Original Plan vs Current
The original plan code was HWEPL76238,I found it under e-plans. I liked that the plan was fairly straight forward with a good footprint. http://www.eplans.com/house-plans/epl/hwepl76238.html

Changes that I made to the original plan:
Because of our lot, I wanted to have a covered deck in the back, rather than a courtyard feel to the front yard. So everything got flipped around. The original plan also had a very high roofline, and I would like a lower profile. However I am not sure what roofline is possible after all the changes I have made. It also had a vaulted great room, but I would prefer a flat ceiling.

I removed the downstairs and bonus room (above garage) access and used it to create a mechanical room and enlarge the utility/mud room.

I have modified the plan so it is more symmetrical and flattened out some bump outs that I found unnecessary. Making the house symmetrical meant having the great room and the guest/office/den at the front of the house equal each other in width and length.

The original plan also had a half bath on the hallway to the master. I had removed it and turned that space into a storage room, with the idea to have rough plumbing if it at resale a ½ bath was required. But in the end, I thought if there were two really nice bathrooms, I wouldn’t miss another toilet to clean. So have changed the whole space to a long room that will be my library, guest room when needed, and separate tv room.

What are your thoughts on the half bath? Was I right to exclude it or should I keep it in?

Do you trust your children to keep their bathroom company-ready at all times, including if it's "non"company like their buddies or a repairperson?

As it's really the only bathroom that has to be kept up everyday in case of guests, I don't see it being an issue. Thanks for the thought tho.

Will you actually have guests? They will have to walk across all the main areas of the house to use the bathroom.... in the middle of the night, in the morning to shower, etc. I would find that slightly uncomfortable as a guest.

In the kid's bathroom, I would switch the toilet and the linen closet. That will hide the toilet from view (from the mudroom) and give the toilet a little privacy.

You might want a pocket door to the mudroom/utility. If someone goes to use that toilet, they can see into your mudroom mess.

I agree absolutely on the door idea for the mudroom, I was thinking that instead of a pocket door, to use a door on a rail, like a barn door.

I can't say we have overnight guests enough (maybe once a year) to consider that issue.

I'm thinking when the kids are gone, do we really need 3 bathrooms in the house? Any guests we would have could stay in one of the bedrooms and then the bathroom would be handy at that point.

In terms of resale, which I don't forsee for a great length of time, would having that half bath make a difference?

Thanks

I really like your plan! I think the kids/guest bath is fine. It's pretty close to walk to from the dining. I agree with a pocket door for mudroom. Someone suggested it for my plan and we added it (even though it'll be open all the time) its nice to have the option to close. Our wic is through our bathroom too. I wish it wasn't but there was no other option. Did you want to walk through ...looks like you could enter through your bedroom. I'm assuming you want to just be able to get ready and not have to walk around.

Thanks Karen!

I was thinking furniture placement and flow when I arranged the master suite. I want to be able to move the bed to either the south or east wall, and we may have a tv in the bedroom, so I was always considering "where does that go?".

I don't want to have to pick out clothes, go around into bathroom and try them on in mirror, and repeat process. I may end up changing my mind as I think about it more- I'm not sure if I lose closet shelving space on way versus the other.

I had saw a really nice arrangement on Houzz where they had the 2 smaller doors opening up to the closet, with vanities on either side, and it really swayed me.

I tried out many combinations for the bathroom and would have liked a sit down vanity, I have attached a rough draft of what I had sketched out for that idea.

I think for the reason of not wanting to keep going back and forth the walk through would be great.

Great house plan. I'd say make a list of what you love and what you don't love. Look at what you have to do keep what you love and it might help you make good decisions about the changes you make to what you don't love. Tongue twister.

I like the change to the master bedroom, with the closet opening to the bedroom. I would put windows on both MB walls.

How big is your lot? I live in North Dakota, so I understand winter. I would hate having a garage that opened to the north.

My concern with your house is lack of natural light. Your great room and dining room won't see much light after 11 am, and with your long winters, you need all the light you can get. I would put a skylight or Solatube in the dining room and entry.

If your lot is big enough, rotating the house 45° would help increase your sunlight.

