You need to spend a few hours going through past posts at this website. This is a long and arduous process, and should be anytime you make a purchase like this.
Search out the brands that interest you and read the pros and cons. Once you boil down the choices, start asking specific questions. You'll need tough skin because sometimes your ideas are challanged and strong opinions can confuse you when the thing that looked so good to you is bashed or dissected by others. You've seen that high end stuff costs high end dollars. Anything less will be, well, less. Warning. If your research is to find the Ferrari of BMWs you'll probably be frustrated with the alotted amount of money that you stated you have to spend. BMW's are more than $3000. You meither need to get your mitts on more money or settle for a good chevy or maybe a Toyota.

michael p

A used BMW (pro range) might be had for $3k if you look long and hard enough.

Duel fuel is also more costly than all gas. Would you consider all gas? There have been many discussions here(as always) that an electric oven isn't significantly better than a gas oven. YOu can also search for floor models that may be discounted.

There are a couple of 30" all gas ranges at the following link for about $3000.

Here is a link that might be useful: US Appliance

Thanks for the input. I guess there wasn't any easy answer. Michaelmaxp - I will look around some more. I have spent many hours on the site and I guess I haven't found the answer? I was just hoping there was an obvious choice that I had missed.

Thanks

I have a friend that bought the FiveStar 36" Gas range and loves it. Looking around, I found this website: http://www.universal-akb.com/fivestar.html where the 36" is just under $3000 and the 30" is $2100. Getting the sealed burners and you have a range of 350 BTU to 21000 BTU's. He's an avid cook (not a professional) and said he has yet to reach the limits of this range. It's not a Viking or wolf but then again, it's half the price with similar look and features. Just a thought.

by the way, the link above has many other brands so i find it a good place to look at prices.

Eric

thoepen where are you located? BlueStar is now all over the place also look at the American range. GE profile and cafe series ranges are also very good performers

I live in Denver and I just called a local Bluestar retailer. He could give me a price on the 30 inch RNB but not the RCS. He said he would have to call his rep on Monday if I was still interested. I will call the American retailer as well. The GE cafe series was the range I was just about to buy but wanted to make sure there wasn't a "better" option?

Have you considered a Bertazzoni? I have seen them in person, they look great and hit a price point where other manufacturers have left a big space. The 30" model I have seen is about $2200. Personally I like the red color.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.bertazzoni-italia.com/Product/detail.aspx?CatID=PS&ID=47

I love the look of the Bertazzoni but was a little concerned about them based on some of the info here (low BTU and ignition problems).

I would probably be considering the GE Monogram 30" at about $3900. Yeah, it's a little more, probably but I think that's a nice range for the price. Self clean, too.

Don't know your cabinet config, but 30" pro range top and an decent convec electric oven could be had for $3000, although cabinet costs might jack that up a bit.

You didn't mention whether you budgeted for a vent hood but you can expect to fork over another couple thousand for that. A 30" Bluestar rangetop (no oven) can be had for $2,800 while the 30" range is about $3,850. Bluestar outperforms all other gas ranges/rangetops suitable for home bar none and holds it's own compared to the slightly more powerful but less veratile electric induction units.

I wouldn't take a Viking if you gave I to me - while once market innovators they are now just a name living off a past reputation and talented marketing team. Their products have been the subject of numerous issues discussed on this forum and from a performance perspective, here is nothing to reccomend them as they were surpassed quite a while ago in the performance department hough they continue to live on as the overplayed darlings of HGTV/Fine Living TV shows and eye candy kitchen magazines that feature ginormous kitchens that no one ever uses.

Bluestar's closest competitors thousands of BTU behind and are few in number and more costly than the Bluestar, though this is sure to change as they become more well known and sought after. If the price performance ratio is imporant to you and you could swing the cost of the Bluestar you can't go wrong. Below these dollar figures for 30" there isn't much I could reccomend for someone who likes to cook. You can check out Bluestar's website www.bluestarcooking.com and look at online prices at the AJ Madison link below - though I don't know if the are an authorized dealer.
Sleepyhollow

Here is a link that might be useful: Bluestar Ranges and Rangetops at AJ Madison

Thanks Sleepyhollow. I have been trying to work with a local dealer here with the price. I already have a vent hood at my house. Doesn't Bluestar have the RCS series that is a little cheaper? That is what I am having my local rep look into. $3000 is about my spending limit for the range. I have read the RCS series can run from $2500-$3100 depending on the circumstances. If I could get one for $2500 then I will buy it (I also need it sooner, rather then later).

