Nancy bee--I did not read about that. I can't imagine why any hospital nurse or anyone taking care of patients would not want to take a flu shot unless they had an allergy to eggs or previous allergic reaction.

The year I got the flu...It was not required and I had simply procrastinated in getting my vaccine.

I was sick for a good 3 weeks or more.

One of my best friends has the flu right now. Her foolish Dr. Gave her a broad spectrum antibiotic and now she has severe thrush. So on top of the flu, she can't eat.

I got the flu shot this year and so did DH and baby. The rest of the kids have an appt for it tomorrow morning.

I am doing so because my infant daughter got pertussis this summer, as many of you may remember, and she was not vaccinated for it. HOWEVER, from what I have read since then, the strain that was around this summer was NOT "covered" by the vaccine, which explains why my friend and her children all got it. This does not make me feel better! Also, you can be vaccinated and pass it on, so while I still tell others to get the DTaP, the "cocooning" idea has been found to be ineffective. Very scary. If you are at all sick . . . stay away from infants. Your vaccine may not help. :(

I also heard that some hospitals in the area are closed because of too many patients. But, I also understand that they are telling people that if they vomit/can't keep things down for one day, they should go to the ER. ?? What ?? Most people can survive stomach flu/whatever virus without an ER trip or hospitalization.

I only got the flu shot one other year. And I got the flu. So, I am doing the shots just in case, but I am not sold on them.

Here is a link that might be useful: Australia Ends Vaccine Cocooning Program

I'm so glad I got a flu shot this year after hearing about the outbreak. I caught H1N1 four years ago and thought I was a goner. Couldn't even drink water. Never want to go through that again or pass it on to someone else.

My Dr. says there is a whooping cough outbreak in my area and wants me to get the vaccine. I'm calling for an appointment today.

The idea of not getting immunized for the flu or whatever virus or disease that can be prevented just seems selfish. I feel for those without health insurance. The whooping cough vaccine is $75 without insurance. Not small change for many.

I so believe in flu shots. My whole family got the flu one Christmas, and I ended up with a severe case of bronchitis which basically destroyed my last term of college. It was six months before I felt vaguely human again, and for many years after, I could develop bronchitis at the drop of a hat.

Also (and I think I may get yelled at for this), why do millions of people refuse to get flu shots because they are worried about what's in them, but they are perfectly happy to benefit from the rest of what science and medicine has to offer? They fly in airplanes, they take prescription drugs, they have heart surgeries. All these things were tested using the scientific method. So are flu shots. It's the same science. This is not to say that medicine/science doesn't mess up occasionally--tests can be wrong; humans are fallible; corporations are greedy. But there is no evidence that puts flu shots in this camp. None.

I'm afraid to check back to see the posts in response. But I feel so strongly about this that I posted anyway. I feel that we all have a civic duty to protect those extremely compromised immune systems, and infants who can't be inoculated.

Xantippe, I am with you. And don't get me started on the anti vaccination population...

xantippe I'm glad to see someone bring up this point. I think their is a lot of misunderstanding of the vaccine and the reason for the need to be vaccinated. For those who don't have time or just didn't get around to it, you might want to do a search on herd immunity and understand why it is so important to all of us. I would guess that there aren't very many of us who don't know (and care about) someone with a comprised immune system or an infant that it could be fatal for.
The vaccine is not meant to (and can't) cover every flu that could happen, it's just the CDC's best educated guess as to what flu is apt to attack each year. And you can't get the same flu that is in the vaccine from the vaccine; it is a killed virus.

Also (and I think I may get yelled at for this), why do millions of people refuse to get flu shots because they are worried about what's in them, but they are perfectly happy to benefit from the rest of what science and medicine has to offer? They fly in airplanes, they take prescription drugs, they have heart surgeries. All these things were tested using the scientific method. So are flu shots. It's the same science. This is not to say that medicine/science doesn't mess up occasionally--tests can be wrong; humans are fallible; corporations are greedy. But there is no evidence that puts flu shots in this camp. None.

I am in complete agreement so I reposted!!

I believe in the flu vaccine for myself, but I understand when people make reasoned decisions not to get the flu shot. A generally healthy person is statistically unlikely to get the flu, and if he or she does, he is unlikely to die from it. They look at the statistics and know the odds are on their side.

