Hi Kathie,

Miele came today (they rescheduled from Monday). For the test, we used convection bake at 350oF, and the technician had his own accurate probe thermometer. He verified:

o the preheat 'beep' sounds at the wrong time (~11 minutes after it is turned on).
o the oven reaches usable temperature in ~20 mins, and gets to 349oF (using his probe) at ~30 mins.

These results echo what we found from our Surround Bake 450oF test (preheat complete beeped at around 11 minutes after being switched on), it seemed to switch itself off for 2-3 minutes when it thought it was preheated, then resumed heating, but at a much slower rate. Extrapolating our temperature graph (!!), if the oven had actually continued heating at the preheat rate, it should have been close to ready after ~17 mins, rather than ~23 mins.

This is a problem other customers have reported, but not a large percentage. There is no tested workaround to this at the moment, although it may be possible to switch off the 'preheat done' beep so it doesn't sound at all, so it is at least not misleading (or annoying).

It seems like many other large corporations (!) the message that customers are not happy with this preheat issue is not getting through to Miele headquarters, so the problem is not being addressed.

What I intend to do, is write to Miele National Headquarters in Princeton, NJ, to let them know I am unhappy with:
o the preheat complete beep being wrong.
o the oven taking longer than it otherwise would, to heat to a usable temp.

I suspect if enough customers write to complain, Miele in Germany will decide it is important enough to address.

In the mean time, the oven seems to work, if I let it preheat for ~25 mins first. I do want to put it through its paces to see whether my oven's Autoroast and Convection bake perform as well as some of the other guys' ovens do. I hope so!

:-)

-- Connie

I have been having the same problem and came to the forum to see if anyone else was in the same situation. I have a double Master Chef self-cleaning oven. My ovens are just over a year old. Called Miele within the first 6 months about the low temp after throwing out too much food that did not cook and was inedible. They had me reset the voltage - it was wrong but I continue to have issues. Had a technician out here yesterday. He said my overs were about 25 degrees lower than what they should be. After he looked at my manual he had to call Miele to figure out how to reset the ovens. Apparently with these ovens it is not possible to recalibrate the ovens! Can this be right??? All Miele offered was to preheat the ovens for 45 minutes. I simply am not willing to take this as a solution. Any suggestions out there? Who should I contact? Fortunately I did purchase an extended warranty. But, at this point I think the ovens should be corrected or replaced!

terrilang, I have the same ovens. How long were your ovens on before the tech checked the temp? I had the techs out for the same problem and they asked me to preheat the oven BEFORE they got there. I'm thinking that, of course it was the correct temp by the time they checked it out - the oven had been on for an hour. It's what happens in that first 30 minutes that matters, and frankly I just don't believe the preheat temp readout. The oven just does not feel like 350 or 375etc. (That's a new one... my arm as a thermostat) My roasted veggies are not roasted; they seem baked. Also, I'm unhappy with the broil function. The steaks seem to bake or roast, if you will, rather than broil. I'm not sure where to go with this.

Lucy I would not have done that...that is wrong on their part. They just didn't want to deal with the problem.

I think you both should get new ovens...period. I agree that if the Miele people in Germany were aware of this it would make a difference. Can't you get some numbers from the Miele web site and start contacting? These folks speak English...I would definitely start at the top of the company...this is completely unacceptable. c

With all due respect, I wrote earlier in this thread about the actions that I took in response to a similar problem.--

"Want your problem solved once and for all, try what we did. We had a problem with the Miele Distributor in my area on two separate Miele purchases. We wrote a letter to the President of Miele in Germany (how about that for overkill?) Within one week we received a call from the head of quality control in Princeton (and a letter from German HQ). Problem solved immediately plus a sweetner in the deal thrown in by Miele.
Upon our conversation with this gentleman (sorry don't remember the name) it was clear Miele will not tolerate poor performance regarding their products, service nor distributors. You don't need to write to Germany, just write to the top honcho in Princeton chronicling the problem, the facts, attempts for resolution and the unsatisfactory results. If you go to the top, you get what you want. Good luck"

My problems with the distributor and subsequent on-going performance issues with my DW have all be taken care of with special phone calls from the head of Miele Service in Princeton. He called us twice to understand the problems and sent a repair tech out specially trained. n't know why you don't try this.
Good Luck

You say you wrote to Germany...then you say you talked to someone ...you don't remember who...then you say no need to write Germany...just call Princeton and talk to the head honcho...I hope the posters can get the jist of that and are able to move forward and get a great response like you did. c

I had similar problems which you can research on this site but ultimately did not settle for anything less than a new oven, which BTW, works fine and I am thrilled with.

