Brendon, I understand the concept, and if it were really the case that people were saying that fire suppression (whistling) was the primary trigger for the initiation of bark beetle outbreaks (tree death), then you might have a point. But no one says that, or at least it's not something that I've ever heard said or seen published among bark beetle specialists. And for that matter, the paper doesn't even report on whether there's a difference between the year without whistling (pre-fire-suppression) and the next. Based on their data sources, I doubt they had the statistical power to prove the negative. Drought stress is commonly considered to be a main trigger for regional conifer bark beetle outbreaks. But even when regional outbreaks are occurring, the susceptibility of a given stand to infestation is affected by that stand's structure and composition. Fire history is a factor that affects stand structure and composition. These points are well-supported in the literature for many systems. Back to your analogy, the idea that fire suppression could affect bark beetle susceptibility is not nearly as unlikely as the idea that whistling could affect tree death. There is a mechanistic connection. Also, these associations they're reporting are significant, but not absolute. For example, they find that 24% of the time that there was an AMO of at least 1.6, there was an outbreak in the study areas. Otherwise, when the AMO was This post was edited by saccharum on Wed, Oct 16, 13 at 23:50

Yes Marshall, I agree that the numbers are skewed because of birthrates and people alive. But, it needs to be pointed out that: a) Here and now, religious conflict is still a problem, but not on the order that WW1 and WW2 were. Those of us who support middle east involvement want to keep it that way by stopping radicals. Which, as of right now, is a small minority of Muslims. I do think we all can coexist, once terrorists are removed, and human rights are agreed upon throughout the Muslim world. b) End time theology and it's impact on this president is very, very overstated. The fact is, Afghanistan is a fledgling democracy. There is some hope new Palestinian leadership will work for peace, Khadafi is cooperating. And Iraq is going to have a historic election. I believe that he is trying to work for peace. Someone trying to bring on Armegeddon should be pretty depressed right now. c) If he were trying to bring on Armeggedon, 1 nuke into China or Russia would do it. Why mess around? It could be made to look like we were provoked... d) The problems that are really formenting, are split between countries influenced by Muslim radicals ( Iran, Syria) and secular communism (North Korea, Russian reentrenchement, the growing sphere of China's hedgemony, and the growing influence of South American socailism). Hopefully, competition in the world marketplace and diplomacy, will help quell these problems. e) I never expect a totally peaceful world. Quite simply, humans are too selfish and judgemental to get past rivalries for goods, services, land, love, and espousing ultimate "truth". Even among democracies, the economic wars rage - "in this corner the US, and in this corner, the EU..." The best we can hope for is limited conflicts, and the elimination of hot spots so that the "big bang" doesn't happen. Heck, we argue here with intensity. YOU WILL AGREE WITH ME OR I'LL.... Anyway, end time theology and those who want to bring it on should be easy to keep in check. But if we are still stupid enough to follow a David Koresh/Hitler into oblivion... And in this instance, talking broadly about movements (end time theology, communism, democracy, etc.) in the context of whether there is going to be an environment to sustain or not, hopefully isn't over the line. Just in case, however, this is my last post on this subject... be kind Spike, just warn me, don't hurt me, pleeease...