And I believe that the people who make the reasoned decision not to get vaccinated then take actions to keep their risk low. My sister never gets a flu shot and has never had the flu. But she has always led a quiet, somewhat isolated, life. She's very germ conscious - absurdly so at times, IMO. But her system works for her. Is one of us better off than the other? Only time will tell.

There is a belief that all vaccines compromise the body's natural immunity, and that naturally-acquired immunity is better than vaccine immunity. When H1N1 was prevalent, it hit young people. Most old people had a natural immunity to it.

And I have heard that there was a study that showed that of the people who got H1N1 flu, more of them had gotten the regular flu shot than not. And some have extrapolated that the regular flu shot weakened people and made them more vulnerable to H1N1. I see flaws in that logic, but nevertheless . . .

IMO, nurses in a hospital should be required to get the shot if for no other reason than the potential liability to the hospital since you can pass on the flu before your symptoms begin.

Xantippe & Terriks-

That paragraph should be stapled to everyone's forehead I think!!

From History.com, there's a concise story about the horrible worldwide 1918 flu....
IMO- Here's the most important sentence:

>>> Almost 90 years later, in 2008, researchers announced they�d discovered what made the 1918 flu so deadly: A group of three genes enabled the virus to weaken a victim�s bronchial tubes and lungs and clear the way for bacterial pneumonia. Yes- Science/Medicine have saved our a$$es for the most part since then. As we ALL know (or SHOULD know...) however, there may come a mutation like that again.
* Older people and/or people who've gotten flu-shots may fare MUCH better than the whiny "I don't think I need it" crowd.
* A No-shot OPINION isn't gonna help you one bit if the right kind of factors come together! A "Perfect-Storm" of flu-DNA I mean....
* By then it'll be too late.
* It's only a SHOT for Pete's sake!

>>> Did anyone have immunity to Polio?!

Faron

I've never had a flu shot and I don't get them for the kids either. For some background, I was a Bio/Chem major and attended Vet School (decided it wasn't right for me and got an MBA instead). We were all vaccinated for major illnesses, but I don't agree we need the flu shots.

No one in the house has ever had the flu. I try to limit OTC drugs and antibiotics. I choose to limit what medicine my family ingests or gets vaccinated with. I have a science background, so it isn't an uneducated or selfish choice.

Faron--you mentioned the 1918 flu. Just a tidbit. My mother was born in 1926.

She had a sister she never met named Pearl. She died in 1918 of the flu.

Look around the old cemeterys. Amazing how many tiny stones there are from 1918.

Scary to think that it could happen again.

A good book on the subject is The Great Influenza by John Barry

My Daughter got the flu over Christmas vacation. She had just returned from Budapest and didnt get the vaccine. My sister got it a week later. I'm refusing to get it. Think that'll help? We all spend weekends together so I've definitely been exposed. I did get the vaccine though.

I've always worked as a waitress or with the public in some capacity and I think I have a pretty strong immune system because of it. I only ever had the flu once and I'll never forget how awful it was. DD was 2 and we were both so very sick, it was December and it took weeks for her to get to all her Christmas presents.

This outbreak has me a little nervous. I work at a community health center in a per diet capacity and I'm really glad they haven't needed me this past couple weeks.

BethP.

I've never had a flu shot and never intend to get one. Guess I figure I have to die from something. If it's the flu, it's the flu. But it's not going to be from a flu shot.

RL-
My DW's Mom was born in 1918.
Scary to think if she'd been born a yr. or 2 earlier...

Chispa-
A virus doesn't CARE what education-level you have, or your attitudes/beliefs about family care. You've only been lucky. Simple as that.
When organizations like the NIH, CDC, WHO,...ad-infinitum....STRONGLY advise people to get the shot, I tend to listen. They know a HELL of lot more than I do. Don't let personal pride fog too much of your judgement.

Again-
A virus DOESN'T CARE. Period.

Faron

Chispa, Geez Louise woman, you are over-educated & way too smart...lol!

Olychick, that makes sense. Also, your state is not one of the ones with ultra high numbers of flu incidents. But I hear what you are saying about choice, regardless!

I got my flu shot just this past Tuesday! Takes 2 weeks for it to build immunity, so I could still get the flu. ( I feel I am tempting fate to even post on this thread, lol!).