Miele has a money back guarantee, IIRC it's good within the first year, and for what you spent, if the oven is not meeting expectation, get your money back! There are other good ovens out there - the Gaggenau is one we seriously considered if we had not received satisfaction from Miele.

If enough people get their money back, it's guaranteed Miele in Germany will take notice and ask why. Maybe won't help you but down the road will help others.

Asking for your money back might just be what it takes to get management to sit up and take notice of you and work extra hard to get your issues resolved.

So my advise to you is to pursue as far as you can as these ovens are really awesome when they work properly, then if you are still not happy get a different brand.

Trailrunner,
I read your response to my recent post and feel bad that you think my posts may have been written in somewhat of a vague, cloaked manner. To clarify this issue further, I had my husband find (not easy in his messy file system) the letter we received from Miele Germany and have posted it below to help katheio and anyone else who has gotten the telephone/tech visit run around when trying to get a problem resolved. Thanks to my initial complaint letter I now have two perfectly delievered, installed and correctly adjusted appliances 100% to my satisfaction. Some times you just have to buck the system. Good Luck Again.

Here is a link that might be useful: Response Ltr From Miele Germany

did anyone's repaired or second oven actually come to cooking temperature at the beep?

I submit that no oven is ready for cooking at the first sign of the beep. The beep is the oven telling you that the air temp around the (single) thermometer in the oven is at the set temp. It doesn't just turn off at that point. The oven will continue to get hotter over time, and in the short-term.

The only reasonable option from an engineering perspective is to have the oven *not* beep, even thought the temp at the thermometer is at temp, which would silly. Other options would be to have several thermometers located at various points in the oven, with several heating elements all around the oven, along with radiant heat to heat the side walls. You'd be paying an awful lot for that.

The real solution, to my mind, is for the cook to know and appreciate how ovens work, and know that an oven isn't ready for cooking in 10 or 15 minutes.

Again, if your oven isn't coming to temp in 45 minutes (like the Thermador that we had, and then got rid of), something is wrong. But this concern about the beep seems much ado about nothing to me. Just wait some extra time to get the oven in the condition that's right for you. That might been 15 minutes for brussel sprouts, or 2 hours for pizza.

I agree with Tom. I own a Gaggenau and it has performed flawlessly. It takes 30mins to preheat. That is the nature of the beast. I have an older Jennair which takes 30minutes to stabilize at whatever temperature it wants. No matter what you get, it will take 30minutes to preheat perfectly.

Good luck!

I am having the same problems with my new master chef double ovens (3 months old). I can not get the temperature hot enough or stable enough regardless of the preheat. I can appreciate that the preheat takes longer then the beep indicates which is annoying, but I can live with it. It is the instability and inaccurate temp readings that are completely unacceptable.

I have had new ovens within the last 5 years for a previous house remodel and readjusted to the ovens (dacor) immediately. I am not a gourmet chef, but I do know how to cook. The turkey at Thanksgiving was terrible. Used the probe and the oven indicated finished WAY too soon--still ugly white, not evenly browned. (Yes, I checked the probe position.) I assumed I needed to adjust to my new oven and didn't blame the ovens that time.

Then the Christmas cookies took WAAAAY too long to cook and the Beef Tenderloin at Christmas came out ugly gray and undercooked. No nice searing going on for sure!! Had to pan sear the slices to even serve it--people already at the table! Lava cakes were undercooked, but I overlooked that since lava cakes are suppose to be "wet" inside--but I only ate the outside of mine. Even the brownies are a gooey mess inside.