Your plan has my pet peeve, although I don't see an easy way around it ... namely where is your dryer going to vent? With the laundry in the middle of the house, and your house on a slab, it's going to have to go up into the attic, and then across a long expanse to an outside wall. I speak from experience when I say that keeping that cleaned out, to eliminate a fire hazard in your attic, is a huge pain in the fanny.

I'm not sure you'd want to, but maybe flip the utility room so the w/d are on the wall by the dining room and vent it out near/under the deck?

I moved my master bath toilet away from the door to the bathroom. The more distance between my gently resting head and my husband's morning trip to the loo the better.

Double post

This post was edited by robotropolis on Tue, Nov 19, 13 at 11:02

Would hanging a mirror in the closet solve your "walking back and forth" issue?

I would add some South facing windows.

Mostly I like your plan. There are some adjustments i would make though.

I agree that you won't get much natural light because of the way the house is oriented. If your lot allows, I would rotate it even more, 90 degrees, so that the great room faces south, and then invert the bedrooms and garage so that the garage is on the new north wall, with the utility room along the kitchen wall. The garage could open to the east or west.

Making the long wall face south will also increase the energy efficiency of your house. Windows on the south wall offer a net energy gain in most situations, because of the heat and light they let in from the sun.

For storage, you could consider using attic or storage trusses over at least part of the house, if you are worried about not having enough. Raised heels on the trusses will increase the amount of space you have for insulation.

Do you need that big of a mech room?

I think it is fine to not build guest rooms or bathrooms around the needs of guests if having guests isn't a big part of your lifestyle. If you had a lot of overnight guests I would try to get another full bath near the guest room, but if you only have overnight guests a few nights a year, or they are close friends or family, I wouldn't build a house around accommodating their bathroom privacy needs.

The den/office/guest room is a strange shape, very long compared with it's width. I would mark out a space that shape with tape or stakes and rope and see what it feels like to you, and think about furniture placement.

Finally, most of your rooms only have windows on one side. I would try to get windows on two side of the more important or most used rooms. They will be much more pleasant to be in.

I like the arrangement of the great room, dinning room and kitchen, open to each other but not in a straight line.

-Chadoe, that was something I was concerned about, as I didn't know what the code requirement was. Like you said, I think switching laundry to opposite wall and venting out to deck would be the best bet.

-Annkh, the lot is 100'x150'. I had initially orienated the house as you suggested, but changed to this orientation as it was better garage access, less turning. It is a narrow,dead end street on west curb, with 2 homes across the street, so it gets congested with parking.

I have been considering 3 full skylights above the dining rooms to address the sunlight issue. Between those and the large window in kitchen, there should be ample natural light.

Any time we watch tv, it seems that we are always closing the drapes in the living, so there isn't a glare on tv. Planning on pot lighting, and center light fixture.
I was looking to install Solartubes in the master closet, pantry, and mudroom. I hadn't considered the entry. Wanting to install a door with glass insert.

I hadn't considered the impact of snow and drifts for the north opening garage door though. Will have to consult more with the hubby.

robo- I would rather walk as few steps as possible in the night to the loo, and maybe compensate the sound issue with a really good door and sound insulation between bathroom and master.

Thanks!

-misiwa, the original plan had bonus room above the garage, and depending on the rafter structure we choose, that is always an option too; using a drop down stair/attic type access in the garage.

As we are not yet at the building stage, I was being generous with the mechanical room. Wanted to ensure I didn't run out of room. If indeed we don't need all that space, I will use it in the mudroom. Our freeze would also find a home in the mechanical room too.

The den, I agree it looks awkard from the plan. I was trying to balance the whole house, and it ended up oversized. The plan is to have book shelves lining the walls, with one wall left open for a pull out sofa.

If it doesn't impact the rafter structure, (roofs aren't my specialty), and I don't need all the wall space, I can always push that wall back in flush with the house.

I'm glad you like the great room/dining/ktichen. At one point, maybe I was overthinking it, but I had thought that the space between the dining and living room might be dead space. But trying to put up walls to define it looked stupid, and of course it would impact the sightlines from the kitchens.

