I am sorry I don't have any words of wisdom since I have never been in a similar situation, I can't imagine the worrying.

I just wanted to comment on the roselvr's post. Now that you say it, it makes total sense, but I had never thought of it before. That fax tone drives me nuts, and I could not figure out what was causing it. DUH! The alarm. Of course it is the only other thing hooked up to the phone line. It must be that!

They were also kept where we could not get to them. The thing about keeping guns away from the kids is that it automatically adds retrieval time when you need it. Guns MUST be kept unloaded, under lock and key AT ALL TIMES, even during the night, because kids wake up at night and prowl around a bit. Don't kid yourself: Statistically,

Are my children at risk if I own a gun??
This is a controversial subject. Many people feel safer when they have a gun at hand. However, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP)* has reviewed the current medical research on the subject and concluded that if you have children, it is safer not to have a gun in your home (see the AAP policy statement for more details).

What if I've taught my kids not to touch a gun if they find one?
A number of studies [9], [10], [11], [12], suggest that even kids who are trained not to touch guns can't resist, and that parents have unrealistic expectations about their kids' behavior around guns. That's why parents are encouraged to keep guns unloaded and locked separately from ammunition , and to ask about guns at the houses where their children play. Here are links to the full text or abstracts of the studies: Are my children at risk if I own a gun?
This is a controversial subject. Many people feel safer when they have a gun at hand. However, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP)* has reviewed the current medical research on the subject and concluded that if you have children, it is safer not to have a gun in your home (see the AAP policy statement for more details).

What if I've taught my kids not to touch a gun if they find one?
A number of studies [9], [10], [11], [12], suggest that even kids who are trained not to touch guns can't resist, and that parents have unrealistic expectations about their kids' behavior around guns. That's why parents are encouraged to keep guns unloaded and locked separately from ammunition , and to ask about guns at the houses where their children play. Here are links to the full text or abstracts of the studies: http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/guns.htm

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/guns.htm

I so hope this awful situation will not last long. The following may not be valid, but I have read that wasp spray is a great deterrent. It hits the target from a greater distance. Aim for the face. It may give you time to get away.
You have gotten some great advice here. Best of luck to you, polly!

Just so you know, tasers can stop people up to 15 ft away. Not as far away as a gun, and you can't fire a warning shot, but the potential for disaster is much reduced.

polly, I hope you've been in contact with the police already -- if the friend is a recognized gang member, the police will want to be tracking him anyway.

And I second Shannon's advice about getting neighbors involved -- it's a kindness to them, not 'dragging them down into it too' because they could as easily be at risk as you are, and not know it.

I also hope, and this is serious, that you all are getting out and doing enjoyable, stress-relieving things these past days/weeks as well. I get stressed just reading your posts so I can only imagine what it feels like in your real house right now...you're on defensive alert and you deserve to keep having your life be *your* life, just defense against someone else's. (((polly and family)))

Emotions are hard to tell on a computer but wanted to say I'm saying this without any snark.

We could go back on forth on the gun topic but I know plenty of other families that feel the same way and it's never been a problem. It's important to feel comfortable with a gun. If Polly's not then there are other ways to protect yourself. The alarm system they're installing is great. Get a taser and some pepper spray.

Hopefully this won't last much longer and you'll have some peace, Polly.

This young man needs help. It amazes me how far we (humans in general, not specifically anyone here) will go to save an animal but immediately go for a gun when it's another human being obviously in pain.

Even if this young man is into drugs, it's still highly doubtful he would rob his next door neighbor. That would be way too obvious. I have a friend whose (adopted) teen son is currently in jail because of meth and robbing houses. He never robbed in his own neighborhood. It was always across town.

Luckily this young man is receiving help, FINALLY, and is doing great in court ordered rehab. My heart breaks for you, his mother AND this kid. I wish your family the best of luck. I'd call law enforcement very single time there was an incident. I'd also ask for advice from them before he comes home.

So many adoptive families go through this hell. These kids are often damaged through no fault of their own. My heart aches when I read their stories and this one is so similar.

Wow, golddust...I'm sad to read that it's so common. I have to admit, when I read "Russian" the first thing I thought of was the mom who tried to send the kid back, as well as the horror stories on 60 minutes etc. years and years ago. Do you mean that *all* adopted kids are at risk for this or that it's more restricted to kids from Russia, specifically? I know a Russian woman who married a US man (yes, they met *that* way) and in addition to having his children, she successfully brought over her half-brother, who had lived his first *10* years in an orphanage. It's been quite difficult with him but I think the family connection has made it far easier for him than it would have been with complete strangers.

Thanks Flyleft for the info about the taser - I didn't know that.