The tech "reset" my oven over the phone (but it was set at correct voltage) and gave the same responses you all seem to be getting--ie wait longer for preheat. It's not the preheat I'm frustrated with (I've even tried preheating for over an hour to see if it would hold temperature.) Tried another Tenderloin this weekend with witness to verify I'm not crazy and sure enough--same problem. Oven preheated 1 hour at 500--(Barefoot Contessa recipe) but beef in quickly!! (room temperature)--temperature dropped to 425 after 7 minutes, beef was gray--not browned. Tried to adjust by raising temp to 525 to see if it would pull the temp up--which it did and browned the beef--but who wants to stand in front of an oven and WATCH the meal cook? VERY unhappy with ovens!! Tech coming out tomorrow to "verify" temp. Will post again after that.

I've never joined a forum before, but I was so happy to find your posts that I decided I'd join too so the next unhappy Miele oven user can find solace!!

IF THE INSTALLERS DIDN'T RESET YOUR VOLTAGE SETTING FROM FACTORY THEN THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM. WE HAD SAME PROBLEM AND MIELE REP WALKED US THROUGH IT IN JUST MINUTES. YOU JUST HAVE TO PUSH A FEW DIGITAL BUTTONS. IT WAS AROUND 50 DEGREES OFF. INSTALLERS SHOULD DO THIS BUT SOME DON'T. OURS IS WORKING FINE NOW. THE FACTORY SETTING IS WRONG FOR UNITED STATES.

monaw - why don't you take some time to read BEFORE YOU START SHOUTING drivel. These folks have had their ovens reset from 208 to 220 volts. That's what susan's 4th paragraph starts with.

People are still having problems with these ovens even after the voltage change. Oh' and the "factory" setting is not wrong if you live in a highrise that has an elevator !

Do some homework before you shout out.

I have to say I am having better luck with baking. I've been using intensive heat for pies and quiche,and convection for cookies, brownies, rolls, and cakes. I have not been reducing the temperature. The one thing that I've been doing that is a shift from my previous oven, is that I place the item to be baked slightly lower than the center rack. I do find that I have to rotate the trays if I am baking several at a time which is a disappointment.

This thread really *scares* me. We are at the design stage of a kitchen remodel and were all set to go with Miele appliances. I'll keep all your experiences in mind and ask a lot of uestions about service and warranties -- as I also research other brands. I am the designated baker in my circle of friends and would hate to lose my position due to an unreliable (and expensive) oven.

Folly

Hi folly grows, please don't be scared. The Miele is a Great Name, and I'll tell you that they stand behind their products. We just got our new Miele Wall Oven last week, I'm very happy with the oven, no problems with the temperature and no problems with the preheating. My husband sells these Wall Ovens, and he gets Thankyou cards from his customers, and some ladies
bring in their baked cookies for the guys, he used to bring some home to me, now I can do my own cookies in my new oven, and take them down to the guys, no more burned cookies in the corners. I have to tell you that there is the odd lemon, but they will replace the oven for you like they did for loves2cook4six. So please keep Miele on your list for your new kitchen.

lucypwd,

I've been using convection bake, and to be honest, I'm not really impressed. I have a single tray (no sides) with two biscotti loaves. I follow the directions and put the tray on the bottom rack. I have tried inserting the tray with the loaves parallel and pointing to the convection fan, and also the other way (crosswise). Both times one biscotti loaf was a lot browner and better cooked than the other. The first time I mistakenly left the grease filter in front of the fan, the second test I removed it. Same result. Both times the fan is rotating. So far, not really impressed with convection. I am still in contact with the support tech and will ask him about it.

tommy275 and homepro,

The miele manual says the oven is at temperature when it beeps, when it is not the case. It was my expectation that the manual should work as you expect it to, especially if the manual agrees.

When the tech came out, he explained the oven doesn't use a thermometer sensor during preheat!!! Instead it used a software algorithm to work out when to stop the 'preheat' phase. Putting it simply, there is a bug in their software. This bug means the oven stops 'preheating' too early. It then waits for two minutes or so, then the oven detects its not hot enough, and resumes heating at a much slower pace. So, in my specific test, it takes longer than it should to reach temp (23 mins instead of 16).

I am sure you are both correct that in order to have a perfectly preheated oven it should take 30 minutes. Unless there is a very finicky recipe, it should be at a 'usable' temp sooner than that (15 mins?).

I am just disappointed that such a great brand has an obvious (probably simple to rectify) software defect that makes its preheat slower than it should be.

Maybe my oven is a dud, or there were a batch of them that were duds, but the Miele rep knew of this problem, so it seems these few incidents are not isolated.

