I know there is a lot more to the story than you could possibly ever tell us and that sometimes you have to be there to actually understand. I just tried to look at what you were saying and tried to offer help. When I said about them going to court and taking the kids~I meant to also add that they could also just come and get them. Going to court was of course the extreme. It does make the situation a little different when I know they had you take them so they wouldn't totally loose them. Most people in they're situation would be in denial of a problem and keep the kids until the state did step in and even then they're in denial. It is good that they realize to some extent that there is a problem. What happened with your DIL that she is the way she is? Did her mother do the same as she's doing with her kids and that's why she never learned things? Or is it that she had a problem that they didn't accept was there and this is the end result? Most of the examples of things that she couldn't do are simple things that can very easily be learned, as you said. I guess it makes you realize just how lucky we are. We take advantage of being able to every day little tasks that are VERY hard for others. After reading your last reply I have a different out look with your situation. I can see that your son isn't really trying to be selfish. He made a few mistakes (like getting her pregnant this time) but he has to really love her to deal with all of this. I guess from what I read previously I just thought he thought it was easier this way and didn't care if he had the kids or not. Does he call and come see them and does your DIL also? I would think this has to be hard on them, too. Has anyone tried to contact your DIL's parents? Maybe just to ask them what her history was and so on. I thought it sounded like she just disowned them but why? Like if the sexual abuse story was all made up, what was the reasoning behind that? (Just went back and reread and I saw about her mother calling SS when the daughter got outside while the mother was asleep. I can understand why she called SS~the child was in danger. I wish my MIL had the guts to do that to SIL and BIL. The kids about 2 years ago~they were 4 and 2~packed a bag and decided, well Eric decided, to go get Mommy at work. They were outside in t-shirts and diapers and/or underwear in the middle of winter! Meanwhile they're father was in the house sleeping away. They were too cheap to send the kids to a sitter so BIL worked 11-7 and then had to stay up with the kids until his wife got home around 3pm. The kids were forced to nap or stay in they're rooms most of the day while he would sleep! They got out twice! They happened to live across from the school and one of the teachers saw these two and took them inside and called the police. BIL just happened to think he better call the police and report them missing. Later that day they were laughing about the whole thing!!!) Her past may be of great help for you guys now to deal with all this. Did she come from a very loving home? Would all the attention and love and support be something that could help her greatly? I know you said she would make things hard if she came to live with you but would the outcome be better for her and your son and their kids? Would it be any harder than it could be to care for 3 kids until they are adults? I don't know if I am any help. I guess talking about it and getting this out helps a little more than anything. Taking it one day at a time will help also. You can't really worry about what will happen when the baby comes until that day comes. I'm sure you'll do alright no matter what happens. It truly does sound like your grandson is doing much better with you and you're teaching him so much. I hope you're enjoying this time. It also is great to know you took in Caroline because she's not really your biological grandchild and many people are different with step grands. Maybe you can help her out before it's too late, also. Many of the "problems" that you have with her may just be because of her age. It's that pre-teen age and you think you know it all. Also I don't know if you had daughters but some people will say they are harder at this age and if your other children were boys, that will make it harder for you. It's certainly going to be different. Also, she's older and had more influence from her mother and others in her life. It also sounded like she had to take care of herself a lot of the time and maybe she thinks she doesn't need help now? Plus she probably wasn't used to having rules or someone at least making sure she stuck by them. Zachery was pretty small and young when you got him so he's learning most of his stuff from you. YOu and your husband will be in most of his memories as a child and you'll have a great effect on who he becomes. I just greatly admire you for what you have taken on. Good luck with the future!