And thanks Shee - for understanding - I was afraid I'd come across as a gun toting redneck! LOL It IS a personal choice, but I'm comfortable with ours. There are classes and firing ranges, and anyone who ones a gun should take advantage of that.

tina

"Take photos of yourself wearing your jewelery -- show your rings ON your hands -- or your earrings ON your ears. Most important! "

Good advice! I've only photographed mine in trays, and have wondered how/if an insurance company would know they were really mine. Time for a new photo spread! ;-)

HIghly recommend wasp spray (even over pepper spray). Its good from 30 feet and requires a trip to the ER for antidote.

The thing about guns is yes, they can protect you. And the odds of a tragic mistake are probably in your favor, which is why so many people think it's OK to have one. But, still, a hell of a lot of little kids get killed accidentally by guns in their own homes. Three thousand of them every year, nine kids every day. Way too risky in my opinion.

Keep calling the police.

I'm not trying to start anything -- I'm not even a gun owner -- but that 9-little-kids-a-day stat is misleading. This is cut and pasted from, yes, a pro-gun site, but I think it explains things in better detail. I just get irritated when facts that aren't facts become "facts" through repetition.

I agree that having a gun in the home can increase the danger of it being used ... but people can make their own decisions. Just make them with the right info. :-)

------------------

...But Lott believes the unbalanced media coverage contributes to public acceptance of the false statistic created by anti-gun groups that "nine children are killed by guns every day."

***According to data in the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports, achieving the "nine children a day" number would require including "children" as old as 24 years of age, depending on the year chosen for analysis. More than 50 percent of that nine per day are young adults who successfully attempt suicide.

Of the remaining shooting victims 17 to 24 years of age, 70 percent were actively involved in criminal activity at the time of their deaths.****

The rate of true "children" dying from accidental gun deaths in law-abiding homes is "essentially zero," Lott argued, when only accidental shootings by and of children under 10 years of age are considered.

"You're talking about something that's akin to children in those homes dying from lightning strikes," Lott explained. "To the extent to which these rare [accidental shootings of children] occur, they overwhelmingly take place in... households where someone with a criminal record, an adult, is accidentally firing the gun."

Statistics Lott gathered from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on the causes of accidental deaths in children less than 10 years of age in 1999 (the latest year for which data were available when the book was being written) support his contention:

* Motor vehicle crashes -- 1260
* Accidental residential fires -- 484
* Pedestrians killed by vehicles -- 370
* Drowning in bathtubs -- 93
* Bicycle accidents -- 81
* Accidental discharge of a firearm -- 31
* Accidental discharge of a firearm by a child under 10 years of age -- 6

Looking at the data from 1995 through 1999, Lott discovered only five to nine cases per year in which a child shot him or herself or another child.

"Whether it's five or nine or six or 31, obviously it would be far better if it were zero, but I think some perspective is needed here," he argued. "You have to consider that there are some 90 million Americans who own guns, that you're talking about 40 million kids in this age group.

Here is a link that might be useful: media bias against guns

When I cited the study in my first post above, I provided the link; I should have reposted the link in my second reference to it. My numbers came from the statistics of a study conducted by the University of Michigan Health System.

Yes, statistics have a way of being interpreted by the interpreter.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/guns.htm

Yes, Fly, it is way too common. There are more children in foster care than ever before. These kids get tossed around from over crowded homes to more over crowded homes. There aren't enough care homes.

Derek was 20 months old and we were his 7th home. He was born addicted to meth, sent home with his birthparents where he was neglected and abused. An annon. babysitter turned him over to a hospital emergency room when he was 6 weeks old. He had strangulation marks on his neck, he weighed less than he had at birth and the wrinkles of his skin was infected from filth. Then he was on to a series of foster homes, each one filled over capacity. By the time he came to us, he didn't care who he was with - me or the lady in aisle 5 at the grocery store. His trust and anger issues were immense. Damage at such a young age changes the way the brain forms. Me? Whenever I see a pro-life sticker these days, I ask them how many children they have adopted. Blunt? To be sure but we can't just keep bringing babies into the world without a way to protect and care for them.

This is the state of our children in America. They fill our prisons and my heart weeps for each and every one of the disposable kids. Of course I love animals but we need to take care of the children too. They fill our prisons.

Don't even get me started because the lump forms in my throat and then I can't stop talking.

As for guns, my father was an avid hunter who hunted for most of our food. I own a Colt 45 I inherited from him. I keep it locked up at all times and own not a single bullet. I keep meaning to sell it as I have no business with it at all, small as it is. (It was my dad's rattlesnake gun.)