Miele Germany and Miele Princeton will both be getting feedback!

I really don't care about the preheating, in that I don't mind waiting the 20 - 30 minutes; I just want the oven to perform like a champ after that. I don't want to rotate cookie sheets, or remove a half baked pan of brownies. I want the broiler to broil and the probe to work. I do think there is a slight learning curve. I am becoming much happier as I experiment. I like the delay cook - it is simple to use. I don't understand why they even have a standard bake option as it seems completely useless. I love the perfect clean pans.

Forgive me for repeating but I was told by Miele, prior to purchase, to let the oven preheat for 30 minutes. I don't sell anything.

You have any pix of the unevenly browned biscotti? Also, what type of baking sheets are you using?

Last week the sales rep came out and tried to "explain" the problems--but not very effectively. Then they sent a "tech" out to verify the temp. He was so nice, but came without the "proper" therm but said they "seemed" within 10-15 degree of accuracy!!

I continued to try to test the ovens--used master chef to cook pizza--no big deal. Then used self clean and the next time I tried to use the oven--NO HEAT! My sales rep said that it could be a "simple" problem like a switch issue .... but if I can't count on my ovens to heat properly then it isn't a simple problem.

Cooking in only my bottom oven now. (The sales rep told me even BMW has a service dept.--but if you have to have your BMW serviced when it is brand new--doesn't that make it a lemon?)

Most likely pulling these ovens out and getting a new one--but not sticking with Miele. Any suggestions?

Thanks!!

Sounds like they need to replace your oven completely as clearly something is wrong. I would get on the phone to Princeton -- ask for Paul.

If they will replace, I would give them another chance because a brand switch out can require carpentry to make a new oven fit (ask me how I know).

If I recall correctly, the two that are close in size to the cut out opening are Wolf and GE. But before I went there I'd read all the threads on those two. No brand is issue free, alas.

Still worried here. Should be taking delivery soon of a Miele 30" oven and a Miele 36" induction cooktop. I called today to see if I could cancel order and switch to Wolf. (Which I had originally considered along with the Miele.) They said I could, but with a restocking fee which would be nearly $700. I am staying with Miele and hoping for the best. It's funny that when I made my decision, I went over GardenWeb for hours researching the two. It wasn't longer than 3 weeks after I placed my order than the dreaded "Miele Oven - baking problem" thread raised its ugly head. I've never owned a Miele product and had really looked forward to them and now I'm just a little freaked out, especially since they are so darn expensive. I've owned a 48" AG Wolf in the past and did need a replacement range after one year, otherwise I was pretty happy with it. Of course that range was pretty simple compared to either the Wolf or the Miele wall ovens.

Thanks for reading and responding--not sure if I should replace my broken Miele with a new Miele or switch. Have any of you replaced/fixed your Miele and found a vast improvement? I'm okay with a learning curve, but the rep said I may need new cookie sheets, roasting pans etc.. I don't like that I have to buy special cooking equipment for this oven in order for it to cook well. It just seems to be too temperamental.

Also, I have been unsuccessful at getting my vegetables to roast with a good char to them. They seem to almost just steam/bake--and that is at 450 to 500 degrees convection roast and surround roast. I am willing to learn the specifics of this oven, but so far I am totally unhappy with the results. I do not want to have to babysit my food. (Oh, and having BOTH ovens in working order would be nice also!)

Thanks so much for all of your posts--they are really helpful.

We went with replacement and I must say it was like chalk and cheese. Our new ovens work perfectly. I'll clarify that by saying they work 1000 times better then the original GE and 500X better then the first ones installed.

I do get a good char on my roasted veges and I know trailrunner did too. I think she has veggie pics on a thread somewhere on the kitchen forum.

I NEVER use plain bake or roast mode. I don't rotate cookie sheets. I did not buy any new stuff (ok I didn't buy any new stuff because the old didn't work but I did replace some sheet trays that were just too yucky for words).

I do find that despite conventional wisdom that convection ovens require either a 25% time reduction or a 25 degree temperature reduction that my results are best when I adjust neither the time NOR the temperature.

And once again, Miele has a money back guarantee. Not happy - switch! I've heard the Gaggenau side opening ovens are fantastic and honestly I did look at them but didn't want to spend any more money modifying the cabinet. In that respect I am thrilled I pushed for and got a replacement.