The first & last time I got the flu shot was 2009. I didn't return in following years because the injection site was so sore for me. (I'm such a frail & fragile flower!). It was this time too, but the pain gradually fades. I wish I'd gone in sooner, but I guess late is better than not at all. I live in a state with high numbers of flu reported.

I'm in MN and we have had quite a few deaths from the flu. What the media is saying is that the flu shot is only 60% effective in preventing the flu. Maybe that's a good match but I was surprised its not more effective than that. I've never gotten a flu shot and haven't yet had the flu. I'm sure if I ever get the flu I'll never go without getting the shot again.

I read this today:

"Those of us with gray hair have seen worse," said Dr. William Schaffner, a flu expert at Vanderbilt University in Nashville.

The evidence so far points to a moderate season, Schaffner and others say. It looks bad in part because last year was unusually mild and because the main strain of influenza circulating this year tends to make people sicker and really lay them low.

Also, the flu's early arrival coincided with spikes in a variety of other viruses, including a childhood malady that mimics flu and a new norovirus that causes vomiting and diarrhea, or what is commonly known as "stomach flu." So what people are calling the flu may, in fact, be something else.

"There may be more of an overlap than we normally see," said Dr. Joseph Bresee, who tracks the flu for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Most people don't undergo lab tests to confirm flu, and the symptoms are so similar that it can be hard to distinguish flu from other viruses, or even a cold. Over the holidays, 250 people were sickened at a Mormon missionary training center in Utah, but the culprit turned out to be a norovirus, not the flu.

Flu is a major contributor, though, to what's going on.

That's comforting, Graywings.

Gibby, yes, thought it would be 100% protective, or at least close! My next door neighbor got a bad case of the flu last month when visiting another state. She already had the flu shot weeks prior to contracting this flu, which her doc said was a very aggressive strain. So, it's hit or miss, shot or not!

xantippe - Also (and I think I may get yelled at for this), why do millions of people refuse to get flu shots because they are worried about what's in them, but they are perfectly happy to benefit from the rest of what science and medicine has to offer? They fly in airplanes, they take prescription drugs, they have heart surgeries. All these things were tested using the scientific method. So are flu shots. It's the same science. This is not to say that medicine/science doesn't mess up occasionally--tests can be wrong; humans are fallible; corporations are greedy. But there is no evidence that puts flu shots in this camp. None.

I'm afraid to check back to see the posts in response. But I feel so strongly about this that I posted anyway. I feel that we all have a civic duty to protect those extremely compromised immune systems, and infants who can't be inoculated.

Why post what you did if you are you afraid to check back? Just like it's your right to get the flu shot; it's my right to not get one. I really don't appreciate your comment; whoever you are. I don't need to feel attacked over my right to not want to get vaccinations I do not need. It's also my right to choose what I put in my body; whether it's food or medications. Not that it's any of your business; but I now have a medication allergy where my throat closes which I never had until 2010. So no; I'm not going to chance even getting a flu vaccine in case that will close my throat.

You better hope you don't find yourself in my shoes one day & feel like your being attacked on a message board

Golddust Xantippe, I am with you. And don't get me started on the anti vaccination population...

Vaccinations are different then a flu shot. Both of my kids have had their vaccines. What's interesting is the amount of vaccines they have now compared to when my son was born in the 80's.

Here is a link that might be useful: CDC Mandatory Vaccine Schedule: 1983 vs 2012

roselvr, did you mean to link to a blogger? Here is the link to the CDC recommended immunization chart.

Here is a link that might be useful: CDC 2012 Recommended Immunizations

My seven year-old, who has Crohn's Disease, is on a pretty serious medication called Remicade, which is an immunosuppressant. It would be very, very dangerous if he got the flu, as his immune system is compromised. He could not get the mist or the "live" vaccine, but the whole family got vaccinated back in October.

I was in CVS yesterday (ours has a "Minute Clinic") and I swear there was almost a small riot when the crowd of the people waiting for vaccines were told that they wouldn't be seen that day. The sole NP on duty just could not handle so many people by herself. It was bedlam.

Danielle-your 7 yr old has Crohns? God bless you.

I don't blame you for being vigilant.

I'm on day 11 of flu now and just starting to feel human.

The last few days i have staggered out of bed to pick my daughter up from school and then collapsed back in bed. Two rounds of antibiotics and I still sound like I have an unhappy cat and a squeeze accordion in my chest as I breathe.