OK so it has been really quiet over there now that he is in county jail. DH and I are still arguing about the gun. I DON"T want it, he disagrees. Seventeen years ago DH and I were victims of a violent crime, we were helpless and defenseless, I think it has a lot to do with it. We never really spoke about the incident again, and to be quite honest, I don't even remember a lot of the details of what happened, I think I blocked it out of my mind.
Alarm guy is coming Monday. Roselver, we have a private person installing, and it will be linked directly to the police dept. for a $100/yr. fee. We pay for the installation.
I don't know my neighbor that well. She is a single mom, I don't know if she has any family. I have casually spoken to her only a handful of times since moving here 3 years ago. I feel really bad for her, can't imagine what she must be going through. But she was in serious denial for a long time. Several other neighbors who know her better than I, warned her about what was going on, and even told her they've seen her son stumbling around strung out on drugs. She always has an excuse for the behavior or the crowds. Last summer when he was in jail, and we all knew because it was in the local paper, she told us all he was away in Arizona at a bible retreat at a barbecue. Not sure if she's embarrassed or in denial. I think denial, perhaps it would not have elevated to this point.
My entire neighborhood has been concerned about this since he started showing signs of trouble. They tell me a lot of this started just prior to us moving in. Many of us have called the non-emergent police number when the crowds in the yard have gotten out of hand, or other stuff is going on over there.
I'm hoping with the previous arrest record, he will be put away this time. I feel bad for him, but I don't really need gang warfare going on right next door. DH and I bought this home because it is a lovely community with a great school system, and close to NYC where he works. We pay A LOT in property taxes to live here, and both have to work full time to afford it, and what do we get? This cr*p next door.

You're my hero Golddust ;-)

Sherrmann: "But, still, a hell of a lot of little kids get killed accidentally by guns in their own homes. Three thousand of them every year, nine kids every day."

The way you posted it implied that 3,000 little kids are killed accidentally by guns in their own homes every year. That is not so. (I mean, think about that. It's huge.) Your link says

****# The 3,385 firearms-related deaths for age group 0-19 years breaks down to:
* 214 unintentional
* 1,078 suicides
* 1,990 homicides
* 83 for which the intent could not be determined
* 20 due to legal intervention

# Of the total firearms-related deaths:

* 73 were of children under five years old
* 416 were children 5-14 years old
* 2,896 were 15-19 years old ****

Now, yes, that is still too many. But it appears that the closer number is 300 accidental deaths a year, not 3,000. And again, I agree that for us, the risk is not worth it, and we don't own a gun. I've never even touched a gun. I also think many people might have good reasons for needing or wanting one.

Another "no" vote on the gun. My feelings about the right to buy and own a handgun are in no way politically influenced as I believe everyone should retain their rights in that regard. If you and your DH were going to buy a gun, be trained in the use of firearms, practice at the range, etc., AND did not have children in the home, I may have a different opinion. But you have children. Your children have friends who visit your home?

One of the first questions I asked a parent of a potential playdate when my DD started having them was "do you keep a gun/guns in your home". If the reply was yes, DD did not play in that home. That friend was welcome to come and play in ours. DD played at only one home where there was a gun present, dad is a State Trooper and also a very close friend. Back when we were raising DD, all of our close friends were very "PC" about the gun in the home with children around thing. To some it may seem an odd question to ask, but as DD's friend base broadened beyond playing in homes of our closest of friends, it was much more odd not to ask.

I have also been a victim of violent crime. At that time DH wanted to purchase a gun for the home. I was adamant that I did not want a gun in my home so long as we had children around. I did not know for sure that I could shoot to kill someone, and that is an absolute necessity before you have any business keeping a gun. If you hesitate for one nanosecond, you're done and the criminal has your gun.

We too had a private alarm system installed. I really don't think all of the tv commercial-type systems offering free installation with agreement to pay the central station servicing for a certain period of time are of the same caliber of those systems that you pay for the installation separate and apart from the central monitoring. My alarm system is very different from those advertised on tv. However, any alarm/security system is better than no monitoring system at all.

I would suggest installing a security camera at both back and front entrances of your home as well. It won't be a bad thing for this gang of kids to see you having the installation.

I hope this situation gets better. It sounds as though this kid has actually been violent with his mother, which is not uncommon in the category of drug addicted teens. It doesn't sound as if he has had a direct conflict (face to face) with you, although urinating on your lawn is disgusting.

BTW, where we live, that particular act, if caught, can be charged in the same manner as a sexual offense. In other words, not charged as pubic urination but rather charged with exposure or the formal equivilent thereof. Lowest level, I believe but will check with a friend who is a police officer. If convicted, the person is still put on the sexual offender lists, picture distributed, etc. I'm not saying you could "catch" this as it would be very hard to get the PD to your home while he or his friends are "in the act" and taking a picture is just putting yourself in jeopardy of this kid starting to act out on your family.

I would definitely talk to the police. You along with your DH should make a visit to the department asap. As ttodd suggests, document every single event no matter how insignificant you may feel it may be. Engage your neighbors. You aren't bringing them down, as another posted, you are doing them a favor giving them a head's up in order that their families are aware of this situation. It is not out of the question for one of these kids to wander a bit further past the immediate home next door if they are getting high on who knows what.

I don't think you or anyone here can really know what his drug of choice may be. Any habitual drug use could result in his need to do anything to support that habit. This is going to sound crazy, but I feel a sadness for this boy.