Maybe the same oven is going around. You guys should post your serial numbers. I unfortunately no longer have that info.

I would be curious to hear from those with the problems if, perhaps, they are from the same mfr. date range. Loves2cook 4six, how old is your oven?

Something is wrong, wrong, wrong. It will be easier to replace the same brand since the cut out in the oven cabinet is rather precise. Then if you're still unhappy you can switch.

Are you sure you have the vent cut out in the base of the cabinet properly? Do you know what I'm talking about? It's the air intake and it's crucial.

Call the service line and be insistent. Whomever came out to look at your ovens sounds lame. I had that happen to me before the dishwasher drying got resolved by programming over the phone. The guy did nothing and told me that the problem was that some appliances just don't work in certain houses. You can guess my reaction to that.

The thing about baking pans is a load of bunk. I use ancient ones and they work great in the oven (the older the better as far as I'm concerned).

To the poster who ordered, stay steady. Most of us haven't had these issues and we hope you won't either. Every brand has issues. Most of us are very happy.

These are veggies were cooked on Convection Roast, probably 400-425. I wasn't going for char but there is some on the Brussels sprouts down in front. They had crisp edges and were cooked in a pan that I've had at least since 1980.

I spoke with my rep and he said Miele's guarantee is only for dishwashers and washer/dryers. He was not that happy that I inquired about it either. He did say that he would pull my oven and give my kitchen designer the money back if that is what I wanted--but honestly, he was not very professional about it. My intention was not to be a jerk and get something for free. Obviously no one wants to put in a new kitchen and then deal with service reps and technicians. At this point I'm disappointed enough with his attitude to switch, but I don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face!

My kitchen designer thinks the Thermador will fit the hole and is totally willing to help me make the switch if that is what I want. I just don't want to jump ship if a properly working Miele really is what I hoped it would be. Difficult to tell at this point. It's difficult to tell if it is my "bad" oven, or if, in addition to currently not functioning, it is also just too temperamental in design.

It was nice to see the roasted vegetables. I'm going to try AGAIN to get mine to char (I love roasted veggies). Maybe I will try intensive bake? I hate this guessing game--it's what makes me feel like I am babysitting my food. I would have thought roasted vegetables could be roasted on ROAST? I feel like I am "adjusting" every recipe I cook--sometimes in the middle of the cooking process. This is not my first kitchen remodel (ie I've had new ovens before) and I don't remember feeling this frustrated. I thought I was buying the engineering marvel--but maybe it is too "souped" up for its own good?

I really appreciate the feedback from all of you--it's helpful to see how other people are dealing with this oven.

So the rep isn't happy. Point is you're not happy.

Would recommend trying autoroast for the veg.

baver, that is an interesting thought about the mfg date. My original oven was installed in Feb of 07 and replaced in Jan-Feb 08 because of a broken hinge problem. Although they only found that when they came to check out my complaint of slow, slow, slow, baking.

The new oven is exacty the same and my complaints were listed in my other posts. I haven't done anything about it as far as writing to Miele because I am testing different modes for different things. I am not a baking expert like trailrunner but I do enjoy baking. I was checking out the Master Chef modes recently...did you all notice that the MC mode for cookies is convection 325 degrees and that you cannot change the temp when using MC. I found most of my cookie recipes that I did for Christmas required at least 350. So the MC would do me no good.

I haven't tried roasted veggies but I do like the searing feature. I do have a question though on that one. The manual says something like "the oven will sear at a higher temp and then drop to the preset temp when searing is done" Does anyone know how high is HIGH? if I preset for a 350 roasting,does that mean the oven will go anywhere from 351 up and then drop down? I keep my oven light on so I can watch things without opening the door and I have to say the Searing does not seem to be taking place at 400+ degrees which I would think it should be. If I set the oven myself to sear, that is what I would probably use.

I did find that intensive bake is better for casseroles instead of convection bake. When I've used CB, the center barely gets hot in the stated time of the recipe and in genral the things takes longer to even begin to bubble around the edges.

I'm thinking, besides a learning curve, perhaps there is a breaking in period for these ovens.

I'm still not able to bake three sheets of cookes at once and not rotate. I do use sheets with no sides on them.

