Geothermal $6K per ton?
cs6000
15 years ago
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marknmt
15 years agocountryboymo
15 years agoRelated Discussions
Help - AC vs Heat Pump vs Geothermal in Oregon Log Home
Comments (6)Thanks Tigerdunes: Electricity use is as follows: First 1,000 kWh 6.778 â per kWh Over 1,000 kWh 7.500 â per kWh ( I use about 800 kwh without AC and 1300 Kwh with it) Propane: 2.69per gallon - usage in winter used to be approx 350-400 gallons per month! I agree that the mark ups for the Heat Pumps condensor are outrageous. The cheapest price I was quoted was $5310 for a Trane XB14 unit, or $5225 for RUUD. I started shopping in May, have had 4 contractors out here, and still see major issues with each contractor. The one I like the best is from Sky Heating, as he was the most thorough, and company got the best reviews. He had the lowest prices as well, but they are still about 3 times the wholesale cost. I have the money to pay for the more expensive systems, but I just can't find a good reason to do that. won't, on principle, as I feel they are purposefully marking them up. This kind of stuff happens to everyone, but seems to happen a bit more to single women ?!? (kind of a sexist comment, but I have noticed this to be true). Back to the subject at hand - I looked at QualitySmith.com for nationwide averages for installation on various Trane Heat Pumps - I compared it to the bids I received: Trane Installation costs (range nationwide) XR15:Install cost $4500-$10,000 (quote= $8100) XB14 Install cost = $3000-$7500 (qutoe was $5300) XB13 install cost =$2500-$6500 (quote was $6400) I noticed in another post that you were recommending a SEER 13 unit, but did not like the Trane XB13 (SEER 14-15) but not the Trane units. You specifically wrote that wrote that you would not get a Trane XB13. I was wondering if you liked any of the Trane models that I have listed? What Brands/models do you like that are SEER 13? Any suggestions for how to find a more competitive bid? I tried Bargaining with one contractor, and I could tell he was completely resistant to it- giving me less information each time I contacted him; strong arming me to come back and meet with me again, etc. Here are some other Brands I received bids for - they also seemed a bit high but are cheaper than others: : Carrier 25HBC5 Comfort - SEER 14.5 FOR $6289_ York YHJFLX series SEER 14.5 for $5869.00 RUUD 4 ton Achiever SEER 14.5 $5225 I would like to pay less than $5000 but that has not been possible. With 5000 Square foot home, and the logs not chinked, I don't envy the contractors for trying to decide what would work best. A two zone system is preferred in houses like this but the cost to retrofit is exorbitant. Desperately confused in Oregon! Thanks again...See MoreGeothermal Loop Control - Part II
Comments (17)This morning I caught the system just as it turned on (my ears are now trained to listen for the click of the tstat and the fan coming on.) This time, when the tstat started heat all by itself, the Aux Heat call did not come on. I have a feeling that anytime I try to force the heat on myself, the tstat is seeing a large enough delta between set and actual temp that it is kicking AH on. I will have to watch the operations over the next few days to see if it consistently works without AH. In the mean time, the breaker to the heater pack is off to avoid the toaster. I have decided to send an email to Honeywell tech support on the CPH setting for my tstat. Now that I understand what the CPH setting does, I need to know how the logic is implemented. For example, my tstat setting for Compressor Cycle Rate is set to 3. Does the tstat bleed these 3 cycles per hour (max) uniformly over an hour of time - or does it simply allow 3 on/off cycles in rapid succession, and then no more for the rest of the hour. If the allocation is uniform across an hour, then the Aux heat setting (which is currently 9 CPH) could be adjusted lower to keep Aux Heat from popping on so quickly - like when I increase the tstat setting by 2 degrees. Again - if it is a uniform distrubution of on/off cycles the tstat would permit Aux Heat to come on every 3 minutes with a 9 CPH setting and that is too frequent. So the CPH adjustment may in fact be part of the solution. I have also discovered a nagging issue with my second story heat pump. That unit is actually zoned - where 3 bedrooms each have their own tstat. My guess is that the CPH setting for each tstat is set to the recommended default (3 CPH) which means that there are actually a total of 9 CPH allowed (3 for each tstat). That explains why that unit kept cycling so frequnectly on me last winter. I believe that a CPH reduction is probably warranted in each of those tstats and that would reduce the number of total HVAC cycles upstairs. The downside is that some rooms way have a wider tempertaure swing and then a longer run to get up to the set temp. But I would rather have a reduction in cycles as long as the swings are not too big (which could cause Aux Heat to pop on). Imagine Room 1 calling for heat and getting serviced - then shutting off. Then a few minutes later, Room 2 does the same thing, then Room 3. If I stretch out the ON/OFF times in all rooms, I will increase the probability that heat calls will overlap. I will check on the L line. I believe that my tstat does not use L becasue I get no alarm lights when the compressor locks out - and I would like to have that. There have been cases where the compressor has locked out and the only way I knew it is when it got very cold in the room and I opened up the heat pump cover to see the red light on the contoller....See MoreComparing geothermal to ultra high efficiency conventional