While I understand that this mother was beat up by her son, I am a mother. I can absolutely picture her taking him back into her home. She's may be in total denial, yes, but first and foremost, he is her child and she will never see him as anything but just that. While his behavior is unforgivable to someone on the outside looking in, his mother will probably always be inclined to protect him and/or help him. Although I've never had any personal experience with this particular issue, I have family, friends and general acquaintances who have gone through tough times with their kids (nothing this serious) but parents always tend to hold out hope that things can change. If only, etc. This I can understand.

Be safe!

I'm still on the fence about guns. Only because some parents aren't careful or responsible enough to have them in their homes. I love the idea about wasp spray. We rarely use our alarm when we are gone during the day, but, always turn it on at night. I have been known to occasionally leave a door unlocked at our house during the day, then, at night, I am looking in everywhere and in every closet to make sure no one is hiding anywhere! Never bothered me until the "JonBenet Ramsey incident" where the guy was probably hiding in the house before they got home. SHUDDER!!

flyleft, regarding "all adopted kids being at risk"-not true in most cases. My DS is adopted, brought him home from hospital when he was one day old, and he has been a joy! His birthmom was not addicted to anything, and was a college student. And, I know numerous adopted children, that are older and are the same. Yes, kids that are born with drug addicted moms are all going to have problems probably and be hard to deal with. But, the normal baby placed for adoption at a very early age has just a good a chance as a normal functioning baby being born to bio parents. Thank God our birthmom chose to have her baby, and bless us with our most precious 7 year old DS, who I am totally in love with! There truly isn't a day that goes by, that I don't think of his birthmom, and how unselfish she was to not abort him, and to give him to a family that desperately wanted him, and how blessed we are to have him in our lives.

golddust, I totally commend you on Derek and the great job you have done with him. Not many parents out there like you, and you have been such an inspiration!

Most burglaries are committed during the day, not at night. My friend just had her house broken in to while she was at work. Everyone I know who's been burglarized it occurred during the day.

In my job, I can potentially encounter angry, violent people, and definitely encounter dogs, cougars, bears and other wildlife. We are not allowed to even carry pepper spray! So we use wasp spray.

We recently had a safety training by the State Police and he told us about guns and using deadly force. Honesty, if your DH wants a gun, I suggest both of you talk to the police first. Get their take on the reality of having a gun and what it means to use it.

I grew up in a house with guns, but I won't allow my DH to have a working handgun in our house. We have rifles; he's used them for hunting, but no way on a handgun. And I know for a fact that I could not physically use one to shoot someone even under the best of circumstances...can you? Something to think about.

Polly, I want to give you one piece of advice..

If you have any medications that a teen would be interested in, make sure they are not in usual places a person would keep medication. I've heard of stories where they will walk right in the front door while someone is home; grab medication or money laying around & walk right out without being seen.

Golddust..you are my hero, too! Stories like your Derek's really make me wish there were a fail-safe way to require a license to have a child. I also find myself wanting to demand mandatory sterilization for anyone who commits heinous acts on innocent children. Just wishful thinking for a perfect world, not a political stand. I do get all of the ramifications of the former.

olliesmom, thanks for sharing your experience. I'm so glad to hear adoption stories that work out as well as yours has. I also appreciate golddust's question to people who are against women's rights over their own bodies -- it's all such a tough area, full of private pain and dilemma. And I also third the admiration for golddust (for you, golddust if you're reading :)), wrt how you handled raising Derek. I'm not feeling well today or I would try to express it more clearly; words are failing right now to express my thanks.

polly, to return to your topic, I am *very* glad to read that the neighbors knew about it already and are being aggressively active about the situation, since the mom won't/can't be...although I do wonder, since the issues started before you moved in, why did the POs of your house say they were selling?...

We have two adopted kids. I'm not talking about babies adopted at one day (like our Max). I'm talking about older children adoptive placements. I'd bet my eye teeth the neighbor boy wasn't adopted at one day old.

The adoption agency I served on is devoted to finding permanent homes for children who need them, verses finding babies for childless couples. This segment of the population is the at risk kids, whether they come from America or Russia or elsewhere. Adopted children (older placements) are far more at risk to be abused because they can be very difficult to imprint, their behaviors can be bizarre and since the damage likely happened before cognitive memory, it's difficult to treat because one can't go back and process it. Pre cognitive damage forms the brain.

When a baby is hungry or wet, it cries. When their caregiver attends to their basic needs, that baby is learning trust from a very early age. When basic needs re not met, the brain doesn't learn to trust and the brain forms around the notion of pure survival. Babies who are not consoled learn rage and lack of trust. It is difficult (but possible) to teach them to trust because they often feel unworthy of love and set about proving they are not lovable and society picks up the tab.