Oh, and I did not replace any of my cookware. No one ever suggested that to ME.

I've been really interested to read all these comments. Keep them coming.

Kathie OP

If you have an issue that questions the temp then have the Tech prove to you that the temp is correct.

We have purchased/installed in July 2008. Wife has cooked up to 3 muffin trays at one time and they all came out evenly and cooked.

I do plan to get a oven Thermometer to do my own checks just to make sure. We use auto roast on chickens and they come out seared, juicy and quickly. Remember to check the manual to see what modes are recommended for each type of cooking.

We have about 6 more modes compared to a regular oven so a learning curve should be expected. If I did not want the modes I would purchsed a different oven.

Bottom line make the tech prove to you that the temp and modes are working. The troubleshooting of all the electronics can not be done by turning the light on and just looking inside. Surely the tech can review what is happening no different than a new car repair guy needs a code reader to troubleshoot.

My original ovens were installed in Nov of 2007 and replaced in March 2008

I went to the Miele website and was SHOCKED, just shocked, that the warranty information was so hard to find. Of course you can't go by what I found or didn't find, but it seems like the dishwashers and washer dryers now come standard with a 5 yr warranty. Other appliances, incl the ovens have one year. Their new website also has no reference to the money back guarantee. I really hope that this was an oversight and that this information has remained the same BUT if you really need to know, call them and ask for the warranty information in writing.

Isn't it sort of odd that companies selling such high end products like these have not bestirred themselves to come up with some sort of standardized oven test products they could simply ship out to you for oven checking of complaints? A half dozen batch of Wi-Fi robot mini pizza clones or whatever to scatter on the oven racks with a program designed to test an oven every which way.

Right now it sounds like reps and techs are sent out to see if they can BS complaints and keep costs down. As to the great guys at HQ who finally make things right once you fight your way through the fog, you may be talking to the same person who keeps the reps and techs on a very short leash!

I have a before and after pic. I use convec roast on 425 for 35-40 min. Vegs are tossed in a small amount of EVOO --this is important...too much oil and they stew not roast. I also use a splash of balsamic vinegar and a good splash of honey. Also salt and pepper. Immediately place in oven...otherwise juice runs from vegs. I use Pam sprayed parchment paper, and scrape all the drippings off at the end to use as the dressing on the vegs. I also usually cut everything into 2" squares but didn't for these pics. If I can answer any questions I will be glad to. Sounds like you have gotten good advice here so far.

{{gwi:600110}}

{{gwi:600111}}

That's what I'm talking about!! Thanks for posting the picture of the veggies--and the method. I really believe my ovens temps are off (particularly now that one won't even heat at all!). I'm going to try again at 425 CR and see what happens. I've roasted veggies a lot -- now that I can follow your method in these ovens, let's see what happens. Thank you!

I'm going to try cooking doubles; in that I'm going to make 2 of the same thing and bake, roast, surround etc in both ovens at the same time and see if the results are the same.

Also I think I should run the self clean and see how the oven functions after that. Do you think it would be a problem to run the clean cycle in a relatively clean oven??

Also, just as an observation, I've been having trouble getting the miele service people to authorize service on my various problems. The service tech that comes to the house is very helpful, but getting past the miele gatekeeper is a problem and some of them have been down right rude. Yesterday I had my husband call as he has an issue with our fridge/freezer. Apparently they were as nice as could be and set up a service call immediately. Go figure - he's calling from now on.............

susan please let us know how it does.

Lucy I HATE that but you know I make DH do it all the time...sheesh, and this is 2009. c

susan, I ran my self clean function on a semi clean oven because I had a puddle of burnt something. I couldn't get it off using just soap and water so I did the self clean. It was excellent and didn't seem to harm anything that wasn't dirty. As a matter of fact, the oven seems to be working better. Maybe the high heat kicked it into gear! I did the two oven test with cookies when the techs were here but it was one on reg. bake and one on CB. CB won!

trailrunner, I'm curious about your pizza baking at 500 degrees and you seem to do it often. I've never used an oven that hot except in the cleaning mode. Do your cabinets get really hot? One of the reasons we remodeled our kitchen was because we had a white kitchen before and from self cleaning the GE Profile oven, the cabinet above it turned yellow. So I am very hesitant to use the self clean very often. However, I see a major difference with the Miele in that the vent is on the bottom of the ovens instead of at the top like the GE. That is a good thing.

