that Snape takes care of Harry - remember how he protects Harry from Professor Quirrell in that Quidditch match in the first book? Why bother if he's the bad guy? No one could have blamed Snape if he'd not stepped up to protect Harry, he did that on his own. He also stops a crucio curse from hitting Harry just as they're escaping from the castle in toward the end. Again, why bother?

lowspark, in the last thread we discussed the deal between Dumbledore and Snape and I think many agreed that their deal was that Snape would kill Dumbledore.

As for "grieving" for Sirius, while Sirius meant a lot to Harry, he was not nearly the powerful wizard that Dumbledore was. And Sirius was more of a brotherly figure to Harry than a fatherly figure. Dumbledore symbolizes so much more than Sirius in these books, and he had so much more to teach Harry and knowledge that he was not able to pass on before he died. Sirius wasn't keeping any secrets.

Oh, and re: the necklace horcrux: our last theory was that it was the locket that was found in Sirius' house when they were all cleaning it.

Remember how Dumbledore was getting weak at the end, and he had that thing going on with his hand? I think he was doing something to prepare himself for being "killed."

I'm going to have to reread the last book. There are so many things I've forgotten.

I cried for Sirius; after that horrible mistake killing Nancy that's the last thing my dear boy needed.

(O.K., so I have a crush on Gary Oldman -- it was a BIG day around here a couple of weeks ago when he finally signed for OotP :))

If I may...

I was shocked when Sirus was killed but it didn't provoke the reaction that it did when Dubledore was. Maybe because we haven't spent as much "time" with Sirius as we have with Dumbledore? Sirius was in, what, 2 of the books? One of which he spent as an escaped prisoner & object of terror? Dumbledore has been there from the very first book & has always been supportive of Harry.

And FWIW I always kinda liked Snape (even before he was Alan Rickman...rowrrrr...), I felt like the author was going out of her way to paint him as mean in the later books.

I really wish I had the time to sit down & re-read them all again. They're long packed by now.

Nina

Iveette,
Exactly. And what's more, not only could he have killed him during that escape, even if he was saving him for Voldemort, he could have taken him as prisoner and delivered him to Voldemort.

Regarding Dumbledore, I never had any doubt that Dumbledore was dead after finishing the book till I read thoughts here that he'd come back. But the more I think about it the more convinced I am that he is indeed dead.

Like I said above, coming back from the dead is sort of a cheap cop out -- and JK Rowling doesn't seem to write that way. She seems to me to just sort of lay out the story as it happens, no excuses no regrets. I just can't see her bringing back Dumbledore just to asuage our sad feelings.

I have to agree with you Lowpark, Dumbledore's not being dead would just be silly in my opinion. I mean, I like him as much as everyone else and was STUNNED, but now I think it was a great plot twist and I'd hate it if she undid it. Then again, I suppose Rowling is certainly clever enough to come up with some great way to bring him back that we haven't thought of and would like. But boy, it'll be a hard sell for me.

What I am really excited about is the first part of the next book, when Harry goes back to Godric's Hollow, I want to see what that place is like and what he learns there. I also can't wait to get more info on Lily and Snape. They're the two big mysteries to me. We seem to know everything we want to know about about Harry, and Voldemort.

Oh and I LOVE Ginny and Harry. I just think they're adorable together. But I'm a sucker for that kind of thing.

What I can't puzzle out is the prophecy. If Harry kills Voldemort does that mean that Harry has to die too? Or no? I can't tell you how many people I know are convinced that Harry will die in the next book, successful or not. Jeez, I hope not. That seems like a totally wrong ending for this series, and not just because it's a children's series. I dunno, maybe it's just me. Alot of them also think that Snape will kill Voldemort, but that seems to go completely against the prophecy.....

Ivette

I agree -- I thought Ginny & Harry belonged together from the first moment they met so I'm very happy they finally connected.

I cannot imagine that Harry will die -- he's the hero. I agree, it would be totally wrong. I thought the prophesy was that the only way for either of them to die was for one to kill the other. But I didn't take that to mean that if one dies, the other one will too. It seems to me that book 7 will be the story of Harry hunting down the remaining horcruxes and coming face to face in a duel with Voldemort as the climax.

I agree also about looking forward to "seeing" Godric's hollow. I'm sure there will be very interesting things to be revealed when Harry arrives there. I'm waiting to find out who R.A.B. is and if they really did destroy that horcrux.

Any interest in discussing character names? Since I didn't follow the first thread, I don't know if this has already been discussed.

I found it interesting that certain characters were given names odd names and others were given common names.

All the characters who have Latin names ending in "us" -- all those names have a meaning:
Albus = white
Rubeus (Hagrid) = red
Sirius is the brightest star of the constellation Canis Major, the Greater Dog, Sirius Black = Black dog
Remus Lupin - Remus of legendary Romulus and Remus, twins nursed by a she-wolf (Lupa means she-wolf)
Argus (Filch) - Argus is a monster with a hundred eyes
Severus = Severe
Bilius (Ron's middle name) = peevish or ill-natured
Lucius = bringer of light
Regulus = prince or heart of the lion, it's the bright star in the constellation Leo

Some other interesting names:
Harry (from Harold meaning Army Ruler)
Hermione (earthy)
Ronald (Advisor to the king)
James (means supplanter)
Lily (the flower?)
Draco = dragon (or serpent), also means cruel or severe
Bellatrix = female warrior
Pettigrew = small growth
Fleur Delaceur = flower of the heart
Tom = twin
Narcissa = vanity, callousness and insensitivity
Phineas (nigelus) = loudmouth

As for Voldemort -- well mort means dead or death, and the only meaning I could find for Vold is that it means violent in Danish. Could = violent death?

Anyway, I think a lot of these names are very interesting any comments?

lowspark, fun list! I would just correct the spelling of coeur ("heart" in French), and offer that Vol de Mort, in French, can mean "flight from death" or "theft of death"...here's a Wikipedia entry on it below.

I was really interested to read Ron's middle name. I see him as an "everywizard" but he sure does have his moods...I wonder if the moods will play a bigger role in the last book..

And here's one cite on the significance of the Lily: "In Christian symbolism the lily represents purity, chastity, and innocence." Just googled "Lily significance".

Here is a link that might be useful: Ralph Fiennes comin' at ya

oh how COOL!!!

Brilliant! That is just brilliant! How clever you guys are!

Too fun,
Ivette

And don't miss Mugglenet, and SquibOnline.com

Here is a link that might be useful: Mugglenet

flyleft,
ah - yes! just a typo on my part.
I like your Vol de Mort explanaition - that didn't occur to me!

thanks for the links, I'll check those out!

My daughter consults mugglenet at least once a day :)