engineered hardwood floor over old hardwood floor

8 years ago

Hi everyone
My house needs a big renovation, and i am planning to change the floors.

I am planning to put new engineered hardwood floor in the hallway, new carpet in the bedroom and living room, and new tile in the kitchen.

current situation: There are solid hardwood floor in the living room, bedroom, and hallway. The hardwood floors are level and plumb to each other in these three areas.

i have attached some pictures here.

Question 1a: After installing the carpets in the living room and bedroom, the carpet itself would be half an inch higher then the hallway(without the new hardwoodfloor on the hallway). Should i place the new hard wood floor over the old hard wood floor on the hallway? or should i take away the old hardwood floor and rise the subfloor a bit higher ,then put the new hardwoodfloor on it.

Question 1b: should i use those interlocking-edge hardwood floor in this project?

Question 2: The other problem i am facing is that i have a water tank heater in the hallway. should i leave the old hardwood floor pieces alone around the heater? and glue new pieces on it around the heater?

Question 3: The other reason why i want to rise the subfloor in the hallway is because i want to put tile in the kitchen. Right now, the kitchen's floor (without cement board and tile) is level and plumb to the hallway. And i believe after installing cementboard and tile in the kitchen, the floor in the kitchen would be atleast 3/4 inch higher than the hallway.

so overall, what i am trying to achieve here is that i would like to keep all the floor at the same height as much as possible.

Thank you for reading this.
Any help would be great.

Featured Answer

weedyacres

8 years ago

I would still investigate further before tearing it up. The wood could squeak and be very "weak" feeling because it's insufficiently supported by the floor joists. Those can be fixed/beefed up from below. Is there a basement or crawl space below this that you can look up at the joist support? How far apart are the joists? Are they sagging? What kind of subfloor is under the hardwood floor? Take a photo if you can.

The way you know that you can't sand a floor another time is if you can see the tongues of the boards. I'm not seeing any of that in the photos. I think they're worn, but not over-sanded.

Glenn: I missed the detail you noticed, where the long hallway has some 3-in-1 wide flooring, which was probably added later. somuch: if it's the same level as the entryway, they probably tore out the original wood and put this over the subfloor. So to replace this, I'd tear it out and lay down new boards that match the species and width of the entryway.

A radiator needs to be drained before moving. Google "how to drain a home radiator" to find a youtube video showing how it's done.

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Comments (14)

somuchto1earn
Original Author
8 years ago
http://postimg.org/gallery/1z8trzts/8de4fd7a/
weedyacres
8 years ago
Here's a live link to your photos.

Here is a link that might be useful: photos
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ok, this is an area where I actually know something! I sold and spec'ed hardwood for a custom shop before my mommy-life. The information you are getting here is correct. Engineered floors will give you 1-2 refinishings ON A PERFECT SUBFLOOR. One of the issues that sometimes arises if there are inconsistanies in the height of your subfloor. Because there is thinner wood wearlayer (before you get to the engineered wood) there is the chance that you can damage the floor irreparably when you sand it. Now I only saw this saw this happen twice, once on a loft job and once in an older home. The loft was more subtle as it was over concrete, the old house more obvious as they were DIYers and picked engineered flooring to try to negate their irregular subfloor (they neglected to tell us that that was why they chose engineered, we would have talked them out of it had we seen the floor first) Neither of their claims to the manufacturer were fully settled because both times they did not follow the guidelines for floor prep. The loft job was also a materials only job for us with their GC laying the floors but he insisted he knew what he was doing. A good engineered floor will not be cheaper than most of your nail down options because the production costs are higher. Now having said that, GOOD engineered floors certainly have their place in places where you can't put traditional hardwood due to height restrictions or concrete subfloors. My boss had a great engineered floor in his basement and it survived a flood remarkably well (it was ash, Kahrs brand out of Scandinavia and one of the beefier engineered floors and one of the pioneers) My Grandmother also had a Kahrs floor in her ground suite condo and she LOVED it and I was impressed by the milling. I'm considering it for our basement because it's warmer and less echo-y than laminate There has been a lot of 2nd rate engineered flooring coming out of China and being labeled for all sorts of different companies. You should be able to tell an engineered sample because the layers are sandwiched together and the tongue will be a different wood than the top (showing) layer. Distressed finishes are usually more expensive because of the extra step in manufacturing to make it distressed. That is different than just getting a lower grade of hardwood like a rustic or tavern grade (in solid hardwood). Those grades have more character but they often don't carry a warranty and generally have a higher waste percentage. Another thing to think about---if you ever have to replace part of the floor, you will always be able to replicate 3/4" thick hardwood but engineered floors are more like tile, they change and get discontinued over the years. You could go pre-finished, save the hassle of site finishing but with the thicker wear-layer a 3/4" nail down floor offers. Only you will know if you can handle beveling or not. The changes in milling the last 10 years are huge. The bevel in your better milled wood is tiny. I like Canadian mills, Model or Mirage for pre-finished. Remember that if you ever re-finish, the bevel will disappear and you will, essentially have a site finished floor. One benefit that many people don't know about? 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weedyacres
8 years ago
OK, I have to jump right in here and say those floors with the inlay are gorgeous! Why would you want to cover over them with different wood? If you prefer carpet in the bedroom and LR, then you can put it over top, but please preserve the original floors so that a future owner can restore them.