I let my DH handle the controversial issues as well. I really hate controversy and I am no good at it. I'm easily talked down. But I can get him riled up enough to get the problem solved.

I ran the clean cycle because the 1st rep went on and on about how it's made to run frequently . . . blah blah. I am not going to run the lower oven clean cycle because I don't want to be totally without ovens. But whether the oven is clean or not shouldn't be an issue. BTW it was they 2nd time I ran the cycle that made it quit. Still not sure whether I am going to switch brands or take my chance on another Miele. Thermadors have serious problems also--if you can believe the blogs....which I happen to appreciate! Fortunately my kitchen designer is the interface with the Miele people and he is a really nice guy--I've remodeled 2 kitchens with his company so I think he will sincerely stand by me on this issue. Let's hope anyway. Thanks again for the feedback.

BTW I just cooked a tenderloin on Masterchef--probe bell rang when it was at 155 and took it out and used my Williams sonoma probe (it didn't look done and didn't have a good sear either!!) and sure enough, the WS probe registered 131--I'm hating these ovens right now. I know the temp will rise for a bit--but not 24 more degrees. This is my 3rd tenderloin trial--think they will reimburse me? LOL!

kathie there is no heat exchange outside of the oven cabinet ever. You would never know they were at 500 if you didn't look at the readout. The air that blows at the bottom is just barely warm even on 500.

I have Perfect Clean so no self clean. I use a thick layer of baking soda and place a dry cloth over it. Then you pour a small amount of boiling water on top of the cloth. Just enough to saturate the cloth. When you return hours later all of the black residue will be gone. This works whether you have self clean or perfect clean.

As far as the temp goes your self clean gets to hundreds of degrees hotter than 500. All artisan breads and pizzas are baked at 500 -550. I wish the oven went to 550. Only on maxi broil.

Susan I am sorry. I don't blame you for being angry. I would ask for a whole new Miele oven with the assurance that it had 30 days or out it goes. I don't know whatelse to suggest. c

Just my 2 Cents about the tenderloin trials. While this is not an excuse, I read, and was told by the Miele Home Ec Director in Princeton that the probe is really meant for only large pieces of meat and the proble must go all the way in. The tenderloin that they used at the Miele cooking class I went to was a large one, and they used the auto roast setting not MC.

Momtomom--thanks for the heads up on the probe--at least that disclosure, while annoying, helps explain. These ovens MIGHT be great ovens, but with all the required "tweaks" they are definitely not the ovens I thought I was paying for.

At the end of the day, since we all have very similar complaints, are any of you happy you stuck with these ovens? Again, thanks for all your insights and comments--it's really helpful.

trailrunner, just a clarification.

maxbroil goes to 575. surround roast goes to 550. at least on mine. but i wish it went to 600!

when making pizza i use a combination of those two settings to get the most heat possible from the oven.

Susansos, I for one am happy I stuck with my Miele ovens and I'm happy with how they work. I made muffins in silicone trays yesterday and forgot to take a picture. It was one tray with the top of the pan more or less in the center of the oven. Baked at 400 for 2o min on convection bake. Every muffin was perfect. No obvious hot or cold spots. This is the first recipe I have ever made that actually took less time on convection then the recipe called for on regular bake. Good thing I was watching them :)

Tommy, how do you combine settings? One thing I wish, and maybe can be done if I can program a favorite, is to start at one temp and have the oven change settings in the middle for finishing.

I did a long post over a year ago that explained how these electric ovens were different and why they were worth it to me. I didn't keep a copy but will try to reprise it here.

When I had to switch out my oven, I wanted something that moved it tech-forward so to speak. For the past 20 years we had conventional heat -- roast, bake etc from a single heat source in the bottom of the oven. Then convection via a fan in back was added. Now, many ovens have both and you can use either mode. In a high end oven like the Wolf, there are two fans that are said to move the heat more evenly through the cavity. But again, you have a single, bottom heat source with/without convection.

