My house also has 10-foot walls, and we used studs that were made of shorter pieces joined together. The builder said these are used for that length of studs because it is harder to get 10-foot boards good and straight. I was also told repeatedly by several people that they are considered stronger or, like pinktoes says, more stable. (I don't know. I'm just repeating what I was told.)

I can say that every single professional person who walked through the house prior to sheetrock - from the door salesman to my uncle who is a framer himself in another state - commented on how superior the framing looked.

They stay straighter, less chance of twisting, warping. They aren't necessarily stronger. The glue joint itself is typically stronger than the wood. Generally finger joint lumber is limited to studding or vertical applications as it does not meet horizontal load requirements. I haven't seen finger joint lumber here in ca. in a long while, I dont know if it is banned now, but back in the old days they made for a pretty straight wall.

The other advantage is they are getting more out of the tree by using selective scraps that in most mills goes into the furnace to generate steam that powers the plant.They have plenty of scraps for that operation as a rule.

Don't worry about it. They are fine to use - and in our ever-growing green mindset, better on the environment.

There are some suggested (by JLC)--don't know about building codes--restrictions on how much and where you can notch into those framing studs. As I recall, it is a requirement on the taller heights only.

I agree that finger-jointed are certainly straight, but the issue I have with them is that they pop & snap (noise) during the summer in Texas. That glue start's to expand and contract in the heat and thus pull on the wood. It can be very distracting sometimes.

They are apparently code compliant but the IRC allows some pretty low grade studs in a house so it is necessary to look beyond the code for quality standards.

They come in many grades so it is necessary to specify them as carefully as any other framing lumber. Unique to these studs is a rating for use in an exterior wall and for vertical use only.

When I started in the business of designing buildings, glue was not an acceptable way of holding two materials together. I still find it difficult to trust a glue joint to protect life and limb. I wonder what the comparative cost and lifespan is.

I would only consider them in areas of compression. Neutral and tension areas would be off limits. I have had them used in fencing where they haven't lasted even one season (in California where the weather is moderate). Visible pieces looked like hell and needed to be replaced.

Renovator8 the glue used to bond wood together is usually stronger then the wood. If you break the stud it will likely not break at a joint. James maybe the boards you were using were not rated for exterior use.

This thread is from 9 years ago with one post from 2 years ago.

I have my first experience with Finger joined studs. Building new home and came to look 4 days later and found all finger joined studs installed in whole house. I argued that these might not hold weight of the roof, moisture, glue cracking, ect.

Of course sales, tried to convince me that they are stronger, straighter and cost more than conventional Studs.

I personally do not know. Does anyone else out there have knowledge of this?

The issue is not if finger jointed studs are strong, its whether or not the grade specified or used is adequate for the loading and exposure. The same is true for any other kind of load bearing stud.

I personally do not know. Does anyone else out there have knowledge of this?

Houses that I built 17 years ago with them seem to be doing fine. I'd use them over regular studs any day.

Thanks for your inputs. It does help me to make a good decison.

I first saw them used in a Pulte home in TX about 17 years as ago -- not that IC's statement needed any validation of any kind....

All studs have to meet the same strength and grading standards so tell us what the grade stamp says and what is the loading is, i.e. how many floors, rafters or trusses, ground snow load and wind speed for the area, etc. Major beam loads should be supported on PSL posts instead of built up studs.

I am buying a home now they are using finger joints every did they are strong . I asked the building inspector and he dodged most of my questions . The builder said it was tested buy Texas A&M . ( the same people she built the bone fire the collapsed ) I took a stud and struck it on the ground simulating a side load and it broke at he finger joint with very little effort . So I picked up another and the same thing happened . There are some studs the have up to 8 finger joints in them . Some have chunks missing out of them . The builder is insisting the it's ok because they will be covered up . Then they threw in the green card out that its is good for the environment . Oh well then that makes it ok . When the weather gets rough we will be saving the environment by putting out mulch all over the county . If the homes were built with a cover of wood rather than paper ( i.e. ) Thurmo seal . , on the out side I could see the use of finger joints . But truth be told , it's just builder going cheap . Wood will twist but if the homes are built with Quality in mind . They would not need to lie to us about The strength of recycled wood over natural wood . Theres lots of old homes out ther that don't have problem s that were built with natural wood.

Tornados and straight line winds Use to not destroy homes as easily as they do now . Think about it . I'm going to find another builder .

