This is all very interesting to me. It is sad for me to think that someone would use an alias with the intention of saying something mean.
People come and go on this site, but it is nice when you actually start to recognize people and get to know them. You then start to value their opinion and advise. And I do appreciate having a place to some to at all hours and be able to get support, ideas, opinions etc.
That said, this is not real life, and the written word can sound different than the spoken word. I don't think we should take what goes on here too seriously.

I think that there are many reasons for having more than one account. I've got at least 2 maybe 3. When I first registered, there was a shut down on GW of some sort and many of us had to start anew. Then a couple of years ago, I just got sick of my uncomplimentary screen name and started fresh, but never tried to cover up my identity. I was just reading faux's post about her new house and she says she used a new name because she didn't want the negativity of that post to affect our future advice to her - also seems legit to me.

To just start a new account to be able to voice opinions you don't want to come back to you, doesn't seem like fair play. It reminds me of the problems we have in school trying to deal with the anonymity kids feel they have on the internet to say and do things that they know are not right and wouldn't do without that false shield of facelessness.

While I agree with you about using an alias is "deceiving," I think I'm more shocked that you would begin a topic about this because *I* was the one who didn't see it as lying. Was this really necessary? Please remember, we are real people behind our screen names and it hurts badly when one of us (me) wakes up to our (my) first cup of coffee and see that we (I) have been singled out because of something we (I) disagreed with. Now it's easy to see why people do create new names.

BTW, I used to own a message board too, and it was fun deleting the aliases. I and the moderators called them aliases, but I guess sock puppet is the new moniker for them.

Again, I do consider it to be deceiving, and I guess maybe lying...by omission.

If the alias is used only to stir the pot, or be mean, then I agree it's a deception : or sometimes it may be to redeem one self and start fresh ?

Having multiple names does not a sock puppet make-- as Cindyloo, Mitch and others have mentioned, there are plenty of reasons to change user names.

Sock puppetry has a clear intent-- and it's despicable on all levels. At it's worst, it's in the realm of the internet terrorism of the Anonymous organization (read up on them if you arent familiar-- it's scary stuff).. or the smaller groups/individuals who get off on being nasty and causing mayhem. Sometimes their motives are political.. sometimes it's just about stirring up trouble.

If sock puppetry does go on here-- and based on a few posts I've read, i suspect it does-- then I suspect it's probably coming from a dark and unhealthy personal place. Jealousy? Retaliation? Who knows. Whether you'll acknowledge it publicly or not, we all know there are members here who infuse drama and start trouble out of nothing. Some have carried it off board into private emails. It's not a far stretch to imagine them also turning to sock puppetry. It would be sad if it weren't so invasive and infuriating.

So yes, I think it is deceptive.. lying.. and outrageous behavior. But that said, I am not going to spend energy trying to sniff them out. As I see it, it's their issue.. their mental health. I am not going to sully my world with their toxicity.

If this is someone using an alias simply to voice this opinion, I can't say as I blame them for resorting to an alias. Not everyone is up for being flamed!

I don't find what they said to be "mean". It's a very general statement about how people behave on the internet, imo. I do think it's possible they don't understand constructive input, either, but there aren't any specifics to what type of comments they're referring to. Outside a decorating forum, it's considered rude to critique people's homes and decor.

Here it is:

"I have been a "lurker" for a long time and am amazed at the uncalled for, mean comments that show up when a poster asks for a comment on their decorating choices.

What purpose does it serve to slam another's decorating ideas?

If you don't like their choice, keep it to yourself."

Funky, I think you are being way too harsh and I highly doubt this person is mentally ill or part of a terrorist group. Good grief! That's just beyond over the top. Maybe cut back on your caffeine, lol.

Snookums.. never did I say or think that I thought the OP of the other thread was a sock puppet. I dont. Never did.

THIS topic is on sock puppets in general as I understood it.

I feel terrible that you (Snookums) or anyone would think I was slamming the OP of the other thread. I am pretty damn direct-- so I'd have said that outright if that's what I meant.

If you check the other thread, I was the sole poster who stood up and called foul on all the posts that said everyone here and every post is supportive and constructive. At the time I posted, everyone was jumping on the OP for not being able to take constructive feedback. There absolutely are rude, unconstructive, uncalled for and plain old mean posts. I am not saying it's the norm or the tone of the board-- but they do exist and clearly one of them hit a nerve with the OP. I choose to ignore them for the most part but I do sometimes call them out. Just as I ignore and avoid those who try to spark drama.