Dragon, there are several statements in your post that I take issue with. First Ding Xinoping has simply toned down the anti capitalist rhetoric and suggested a few token human rights changes.Unions are not permitted, news is rigidly censored, anyone complaining about working conditions gets a quick trip to a reeducation work camp. Chairman Mao is still regarded as a God like figure in China, his philosophy is widley taught, required in all universities. If you go over a list of the governing body you will find that Maoist hold a large percetage of the high decision making positions and their agenda for Communist world domination has not changed, only toned down a bit. Next Chinese made electronic devices are not purchased because other nations are too lazy to produce them, they are purchased because of Chinese ultra cheap labor and a devalued currency system that allows production for a fraction of the cost else where. Copy right and patent laws are ignored, there is no pollution control, safety and working conditions rival 19th century sweat shops. To, put it simply no way can free independent labor in any western country compete with an endless supply of labor working under forced conditions for slave wages and an unrealistic devalued currency system. China has an endless supply of manpower and it is being used to build up the nations treasury. Huge amounts of foreign bonds and holding are being amassed. Human sweat, horibble working conditions, low wages and a devalued currency are being used to produce super cheap products, to dump on the world market and bring in cash for communist expansion.Tell 1800 workers from a South Carolina furniture plant who lost jobs when their company moved plant to China, that they were lazy and did not want to work. The company owner admitted plant was moved to China because even though their workers were effecient, loyal, the plant could not compete with cheap Chinese products being imported by competitors. Despite concessions by the union, maximum efficency from the work force, tax abatement from the local and state governments the company had to move to China or go broke. 1800 workers, many with years of loyal service were out of a job. Not because they were lazy, or put out an inferior product, or demand exhorbitant wages, but because they could not compete with products made jn plants where skilled craftsman are paid $60 per month.. The other statement I take issue with is one about illegal alien workers in the US. A great myth is being circulated about these people only taking jobs not wanted by any one else. Nothing is further from the truth. While some do work in low paying cleaning and agricltural jobs, many others are hired in skilled good paying crafts such as painting, roofing , carpentry and plumbing. They are hired in these jobs for one reason, greed. They can be paid less, paid in cash off the books, not carried on workman's compensation insurance policies. no retirement money need be contributed. OSHA and EPA safety regulations can be ignored, plus they are worked overtime and paid at the regular rate,or not at all. These workers can't complain to any one because they are illegal and fear deportation. I don't claim to have all the answers, however, we better wake up and do something, All is not sweetness and light where China s concerned, the Chinese have simply toned down their anti capitalist rhetoric, achieving Mao,s goal of communizing the world is still on the agenda. Just easier to do it economically than by force. I also agree no country is perfect, but some are much higher on the scale than others.

"I don't call 35% taxes 'subsidizing everyone else.' Back when taxes were 50%, maybe. But since SS taxes are only paid on the first 90k or so of income, the wealthiest people aren't paying nearly their fair share." I hear this statement and I read that by, an overwhelming majority, Americans think taxing all wage income (heck even all income) provides the best fix to Social Securitys troubles. Honestly, I feel threatened and a bit ticked off. I live in an area in which the median income is $90K. Now, that may sound like a lot of money to a lot of people but our cost of living is equally high. We can move to a cheaper area but our incomes and job possibilities will also take a hit. So, moving doesnt change our lives very much. When we talk about this fix, were not talking about Nardelli, Paris, Buffet, or Bill. Not really. Were talking about some level of the middle class. Thats where the real money comes from when we talk about solutions like these. And the politicians and government budgeters know it. So, basically, the bulk of the redistribution will come from upper middle income folk to lower middle income folk. The very poor and the very rich tend to feel the least impact of such political changes. So, I feel threatened and I feel like a chump. Im solidly upper middle income. No more, no less. I paid my way through school, Ive worked hard, I save 25% of my income annually to pay for my self-funded old age and if you think thats easy, youre wrong. I pay 46% of my income in federal, state, local, and property taxes. And when, I hear that everybody wants to boost that level to 50% or higher by taxing all of my income, I feel like a chump. I wont see any compensatory level of benefit back. This year, means-testing comes to Medicare. When Im eligible and living off my hard-won savings so that I COULD stay in this high-priced area and be with my family, my premiums will be much, much higher than the premiums of those who didnt wake up and smell the coffee in time. I see my equally middle class friends and neighbors living beyond their means for the joy of owning three flat screen TVs. And I feel like a chump. I love Social Security. My grandparents didnt die in poverty because of it. Their post-Depression meager savings, a lot of family help, and Social Security gave my grandma a decent old age. Im a fan. All wage earners pay in and everybody gets something out of it. Its a win/win. So be careful when you tell us middle class saver types that we need to pony up more/ be means tested out. Americans hate welfare programs and if you turn Social Security into one, a very good anti-poverty program may very well lose the political support of people like me.