I did get the flu shot, though.

One flu side effect I didn't expect was that in a fit of coughing, I somehow lost control of my iPad and flung it into a chair, cracking the screen. So now it has the flu too. : /

I went to three drug stores late yesterday (CVS, one in a Walmart Super Center and a Walgreens) for DH who has a regular head cold. Being a family practice doc (and a former pharmacist before that) he's very specific about what meds he will take and he only wanted the Sudafed 4 hour. In every place there was a looooong line of people at the pharmacy counter wanting Sudafed and/or wanting to get a shot to prevent influenza. It was a nightmare waiting in those lines! Every place was totally out of the regular Sudafed and only had the generic. Lots of sick people coughing and looking weak and awful. I saw at least 10 people ahead of me who, after waiting in a long line, found out that their insurance didn't cover the advertised $10 injections. If they wanted the shot they'd have to cough up something like $31.99 for it! My advice is to call and ask specific questions before you head off to any pharmacy for the injection or specific meds. I wish that I had! I wasted well over 2 hours and ended up having to go back and wait in one more line for the generic Wal-Phed! I had a splitting headache by the time I got back home again!

Lynn, hope you're not getting the bug! I've heard it can start with a bad headache.

Kiki - Sorry you are so ill, but the flu is a VIRUS and antibiotics do nothing for a virus. They are for bacterial infections. Maybe you meant anti-viral medication.

Hope you feel better soon.

I don't usually get a flu shot (and seldom am sick with more than a mild cold) but because this strain seems so aggressive I stopped at the pharmacy in our local grocery store yesterday (King Sooper/City Market). I had the exact opposite experience as Lynn in that there were no other customers and flu shots were $25. While pondering aloud whether to get one then and there vs. going to military base and getting it free, the tech advised me it was free for military (active duty and retirees). I swear I was in and out of there in less than five minutes! Now I just hope I didn't wait too long, and plan to lay low for a couple of weeks while it does what it is supposed to do:)

Texanjana,
Yep, I just wasn't clear, I'm taking an antibiotic for the secondary respiratory infx.

roselvr, I agree with your post. Luckily we still live in a country where we can make our own informed decisions/choices about what can get injected into our own bodies. Although, based on the attitude shown by some posters, it seems they would prefer that some government body made those decisions for all of us and forced us all to comply. No thank you, I like my freedom.

I read on on TWO medical sites this year that people CANNOT get the flu from the shot.
* One site stated..."This myth just WON'T die!"
* Also...Some people may have a minor reaction to the shot, which is usually a dull fever, but it's NOT a flu reaction.

Chispa-
* I may have sounded a little "heavy" with my statements, but I'm not trying to insult you or anybody! Please don't think I'm doing that, 'cuz I'm not.
* I'm just sayin' that if Faron had a certain viewpoint on a subject, and then learned that large groups in that field had a contrary leaning, I should probably alter MY view somewhat...
* Somewhat related: I damn near died when I was ~10y/o from Spinal-Meningitis (~~1970?). There's 2 days of that stretch where I don't remember ANYTHING (Coma). I'm not sure if the current vaccines covered my type, but...guess where I stand on THAT issue?!

Faron

Does anyone remember the Asian flu epidemic? I was 15 at the time and don't remember anyone in my immediate family getting it, and we had no flu shots back then.

I feel they are necessary for those who have a comprimised immune system, such as my middle DD who has terrible allergies as well as asthma~she's been getting the vaccine for as long as I can remember, and now my GS(6 1/2)and her DH get one also.

Here is a link that might be useful: Asian flu

That flu was just a little b4 my time...1961! LOL!

From your linked article, it sounds like the vaccines were in limited supply!

Faron

For those of you who think they are too healthy to get the flu, you might want to check out this sad story of a Texas teen who just died. He was apparently very healthy and young but he did die of the flu. It is so tragic.

Here is a link that might be useful: Teen dies of flu

Prairiefox, it's not that I feel I'm 'that healthy', but I do like my immune system to do what it was 'designed' for. My 'theory' is we all have an immune system, some just not effective as others~scientists are still working on the 'whys' of that.

Patty Cakes-

Most of the time, I'd agree with you.
IMO....these aren't the kind of odds to bet against.
If 1918-style variants come around again, a large majority of people who "chanced-it" would be dead.

