No sales on highline appliances. You may find a "deal" on certain display models that some dealers may move so they can get in new generation units. This doesn't automatically happen at year end but can sometimes occur. Buy what you need/want and can afford when you need it. Trying to time the market is going to be frustrating especially if you value YOUR time.

Thanks, Antss!! I appreciate your advice. Because of LIFE I missed the Gaggenau 38% (!!!!) increase. I refuse to pay for some of units I was originally planning.

Did you mean that the dreaded New Year's price increase isn't going to happen on these brands, as well? Or just no to the sales?

I'm about ready to put in the order anyway, and would rather not get hit with another increase. The cabinet maker won't go forward until he sees the receipt (smart man!) so...

Pacific Sales in SoCal is advertising year end sale. It appears that high end appliances are included. Why not invest in one visit to one Pacific Sales store, they have all brands under one roof. Maybe you may be lucky to score on appliances in your list.

I don't see any price increase since we are in a deflationary cycle. If anything; there will be no increase and maybe price drop if they want to have increase sales.

@budgeteer_s, not all of Pacific Sales their high-end is on sale, although they would lead you to believe it. Miele is not included; also, Pacific Sales does not use Miele authorized installers. However, you can get deals on high-end through local dealers versus your chain dealers (Pacific Sales is now owned by Best Buy). The year-end price increases are no longer working in this economy as people are simply choosing not to purchase; case in point: plllog. Manufacturers' must sell their goods if they want to stay in business, and they too must address the realities of today's economy. Many a store is realizing that they must deal to sell their wares; any appliance dealer who tells you that they are not affected by this economy is lying. If the dealer you go to will not deal, then walk out the door to the next oneou will find a dealer who is willing to sell below MSRP, high-end or otherwise.

Start by visiting the web sites for your high-end appliances. Miele, Gaggenau, Monogram and Viking in your case. Each web site has a section called something like "Find a Dealer". Go there and copy the list of dealers. Copy even the ones that are far away. Put these names in one big file or draft email. From there select who you will contact.

Send a standard email to several of them. An individual, separate, email to each one, but with the same queries and explanations and descriptions. Know your model number.

Tell them you want the deal of the month. Every market is different. Some stores will sell for less. YMMV. If you give a target price, that is good and if you reach it, you can then give a lower target price to the other dealers. Within 48 hours you can be buying at a good price. If you call the closest ones, do it early in the day. If you visit the closest ones don't mention your emails until you've looked at the floor models that are on sale.

This is how I might proceed if I had to take over your file. But I don't know if this is the right method to use in your market...

-david

I've been dealng with a Wolf dealer and when I talked to him two weeks ago, he said Wolf was raising prices 6% last Monday. I put down a deposit to lock in the prices. I can't believe they are raising them in this economy. He said stainless prices have skylocketed. He said they have been selling a good number of appliances lately. That's hard to believe but they have been pretty busy in the showroom eveytime I've stopped in.

Thanks for all the information and advice. Turns out I had to work this afternoon anyway :) But on Friday I'll try to see what I can find. I do want to buy locally to support the places that have been so helpful, but I also don't want to be missing an opportunity or throwing away good money. The cooktop I'd settled on went from way too expensive to you've gotta be kidding recently, and there's no way I'm paying that. :)

Thanks for the encouragement, all! I'm certainly willing to play the stores one against the other. :)

Does anybody who works inside the kitchen equipment retail world know if DEALER margins on "built-ins" are higher? Do dealers get a slice of this shake-down pie? Obviously the manufacturers make a killing on them. Because its one thing to say a certain brand is just upscale and expensive. Like Subzero or Liebherr. It's another when you can go to a manufacturer website and see that, for a slightly different shape and placement of compressor, presto, the built-in unit costs twice as much as an equivalent one made of the exact same materials.