Definitely think about the snow! We've had a foot of snow in front of the garage door, looks pretty funny when you open it up...then it all falls inside :(

My dad, OTH, has a 5-foot eave over his north-facing garage doors, big field to the north. He gets almost no snow underneath. The garage doors hardly ever need painting, either, the whole thing stays really dry, and there's a clear spot to start up the snowblower for the rest of the driveway.

Thanks bpathome, that's a good suggestion. The north side of the street is a well treed park, not sure how it would drift. It sure would be nice to have that protection of the eaves.

I posted an updated plan switching the laundry in mudroom, and reversing the master bath/closet. I added a long, narrow window over the bathroom vanities to let in natural light, I just hope 8ft walls will allow this. Having a mirror in the closet will solve the walk around problems.

Also added in blue location of skylights and solar tubes.

If the mechanical room is bigger than necessary, you can move the hall closet to the opposite side, and increase the size of the NW bedroom closet.

I think I'd swap the linen closet and vanity in the bathroom (or put the vanity in the middle). The light from the window would be better, and you might even put in a bigger window,

Is the entry wide enough for a bench on one side? It's nice to have a spot for guests to take off shoes or boots, or set a purse while taking off a coat. It might be worth stealing a foot from the kitchen to widen the entry.

Making the house symmetrical meant having the great room and the guest/office/den at the front of the house equal each other in width and length.

Why does it have to be symmetrical? Other than when viewed from above, when is anyone ever going to see that it is symmetrical? I suggest making the room a more useable size. Decorating a "bowling alley" room will not be easy.

b_valancy, Dad had a 4-foot eave on his previous south-facing house, too; still great!

While you're installing solatubes (and I loved mine in our last house), put one in the hallways, and why not in the mechanicals room? I had one in an upstairs hall and one in the stairwell. It was a tri-level so a little light did come from the main level, but the solatubes made a huge difference; didn't have to turn on the hall light in the winter until 5:00, instead of 2:00! In summer, not at all :)

In your den, if you shift the door towards the front door, you could have a huge walk-in storage closet to the left.

Hi thanks all for the suggestions.

bpathome, was this what you were thinking in terms of walk in? It definitely gets rid of the bowling alley effect, yet still leaving a good size room.

I will have to convince my significant other that we need more solartubes, I can see him being stubborn on this. But if I can find someone else locally who has them installed and the difference they make, that would win him over. (I don't want to go overboard on this, in cost and placement)

-annkh, I was envisioning a bench and some type of table in the entrance for people coming in the front door, I think there should be enough room for that to happen. It doesn't have to be a wide bench to function.

I switched the vanity and linen like you suggested, and I think you are right about the vanity getting more sunlight, I also made the window bigger.

I've saw mechanical rooms in other ready to buy plans, and they always seem so undersized, as if people discount the number of appliances a house usually requires, (water heater, water softner, furnance or boiler system, electrical panel). I don't see it as space that would be wasted, like I said earlier, it will also house our freezer.

I was thinking of closet access from the den, but you could even access it from the hall. Or have two back to back. Just thinking of ways to use the excess space in the den. And since you don't have a basement, you can always use extra storage! Or even have recessed display shelving (with baskets or cute bins, it could also be storage) in the hall, and the closet behind, door wherever.

Tell the SO you'll save $$ with solatubes, not keeping the hall lights on! I liked my first one in the hall so much, I added another above the stairs to even out the light. And I was thinking more of the kids' hall, because there's more going on back there, than the master hall. But if you do a display/book shelf wall there, then maybe solatube it :)

I like the swap in the bathroom, but now it seems like, I've never had a bathroom where I walked past/around the toilet to get to the vanity. Can the commode go by the window? One is more likely to need something from the closet when one is at the sink, than at the toilet.

Hi all,

Just wanted to post an update on my plan. Sometimes all it takes is some time away from the object of your desire and a fresh perspective to see new possibilites...

I haven't drastically changed things, but I have made some changes that might more sense in regards to footings, structure, etc.

What do you think?