I have to admit when I saw the title of this thread this morning I was totally confused. I had no idea what a child's toy had to do with lying! I had never heard of this phrase in terms of an alias. I learned something new today.

Since then I read the other thread and also the Wikipedia definition online. Fascinating!

"In 2007, the CEO of Whole Foods, John Mackey, was discovered to have posted as "Rahodeb" on the Yahoo Finance Message Board, extolling his own company and predicting a dire future for its rival, Wild Oats Markets, while concealing his relationship to both companies. Whole Foods argued that nothing that Mackey did broke the law.[19][6]" From Wikipedia.

Now, with that being said, I originally registered here as blsdgal when we began planning our new home 10 yrs ago. When I came back a couple of years ago, I couldn't remember my password.

Just wanted everyone to know that I am not a liar nor I am I using a sock puppet!

I'm so out of touch, I thought this was going to be a discussion about Shari Lewis and Lambchop.

And obviously I'm pretty naive because it has never occurred to me that people were masquerading with multiples user names here.

I don't think "Gran" would be considered a bonafide Sock Puppet. She obviously got hurt by something said to her and felt the need to lash out but under a different name.

True Sock Puppets post to start trouble, and I don't see Gran doing that. In fact, I don't recall seeing any sock puppet's here, or maybe I haven't been paying attention.

Funky, I silently agreed with you in the other thread. I'm still wondering why the OP of THIS thread felt the need to call me out just because we didn't see eye to eye on something minor. She may not have used my name, but I was the one she was referring to in her topic.

I also have to wonder why no one is sticking up for me? I think that's what bites the most.

I'll say it again, I dont see any evidence that the OP of the other thread was a sock puppet or alias. I dont know why you think it's so obvious that she is someone else. Why can't she be a "mostly lurker" who hit a limit and felt she needed to speak out?

As for sticking up for you. I think no one has jumped to defend you because no one sees this thread as the slap in your face that you do. The OP wanted to continue the discussion on sock puppets without hijacking the other thread. She has a different viewpoint than you do (as do I)-- no big deal. It's what generates interesting and lively discussions. It certainly isn't worth churning on... or spoiling your morning coffee.

I agree, Funky. Well put.

Oakley this thread has nothing at all to do with you. As funky pointed out, I thought the topic of sock puppets deserved it's own thread, because it was clear that some people knew nothing about the practice.

I also knew that somewhere in that other thread, at least one person said she didn't feel it was the same as lying. I didn't know or care who said it.

I don't know one poster here from another. If you asked me to attach a personality to any given name, I could not do it. Within a given thread, to refer back to an individual's post by name, I have to go back and find the name. Once I'm out of that thread, I don't remember a single thing about WHO said what in the thread.

Next week I will remember the subject of Gran8's thread. I will remember certain posts that made an impression on me, but I won't remember that Gran8 was the OP and I won't remember who wrote the memorable posts.

That opinion that having a sock puppet was not the same as lying, was a first in my experience. In every community I've ever visited, it is considered deplorable and it's the one thing that is likely to lead to other people asking the offender to leave. I was interested in finding out what the rest of this particular community thought about it, because I can easily see how it could be considered an acceptable behavior in some groups.

Each community tends to create it's own ethical code. Some behaviors that are acceptable, even encouraged in one community, are considered abhorrent elsewhere. I don't think anyone has ever figured out which ethics are more commonly held across the net and I find the differences fascinating.

So you see, there was nothing personal about this thread. I don't understand why you would be bothered to find out that someone else has an opinion different than yours. If every single member of GW came on here and told me they agree with you that sock puppets should not be called liars, that would be fine with me. They are ALL entitled to their opinions, as I am entitled to mine.

It's all about having the courage of your convictions.

“Sock Puppet” is not a new term. It has been around for more than a decade.

Sometimes people don’t want to own their past and they abandon one screen name to start over with another WITHOUT telling everyone they are making the change. This is not sock puppetry but I think it’s despicable. To pull it off they have to lie to everyone else about who the new personality is.

The example of the CEO was not sock puppetry either. That CEO was exercising his right to be anonymous. Unless that CEO was deceitful about his real life connection to the subject matter, I don’t see anything wrong with what he did.