Do you have a "scratch and dent" appliance store in the area? We found some really good deals there, especially on older (ie last year's) models, etc.

For example, we wanted a built-in fridge, but I didn't feel comfortable paying $5000-$8000 for one. We have a shop (Birmingham, AL) that has a lot of scratch and dent, or older model GE Monorgam, DCS, Electrolux, and Jenn-Air stuff. We ended up finding a 36" Monorgam Fridge (bottom freezer) for $3200, around $2000 better than we could find at a traditional appliance store. There are no blemishes, no problems, full warranty. Just had been on the floor for a while, and they were looking to get rid of it.

Check around your area... there are a lot of good deals to be had, and the hunt can be really fun. Most importantly, take your time. The range you want is out there, you just have to find it.

Time isn't really on my side. I am currently without a range as my last one died and is now gone. I figure I have until Christmas to replace it. As of this second I can't think of anywhere that has what I am looking as a "scratch and dent" type store?

I feel like I am on information overload. So due to my spending limits I thought I had narrowed it down to the GE Cafe, a Bluestar or a Bertazzoni (I haven't talked to the American Range retailer yet). I talked with a Bluestar dealer today who happened to have a Bluestar RNB with a minor scratch that he was would sell for $3000. I was pretty excited about that. I am supposed to check it out later this week. T

hen I called a Bertazzoni retailer who also sells many other brands as well as Bluestar. I told him I had ~$3000 and the 3 ranges I was looking at. His answer was that they started out as a service store and couldn't recommend any GE. Then he talked about how the Bluestar kicked some serious BTU's but said that probably wasn't very good for most residential homes. I have an 18" hood that vents to the outside. I know this has been covered here but he claimed I needed a 24" hood that pulls pretty good. I also have wood cabinets above that and he mentioned that wasn't the best idea with the Bluestar as well. That was a little disappointing as I love that range. He basically suggested I get the Bertazzoni because it wasn't as powerful. Now I am not sure what to do? Any other help?

There are plenty of us apartment dwellers who due to limitations have Bluestars and American ranges without any ventilation. There is no problem with having wood cabinets above a vent hood. An 18" vent hood is not ideal, but it will help for all but high heat cooktop cooking. If you can get a Bluestar RNB for $3,000.- I think you will be very happy. It is much better than the Berta.

To be effective, the vent hood should, at a minimum equal the width of the range and preferably extend beyond it by a few inches. An 18" hood, even one that vents to the outside wouldn't be practical with a 30" range and the level of BTU output generated by Bluestar or any other high end range. I can't see how the salesman's suggestion could be much better.

The idea with the vent hood is capture as much as it is to "suck air". A hole in the fuselage of an airplane at 30,000 ft. would remove the stir-fry exhaust of multiple Bluestar ranges in short order but it would be noisy, lower the pressure and it might suck you out too... Vent hoods rely on capturing the rising vapors with the hood and using the established draft of the blower to finish the job. This is why you start the vent hood and establish the draft before you generate vapors; once the smoke gets going it is too late. For an 18" or 24" hood to remove the smoke, the CFM and air velocity would have to be so high as to be ridiculously impractical. This is why the best systems have a large capture area (hood) and a quiet fan that move just enough air to do the job.

It doesn't matter if you get a Bertazzoni or a Bluestar, they both require adequate venting and in the most demanding situations like indoor grill or stir-fry, smoke is smoke no matter what you are cooking on. The bottom line is that you don't want to skimp on one part of the system at the expense of the other. Any high end gas range of a given width will require adequate ventilation and I would start with making sure this ventilation (which may include make-up air) fits into the budget for the width of stove I am thinking about before I get into brands of stove. There is no point in a Bluestar or Bertazzoni if you have a great stove that isn't properly ventilated. Check with the manufacturers to see what they require/recommend - don't trust the sales guy. You won't be happy with your choice (whatever it may be) if you house is full of smoke etc.

If I recall Bluestar does make a lower powered model that has 18,000 BTU instead of the 22,000 BTU but then why bother getting the Bluestar - though the star shaped burners, grates, overall simplicity etc really do make for a convincing argument to buy Bluestar.