Well, I'll just come out and say it: I don't like this house. Although it's a reasonable size for an average family and is a simple, direct floorplan, a number of things just look awkward. However, having said that up front, I'll also admit that -- unlike another poster -- I do not understand winter. My lackluster reaction may be due to having lived my whole life in a very mild climate; thus, for example, I would never have considered that a north-facing garage could be bad, but I'd be concerned about west-facing windows. Keep my warm-weather knowledge bank" in mind as you read my thoughts:

- Where is the main entrance? I'm assuming it's the door from the porch that opens into the great room. If so, good. But if it's the door on the other side that opens into the dining room and gives a direct view of the kitchen, I'd think again.

- If that's the front porch, is it covered? In any climate, you want your guests protected as they enter the house, but it seems to me that'd be doubly-important in a cold climate.

- Consider the windows on the front of the house (if I'm reading the front side correctly). They're very mismatched and will not lead to a pleasant elevation -- not "as is". As some other posters have said, the windows are disappointing.

- Three hallways -- the entry way, the hallway to the master, and (to a lesser extent) the hallway to the secondary bedroom area -- seem bowling-alleyish. I fear they'll be long, dark and uncomfortable. Could you alleviate this with a bit of a niche somewhere? Just a little something for a piece of artwork /direct lighting?

- I see that you've put in solar tubes in some of these spaces. I know they're popular on these boards, but I'm not a great fan. I fear they'd leak, and they won't give you any light after dark, which -- as I understand your climate -- is an awful lot of the time. Instead, I'd go with motion-detector lights. I can't tell you how much I love the ones in my pantry/laundry room. When I walk into the room with groceries or a load of laundry, light appears -- day or night -- and it goes away automatically after 10 minutes. Ours is on the ceiling (actually IN the light fixture) rather than on the doorway; thus, the lights don't stay on if someone leaves the door standing open.

- Would the great room fireplace be better located on the other side of the window? I'm thinking that this is a big focal point, and as you enter the room, it'd be nice to look diagonally across the room and see it.

- Okay, as I look at the last picture, the great room and the dining room are gaining on me. While I'm generally anti-skylight, I think the skylights above the dining room are a good choice.

- I'm not crazy about a U-shaped kitchen with a large island. The inclination in this type of layout is to minimize the walkways so as to maximize the island (which isn't going to be particularly large in this space), and that creates a "trap" where people get stuck behind the island. I'd consider a peninsula / G-shaped kitchen instead.

- OR go with an L-shaped layout and island. While this technically gives you less counter space, you have more usable space: You'd be giving up a difficult-to-utilize corner cabinet (which, at best, would've had a problematic and expensive Lazy Susan), but the payoff would be that the island could be perhaps 3' wider.

- I like the large, well-located pantry. I would definitely outfit it with a motion-detector lights.

- I like the secondary bedroom area and bath. Good move on switching the linen closet closer to the door. It doesn't matter so much for the linen closet, but it keeps the bath items closer together.

- Good closets in the secondary bedrooms /good storage in the utility room.

- Good call on going with one nice-sized secondary bath and skipping over the half-bath. In general, I think people on this board tend to over-bath, and I suspect most of those bathrooms sit unused most of the time.

- Speaking of bathrooms, good switch bringing the closet "in" and moving the bathroom to the exterior wall. However, the bathroom could be so much nicer. I'd consider moving the tub to the end of the room so that you have it (and a window above) for a nice focal point as you walk into the room. And if you cut down the massive vanity, you'd have room for a nice-sized linen closet. Do you really need two sinks? Why? Does anyone ever use two sinks at once? I doubt it. Storage space is much more valuable.

- OR consider going with a really big walk-in shower across the end of the room. I say this because you mentioned 36" doorways, so I suspect you're considering aging-in-place function. You have space to do a no-barrier walk-in shower.

- I totally agree with moving the toilet. I'm imagining the bed under the window so it's visible /pretty as you enter the room, and that means you'd have a view of the toilet from the bed. No thanks!

- Think twice about those 36" doors. They look oversized and are a little "odd" to open and close. If handicapped function is the concern, remember that you're much more likely to end up using a walker than a wheelchair, and a walker is fine with a standard sized door. A wheelchair is fine with a 32" door, especially if you use offset hinges. (Source: My grandmother's house, in which she used a wheelchair only when she was very sick /when she left the house.)