Ok, it has been 8 months or so since I posted a concern about finger joined studs. Here is what I experienced so far yes, there is popping and cracking during hot weather. Quite obviously as ther were being installed they looked like junk wood before sheetrocking. Now, I am not going to encourage or discourage the use of these finger jointed studs, but so far no problem. I still prefer the solid Lumber. The two main concerns are: Termites because it was white softwood used. The other is the glue holding for moisture and time. To me: I am not completely sold on this method. I did get a engineering statement just in case it falls down. Another is strength vertical as well as horizontal.

A good salesman can convince you that it would survive a Tornado or a record hurricane and snowfall. So good luck on your choice. I just don't have the good or bad recommendations you may be seeking. Check back with me in maybe 3 years to see if any new problems have reared it's ugly head.

If I ever start a finger joint company I think I will call it "Nuckles".

(hey, what kind of comment do you expect from a ten year old discussion?)

So far, I have no problems noted other than popping and cracking, and I hate that. Sheetrock seems to be doing ok. But if you had saw what I did in the pieces of wood fingered together, you would not want it in your house. Junk wood with splintered, busted out, knots, 7 to eight pieces of wood to make a 2 x 4 Stud. I am always wondering if something will collapse or break under loads.

kind of like propping up a two ton truck balanced over two two finger jointed studs. Feel safe?They may hold for a while (at least until the salesmen change jobs). I guess I am old school, want the good studs that Home Depot and Lowes sell. Not the cost cutting. Who gets the savings? Obviously the Home sales. Not you or I. Going green is just another sales technique. So my choice is a tried and true one with no finger joined junk studs. I am tired of listening to the popping in middle of day and night. Maybe I can sell it to a "going green" nut.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this out. Using these cheaply made pieces of left over wood glued together benefits builders and not consumers. There is a builder where I live who is building large areas of spec homes cheaper then anyone else in town. My husband is an engineer and looked over the construction of one of these homes because a relative asked him to inspect how things were going. My husband and I have previously built two custom homes and let me just say my husband would never go with a builder using this type of cheap material. Plus when he inspected the construction the headers over the doors had open areas with no support. There was no insulation behind shower installations, etc.

My daughter has a good friend who bought from this builder, lived in the home for about 5 years. She started noticing marked settling in her home with cracks in the walls. One thing my husbsnd also noted was the fact the dirt under the foundations of these homes were not being compacted which would cause faster settling in a home, especially if it is a 2 story or a large home.

So if you decide to buy a spec home go see what/how a builder is constructing these homes. I would never go with a builder who is using this type of wood in construction. I live in a part of Texas where winds sometime get over 70 mph. You need a home with good construction to withstand wind damage, heat, etc. It’s sad there are builders making a lot of money off of unsuspecting consumers. Buyer beware.

Everyone of those issues has zero to do with the topic of this thread. Finger jointed studs are and approved and structurally sound building component.

As long as finger-jointed lumber is in compression (as stud walls are) they are perfectly fine, if the species specified for stud walls is appropriate. Look for other issues. This isn't one.

@millworkman Read your post and for roughly two years now after my original post, I can now speak from experience. I have lived into a new house with somewhere around 100 percent structural finger jointed studs. First, I will not speak against or recommend anyone to use them. Your choice. Now did I have a problem so far?...well not yet.. as far as settling goes, however... the popping noise gives me fits and wakes me up at night. One pop was so loud last summer we thought something in the roof area had broken. Never found anything though. I have checked for sheetrock cracking, found none so far. I did note that tapping or bumping the sheetrock gives a drum like sound that makes me feel like it is secured with only two screws. I also found that apparently the glue attracts insects for some reason. therefore I am concerned about termites. A finger jointed stud was left over from the build outside and when I picked it up I noticed that Ants and some other insects (I did not identify) were common in or mostly around the glue joint area while the rest of the wood did not have any. Termites later? I was told that the glue had been checked for everything. Maybe or maybe not, who knows? The studs used were certified for vertical only. Therefore in Summary, I am not a believer personally in them for several reasons. Possible Termites, Being Structurally sound, popping noises, and the glue joints just do not look healthy to me. I did have a Structure Engineer certify them, for all the good that done. So there you have my evaluation and the choice is yours. Hope this helps someone.

Certified Exterior Joints, manufactured in lengths up to 60', can be used in all structural applications. Finger-jointed wood is often more expensive than conventional dimensional lumber, so their use is not "a matter of cheap builders making money off unsuspecting consumers."