I wish there were more resources for very early intervention. Drug addicts, etc. have babies every single day and hospitals and social services turn a blind eye because there may be no option available to keep the baby safe. When the need becomes an emergency and the children are removed from the home, it's often too late because significant damage has been done.

Derek was incubated in a meth bath. When he cried from withdrawals, his parents thought he didn't like them, so they shut the door to his room and continued to party. That kid required street parenting. I drew the line at normal and didn't let him cross. I'd find him at the top of an 80 foot tree but he didn't trust the ropes on a swing not to break. If he was in charge, he was OK (in his mind).

It's hard to remain pro-life when we have so many children with significant needs that we aren't meeting already. In my ideal world, every parent who tests positive for drugs would not be able to take their newborns home. That wouldn't solve all the problems but it's a smart start. The problem is, there is nowhere to put them.

Russia is infamous for kids with both fetal alcohol syndrom and attachment disorders within adoption circles. When that family sent their child back to Russia alone I was not surprised, yet the real problem was overlooked when everyone (media) pointed fingers at the parents who said they were afraid of him. There is no effective support systems in place for dealing with the significant needs of some of these kids, even with domestic adoptions. International adoptions are way worse. My heart broke for everyone involved in that case.

We need to do better by our children and every single parent who slaps a pro-life bumper sticker on their car and sits in judgement should step up to adopt a child who needs a home because someone chose to have the baby instead of terminate the pregnancy when they were unprepared to parent. Put their money where their mouth is, so to speak.

Guess I sound pretty opinionated, huh?

Bravo Golddust. Amazingly well spoken.

I think what you've described goes a long way to explaining my SS. His mother never held him or tended to him and when DH and I came into his life full time when he was 4 he was quite like a feral child! No one believed me and they thought I was just being an evil stepmother but he grew up just as you've described, and we're heartbroken over him.

His mother tried to say it was my DHs fault the kid had problems but DH never saw his son till he was almost 14 mos old, then he only lived with the boys mom for less than a year. SHE is a person who should never have been allowed to have a child, much less 4 of them (only 1 by my DH).

But Gold, many children born to parents, even coming from good families still turn to drugs for one reason or another.

I have a friend who's a counselor and she told me at this age (teens to early 20's) who turn to drugs could very well be bipolar. Drugs make bipolar children feel normal.

Drug use hits all families.

But I agree with the other's, you're my hero too. I can tell you really care about youngsters and would never give up on them. I'd rather see that boy get professional help and drug rehab instead of locking him up. Because if they lock him up and don't help him, he'll get out and be "our" neighbor one day.

Since drugs (especially meth) is so prevelant these days I'd love to see FREE state run rehabs.

I know we are sort of getting off topic here but I just wanted to say thanks to golddust too. It is wonderful that you share your experiences with us. DH and I are considering adoption and I appreciate hearing your thoughts.

Fly- PO's of my house were in their 90s and lived in the house for 56 years. One went to heaven, the other into a home, she has since joined her husband. We bought the house from their adult children. I doubt they knew anything about it since the house was empty for 2 years before we bought it.

Goldust, I truly believe my neighbor is kind hearted, I just think she is in over her head with him. I can't speculate about what is going on between them, but if he is capable of doing that to the only person who has ever loved him, what would he do to a stranger, or a neighbors child? If he is involved with gangs, they are capable of anything. Gang initiations are scary. Who knows, they could be put up to killing a child for no other reason but to see if they are up to it. My kids are in the yard all the time. What if one of his friends comes by and they are high and are playing with a gun and accidentally shoots into my yard? Do you all see why I'm freaked out? Yes I feel terrible this is happening to her, but I have to keep my family safe first. I am not going to save him, his own mother can't at this point. I don't know what she did after he was arrested last summer, but it has obviously escalated and he didn't get the help he needs. I applaud you for all you've done with your son, but my neighbor didn't do that, and look what happened.

Polly, I understand. I really do. Of course you must keep your family safe. I suggested you go to your appropriate law enforcement agency, tell them what is happening, explain your deep concerns and ask them for advice. Ask them if getting a gun is a good idea, etc. These people are experts on deviant personalities.

I am sorry if you thought my tyrant was asking you to save him. I can't judge this mom because I don't know what all she has done toward getting her son help. I do know the help available is often inadequate. The judicial system is certainly a good place to start and I hope you pay them a visit soon.

Have you seen guns over there? Do you know for a fact they have guns? Either way, TALK to your local law enforcement, STAT!! Tell THEM you are afraid they are going to shoot your kids. Your law enforcement agency is on your salary and a much better resource than anyone I can think of.