At the other extreme you have the Turbochef which combines high speed convection though multiple openinings in the bottom of the oven (vs a fan in back) with microwave plus the broiler element -- all working at the same time. Also, there is a different cooking system which is food-driven rather than cooking driven. F.ex. your setting for rolled boneless leg of lamb would be something like lamb, leg, boneless and then the oven cooks it automatically and tells you how long that will take. I made a video of biscuits baking in the Turbochef and it's fascinating to see how it works.

In between -- which is where the Miele and other so-called European convection ovens fall plus some Brit range ovens like Brittania and Rangemaster) -- you have conventional heat from the bottom and/or convection plus the ability to combine one or more with heat from the top broiler element. So you have a choice of 1 or 2 heat sources with or without convection. Those are the cooking-driven settings. F.ex. with Auto Roast, if you notice the broiler element comes on in combo with the convection and bottom heating to do the searing.

Plus Miele has Masterchef settings -- a whole system of food-driven cooking choices. You can use either system.

I don't use MC often as I usually want more control.

If you just want a high end oven that has more a conventional/convection system then go for something like the Wolf.

I switched out to the Miele incurring additional cost for the oven itself and for carpentry in the cabinet after 2 years in oven h*ll. I was insistent on an oven that vented at the bottom (not at the top where exhaust heats the electronics), one that could withstand power outages, gave me digital readouts, had a great probe, rotisserie and was more advanced in the way it handles heat settings. I decided against self-clean because I have semi-gloss painted cabinets. I also feel the Perfect Clean is greener but that's a personal choice.

I'm an oven cook. I use it far more than the cooktop. When I make the no-knead bread baked in the Le Creuset pot, that pot lid is so hot from being preheated on surround that it burned a wooden cutting board when I put it down. I throw (literally) the bread in the pot and it comes out perfect and cooks 10 minutes faster than the recipe.

I can load up that oven with the additional racks while one thing is cooking and set the second timer for something else. The probe (in a whole tenderloin/filet I insert in lengthwise smack in the center of the thickest end) and cook on autoroast. It is amazingly delicious (I marinate it overnight in Cognac and shallots) and comes out perfectly medium rare at 140.

I don't see switching out a workhorse like that which is so versatile oven for something that does less but it's the oven I wanted. If may not be the one someone else wants/needs and these days, price matters and this is not the only good oven on the market. There are other great ovens without the complexities.

But I'd sure want to have it functioning perfectly before making a decision to get rid of it.

loves2cook4six,

when I say I combine the settings, I basically have two favorites set up. "pizza1" and "pizza2". my goal is to cook pizza in the hottest oven possible.

i start with pizza1, with a stone on the bottom of the oven. pizza1 is, iirc, surround roast at 550. i preheat on this setting for over an hour. i also have a stone on the top rack. i start the pizza on the bottom stone on pizza1, and then right before it's done, after about 3 minutes, i hit pizza2, which is maxibroil on 575, and then i put the pizza on the top stone, under the broiler element.

Susansos, I for one am happy I stuck with my Miele ovens and I'm happy with how they work. I made muffins in silicone trays yesterday and forgot to take a picture. It was one tray with the top of the pan more or less in the center of the oven. Baked at 400 for 2o min on convection bake. Every muffin was perfect. No obvious hot or cold spots. This is the first recipe I have ever made that actually took less time on convection then the recipe called for on regular bake. Good thing I was watching them :)

Tommy, how do you combine settings? One thing I wish, and maybe can be done if I can program a favorite, is to start at one temp and have the oven change settings in the middle for finishing.

It's been a year since this thread started but I have owned a Miele Masterchef for 4 years and interestingly over the last 3 months, it will read at temp when it is not, even if you keep it on for 30 mins it will not be at the proper temp by an oven thermometer or by the way food is supposed to cook. I only know this should not be the case because it was never this way before. It now consistently is about 25-50 degrees below what it should be. Of course, I am out of my extended warranty.

I have tested my Miele Masterchef wall oven and whether the temp is right depends on the mode. This has been noted elsewhere on the web. The most accurate seem to be intensive bake (only 5 degrees high in my case) and surround bake (dead on as long as you use the recommended bottom or second to bottom shelf - otherwise temps will be too high). The other modes ran about 20 to 25 degrees (F) cool. This was tested at 375 with a lab calibrated bulb thermometer. Note that regular department store type oven thermometers (aka bi-metal type) are often inaccurate so will need to be checked themselves before you use them to draw any conclusions about your oven.