Overall, the house's greatest strength is its simplicity and affordability; however, I think it has little else going for it. I think you could buy a house similar to this one and skip the headaches of building.

The plan is nice, but I would switch the 12x11.8 bedroom with the bath and make the bath a jack & Jill. That way no one is traveling through the hallway to the bath. You can also put a door that opens to the hallway to let guest access the bathroom without going through the bedrooms. Just another thought!

Three doorways into one bathroom? I wouldn't do it personally.

I like it more than Mrs. Pete, but I agree that the entry hall is narrow and long. Imagine welcoming guests-- you open the door and turn sideways and push yourself against the wall so they can come in? I see now that you just reduced the width-- I would add it back.

Also, I'd skip the pocket door in favor of a standard one in the master bath-- pocket doors are noisy compared to regular doors.

Hi MrsPete,
-The family main entrance will be through the garage and mud room. The visitor main entrance will be then entrance by the play room. We could also extend the eaves to offer protection to the front door, or add a small roof extension to cover.

- I hadn’t given as much thought to the elevation of the house, but perhaps I could consider adding a bay window to the play room, and adding a window in the master bath along that same wall. .

-I chose that corner for the fireplace as I felt it was a bit of dead, awkward space. I also wanted flexibility in the rest of the room to be able to move the TV and furniture arrangement. I think it would be a nice sight to see as guests come in the front door.

-In regards to the hallways, I am looking forward to using that wall space for art; I don’t want it to be a blank, boring walk. Like you said, some direct lighting would be helpful. I don’t have a lot of areas in the house for art display; the great room has a large expanse but could be restricted due to furniture placement and me not wanting it to be too ‘busy’.

-I like your idea of the peninsula; I believe the island could become a nuisance between the work flow areas.

-As to the solar tubes, I am definitely not sold on them, I would want to do a lot more research before they were installed; I have read some bad reviews elsewhere on this forum. I hadn’t considered the motion sensor lights.

-I am struggling with the master bath, I don’t want it to be too narrow, so I am constantly weighing the must haves for the master bath. I can foresee a few more layout changes before I commit to the one. I have changed my mind and now see the light on moving the toilet further down; I don’t want to ruin a beautiful view from the master.

-In this most recent version, I had updated the plan to have appx 36” doors, and I found it was hard to properly add them in. I think for the secondary bedrooms, normal sized doors would be more appropriate. At the moment, I think I will keep the large access to the master, for that just in case scenario. It also doesn’t hurt to have larger doors for moving furniture either.

Harringk- I can’t say I am a fan of the jack & jill, too many access doors makes it feel crowded.

Zone4newby- I have finally realized what people have said about pocket doors being noisy- recently experienced it. So I am going with a full sized door, but I can see later on that impacting possible layouts.

-I did some measuring, and have to agree with restoring the width to the entry. Instead of taking it back from the play room, I decided to steal some from the kitchen, as it was already an over-generous size to my current thinking.

I am doing some more tweaking and considering all the feedback so far. Thanks for your help and hopefully I will have something to show you later on.

I like it much better, with the bump outs trimmed back. The one exception (for me) would be a sunroom/porch, to take advantage of that nice southeastern light. Even if you don't grow plants, wonderful place to sit with a cup of coffee, first thing in the morning.

The kitchen...I couldn't see the point of the island, except that it was in the original drawing. It was a bit of a barrier between pantry and range, so a peninsula (with stools) might be a better use of the space.

Also, with those cold winters...I'd want a vestibule for the front entry. Not big, but just enough to give you an airlock with those cold winds.

Just a few ideas :) {{gwi:1513117}}From Kitchen plans

Thanks for the suggestions LL.

I have had a change of mind in reqards to the orientation of the house. I realized that it is not the end of the world for the garage access on the west side street. I do agree that the South orienation would be best. It also leaves me with a very nice courtyard in front of my house.

I think I have reached the end of my revisions. Thank you all so much for your help.

I would put the toilets in both bathrooms in their own little WC. Makes the bathrooms function so much better for 2 people and hides the toilet from view. Love ours in our master and would never have it any other way.