Faron

Count me in as one who has had the flu several times, but who refuses to get the shot.

My last bout of flu was 22 years ago. I only call it the flu when it fits my Grandmother's description: "You think you are going to die and you are worried that you won't."

With all of the hype this year, I nearly did go get a shot. But my DH gets the shot every single year and nearly every year he gets a mild form of the flu, while I do not. I think I will stick with what has worked for me'no shot.

This year I've seen at least ten FB friends report they had the shot and now have the flu. I do question their diagnosis. When I had the flu, there was no way in the world I'd have been looking at FB, much less posting there or anywhere else. I was too busy hoping to die. I remember it like it was yesterday.

"The idea of not getting immunized for the flu or whatever virus or disease that can be prevented just seems selfish."

That is a bit harsh. If the shot guaranteed immunity it would be one thing, but we know it is less than 60% effective.

"I read on on TWO medical sites this year that people CANNOT get the flu from the shot."

Ok, but...

"All these things were tested using the scientific method. So are flu shots. It's the same science."

Unfortunately, sometimes things go wrong. And by the time we find out something has gone wrong, it is too late for most people. The CDC acknowledges that in 1976 there was a small increase in Guillain-Barr' syndrome. They believe the increase was caused by the flu vaccine that year. My great aunt had that vaccine and she did get GBS that year. She was an invalid for the remaining 30 years of her life. This is only one of several reasons I decline the shot.

I've had several Dr.s tell me they never get the shot. That information, gives me pause.

My best friend is a Vet and since she loves school, she also obtained a BS in Nursing. With all of that education in the health sciences, she does not believe she should get a flu shot.

But really the thing that tips the scale for me is that so many people I know get the shot every year, and they get sick every year. Something is wrong with that picture!

You may still get flu after having been vaccinated, but the severity of the flu will be reduced.

Flu I can deal with; it's the potential lung complications I worry about. So if I can possibly lessen the severity & chances of complications by getting the vaccine, it's worth it.

I've been using saline nasal sprays a lot too, in addition to washing hands. Seems to me if you can flush out any viruses that are trying to gain a foothold in your nasal passages, that should help.

We're supposed to do a lot of travelling over the next 4 weeks -- ugh. I plan to load up on disinfecting wipes, hand sanitizer, and a travel-sized saline spray for all those hours on a plane breathing germs.

MERCURY and preservative THERMOSAL...that's why I don't get flu shots anymore.

Convince me that the shots do not contain Thermosal and I'll get the shot.

My family has a sad history with the 1918 flu. My grandmother on one side of the family was orphaned at age 2, along with her 10 brothers and sisters. Both their parents died of the flu.

On the other side of the family, my grandfather was one of 6 children. Two survived the flu. The headstone for their graves just lists their first names and the dates of their death--they all died within two months of each other.

Now, today we have better way of treating the flu and for treating the secondary infections--pneumonia and the other things that flu opens the doors for. So I doubt that here in the US there'd be another epidemic as large as there was in 1918. However, even the best of medical care can't save everyone, even today.

The thing is, there are all different strains of the flu. Some are milder than others. Some people are more susceptible to some strains than other strains. There may even be a genetic component--some people may just be naturally more able to ward off the flu virus than others.

I get the shot. Where I work, I'm often working with large groups of temp workers, most of them elderly. They are a susceptible population, and since they all work in a large room with up to 250 people sitting together in close quarters, it's just a natural breeding ground for infection. My employer offers free flu shots for just this reason. They don't track who gets a shot or not. They also have signs and charts up on the hallway walls about things to do to avoid infection--washing hands, coughing into your elbow. And there's hand sanitizer dispensers everywhere.

So I get the shot. But I don't use the hand sanitizers because they are too drying to my skin. Who knows what the best choice is?

This year, I think I had a brand-new student nurse giving me the shot (under supervision of a qualified nurse, of course). She was a bit nervous, but did an okay job--the shot hurt a bit more than other times, but was that her or me? And it didn't hurt that much, to be honest, although it bled a lot and I ended up with a SpongeBob SquarePants bandaid on it. Worse things have happened.

flyingflower... I will link below. The single dose and the nasal spray DO NOT contain any preservative. It is only the multi-use vials. So if you plan to get the vaccine you should be aware of this and ask for one of these. c

Here is a link that might be useful: flu vaccine

Camlan said:

"This year, I think I had a brand-new student nurse giving me the shot (under supervision of a qualified nurse, of course). She was a bit nervous, but did an okay job--the shot hurt a bit more than other times, but was that her or me? And it didn't hurt that much, to be honest, although it bled a lot and I ended up with a SpongeBob SquarePants bandaid on it. Worse things have happened."