Roselvr- thanks, I never thought about meds. I don't really have much in the house anyway. Just migraine medication, and OTC's. Our front door is always locked. We rarely use it. We always use the back door b/c we park in our driveway. Our garage is detached and set back 150 feet from the street. There is nothing of any real value in the garage, unless if someone wants our lawn equipment, or bicycles. I don't always keep my back door locked, when I am home it's usually open so my kids can go in and out. (It is always locked when we aren't home) I keep the dog outside with them, the yard is completely fenced in. She is an old dog, and wouldn't hurt a fly, but she barks at EVERYTHING. My kids don't go in the front yard without me. They are scared of strangers. If he comes home from county jail, I don't know if I'll let them be outside without me anymore. Stinks to be a prisoner in your own home, don't you all agree?

No I have never seen guns there. But I'm pretty sure most gang members carry them. Our local police know all about the situation. We found out this all happened through another neighbor who is a cop in town. Another neighbor around the corner is a corrections officer, and he processed him last summer, and another one of my neighbors is a prosecutor for the county. This incident wasn't in the paper. They also didn't catch the gang member friend who helped him beat his mother. He has been on the radar with the cops since he was released. I am not sure about what will happen next. The neighbors who know stuff have been very hesitant to share information. DH got most of it all first hand from one of them, after he inquired that he heard "G" next door was in jail again. I'm not sure how much we are supposed to know. Can I just go down to the station and find out from the police what's going on w/ him? Or do they have to keep it under wraps? I work in medicine, we can't discuss anything with anyone because of privacy laws.

sorry but another hijack: "We need to do better by our children and every single parent who slaps a pro-life bumper sticker on their car and sits in judgement should step up to adopt a child who needs a home because someone chose to have the baby instead of terminate the pregnancy when they were unprepared to parent. Put their money where their mouth is, so to speak."

golddust - I think your written words at least once a day and at times speak them aloud whilst driving behind a car with that particular bumper sticker!

polly - do you live in an area known for regular gang activity or is this an isolated situation in an otherwise safe neighborhood?

Golddust, I don't think the kind of people you are talking about would have an abortion anyway. Believe me, I've got distant cousins like that, and they keep and want them for welfare. I don't think pro-choice or pro-life even enters their minds, KWIM? I tried to adopt one of my distant cousins baby, not even drug addicted, and they wanted him, and, and it sickens me to hear how he has turned out over the years, just like their other kids, just because of their environment. I really do appreciate people like you who can and will take on the challenge of these kids. I know there aren't enough families to do that. I don't know what the answer is for those poor babies.

oakley, you are right, drug use hits all kinds of families. I am a Psychology major and have done quite a bit of Drug and Alcohol reading and classes, and it has sure opened my eyes. It's not that I feel sorry for them, but, the drug/alcohol addicted person really cannot stop, until they either die, or have hit bottom, in most cases. So, once they do become addicted, what do we do with them? In Oklahoma, they have forced-placed rehab, or you go to prison. Of course, most choose to go to rehab, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Especially those that live in the neighborhoods they have to go back into. Anyway...

polly, I think what scares me most about your neighbors, is the inner city gang member(s). Why do they still come over to the house if the boy is gone, or did I read that wrong?

Polly, knowing that the cops are aware of the situation is far different than asking for formal advice from the agency. Ask them about your DH's idea of getting a gun. Ask them how to keep your kids safe while playing in their yard, knowing what they know about your neighbor. Ask them if they think there are guns involved. Ask the person in charge at the desk, not your neighborhood cop. Knowledge is power.

Ironically, intimate relationships are much harder for these kids as they go about proving how unlovable they are. My DS broke two of my ribs but he has NEVER harmed anyone else. That includes animals. Just saying that I am not convinced he is a danger to EVERYONE because of what he did to the one person who loves him. Acting out on the person who loves him the most can be par for the course with these kids. BUT I am not saying he isn't either. Time to seek counsel from the law enforcement agency in charge of your area.

Oakley, yes. Drugs certainly work their way into very good families. There is an epidemic of drug use these days. I am in no way suggesting that only adopted children are at risk for drug abuse. You will not see any blanket statements regarding this from me. I am only addressing this issue because being adopted from Russia was a red light for me.

Arrest records are public record so you have the right to know the circumstances and the result. So if he's on probation, you can learn the terms and learn who his PO is. Only info in ongoing investigations is not available.

Also talk to LE about gangs. If there is known gang activity in your area, it's likely there is a police unit that can educate you and/or be interested in knowing what is going on.

Unfortunately where I live gangs are on the rise but for the most part they do not target 'innocents' in initiations or shootings. I'd be more worried about break-ins or, if there are guns involved, random bullets from shootings. Regardless, I'd always keep all doors locked at all times, don't let the kids out back unsupervised, and be prepared for theft of anything, especially if they're tweakers (meth heads). We lived in a rough area fir a few years and had to deal with tweakers and gangbangers in our neighborhood so we learned fast!

As someone already said, knowledge is power. The more you learn what your local LE knows, the better off you'll be.