I would refinish the entry and hallway floors. They are in good shape and will be stunning. To work around the radiator, you should be able to disconnect the piping, pull it out temporarily, lift up the metal escucheons, and sand the area.

Don't worry about a transition "up" from hardwood to carpet. Because carpet compresses when you walk on it, the transition shouldn't be noticeable.

The kitchen looks like it's higher than the hallway. Have you excavated to determine what's in the layers? I'd tear it down to the subfloor, then put tile back on. Ditra will take up less space than cement board, and is easier to work with.
glennsfc
8 years ago
It looks as if you have several different wood flooring products in these areas. The floors with the border look like solid hardwood of some thickness. Although you say that the hallway floor is solid construction, it sure does look like a three strip engineered product, such as that made by Kahrs, Tarkett or some other; that could be floated, glued or mechanically fastened to the substrate. Difficult to say what I'd recommend based on my view of your photos and your description. The questions that come to mind is...do you leave it all down and go on top, as you seem to suggest you want to do...or do you take it all out, including the kitchen floor down to the subfloor and build up from there?

Refinishing it all up is an option with the possibility, as weedyacres suggests, of investigating removal of the kitchen floor down to the subfloor to give you the clearance to produce a flush result between the wood and the new tile. The Ditra system is about the best you can use for the tile job.

Your budget may help determine what you eventually decide to do.
glennsfc
8 years ago
Also, in looking at another pic of your sheet vinyl floor, it appears as if it was glued directly to another hardwood strip floor...is that what I'm seeing?
somuchto1earn
Original Author
8 years ago
Hi Weedyacres
Thank you for your reply.

WaterTankHeater:
Do you know if the WaterTankHeater would spill water out if i turn it off and take it apart?

Hallway: The entrance's floor produces loud squeaky sound when i step on it. And it feels hollow when i step on it. The floor seems to be very "thin", looks and feels like it has been sanded many times by the previous owner. (i know its a very bad idea to lay new wood floor on top of it. haha)

Kitchen: Thank you sharing the Ditra idea to me.
Yes, the kitchen floor has many layers. The layer you see in those pictures were actually the third layer of the original floor.

Thank you
somuchto1earn
Original Author
8 years ago
Hi glennsfc
Thank you for your reply.

Yes you are right. The hallway's floors are mixed with two different kind of wood. And the entrance's woodfloor feels very "weak" to me.

and Yes, the Vinyl is glued down to other hardwood floor.

After reading you and Weedyacres's comments , should i take away the old hardwood floor in the hallway and replace it with the new one?

Thank you
somuchto1earn
Original Author
8 years ago
Hi Weedyacres
Thank you for your advice.

Hopefully i do not need to beef up from below.
Can i use these squeak no more product for joining the subfloor to the joist together?

http://www.amazon.ca/OBerry-Squeak-No-More-Kit/dp/B0006IK8YE

I have used some of them on my living room's floor.
it worked perfectly.

Also,for the kitchen, should i tear up all the layers, put a 1/2 inch plywood right no the subfloor for the Ditra?