I am surprised that now over 20 years after subzero styling became de rigeur for upscale home construction, those of us who don't want to pay the prestige price don't have an option. It never "trickled down". Even in a brand a snob would sniff at like Kenmore, they think they can slap a "pro" after their name and get to charge over double for a built-in. I'd happily buy the Kenmore because I doubt it will have any more maintenance problems than one of the upscale brands. I'm not shopping for the label, I'm shopping for the shape. To compare to televisions, it would be as though most flat panel TVs still came in a 4:3 format version, and the manufacturers charged twice as much for the arduous, incredibly difficult process of make a 16:9 panel. Oh, but wait a minute, it's not incredibly difficult and arduous to make them 16:9, nor is it to make a box that is little taller and flatter, and stick the little pump unit on top instead of the bottom, or to leave the sides unfinished!

FWIW I'd buy the subzero if I thought they would last over 20 years like my parents mid 1980s subzero did. I do not think that any upscale appliance is going to last as long as they once did. Goggle "ROHS tin whiskers".

harry wild: there are certainly price increases scheduled for jan 1; at least on capital, miele and turbo chef ...which we will now need to purchase (even though our home is not ready) in order to avoid the increase.

it makes no sense but that's the way of the world.

Oh, but wait a minute, it's not incredibly difficult and arduous to make them 16:9, nor is it to make a box that is little taller and flatter, and stick the little pump unit on top instead of the bottom, or to leave the sides unfinished!

david - I think you have a way over simplified view of manufacturing. The 16:9 tv's DID cost more to construct when introduced and still do! Why, because the 4:3 market was dominated by by the cathode ray tube that was invented over 50 years ago and paid for decades ago. The new ones are LED or Plasma and the glass and technology manufacturer's are few and far between and more expensive to produce. Less comp. and more licencing fees = higher cost.

On the fridges, Kenmore doesn't make a built in , They dress up a standard box with a few bucks worth of metal and jack the price up, value wise the customer is getting raped. The true built- ins have more hand made components, sometimes multiples, more complex computers and air distribution systems, oh and the engineering that allows many to have a flush cabinet front that doesn't bind up on adjacent cabinetry like every standard fridge box in America does if there isn't several inche of xtra space to the sides of them. There's much more to a built in than jsut profit for the manufacturer. If it were so easy and the market large enough to make a cut rate one don't you think one of the Asian manuf. would sell the in spades? Or, an established make like SZ would offer a built -in "value line" for the lower price market?

I would try to confirm the price increases by calling other dealers and checking with Consumer Reports. With deflationary cycle starting; I find it counter to economics.

Historically, in down market times, the upper end NEVER "suffers". It's only the middle class who desire upper end that has to reassess buying the Dusenberg or yacht or SubZero. The loss of the upwardly mobile middle class segment can somewhat impact a company, but it won't affect those in their true target market. The company will just raise prices even more, and their target market won't even notice. If you're in a certain market, and you want Ferrari or a beach vacation home, you buy the Ferrari or beach vacation home. The cost is immaterial to the product.

Purchased the SZ BI-48S 2 months ago in Canada and got a 1500 rebate off list. It moved to $2500 less than the Miele columns and it was easy to install. Delivered in front of the hole and I installed the bracket and hocked up the plumbing. The Cab people came and installed the doors. Works great and looks good by my eye. The room in the fridge is great. The secret is the size of the on the door storage and the 3 pull out drawers with soft close.

"Historically, in down market times, the upper end NEVER "suffers". It's only the middle class who desire upper end that has to reassess buying the Dusenberg or yacht or SubZero. The loss of the upwardly mobile middle class segment can somewhat impact a company, but it won't affect those in their true target market. The company will just raise prices even more, and their target market won't even notice. If you're in a certain market, and you want Ferrari or a beach vacation home, you buy the Ferrari or beach vacation home. The cost is immaterial to the product."

I guess you did not see the recent CNBC's High Net Worth TV show or looked at the Robbs Report Magazine. The billionaries are hurting and this was before the Bernard Madoff disclosure. They are downsizing and are not buying like they would have because most of their investment is in real estate and in some hedge funds. They have no liquidity! They cannot get loans because of the credit crisis.

Antss, nice job of talking around my points without really addressing them. You should go into politics.