Sock puppetry involves one person appearing under different names simultaneously. Think Shari Lewis weighing in on an issue as herself first, then using lamb chops to support her opinion. She gets credit for two opinions instead of one.

Puppets can be used to start trouble. They can be used for serious skullduggery. People will invent a new forum member, have that member befriend someone privately, and try to find out what that new friend is saying about the original poster behind her back.

But puppets are often used strictly as a defensive measure. Some people use them to deliver a message that might prove controversial. It is a back stabbing cowardly maneuver. If you can’t take criticism it’s not fair for you to dish it out to others. Besides that, unless the owner has taken the time to establish that alternate personality in the forum, it’s opinion carries very little weight.

Sometimes people use puppets to level a playing field on a forum. There are people that feel overwhelmed if numerous others disagree with them. There could be a group of ten allies that always support each other’s posts and the loner can’t take it. The loner might invent ten loyal allies of his own, hoping his opinions will carry more weight that way.

I am not accusing Gran8 of being a puppet. Although the red flags are there, they are not conclusive. And FWIW the part of that post that I felt crossed the line was the edict, “If you don't like their choice, keep it to yourself."

I posted this on the other thread - gran8 registered October 08, 2005. (altho I may have typed 2006 in error). As far as I can tell, there is no way to change your user name using that old registration. So it appears she was truthful about being a long time lurker.

I know it's confusing Olychick. We are not saying people make changes to a registered account. We are saying, people register more than once, using different email accounts. They select a different user name with each registration whether they want to or not, because the system won't allow two users to have the same name. Voila', they are now here under two different names.

As I said, I think I have two never before used accounts here. If I needed a sock puppet with some "cred", lol, I could start posting under one or both of those accounts.

It is also possible that a longtime lurker really did post for the first time ever, just to tell us all how to behave.

Whether gran8 is posting for the first time or not, I personally don't find that any more troubling than those who think it within their right to tell him/her how to behave.

I don't know that I can ascribe motives to people I know and love, much less than to anonymous contributors on these types of forums. While each of us are entitled to interpret, explain and defend whatever position we choose, if others don't like it, does it really matter? Certainly not to me, although I have no problem stating when I find opinions tossed about to be less than constructive. That does not mean that I withhold my negative opinion in a decorating thread when clearly the OP asks for advice, but I hope to offer it as another view without being mean. They either accept or reject other perspectives as clearly they should.

Sometimes though the comments get snarky about someone's home, more so recently than in the past though I don't go back as far as many. I try not to vent my feelings when I find something disturbing, though now and then I will express how tiresome the pettiness is. Yes, that shows I too can be petty in focusing on behavior that is truly not significant to me.

As far as aliases, I find it odd that anyone would assume that sometimes the same computer cannot be used by more than one person, both in a work or residential setting. I also find it odd that anyone would care if the same person posts under a different name for whatever reason. There are other sites where it seems that unstable people instigate conflict, lash out by putting others down as if they are the only arbiter and/or resort to vulgar language, but I steer clear of those forums.

Of course, those of us who have been here for a while tend to notice who is typically more negative, or more pretentious, or more myopic about his/her supposedly refined tastes, or uber sensitive and inclined to attack. I have read about the occasional personal email nonsense, but again, this is an internet board and does not intrude on my personal life. If I notice someone exhibiting traits that I prefer not to deal with, it's simple enough to ignore them. By the same token, if I express an opinion that others disagree with that's perfectly fine if they let me know. Usually, I try to focus on an issue and not an individual, but if on occasion I tick someone off and they call me on it, that's ok with me regardless if I think their opinion is an accurate assessment or based on misunderstanding of the issue at hand.

I can't go so far as to say so-called sock-pockets are unethical or liars as that's too broad a stroke for me. In the case cited by Wiki on the CEO's supposed attempts to anonymously denigrate a competitor, I do think that type of behavior is unethical as there are potentially stock consequences. This is similar to using aliases to defame rivals or drum up support or undeserved praise for one's own work, whether intellectual or real property. Although done by many famous people, IMO it is not ethical.

Perhaps I haven't paid attention as I come and go as a poster depending on how much time I choose to devote to fluff instead of my real life, but I haven't seen a lot of negativity on this site. The regular posters for the most part are caring, helpful and gracious. If some of the newer posters are snarky or downright vicious, I ignore it as that type of behavior simply reflects on the poster. Life's too short and too fulfilling to clutter up with negativity. I hope to support not only specific persons however and wherever we intersect -- but only if that is in keeping with the common good -- and to be as much of a healing force as I can muster. Those who aren't on the same page simply will not be in sync. That's just the way it is.