Students giving their first injections tend to push the needle in rather than going in like a dart and that hurts. I taught nursing at our community college before I had my twins and we had our students practice on oranges. We did not let them practice on each other (that's what I did as a student nurse---stupid, stupid, stupid.)

Sometimes, I even had to take the students hand and push the needle in. Thank heaven for people that like students.

It's funny, watching the newscasters on morning TV get their flu vaccine on live TV by physicians rather than nurses and watching them squeal like babies. Not putting down physicians--my brother is family practice--but they don't give that many injections.

Most injections should not hurt except for the occasional liquid that burns going in.

Red lover, I suspect that I was the first person that poor girl had ever given a shot too. She was really nervous, but the nurse supervising her did a great job.

I lied a little afterwards and told her I barely felt a thing. I didn't want to give her a complex about giving people shots. And she was very sweet and certainly seemed like she'll be a good, caring nurse someday.

Thanks trailrunner, that's the incentive I was looking for! I had no idea they offered single doses. How long has that been around? From now on that's what i'll insist on.

I called the drug store and they had just 2 of the preservative-free shots left so I told her hold it and we'll be right over.

ff...it has been around a long long time...I can remember only using that for my Home Health patients. I can't remember what year though . I do know that when I first started out in 1989 I would draw up the amount needed from the multi dose bottle and take it to the patient's home...that is how we did it back then. At some point we got the single use injections. I am glad that you have benefited. Take care. c

delete
I went off topic and was incorrect with my posting.

This post was edited by sheesharee on Mon, Jan 14, 13 at 12:36

CDC: Flu Vaccine Virtually Ineffective For Those Over 65

This seasonâÂÂs flu vaccine was almost completely ineffective in people 65 and older, which could explain why rates of hospitalization and death have been some of the highest ever recorded for that age group, according to early estimates released Thursday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

For people under 65, getting vaccinated this season reduced the need to go to the doctor for the flu by one-half to two-thirds.

For those 65 and older, though, it helped in just 9% of cases, a number too low to be statistically significant, according to a report in the CDCâÂÂs Weekly Morbidity and Mortality Report released Thursday. The study was based on a survey of 2,697 children and adults by the U.S. Influenza Vaccine Effectiveness Network from Dec. 3, 2012, through Jan. 19, 2013.

While this yearâÂÂs flu season has been moderately severe for the general population, âÂÂin people over 65 weâÂÂre seeing a pretty severe year,â said Joe Bresee, chief of the epidemiology and prevention branch in the CDCâÂÂs influenza division.

Here is a link that might be useful: CDC: Flu Vaccine Virtually Ineffective For Those Over 65

I am sure there is no connection, but I can say for sure that my two kids and DH all got the flu shot and have been sick off an on for weeks this winter. I did not get the flu shot. I was sick once with a fever for a morning. then I went to work.

The last time I got the flu, many years ago, was right after I got my first and only flu shot. Was on my back for a week and I was one to never get sick.

Because I have asthma and a compromised immune system, I get the flu shot every year. In 1999 DH and I both got the flu (we didn't get the shots) and were so very, very sick. I got it at Christmas and spent the week in bed-i have virtually no memory of that week!

My MIL has cancer, and was on chemo-her immune system was very compromised, yet she insisted on going to WalMart and other crowded stores. We begged her to stay home and get a vaccine, but she refused until her oncologist told her she needed to do so. She got her first flu shot ever this year.

In January I got the horrific cold going around our area-it's like a very, very mild form of the flu, but you're sick for 3 weeks. I caught it on the plane, I'm sure. But everyone I know has gotten it-and it's NOT the flu.

We live in a very populous area, and there are a lot of immigrants-whooping cough and other diseases are up here due to the huge populations of unvaccinated people. I am a diligent person about keeping my hands off my face, washing my hands constantly, use a napkin to open doors, don't use public pens, etc-but I know that it's just way too easy to pick up a germ despite being vigilant.