Hi Dorothy, I don't ever come on the forum but for some reason today I did - I saw you post and wanted to write. I have my two grandkids living with me, and have for the past 9 years, ages 9 and 11. When I first took the kids, (my daughter was into drugs) I thought it would be temporary and she would come to her senses. That was 9 years ago. I love my grandkids deeply and can't even imagine my life without them now, but at the beginning it was very hard. You are basically giving up your life, I quit working (the baby was less than 2 months old) sometimes I think - who am I - I have lost myself totally. But then I see how happy and secure the kids are and I know that this is where they belong. The see their mom a couple of times a year, she is not into drugs (although every once in a while she goes off on one) but she just doesn't have that motherly feeling, she loves the kids but it doesn't bother her a bit that they don't live with her, nor does she want them too. Anyway if you ever need a shoulder to lean on I'm here. Julie from FL

I'd give almost anything to have what you want for your children. I seem to be in the opposite situation. All of my children live in other states. Son not married. One daughter is married and seems to never call unless she wants to talk about something she's into. My other daughter calls at least once a week. I call each at least once a week. My first daughter will say it's not convient or she's tired,it costs money or something. All 3 are on line and so I started Emailing and asking them to write when it was convient for them, do they no. I really feel sorry for my grandchildren because they are missing out on having grandparents. The others live in Fl and have their own live except for one week a year when they all meet at the beach with all the aunts, uncles and cousins. I think that's great but we can't do that. I've tried to adjust to their schedules and it still doesn't seem to work, can't get them to come once a year. So may people miss out on so much love that is just waiting for them if they'd only allow it but it really can't be forced on them. I miss them all so very much and yes, I do go and visit when I can... which is usually not more than a week a year. I've thought of adopting a family here where I live but I feel I'd be cheating my grandchildren. Be thankful that you have the parents that you have and that you are the mother and daughter that you are and let the others go. Your hubby knows what their like and if he's okay with it just love your family. Blessings to you Sweetie, Gig Ghee

Talk about the situation with your husband. Develop your own position as unified parents of the child in question (and as your own family unit). This is so that you and he are going to reinforce each other _even_ when there might be 'jealous feelings' or whatever on the part of the grand adults. They might naturally feel closer to you or to him and might then try to go to one or the other of you when they feel slighted or hurt. It's one thing to soothe them because hurt feelings hurt, but they shouldn't get to vent anger over your (either of your) partner's decisions to you. People just have feelings. Everyone is an individual and their brains and moods are all wired together just a touch differently. They might feel jealous. If they have strong feelings they don't like or which they notice are not conducive to the kinds of human/family relations they want to enjoy and maintain then they should seek counseling on their own behalf so that they can improve their situation. There isn't really anything you can do about their painful feelings. You can be as diplimatic as you like. Maybe they don't realize it, if they get to sounding like your child's presence is an object for which they all must compete. Gently asking if they mean to sound that way can give them a chance to explain what it is they are intending to sound like. On the phone you can enforce your own limits about any venting you will listen to before hanging up (they can be invited to call back when they can speak in a civil/communicative manner without venting). Just be prepared if you set a limit, to enforce it consistently and repeatedly (they will probably 'test' this new situation). Issues between or within the grandparents are between or within them, and not you. Try to pull yourself out when/if they try to put you in the middle. An example of this which could be going on is a 'jealousy' of proximity. The grass always appears greener someplace else. All the grandparents undoubtedly love the grandchild and want what's best for that child and their family. If some grandparents live a lot closer, that's something grandparents who live further away might envy or feel jealous about. It can seem like the closer ones could or can always do anything and be close without even having to plan. That may or may not be reality, but when living further away and wishing to live and to be closer, it feels like something that could be going on... when stressed, maybe it feels like something that _must_ be going on. People who are depressed sometimes tend to thinking and feeling in this way. If any of the grands could be experiencing depression they need help and advice from their doctors. identify what you know, in terms of the facts and try not to interpret (go through the sequences of events as they occurred and as they occur rather than ascribing 'jealously' because there could be a lot of other things going on); then identify how you feel about the different things; talk to the pairs of grandparents individually or together (individually allows you to personalize the same basic info, but together illustrates for everyone in a tangible way just how equal every one is)... the most important thing though is for you and your partner to be solid and clear between yourselves as the parents (and family with your child)