Comments (3)At that price, I'd probably do geo. The big advantage is that you system will last longer. It is not that easy to compare HE with geo which is why you don't find an online comparison. My personal guess is that you are within 10% of each other in the summer and 20% less with geo in the winter. So if your house is tight, this might just be $200 a year so the payback for geo is 30 years. But - and this is a big but - the geo unit will last twice as long so as soon as you have to replace a unit (15? years), then geo comes out ahead. People may disagree but I live in NC - a bit warmer than you - have 16 seer HPs (with NG backup) and spend roughly $700 a year to heat 5000 sqft. If I had propane, it would be $850. So that is where 20% really isn't a lot of money ($170 to be exact). I spend about $700 to a/c so another $70 for summer. You see why the payback is so long..... Now the desuperheater may tip the balance. I have no idea what that saves but it could be $300 a year. That would shorten payback significantly (obviously). Or you could go solar for $3k (at least with my tax credits) and save yourself $400 a year........See MoreTerraSource Geothermal DIY Nightmare
Comments (24)I don't know what the exact problem is here and how it got there. I do know that at one point or another if the customer threatens legal action or just won't agree that that the company has done what it should, that company or person is likely going to be advised by their lawyer to cease all contact with you and wait for your legal options to commence. At one point you may be considered an non satisfy-able customer. Again I am just passing on info I am not judging. I do feel I can pass judgement on Nick at Terrasource and can tell you that his cell number is the same as when he gave it to me in 2010, that he always returns my calls, that he always took time to help me during my install, a number of times I might add, and once when my water to water system stopped working, he helped me trouble shoot it over the phone, bad capacitor, bought a spare for $28 CAN and used it till he was able to send another, which he did under warranty. 2 years my water to air stopped working. Again a phone call, left a message, got a call back within an hour or so, troubleshot the problem with me, again a bad capacitor, this time had a spare I could use from the previous time. He will be sending me another shortly. If I have to replace the $28 capacitor on each unit in 5 years to heat a 4500 sq ft home and an attached 1100 sq ft garage, add all our other hydro use-age to it and pay $4700/yr CAN total, well I'm pretty happy about that too. Yes that is in Canada where it's "COLD". What I would like to know is how this customer lost pressure in a line, and then in 2 or 3 more lines later on. To me this can only point at 2 things. One being a bad batch of pipe. This could be possible but highly unlikely. The pipe is rated for much more pressure than what is being used but let's say there was the odd million to one chance that a portion of pipe so poor was passed on to a customer that did have a leak, well that could be possible. But now to have 2 more leaks on other lines, well that just seems to point at the other possible cause of the problem. The customer, or the people they hired to install the loops, the excavator or both may have contributed to the pipe being damaged/kinked enough to greatly undermine the strength of the poly pipe. To avoid any mistakes, when we installed these loops ourselves, we took great pains to ensure that during backfill they would not get moved or damaged. Hint: lay the pipe, backfill 2' taking great care at the end loop, and lay the pipe going back. Then backfill the remainder. You're excavator might not like it but ensures the pipe is laid correctly. I can see how backfilling it all at once could crush the loops as well as move the pipe. I personally think that the one and only customer I know of that is complaining about this system did not make sure the loops were installed properly and ruined them. We have enjoyed the huge savings buying the DIY system, and also later in my utility costs, I also know that every inch of our system was done by us and not someone rushing or having their mind somewhere else or just not caring. And by the way, 3/4" line works perfectly for us and I like the fact that my manifold is not underground and welded....See Morecs6000
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8 years ago
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