It all comes down to your needs, wants and resources. I know some people that have kitchens that some pro chefs would give their eye-teeth for but the rest of the house is a shack. These folks happen to be very passionate about food and are willing to make sacrifices in other areas to make the kitchen of their dreams possible. Some people want the high end stuff but their cooking styles just don't justify it or maybe they do but they can't afford it. Bluestar does make a 24" range BTW - maybe scaling down will allow you to have the adequate ventilation system you need and the brand of stove you want.

I'm just grasping at straws here but I get the feeling that even if you found a 30" Bluestar or Bertazonni that just squeaked in under your upper budget limit, you wouldn't have the funds available to accommodate the proper ventilation system. This can be remedied by scaling down. I'd rather see someone have a smaller Bluestar than a 30" GE or even Bertazonni. There are a lot of choices to be made but they can only be made in consideration of what's important to you. Don't rush into something you will regret. Make a calculated decision that achieves the best compromise between size, brand and budget. A bigger stove just gives you more burners etc, a quality stove gives you quality no matter how many burners you have and stove quality is better than quantity. I'd rather have 4 burners I love than 6 I hate but that is up to you to make that choice. Good luck with your decision!
Sleepyhollow

thoefen--you aren't saying that your existing vent hood is 18 inches WIDE, are you? I'm assuming you mean it is 18" deep or maybe 18" high......?

This is starting to get more frustrating then I thought. Right now I have a 30 inch wide by 18 inch deep hood (~25 inches from the stovetop to the hood). I have no idea how many cubic feet per minute it draws? Sleepyhollow I know this is a well debated topic here after reading posts on this site for the past week but just about every installation guide suggests something like I already have. Look at the installation guide for an entry level GE electric range and it suggests the same thing as a GE Café DF range. The Bluestar manual doesnÂt even recommend anything. It says to consult with the dealer or installer. The Bertazzoni simply states you should conform with the appropriate national and local standards (which I donÂt think there are any are there?). The hood extends 5 inches in front of the cabinets and vents directly outside. If I have a 22,000 BTU or 15,000 BTU burner or a 3,000 watt element on an electric range it is still going to get oil in a pan VERY hot and sear a tuna pretty darn good. That is the issue we are talking about isnÂt it? I will run into the same problems you are talking about with an electric range as well wonÂt I or did I miss something. A 24" range isnÂt an option as it will require installing new countertops which isnÂt going to happen right now.

I love to cook. It isnÂt my profession but I cook 5-7 nights a week and love every minute of it. I have been miserable the past 5 years with the electric range I have had in my house. Now I have the opportunity to add a gas or DF range. I have a gas line and a 220 connection already hooked up. This morning I would have ranked them:

#1 - The Bluestar RNB (if I can get it for $3000 or else it moves down to #3)
#2 Â The Bertazzoni
#3  The GE Café

Now I am not sure if I can get any of them? After talking to the salesman this afternoon I would rank them Bert, GE and then BS. I still am not sure what an American Range would go for? What range would work for my given setup?

Thanks all!

thoefen - you should be fine with the Bluestar or any other range that you want. I have a DCS with 17.5K burners and my 600 CFM hood is only 19" deep and works reasonably well. Is it ideal - no - but I already had 6" ducting and was limited in my hood choice. The hood sucks up most of the heat, grease, odors, etc. I do occasionally have to clean the outer front of the hood because it does get greasy. Ideally, a 24" or 27" deep hood would be better but I didn't have that option. The fact that you have a hood that vents outside puts you in a good position. Go for the range you want. You're absolutely right that it's what you're cooking, not the range itself, that matters most. Yes, you can burn things more quickly on a 22K Bluestar burner :-), but you can do pretty well with any other range. If I were you, I'd go for the Bluestar if that's what you want.

Thoefen,

Are you having fun yet. I warned you didn't I?

The Bluestar gets my vote as well. You love to cook, this is a no brainer. Beg, borrow, steal.

michaelp

I'd get the Bluestar hands down if they'll do it for that price. But, you may want to end up upgrading your ventilation at a later time. I think what you have is a stadard "builder's grade" type vent hood that probably vents 200-300 CFM. That's OK with most consumer grade ranges (I don't think it's enough for the Cafe either, though) but when you start getting power boil burners above 15K, you start being maxxed out. In your situation though, you do have external ventilation on board, and even though it's not ideal at this time, as long as you know that and have an alternative plan for when you really start the smoke going (fan in a window?) you'll be OK until you can upgrade at a later time. But, I'd definately plan on upgrading later. 600 CFM would be my low end choice.

