High efficiency isn't necessarily better for everyone????

10 years ago

My heat broke and I have struggling with new system choices. Since energy efficiency nowadays is so much emphasized, I THOUGHT replacing the old 8 seers 3 ton unit with 16 or higher 3 ton is going to use less energy in the future than before. However, after reading about "load calculation," my 1700 sq ft house may not need a 3 ton higher seer unit, especially with my life style.

My house is always very humid even in winter, now rh about 60%, because I use the washer to wash sweaters, wool sucks, and down coats, and AIR DRY them in winter. I boil water all the time and almost merely steam almost all foods. I set lower temperature in winter and higher temperature in summer, compare with most of Americans. In winter, our heat almost never is running at night, because we love tuck ourselves in a heavy comforter, which makes our sleep better (more like hibernation).

So.... I would say that higher seer units are more efficient for more extreme climates, while I live in GA. Summer and winter here is so mild. The usage of the unit is much less. A higher seer unit, like 16, would not energy saving anymore in my house condition, right???

What seer would you recommend to me, living in a pretty much maximum energy saving environment already?

Although I haven't had someone to do the load calculation yet, do you think it's more sensible to go for a 2.5 ton rather than a 3, due to humidity level being so high in my house?

Thanks a bunch

Comments (9)

mike_home
10 years ago
How type of heating system do you have and what fuel do you use?

What are you annual costs to heat and cool your house? How much is the cost of electricity and the heating fuel you use?

I thought the summers in Georgia were hot and humid, but you say they are mild. What is a average high temperatures in the summer?

If you provide more information you will get better guidance.
chueh
Original Author
10 years ago
LOL... mike_home. yep, I guess that everybody's point of ivew of comfort is different. To me, GA is very mild, although people say that it's humid and hot. I lived in Miami before, so I have the comparison. Comparing to the north states, the winter is so mild.

August temp: between 90-95 average....
December + January: between 20-55...

Unlike many people who set their t-stat at 72 degree for winter, while wearing a t-shirt. I feel better to wear layers in winter, so I don't like to feel the EXTREME changes between indoors and outdoors.

We use electricity for the entire house, no gas or other fuel system.

I am not sure how to separate the cost of merely heat and AC from the annual electricity cost! I have never calculate the kwh of the HVAC. Anyway, here is the total usage annually, if that would help you to figure out to answer your question for me:

Jan 800 kwh
Feb 1000
Mar 880
Apr 450
May 450
Jun 650
Jul 580
Aug 790
Sep 570
Oct 400
Nov 570
Dec 1000
* This past December reached up to 1200, because the heat pump was acting up and iced up while it was running for no heat.....

See... our electricity usage is not much compared to most people's. So....high energy efficient wouldn't help, right?
Related Discussions
USDA Hardiness Zone system -- isn't there something better?
Q
Comments (15)
Thanks, everyone for your interesting additions to this thread. Desertlvr, your response includes another perfect example of how the zone system is just too general. It consistently shows valleys as being in warmer zones than surrounding uplands, something all of us here in NM know is not always true. For example, most zone maps show the espanola valley of Northern NM in Zone 7, and surrounding higher elevations in zone 6, but every time I watch the weather report, the nighttime lows for the former location are colder than for Santa Fe, for example, nearly 2000 feet higher. Obviously this particular valley is a major cold air drainage, and although daytime highs are often a few degrees warmer than the higher terrain, nights are in fact colder, especially so under clear skies (which always produce the coldest temps here). I guess more than anything this post has reinforced my confidence in establishing my own zone designations for a given area, and for continuing to experiment with plants that are not typically grown in the broader area due to zone generalizations. A few examples of these that have already survived a few winters: Ferocactus wiszlizenii (spelling) Yucca whipplei Echinocereus engelmannii Echinocereus stramineus Agave deserti Currently trying: (with protection) Agave americana Pomegranate Fig Asian Persimmon Windmill Palm
...See More
Geotherm vs uber high efficiency gas
Q
Comments (6)
Cschmelz, I gather you're in the Spokane area? I'm in Missoula, and I have a Climatemaster Tranquility 27, installed two years ago. It provides heat and air conditioning for our century old stucco bungalo. You might be able to find some of my old posts by searching this forum. I noted just a couple of things in your post. First off, I thought the price for the basic heat pump installation with ground loops was pretty reasonable for this sort of thing. Second, I wondered why your contractor felt the necessity for adding a solar collector to improve the performance during the winter. My thought, and I may well be wrong, is that if the ground loop is large enough and deep enough you should have no need to help it with the water-to-water/solar collector, which stirked me as Rube Goldbergish. (Keep It Simple, Stupid). That assumes, of course, that your 10 tons of heating/cooling is sufficient. As for hot water you may well find that with the desuperheater on at least one of your Climatemasters that you don't need a very large or even efficient water heater. Again, I may well be wrong, but if that heat pump is properly sized and installed and backs up a conventional 40-50 gallon gas water heater you'll have everything you need. Of course, if you have three teenagers you'll need all the hot water you can get, and all my guesses are hereby withdrawn. Caveat: I ain't no engineer or installer, and there are better minds than mind on this forum, but that's my two bits for what it's worth. Good luck, Mark
...See More
comparison of new very high efficiency water heaters
Q
Comments (0)
As an aside to my research about my water heater/ water space heating cost woes, I am researching the newer very high eficiency water heaters that could be used in conjunction with this application. Can everyone share what they know about Polaris, Apollo, Vertex, and Bock? The local Polaris dealer doesn't carryt hem in stock and was trying very hard to convince me that Bock is better and more reliable. The somewhat new Vertex seems to be almost a clone of Polaris. There are others that are even more expensive than Polaris, if you can believe it but I just passed those by. I can't find costs online for Vertex or Apollo.... I am still trying to discover from any source what a ball park middle of the road figure is for propane usage for a 75 gallon water heater for water space heating by forced air furnace
...See More
High efficiency vs Non HE, makes difference?
Q
Comments (53)
I think the HE machines have come a long way in the last few years, but i completely understand the frustration - my mom bought high end HE machines when they first came out and the odor issue was a huge problem, there were problems with the drains, and they did not clean well. I did a lot of research before i bought mine because we had just moved, we needed several other appliances, and money was tight. I used reviews that tested multiple appliances, including consumer reports and a few others. The Cabrio had the best reviews at our price point 3 years ago, and I'm happy with it. I guess we'll see in 10 more years! After a while i can tell it needs a clean cycle because my white aren't quite as bright, but I have hard water, so I guess I see that as a reasonable maintenance chore. After I run the washing machine cleaner I always rewash all of the whites and they look great. Compared to my old machine, I'd say the only difference is that I have to spend a little more time pre-treating stains before they go in the wash - in the 'olden days' my wasteful self would just throw in extra detergent and add an extra rinse cycle, but with this machine I do have to actually spray the stains with something since extra detergent builds up. I noticed a significant difference in performance with powder detergent vs. liquid, but it became more and more difficult to find Tide HE powder. A couple of months ago I had to buy those Pods because they stopped carrying powder at the store nearest my house. I'll admit, I'm really cynical of any kind of convenience packaging because it always ends up being a huge waste of money, so I resented buying them, but I didn't have many options that day. They actually worked pretty well - better than the liquid I remember, and my husband is notorious for throwing in detergent without measuring so we really don't go through them as fast. So, maybe liquid detergent has improved and I just didn't notice. i think you have to weigh the manufacturer's recommendation with the type of water where you live, too. Even before my HE machine I converted to 'brand name' detergent. There are only two items on my shopping list I never buy generic or substitute: laundry detergent and diapers. Tide and Huggies . . . and I sound like a commercial. I really don't think it is about HE vs. not HE at this point, it is more about research. When you go to buy, try to research each model individually, not just specific brands.
...See More
mike_home
10 years ago
The decision to invest in more efficiency comes down to how long is the pay back period. Your energy usage does not seem high, and your electric rate is probably low to average, so the pay back period may be very long.