Popping sounds are standard in most new homes as the materials settle into place. All manmade structures are in constant movement as wind loads, earth settlement, moisture content, temperature changes and the differential movement amongst the materials composing the house interact. And, of course, much more notable in wood-frame homes absent masonry cladding.

****

A few months after taking possession of a home I built, the owners copied me with a letter they had sent the city building department expressing their concern that their home was in imminent danger of structural failure based on the terrible noises they were hearing. The inspector quickly pinpointed the problem: the metal pan at the end of a joist air return was reacting to the heating/cooling cycle. My handyman pulled back the carpet, cut out a section of subfloor and replaced the metal with wood. It took him an hour. (BTW, panning joists as air returns is a poor practice that shouldn't be done.)

Ok, I can speak with a little more info about Finger Jointed Studs. I have Sheetrock cracking and the popping is still happening. I called the Homes builder and yep same ol spill. They are using these in newer homes and they are twice as good as the studs you are used to seeing. Modern Engineering has proved these to be reliable. And of course now that the house is built with the crummy studs, they won't do anything to help. They were great during the build process as long as they were supported by sales people. Now they are still trying to convince me they are still great. I regret ever listening to anyone promoting these studs. Your choice. Wish you could see my sheetrock now. below is actual pictures of my house. Go ahead and listen to those who feel they are ok. I have my opinion already.

People who are praising these studs as Engineering Marvels need to come look at my house. Cracked Sheetrock, popping noise, nails popping out of sheetrock. Settling they say. Normal.

Do a little research on those who are praising these studs and I would bet they are builders who don't want a law suite. I wish I had never listened to the good old boy spill. Oh! the builder won't fix anything now. Out of warranty. Next, they will probably try to use match sticks with glue and tell you that is what the new homes are being built with and they are actually much stronger that the standard 2 X 8 used in older homes. Get smarter than me people.

“Next, they will probably try to use match sticks with glue and tell you that is what the new homes are being built with and they are actually much stronger that the standard 2 X 8 used in older homes.”

Uh, That’s already being done. Called “glulam” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glued_laminated_timber

Worthy,

You could make these as long as you want and I would not use them. (Personally speaking) But if someone has convinced you to use them, good luck.

People who are praising these studs as Engineering Marvels need to come look at my house. Cracked Sheetrock, popping noise, nails popping out of sheetrock.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc...

Thus far this is just your garden variety logical fallacy. You haven't given any connection between your problems and finger jointed studs. You didn't like or trust them originally and now that you have a problem you have decided they must be the reason for it.

So let's examine this logically... cracked sheetrock, popping noises and nail pops are something that happen in a lot of houses that don't use finger jointed studs. In fact, finger jointed studs are not common in my area (and they are not in my house) and my house had all three of these things happen in the past few years. Moreover, these things can be quite severe when there are design issues that allow too much deflection.

(1) You have finger jointed studs, (2) you have problems that exist in many homes with and without finger jointed studs, (3) therefore, finger jointed studs must be the problem... See the issue?

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I honestly don't care what kind of studs people use in their homes, however, I would caution against deciding the case before you have even done the investigation.

I am not deciding anything, people can use anything they want. Respectively speaking, I disagree with your point of view on these studs but don't really want to disagree with some kind of debate over the internet about them. People can make their own choices about these studs and that is their choice. For me personally and what experiences I have seen and had, I would never use them again. That said...I am through.

"I disagree with your point of view on these studs"

What point of view are you disagreeing with? I gave absolutely no opinion on any stud whatsoever... I simply pointed out the fallacy in your conclusion.

You gave support for your conclusion that doesn't actually support your conclusion. Are you suggesting that only houses built with finger jointed studs have issues with cracked sheetrock, popping noises and nail pops?

I make no assertion as to the quality of any stud. However I will assert that it is much more likely that similar issues have similar causes than dissimilar causes...

My engineer won't specify them so I don't use them. I use him so I don't have to waste time on structural conundrums.

From my understanding these finger jointed studs are ok for partition wall s but definitely not load bearing walls

"From my understanding these finger jointed studs are ok for partition wall s but definitely not load bearing walls"

Where do you understand that from? FJ Studs are perfectly acceptable for Load Bearing Walls. In fact they can be used in any application the solid sawn studs would be used.