Have you been in a circuit city or best buy in the past couple years? You can't even find a 4:3 CRT tube set. Maybe they can still be found at Kmart or something. It's irrelevant that the "the 4:3 market was dominated by the cathode ray tube" because both markets are gone. For the price I paid for an upscale but not HDTV 32" CRT back in 2000 or so, I could get an HDTV 42" plasma now, maybe even a cheap 50" plasma.

"Kenmore doesn't make a built in, They dress up a standard box with a few bucks worth of metal and jack the price up, value wise the customer is getting raped." Well antss, thanks, this was exactly my point. BTW the unit definitely is built-in, you can see it on their website here:

http://www.kenmore.com/shc/s/p_10154_12604_04640483000P

I'm fine with you saying the Kenmore brand is junk because its irrelevant to my argument; I don't have to worry about that because CR's reliability surveys indicate they are no less reliably than a number of other brands including Subzero. But the fact is they DO charge 2X as much for a differently shaped piece of junk (your assessment), which was the point of MY argument. In this day and age economies of scale arguments just don't any water...you pay your CAD engineer in India for another couple days of work, you alter your computer controlled plastic extrusion machines and lop the pieces of steel into slightly different shapes - presto - built in unit. It would take about 25 units to recoup the physical plant costs. Mind you there are marketing costs, but the whole point of those is you are going to recoup them in spades by selling more refrigerators, and without having to charge double for them.

But...good for the manufacturers. If they can get away with it, "more power to them" as the saying goes. I think the great thing about built-ins from their point of view is few people probably "go it alone" when purchasing them...they are usually part of a complete kitchen redesign (and/or new construction) which is inherently at least an upper-middle class pursuit. So the exorbitant cost of the units - whether they are actually better in the case of some brands, or just differently shaped, which I'm sure is the case with some brands - pales to the overall cost of completely replacing cabinets and appliances, and paying for labor to install them.

Luxury products have been hit far worse than so called middle class items - Down 37% by some measure.

And since when is Subzero comparable to yachts? Lots of people are feeling poor because of the stock market and real estate market. Maybe the appliance manufacturers haven't noticed yet because the lag time from planning to purchasing is so long.

I guarantee subzero's sales are down 2007 to 2008 with the big drop being 2009.

david - "Luxury products have been hit far worse than so called middle class items - Down 37% by some measure."

dunno about that , Rolls Royce is having the best year in co. history, Gulfstream sales are up so are a few of the yacht building firms.

Live Wire - I think you might be dating yourself, think most around here know what a "Duesy" is?

Harry - I don't think any of the Forbes list is hurting, their total worth may be down ( even significantly) because of the world market's decline and their worth being mostly tied to securities, but hurting??? Come on, every one else's 401 k , IRA, and retirement accounts are down too.

Antss,

I don't think you get it! Since 20% of the rich control 80% of the wealth; if they don't buy - improve their business, buildings, buy equipment, Learjets, hire new employees, expand their businesses in other words; the economy does not grow. They will have the resources to buy pretty much anything like personal appliances; but the truely wealth are very frugal spenders. They need a real good reason to buy an item. Warren Buffet represent this type of individual wealth. These are business people; not Hollywood and professional athletic stars which don't have a clue what is happening in the world and they just throw money for image sake.

Ok Antss - here is a link. This one is 33%. It all depends on what you measure but 33-37% are the numbers I've seen.

Rolls and Gulfstream are a bit different caliber than subzero. I drive a Honda but am shopping subzero. I would equate a subzero to a MB or BMW. Also - the year was fine until September so year sales is a little suspect. BMW 1st half was best year ever - Sep sales down 30%. October was probably worse.