Our town is a really nice suburb of NYC. It is not known for gang activity, however, inner city gangs have been spreading to the suburbs. Not long ago there was a huge gang bust in our town, they were running a meth lab in a house on a quiet street. Most members of the community were shocked to hear of it.
It never dawned on me in the 3 years we've been there "G" could be getting involved with a gang. I just thought he was a troubled kid, and his friends were a nuisance. I have seen the friends in the yard without him there. I have called the cops when I see them there, just because they don't belong there, or I smell weed. I doubt the mother knows what goes on there while she's at work, and her yard is only visible to my house, no other neighbors can really see into it. It has been pretty quiet there the entire month of June though. Supposedly the incident happened early June. I googled it to see if I could find out any details. Just found out he was arrested recently for marijuana possession and underage drinking.
All I know is the kid he was with when the incident occurred was supposedly in a gang. I am not comfortable with this at all. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions, but I'm worried. Also last month one of his friends threw trash or something out of their car, another neighbor I do not really know confronted them, and they threatened him, told him to watch his back. Wow, if I threw garbage out of a car as a teen and a neighbor saw, I think I'd pick it up and say sorry- where in the world did that come from? "G" 's mother called the neighbor to apologize, and said she had a talk with him, it wouldn't happen again. I've never confronted any of them myself. DH did with the urinating incident, but that was over a year ago.
I think tomorrow I will head over to the local police station and find out what is going on, where he is and what to do if I see the crowds there again.

Thank you all so much for your advice. I really appreciate all of you taking the time to write and give me such great suggestions. Because of you, I was able to put my foot down w/ DH about the gun. A part of me almost caved, b/c I'm scared, but I really don't think that's the solution, and more of a danger to my own children.

This discussion reminds me of a situation we were in years ago. Our next door neighbors adopted a one year old boy, "N", from a Russian orphanage. We were excited at first, since we had a DS the same age, but it was soon clear that something wasn't right. As a toddler, "N" was filled with rage and was often violent. "N" had many of the facial characteristics of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome although his parents insisted that he didn't have it. When you looked into his eyes, you saw (what most described as) "evil"; he seemed to have no soul. To make matters worse, "N"'s mother was bi-polar and didn't like to take her meds so she was frequently manic and completely out of control. "N"'s father was a very nice guy who was completely overwhelmed by the situation to the extent that he did nothing to control either one of them.

Grown men in the neighborhood were afraid of "N" and so were we. We stopped letting our kids play outside unattended (in addition to our DS, we had two older kids and, by then, a baby) because I feared for their safety. One day, I was outside with my kids when I had to use the bathroom. Since they were having fun and I didn't see "N" anywhere, I left the oldest in charge and ran inside for a couple of minutes. I emerged to the sound of my DD screaming something about "N", a pitchfork, a stabbing. My heart sank because "N" hated my baby (who was now a two year old) and I assumed that "N" was stabbing him. I was relieved to find that "N" was stabbing a shrub and not my DS but horrified to find that he was stabbing with such anger and force that he had, in the span of minutes, reduced my three foot shrub to two small sticks; if there had been scary music, it could have been a scene out of a horror film. The pitchfork was given to "N" by his mother as a gift for his fifth birthday.

We put our house on the market and moved (a few miles away) three months later. It was the best thing we ever did. The following spring, we heard from a friend that "N" cut off her son's finger with an axe. The axe was given to "N" by his mother for his sixth birthday. I have no doubt that my children would have been harmed by that axe if we had stayed.

I hope that you can find a safe solution, Polly. I'll be thinking of you.

Oh wow, I thought the pitchfork at 5 was odd but who gives an AXE to a 6 year old for their birthday?! It's good your family moved, Flowers.

Good grief. I shudder to think of what he received for his 7th birthday.

Flowers, I got chills reading what you wrote. I am SO glad you moved.

Polly, have you thought about moving? I know that's a drastic step but if someone doesn't intervene with the boy you shouldn't have to live your life in fear.

What makes it worse is teens that age think they're invincible, and it's really hard getting through to them.

A pitchfork and an axe???? I would move too.

Oakley- we moved here 3 years ago, the house was a total fixer upper, and we've done so much and we did it all ourselves. I don't want to live my life in fear. I plan on going down to the police station to find out what is going on, but I don't want to have my 3 kids with me. They already know if they see anyone in that yard to come inside, I don't want them terrified. DH and I have discussed completely moving out of NJ, so if we did move it would be a big move, not sure if I want to do that. And the market is not the greatest, I doubt we would be able to recoup what we've put into the house, and I don't have much in savings for a down payment on something else, so it's really not an option. I am hoping this time he is incarcerated. How many times can he get off?

Sadly, he can probably get off more easily than any of us would like to think.

I don't know, but the realist in me says find a way to move. You can't depend on the neighbor's being incarcerated to go forward with a normal life. It sounds like your neighbor's "crew" still assembles despite his absence. If he and his friends disappear, is there potential for a replacement problem group taking up "residence" in your immediate vicinity. Could you have friends over for an impromptu summer bbq? It seems as though you can't plan anything outdoors so long as your neighbor's son & his friends are around. I can see this getting worse first before/rather than better.