I have been 3.5 years into my home since I first discovered that I had Finger Jointed studs into the home. So after 3.5 years later, I can now speak my experience with them and only for those who really wish to know and hear my experience and maybe it will help someone decide.

I write this just to allow you who are seeking information to share an experience with someone who has them installed. I am not trying to cause any problems for those who use or manufacture

these. This is my experience with them and nothing else intended. Anyone else who wants to pump up their usage online... feels free. I don't care to create an argument online about these worthless Fingerjointed Studs if you love them build your home with them.

First, The popping noise is not as loud but still there at night. The Sheetrock has cracked across the full length over the Bar area and Kitchen. Walls in several corners have exhibited cracks. Sheetrock is cracking in several places throughout the house. Strangely only two sheetrock nails have popped out lately. I now have a large maintenance problem to repair the sheetrock. If I fix the sheetrock now will it do it again? Don't know. I am not a builder and just a homeowner, nothing more. Called the builder and ask about repair, nope out of 1-year warranty. However, he said I have a 10-year structural warranty available. Called 10-year warranty insurance where you pay $250 to have them come to look then they will decide if it meets their requirements of the repair In the 10-year program package. The warranty would only apply if the Roof has caved in or walls collasped in so many words. Of course, there are more legal terms over several pages but the meaning is about the same. Now, how would you address crappy studs causing or contributing to my concern? Nope, looks like I will have to pay out of pocket. I would never, never, never ever build a new home with these Finger Jointed studs.

I don't care how many people step up to the plate online and say they are certified, structurally

sound and safe and have an engineering certification to use. This information is free and you have the freedom to chose anyway you wish to use or not use them.

@roy3209 How many new houses have you owned? Nail pops are a normal part of any newer home and really not that rare in older homes, wood is a hygroscopic material.

My house doesn't have finger jointed studs, it has both drywall cracks and nail pops. Wood moves, and wood studs move in different directions. You are describing things that are much more likely to occur from improperly cured lumber than from finger jointed studs and attributing them to finger jointing. Glue is stronger than wood at temperatures under 200° Celsius and if you are that close to the ignition temperature in wood, then you probably shouldn't be using wood.

Finger jointed studs tend to reduce nail pops and if you really understand wood, you understand why. I have an Alaskan mill and so I often will cut logs into lumber and then let them dry. Despite my best efforts some of those boards will twist and or warp. If I have a board with a lot of twist or cup in it, I will saw the boards in half to minimize that and join them back up later. Every piece of wood is different but all wood dries in a different state than it was when wet. Construction lumber is often pretty wet when it is used and will dry out over years. or it is kiln dried and will move on its own. Go over to the local big box, grab five 8' studs, lie them next to each other in a place they will not be disturbed and draw a lines across them. Come back 6 months later and see where your lines are.

Do the same experiment with finger jointed studs and you will find that the lines you drew are closer to the original point with finger jointed studs than they are without it. It is just a mathematical function of the random grain directions in a finger jointed pattern.

Your walls are going to move because odds are they are studs without blocking 16" or 24" on center. Your drywall is going to move less because it does. That is going to cause nail pops and drywall cracks. There are plenty of ways to lessen that movement if you want to pay significantly more for your home. Most people just deal with it.

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I have no finger jointed studs in my house, I wouldn't even know where to find them in my area and I certainly have no skin in this game other than pointing out your post hoc fallacy. You have finger jointed studs and you have damage that is common in the green lumber used in the building industry. So explain why your finger jointed studs are causing the damage rather than the lumber being green,

I remember using these studs back in the early 90s. They we’re definitely junk back then. I remember spreading studs for a wall and while dropping them they would snap at the finger joints. some of them were coming apart just by grabbing them off the bunk of studs. Carrying walls into place the finger joints would break. The ones today may be better but I doubt it given the fact that they’re built out of more pieces. . I would much rather see Weyerhaeuser and Georgia Pacific turn those pieces into OSB sheathing and keep those prices down. 20$+ for a piece of 15/32 OSB is ridiculous.