Just a few things to consider. For AC condensers the minimum SEER rating allowed by federal law is 13. A SEER rating of 15-16 is considered the best value in terms of initial cost and energy savings. The low end equipment may have a 13 SEER rating, be built of cheap materials, and have very basic features. You are better off buying quality equipment. Usually it also means better efficiency.

The size should be determined by a load calculation. If the 3 ton worked well, then it is probably the right size. If you want better humidity control in the summer, I suggest getting a 2-stage condenser. These only come in whole ton sizes and usually have higher efficiency ratings.
chueh
Original Author
10 years ago
OK....So...Mike_home, even for my low electricity usage and life style, 15-16 is still the best value, due to they are "better built" even with a reputable manufacturer like Carrier?
mike_home
10 years ago
I would avoid buying the bottom line units.

FYI - The SEER rating is determined by the combination of the condenser, coil, and handler. It also changes when you move up and down in size with the same equipment.

Don't get so focused on buying a SEER rating. Stick with the one of the better brands, get it sized correctly, and find a contractor who can do a good installation.
chueh
Original Author
10 years ago
OK thanks...
joe_mn
10 years ago
You have a heat pump now? Maybe in my world I assume all heat pumps are high efficiency? You also say you have all electric service so you have an electric water heater? Seems to me that is a huge energy device.
pbx2_gw
10 years ago
Unlike many people who set their t-stat at 72 degree for winter, while wearing a t-shirt. I feel better to wear layers in winter, so I don't like to feel the EXTREME changes between indoors and outdoors.

Isn't this the truth?! Wear some layer & lower it down to 68 & people would see savings in their bills.
countryboymo
10 years ago
Well if you step up to a decent efficiency (15) seer that has good ahri numbers that match you will probably get a txv as standard equipment instead of a piston orifice which helps cut humidity which will make whatever temp is comfortable in summer now feel cooler possibly allowing a higher set temp. It will also probably come with demand defrost which will save you more in winter than you might think if you use a heat pump. If it is above freezing my system rarely goes into defrost unless something is falling from the sky and its below freezing. A builders grade 13 seer will defrost on a timed system defrosting after every 30/60 or 90 minutes of accrued run time and some run for a full 10 minute cycle. Most systems have oversized heat strips so every defrost burns $$ in comparison to none.

I think you would be happy either way.. The better system will pay you back with better comfort and quieter operation with a probable longer lifespan and better warranty.

It seems either way a new system is going in. Don't forget to calculate the cost differential between the options.

High efficiency isn't necessarily better for everyone????

Comments (9)

mike_home

chueh
Original Author

Related Discussions

mike_home

chueh
Original Author

mike_home

chueh
Original Author

joe_mn

pbx2_gw

countryboymo

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

High efficiency isn't necessarily better for everyone????

Comments (9)

mike_home

chuehOriginal Author

Related Discussions

mike_home

chuehOriginal Author

mike_home

chuehOriginal Author

joe_mn

pbx2_gw

countryboymo

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

chueh
Original Author

chueh
Original Author

chueh
Original Author