Eng. Wood floor Installers, Need advice uneven floor

16 years ago

Hi, I need advice!

This question is for all engineered wood floor installers: Is there any other way to even out an uneven concrete slab other than pouring more concrete? I would also like your opinion in general regarding the situation at hand.

Details and photo:

I just purchased a beautiful Mercier engineered wood floor that can be either stapled, glued or floated. The floor is being delivered today and I opted for the glue down installation in my original agreement with my contractor. It will be going over a concrete floor (first floor),AND onto a plywood floor which is the extended part of the house. The transition from the concrete to the plywood extension is the most uneven portion, though my contractor says there are other areas of my floor that have "dips and dings" (not visible to my eye). A few weeks ago the contractor told me that I required "patching" and he would charge me $400 dollars additional (which I agreed to).

All of a sudden, my contractor (yesterday) informs me that he brought his installer to my home (just to review everying once again before the installation) and the installer said my floor isnt level. He asked if I would consider tile instead of wood? (no way!) My contractor NOW says he believes I need to pour concrete on my entire first floor to level the floor prior to the installation. He estimates this would cost an additional $3500! (I must have "idiot" written on my forehead). I asked if we switch to a floating floor or plywood underlayment if that would make a difference....his installer said "no, leveling is still required".

When I told him that and additional $3500 is out of the question and asked WHY this wasn't discussed initially (the floor had been exposed for a few months), he said he did a "final review" with the installer and this was determined. He also said there is another way of doing it by hand (leveling glue? as well as sanding down the plywood) which would be approxinately half price ($1500). He will give me both prices (pouring concrete and leveling by hand).

I never installed an engineered wood floor before. Does this sound reasonable OR is he trying to squeeze out extra money at the 11th hour? By the way, my kitchen cabinets are sitting in a warehouse waiting for delivery and as mentioned the wood floor is coming tomorrow. I really dont want to bring another installer into the "mix" because this guy is contracted to install my kitchen and has done very nice work in my home thus far. I'm concerned also that "sanding" the plywood would weaken the integrity of that portion of the floor. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Is there another way to even out an uneven concrete slab other than pouring more concrete? See photo below of the most uneven portion of the floor where the concrete slab meets the plywood extension on the house. Thanks so much for your consideration, Melanie 1121

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Comments (5)

floorguy
16 years ago
Is that $400 on your contract?
If so, how exactly is it worded? Minimal floor prep... Or does it say float low areas, or something to that effect????

He has certainly under bid the floor prep, in order to get you to sign a lower cost proposal/contract!!! You signed a contract to complete the job to manufacturer requirements. I would hold him to the original quote. I don't know the laws in your state about contracts, but here if they sign it and your contracted and they back out, you can get it done by another contractor, and have them pay the difference, in cost, if higher then the original contract.

This is the EXACT reason I do not put a firm number on floor prep. Even if you can see the substrate, it is very hard to estimate the amount of "mud" or the man hours it is going to take to get it done right. Putting a number on it and underbidding, causes corners to be cut in the most important part of the installation. Over bidding it, makes your client think your ripping them off.

That's why I do all floor prep at, Time & Materials.

Since I can't see the project myself, I can't tell if it needs a full self leveler(which is rare) or just to grind the highs & fill the lows.

In the wood/concrete junction picture, I could screed that and make it work, given the wood is exactly even with the concrete, as it should be if done right.
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glennsfc
16 years ago
I agree with floorguy. Did the installer bring tools with him to map out the high and low spots (bird baths)...straight edge, laser, string,...anything? I can eyeball a floor pretty well without tools, but tools add to the credibility factor.

You want the floor FLAT to within manufacturer's guidelines. LEVEL actually is a misused term in flooring and doesn't necessarilly describe what needs to be done.

A good self leveling underlayment job on an area you describe could indeed cost what the installer is saying it will. Self leveling portland based flooring underlayment is not cheap and the work to prepare the surfaces for the compound uses additional materials and is a labor intensive process.

Good luck with what you decide to do, but be aware that there are FEW shortcuts when it comes to floor preparation (i.e., do it right the first time or do it again very soon.
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Ha! Looks like this won't be nearly as hard as I thought. I was was able to move the refrig myself and then go measure where the low spot was and find the area in the basement. The shims went in much easier than I thought they would. I wonder if the weight of the refrig was responsible? The dip is almost gone in about 30 minutes of work. Now there still seems to be a little dip between the joists where sheets of plywood meet. I may have to add an additional joist there if I can get it in, unless someone can tell me and easier or less expensive fix for that. I will have to see when the rest of the kitchen cabinets come up, if there are any more dips that need to be fixed. This could run into time, money and more muscle than I have if I have to add a lot more joits. Anyway, I am waiting for help to add the 2 x 6s along side the joists to support the new height of the subloor. A woman I work with was able to give me some directions as well as what I got here, and a firm "now go do it!" that I apparently needed. Sounds harder and scarier than it really it. :) THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE! Sue
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The elevation means = zero. The HUMIDITY being set at 45% = EVERYTHING! The indoor living conditions between 18 C - 25 C = EVERTYHING. The WOOD manufacturer (the guys who make the floor) MUST HAVE the 'in-floor radiant heat' option LISTED in the 'installation instructions'. If it is NOT listed = NOT ALLOWED. Your radiant floor system MUST BE hydronic (water/gel/oil). There are VERY FEW wood manufacturers who ALLOW electric systems underneath their floors. I don't care what the heating dudes say, it's NOT their call. It is the WOOD FLOORING manufacturer who holds ALL THE CARDS. Go ahead and pull up the installation instructions and READ them. You want to see the words, "Over Radiant Heat" as a heading. If you do NOT see it, it is NOT allowed. And if it is not allowed it means they TRIED to get it to work but they FAILED....miserably. What is your CURRENT humidity level in your home RIGHT NOW? Let's start there.
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melanie1121
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks for your reply. I agree...I think he underbid the prep. In any case I DO want the job done correctly and we agreed on a price. I honestly just want to get this all over with so I can install my cabinets and move on. I am hoping for no new surprises. Thanks! Also, thanks for your other answer posted on my Bostik question : )
Melanie
floorguy
16 years ago
I just noticed that black asbestos cutback adhesive residue. It will have to be abated and the left overs encapsulated, before self levelers, patching compounds or adhesive are used.
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glennsfc
16 years ago
Yes, the cutback needs to be dealt with as let's say Ardex recommends. The resilient additive needs to be part of the recipe.

Not to make trouble here, but find out what products the installer intends to use and get a short decription of the process. Since you're one who likes detail, then get them in this case. Floor prep can be very specific. I've done such a floor as yours and you do need to adhere to underlayment manufacturer formulas and methods for a successful job. That is,of course, if the installer is going to use self lever in this case.

Good luck.
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Eng. Wood floor Installers, Need advice uneven floor

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floorguy

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Eng. Wood floor Installers, Need advice uneven floor

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