Go in any new house that has 24 inch on center studs, a single plate top and bottom, lack of wood blocking at drywall (48 inches above floor, much to the electricians agony) nail guns that sink nails 1/4 inch (improperly adjusted) into sheathing that is improperly stored and protected, corner assemblies with a 1/2 inch lip for drywall, you get the idea. It is not likely you can get a great wall system. Studs, by definition, are used in plumb settings in compression. If you are using finger jointed studs or solid that are cracked and unsound, and not installed with care into a well designed framing plan, you get these issues you are talking about, and it ain't the studs that are the problem. BTW, good finger jointed studs are more expensive than cheap studs, and about the same as top grade SPF studs, which I hardly see in framing these days, except in very high quality builds. Straight studs are far superior to bowed studs, and a fir stud is stronger than a white pine stud, but weaker than a yellow pine stud, as long as it it does not contain too much sapwood. But a white pine stud is perfectly fine, if it is kiln dried, straight and installed correctly.. Toss the poor quality studs into the reject pile, use them for blocking.

pfr pfr;

I tend to agree with your point somewhat, it does affect how Sheetrock is installed and nail length as well. But really here is what I am seeing along with that is Finger Jointed studs up to eight joints glued together with some two inches long (just to use up the available wood at the mill I would guess) and some with the flat 1 1/2 inch sides missing over 70 percent to secure sheetrock. Many have Tree Bark as something to nail to and missing areas with numerous slpits in the wood that I do not see how loads would support. I have numerous pictures of the studs before sheetrock was installed.

The above pictures were actually used in my home and I have many others like them. Now maybe many will see what I am talking about.

yes, your contractor may have used poor quality studs. the bottom picture shows a stud that is a reject. The top one is pretty typical of a batch of common studs today., and not likely to be problematic, if it is straight. As a builder, I throw them into the reject pile, and send them back or use them for blocking. It is not the finger joint that is the problem. It is the framing technique, design and at it's core, it is framer/engineer selection and quality.

I will use this as an example. Cars are not really getting much lighter anymore, because structural rigidity and passenger safety are the driving forces. They have been subtracting mass from building structure for decades. Some of it does not negatively impact the structure, but a lot of it does. Some of it actually improves envelope thermal performance, but I am not just an old fart saying they don't build houses like they used to. They don't , they perform better, in general,
But they are of significantly lower quality, because of builder focus and structural minimalism. Is it going to fall down? I doubt it. Are you going to have cracks and nail pops. yep. it isn't the finger jointed studs.

BTW, this association with popping noises having to do with the glue is not realistic. Studs should be in compression. is the wall moving, or are the joists shrinking, is the plate shifting? All new wood frame homes make noises. I would certainly venture a guess that new homes make a lot more noise than old homes. But, total settlement of 1/4 inch vs. 1/2 inch is the difference between a drywall crack and a happy homeowner.

To: pfr pfr

I appreciate your answer and position on these "Finger jointed studs". Please remember that I am only speaking of my experience with the use of these studs and not trying to stir the pot with my comments. I can understand that any house can be built out of cardboard boxes and matchsticks secured with glue, but I don't want one, but I have now a house built out of Finger Jointed Studs that I don't really trust. Now to comment on your above. First, no I have not found a wall that seemed to have moved out of its original position so we can count that one out so far. Now, here is one that you can hang your hat on...During our Ice storm, I had a frozen pipe behind the wall,

So I had to bust out an area of sheetrock with a hammer (Between studs). When I hit the sheetrock about maybe 5 times with a hammer in order to remove it to gain access to the busted pipe. the Stud actually broke. (And no I was lucky enough to hit enough between the Two studs close enough that it shouldn't have done much damage to any other type of stud. Instead, it broke about an inch and a half across the glue joint. The new homes are being built without the benefit of outside sheeting such as OSB or plywood so they have only plastic sheeting and the Brick positioned further to the outside of the Stud and plastic sheeting. Now you are most likely wondering if either hit it harder than I am saying to gain any benefit of the doubt to all you readers, the answer is no and I did not use a sledgehammer to prove a point. I wish I had thought more about taking pictures that would have been more fact-finding but I did not take any. (Sorry) I was more interested in getting water service to my home during the storm. Now, if the above is any indication of strength, I would not want to be in high winds. Also, not all of the home is without OSB sheeting but the side I am speaking of is. These studs are on 24-inch centers which is the building standard these days.

To Matt Regan

In your article, I just experienced something similar to exactly what you described. Please refer

to my article Mar 1, 2021

Hi roy3029,

Im in same situation as you were.

Here are few images of the studs (100% vertical posts) are from finger joined studs.

Refer to pics.

Again, nothing wrong with FJ Studs as long as they are NRLA stamped as stud grade or better.

This is the second 14-year old thread that has come back to life. Amazing...!