From what i know, i need a very solid and stable base for Ditra product.

I will keep you update on it.

Thank you
weedyacres
8 years ago
For the kitchen tile, it depends on what the existing subfloor is. In our current (1920) house, the subfloor is diagonal 1x10s, so to tile we'd have to add plywood, then the Ditra. So tear your kitchen out, see what you've got, and then come back here and we can advise.

And tell us what you find from the basement/crawl space under the entry way floor.

Beefing up the floor from below isn't necessarily a huge deal. It depends on what's below (basement vs. crawl, finished vs. unfinished).
somuchto1earn
Original Author
8 years ago
Hi Weedyacres

i have uploaded some new pictures of the kitchen here.
Please have a look.

There are only few squeaky sound in the kitchen.
I believe i can fix it with some "squeak no more" screws.

Another problem, the kitchen's exist door area has a different kind of floor. and that floor itself is a bit higher than the surrounding area.

other than that, the kitchen's floor is quite stable and solid.

so my question is, should i pour some "Level Quick Self Leveling Underlayment" product around the kitchen's floor to smooth out the floor, and then install the Ditra?

or pull all the wood out and then install 1/2 inch T&G plywood on it, and then install the Ditra?

The entrance area:
right below the entrance area is a finished area.
there is no sagging in the entrance area, just heavy squeaky sound.

Thank you for sticking with my problem.
i know i have asked so many question...but i want to get it right and do it right .

Thank you

Here is a link that might be useful: Pictures
weedyacres
8 years ago
You need to do a little more archeological digging still. You need to know the whole construction of the floor before you can decide how best to install something new.

I'd take up that plywood piece in the kitchen and see what's under it. It's higher than the surrounding floor, so needs to go. You should also be able to see from there what subfloor is under the original kitchen hardwood.

It's too bad the space under your entryway is finished, but I'd still do some exploring from below to see what's under there, and to figure out the fix to stop it from squeaking. Is it drywall below or a drop ceiling? I know it probably seems like a pain to tear out drywall, but if you cut out a clean patch, like 2' x the width of the joists, it'll be relatively simple to repair. Just make sure to cut it down the center of the joists so that there's room to screw the patch piece to it later. Cut the hole under the area that squeaks the most, if you can. Have someone walk on and watch the floor from below to see what's moving. It might be as simple as pounding in a couple shims from below, or face-nailing a loose board from above.

You want to find out what's underneath the hardwood. It might be laid directly on the floor joists, or there might be 10" wide boards that the hardwood is nailed to.

Another thought is to take out a board in the hallway, since that's not original and you want to replace it. See what the subfloor is there.

I am a bit puzzled at why, when you've stripped the kitchen down to the original hardwood, it's still higher than the hallway floor. Is your current surface perhaps not the original kitchen hardwood? Peeling back the plywood area will help determine that.

BTW, I haven't heard of that stop squeaking product you linked to, so can't offer any personal opinion.

And don't pour self-leveling compound over top of hardwood. It needs to go over plywood.
somuchto1earn
Original Author
8 years ago
Hi Weedyacres
Good to hear from you again.
About the kitchen's floor:
I have replaced the old plywood(It laid directly on the joist) with the new 3/4'' plywood near the exit area. From that, i know the joists are 19 oc. The hardwood locking floors are 3/4" and are laying perpendicular to the joist. There seem to be nothing under the hardwood locking floor .( i could be wrong.)

something like this?
http://sonicchicken.net/blog/wordpress/20071203/hardwood-salvage/

i have attached new pictures of the hardwood locking floor

can i just put 3/8" plywood over the hardwood floor, and then install the Ditra?

Here is a link that might be useful: new pictures
weedyacres
8 years ago
Do you have a close-up photo of the edge of the hardwood before you put the plywood down? It looks, from this photo below, that there's something supporting the hardwood flooring. But i can't tell if it's a perpendicular joist or some 1x6s or something.

Another reason I think you've got a subfloor is that the plywood you added is lower than the rest of the floor, so it means the total thickness is >3/4".

Did you/can you pull up a board in the hall to see if it's got a subfloor under it or if it's directly on the joists?

engineered hardwood floor over old hardwood floor

weedyacres

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