Things are definitely not in your favor with regard to the current real estate market, or for that matter, the economy in general. However, when it gets to the point that your kids can't safely go outside to play on a nice day, and you are living in daily fear, is it really worth your sanity and that of everyone in your family?

I am a fighter as well as a total optimist. Before reading about your situation, I would have adamantly defended my right to live in my home. I would not allow the behavior of another make me move from a home I created. However, under your circumstance, I would definitely consider all options, moving being one of them. Is there a reasonable possibility that your neighborhood will get progressively worse, or is this an isolated thing within a 10 block radius of your home? If I were to take a walk in your neighborhood, would the gang presence be obvious to me? What is the the town like overall? It may be a strategic move to get out of this neighborhood now before it becomes reputed for its higher potential for crime?

Also, I can't remember if you mentioned having any pets. If you do, they need protection from this situation as well.

I wish I felt more optimistic about this getting better for your family. You and your DH are the only two people who can gauge what your home life will be going forward if you do stay in your current home. Also, I don't know the ages of your children and how "at risk" they are being next door to this kid and his friends.

There are jerks everywhere. I wouldn't move - I'd keep calling the cops. Who knows what they'll find in a new neighborhood? There are no guarantees that only "good" people live in any neighborhood.

Sherry

Gosh how awful, you work, get married, have children, buy a house, it's your haven and you love it. Than an A hole like that moves in and takes over your darn life over.

I don't even know what I would do. I guess it would depend on the severity of the situation and how much I was willing to take. Murder comes to mind, but you can't do that.

I don't have a gun or children and there is no crime in my town. But, I think I would consider one and teach my children to respect it and fear it and keep away from it.

Guns scare the life out of me, but I don't know how to use one and again I don't have children, so.

I know you want to just kill that little creep next door, what a nightmare. It honestly sounds like a Lifetime Movie, really scary.

Keep us posted on what you do.

.....Jane

Well, he's still in jail and it's been quiet over there. Moving is out of the question. I love my town, there is a very low crime rate here, having this idiot next door is just random bad luck. We have an excellent school system, and all our other neighbors are fabulous. One of my neighbors is a real estate agent, the latest rumor is that she might be looking to sell. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

I came across this thread while searching for something else. I didn't take time to read it all since I really should be getting something done to prepare for our daughter's visit but had to take the time to tell you our story...
Back in the early seventies a young couple moved into the house across the street from us. They had a small child. All was wonderful for a short time. Soon we noticed cars coming and going with one to full capacity stopping in for a very short amount of time. My Mom suspected drugs, though found it hard to believe at first since this was a very sweet young couple. When the wife and child left suddenly, my Mom was sure it was drugs that drove her away. She called the police, this was in a large mid-west city, and they gave her the option of calling them each time or writing down license plate numbers. They also added that they'd not always have a cruiser available to get there in time to check the activity.
Mom and I would run out and write down the plate numbers while the perps were in the house. We did this for a couple weeks and turned the list over the police. This was the info they needed because there were a number of plate numbers that belonged to known drug dealers and buyers. They let us know there would be a big bust soon and to stay in our homes as soon as we noticed anything happening. The bust happened, the house was soon sold and we lived happily ever after.
Call your local police and ask if writing down plate numbers would be of help to them. Of course with the times as they are now, I'd be very careful about taking the numbers down so as not to be seen. Get binoculars, or use your zoom on your camera to take photos that can be enlarged digitally to record the numbers. In fact it might be a good idea to take photos/videos of the activity too.

I have a son (12) adopted from Russia. I just want to chime in that not all the kids are alcohol-affected, violent, or sociopaths. Does my son suffer any ill effects from his 2 1/2 year stint in an orphanage? Sure, but nothing that would affect anyone but himself (sensory integration issues due to lack of stimulation). He's very intellligent and a fantastic athlete.

My neighbor's biological child - age 13 - has been a horrow show since toddlerhood. Pathological liar, aggressive to other kids when he thinks no one is looking, sexual acting out on little kids. He is currently in residential placement!

Thanks for chiming in here to tell us about your successful adoption. Of course, not ALL Russian adoptions fit the sad story I portrayed.

The point of my post was not meant to be a bash on children adopted from Russia. I'm sorry if you took it that way rucnmom. The reason I mentioned it was because she is a single mom, with no support system or Dad in the picture. I really was just looking for advice. I'm sure you would be worried for your 12 year old son, if you had my neighbor next door to you.

Here's a quick update, he is still in county jail. His mom may lose her house because she used it as collateral to post bail for him, last year, and now he has violated his parole. I am not sure of all the details because I am getting this from a neighbor. The local police are going to notify us when and if he returns home. I was unable to go down there, but DH did and spoke with them.