Sorry for the confusion then. When I saw where you wrote, "I never heard anyone say they don't think using a sock puppet is the same as lying, until today." That was me you were referring to so you can see why I questioned your intentions of starting a new thread about me disagreeing.

Cindy, I agree with you that sock puppet's or using a different alias has been around since the beginning of message boards. I've been on message boards since 1991, beginning with "Prodigy." Back then we had to use our real name, so everyone behaved. lol

Funky, I'm not putting down Gran, but if she was just a lurker for ALL these years, she'd come back and defend herself, don't you think? Why do a hit and run topic unless she's hiding behind a different screen name? It's more common than you think. And really, who lurks for years and only does one post on a topic like that?

"Back then we had to use our real name, so everyone behaved. lol"

Really, we are all sock puppets.

Oak, you were hurt earlier today about something that wasn't even directed at you. The OP of the other thread was slammed and most of the comments were directed at her. Of course she'd have been intimidated to respond... how could she not be?

Thank you AB.. as always I appreciate your healthy and rational perspective.

One of the points in the Terms of Service for Gardenweb is that "You agree not to create multiple memberships and/or memberships for another individual." I haven't read all of the posts so perhaps this has been mentioned. Those of us who value the website and the dedication of the webmasters will respect the site's terms. Obviously it's being done by some and there are occasional legitimate reasons for doing so (lost password or change of email) but there's no excuse to have two run simultaneously- that's like playing Jekyl and Hyde. And as someone mentioned its enjoyable to follow the user/poster comments that create a forum personality without actually knowing the person.

As far as using an alias to post disrespectful comments....this reminds me of the George Bernard Shaw quote: "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." So if someone makes rude remarks in person or in a forum post just brush it off and think of the other person as a pig and don't wrestle. Works for me.

Sock puppetry? Does anyone else think there's a whole lot of over-analyzing going on?

Sorry about the misunderstanding Oak. I absolutely see how you probably thought I was trying to take a "vote" to show you just how wrong your opinion was. But no, I just wanted to hear the views of the people here on sock puppets!

This is the most polite forum I've ever seen. I think any use of puppets here must be very rare.

With all this talk about the puppets, the truth is that they don't work out very well, lol. Many people have a "tell" in their writing style. Others, get confused and forget which account they are working in, signing the wrong name to their post and giving themselves away.

Hilltop thanks for that TOS info!

Also, not to make light of anyone's opinions, but I've been around long enough to recognize the pattern of a big brouhaha (altho this is a pretty small, big brouhaha) happening on this and other forums every year at this time. Others have speculated that it is because of the impending spring after a long winter of being trapped indoors.

Sometimes it's nice to be predictable - reminds you were all human.

I'm out of the 'internet loop' completely! Have never heard of the term sock puppet and could only think of Lambchop.

I know people do take on another 'persona' and recreate themselves, but that's a coward's way out IMO. I would wager to say IRL, gran8 has a problem with face-to-face confrontation, and therefor isn't about to divulge who she/he is.

Patty I'm pretty sure the term is a reference to Lambchop.

The earliest group of internet settlers were very bright and I always get a kick out of the clever new terms they were forced to invent.

Forced to invent? Forced? Were there guns to their heads?

LMAO, I don't believe any guns were involved, though the internet was the wild west back in those days.

Like most words, "force" has more than one definition. Please see the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dictionary

Tempest in a teapot. The whole thing.

So, Cindyloo, is this post directed at Gran, as others have suggested? And, if not, to whom? Surely you don't expect us to believe that you woke up one day and decided, out of the blue, to write the original post to be lighthearted and informative?

Betsy, this thread was not directed at anyone. The subject of sock puppets came up in another thread.

In the other thread, I could see that some GW members have never heard of sock puppets or even the practice itself.

The sociology of the internet has always fascinated me. There are ethical dilemmas here that do not come up anywhere else. I've enjoyed watching the social mores develop and I appreciate everyone's opinion on that topic.

By writing this, " Surely you don't expect us to believe...", aren't you implying I have some hidden motive for this thread? Are you saying I have been less than honest? If so, it seems your post to me was intended more to cause a problem than to solve one. What's up with that?