Here is a link that might be useful: Luxury sales down 33%

Harry - I DO get it. Expansion and growth are a rarity in a flat or down ecomnomy, even for the Ultra Wealthy. You must have made a fine professor, as you have macro economics down pat. I DO get it, the net worth of the majority of the world's wealthiest people is down, so is the majority of everyone's. Does this mean they flee to a financial bunker and stop spending? Heck no, some do , just like some of the merely rich do, just like some of the middle class does, and just like the everyone else. However, many are still out there doing things normally some are even bargain buying like never before: I didn't make up Rolls' or Gulfstream's #'s people are buying them! Even in a downturn big co.s are buying too: Delta just gobbled up Northwest and B of A just wrote a mega check for Merrill. Don't let the media persona of Buffet fool you. A few years back all he'd talk about was how flying commercial was the best thing to do and a private airplane was not smart. What's he do a bit later- buy a Gulfstream? No he buys an entire company full of private jets and keeps the largest Gulfstream there is on standby. Same with his home, his modest $200k +/- Omaha house is real enough, but what about his 15 million dollar place in SoCal that you don't hear about??? Same with his sob story about his secretary paying more INCOME tax than he does. That's because she MAKES MORE INCOME which is subject to income tax than he does. Think she pays more dividend income than he does? Who's AMT tax bill do you think is larger at year's end? Don't take the media's cookie cutter soundbites or eye candy as the absolute truth or big picture. Remember W.R. Hearst's contempt for the masses? "They'll belive what I tell them" Same is true in the media business today. He's an anomaly, the very wealthy spend trainloads of $$$ you just don't see or hear about it because the majority value privacy, anonimity, and their time above all else.

DC - while I don't entirely disagree with the premise that the luxury goods sector is down as a whole like everything else, I do wonder about the sources of these stats? Some blogger from Orange Co. doesn't exactly instill confidence in me for the trends of the nation or world as a whole. I gave you 3 examples of rarely debated "luxury" items that have seen rises in sales during a weakening economy. I guess it boils down to what's going to be considered a luxury item and by whom. Does a $1000 Prada purse qualify, or is a luxury handbag more likely a Kelly Bag from Hermes at well into 5 figures these days? I don't think BMW qualifies anymore these days, but they are always included in "luxury car" rankings and catagories by most auto professionals.

Another point I'd like to make that I think few around here get or agree with is that companies making luxury or high end goods don't rush to lower prices at the first signs of a downturn. Some not even after many quarters of neg. results , and some not ever. It defeats the purpose of positioning an item or company as "luxury" or " high end" if you are going to start charging lower prices because sales drop. You either create more demand or a better value proposition or you deal with flat or no growth for a while till you figure it out. Some don't and they fold. Businessmen with any seasoning and experience accept that slaes go up and down just like stock prices and comodity prices. They hope that the broader trend is a rise in the metrics that they use to manage and measure their business. So , don't count on a cut rate deal from Sub Zero , Viking or Meile in the frist part of next year or even at all. Long before they consider lower prices you'll see "incentives" like fridge, oven and cooktop full price DW at 25% off or Viking will throw in a set of their knives when you buy theri range. Miele might extend their warranty another couple of years but I'll bet the farm you won't see a sale from a German firm.

The third paragraph above makes sense. They will be so slow that they will be willing to lose market share, and to let new competitors come in to their territory. Slow as molasses in January.

Today, stores will sell for less.

I have seen visible price drops but I choose not to display them here. Just like 99.9% of the other people signed in.

So, prices are going down, in the retail market, because stores can sell for less, and even when some manufacturers raise their prices they also raise their "incentives" at the same time, so the stores get the benefit of having more budget and margin to play with as they choose.

They can sell you something else at a ridiculous price while respecting their contract with Miele or whoever.

-david

Gulfstream didn't tell you that many of the their buyers simply forfeited their down payment, which will be reflected in the next quarter. Nobody is immune. Stop dreaming.

About 1/3 of Gulfstream's customers were "flipping" the plane contract in 2006, and now the flip is over.

antss you are so on the money. If the luxury guys start dropping pricing, then those who recently bought luxury are going to feel cheated and when the economy turns how are they going to justify being luxury and raising the price.

People were still flipping house circa 2006 too, and aren't today so what? Same with oil futures.........Arbitrage is not a good economic bellweather or business measurement.

Many banks are faltering and some are seeing bad times, while others (that were prudently managed) have stellar balance sheets, money to lend and are selectively acquiring their stupid, slower, less adept bretheren.

True, the majority aren't immune, but bright spots and growth still exsist in a flat/down economy.