Thanks! I will keep that in mind.

Track down the American and throw that in the circle. I know you mentioned you haven't gotten the info yet.

Are you aware that you MUST hold open the oven door to ignite the oven on the Bertazzoni? It is the way it is designed. Open the door, hold in the knob and count "a few seconds" until ignition. You have to do this any time you turn the oven on. For instance, if you are cooking, take something out, turn it all off and then figure out you need to put it back in - go through it all again. I would rate the Bertazzoni lower than any of your other choices. Also, the oven cooling fan runs all the time - any time the oven is on.

The Blue Star is of course great! But, if you opt out of that - do consider the American.

The American 30" gas range ARR3041 (4 burners, at BTUs of 17,17,13 and 9K) sells for $2999 online at Universal.

If it's as good quality as the few reviews I've seen indicate, it might be a good candidate for you.

Down the spectrum a bit is, surprisingly, the Frigidaire PLCS389EC, a 30" DF slide-in with burners rated at 16, 14, 9.5 and 5K. I wouldn't mention it except you're considering a GE Cafe, and I think they're more or less in the same category. It's owned and made by Elecrolux now, and has a good reputation. It looks pretty nice, too, with a non-smudging SS front. I saw it in person and thought it looked better than I expected from the pictures. The price has come way down. Lowe's is selling it somewhere in the $1300 range, with a $150 mail-in rebate offer good until Dec. 15 or 16th. That means you'd pay about $1250.

Here's a link to it: frigidaire DF range

It's a nervewracking decision, I know, we just went through it. Good luck.

Oh, I forgot to say that you won't have to pay full price if you go with the GE Cafe. I've seen the DF as low as $2049 at a local place. I don't know how some places, like HD, can ask $2699 for it.

Where have you seen the DF for $2049. I was going to buy it at HD but was going to have them price match Best Buy. I just checked BB and their price went up. GE has 20% of until tomorrow (I think). If anyone has a better price so I can price match let me know ASAP please.

I just haven't had the time to call the American Range dealer. To be honest most of the pricing I have seen has been higher then $2999 so I figured it was mostly above my price range.

Yes, I did read about the Berta and the oven and I am fine with that. It worries me a little that the burners don't have the power that most ranges have?

thoefen - are you the only cook in the house? the only reason I mention that is because my husband could not get the hang of the oven on the Bertazzoni and would not use it at all. I also have had "guest" cooks (my aunt, mom, etc.) and none of them would use it either. My son, just learnign to cook also refused. If you consider it as a top runner I would really encourage you to see it hooked up and working. That would also give you a chance to see the power. If I recall the front right burner was great. The others OK. The folks that have our range now had not been cooking on gas and were fine with the way it worked. It was very different for me and I did not like waiting 15-18 seconds for the oven to light while holding in the knob with the door open.

Good luck!

You should be able to find an American around the price you mentioned.

Get the scratched BS. You don't HAVE to turn up the burners all the way! :)

(And it's apparently not too hard to move the burners around--you can put the high output ones in the back so you have better coverage from the hood.)

Yes, I am the only cook in the house (which I love since I get to make whatever makes me happy). I have read the same thing before. At that price point though ($2100 for a 30" gas range) it does seem appealing.

My bad, I thought the hood width thofen was referring to was 18"... I was picturing one of those recirculating type things except that this one vented outside... That's certainly better than what I was picturing but I would definately want to get full front to back coverage. My vote is the Bluestar, but it's obviously your money :)

It is just about crunch time. I will call the BS retailer that had the scratched unit and try and get a showing. Tomorrow the GE sale ends if I want to go that route. Aaaahhhhhh!!!

BS vs GE....get the Blue....

Clearly get what you want, but also consider what you need. We went through the same thought process about 5 years ago. I was convinced that I was going to buy a Wolf, then a Heartland Metro. In the end I couldn't justify the $3K+ price tag. We ended up getting the Frigidaire dual fuel, and at the time the burners were rated slightly lower than they are now, maybe 14K, 11K and 5K. Came with convection and a warming drawer.

After five years of cooking, I can say this was the perfect compromise. I cook a lot. I'd probably want higher BTU's if I did a lot of Wok cooking, but I don't do that much, and the few times I've done it the 14K burner was fine. The simmer burner is good, and the overall versatility has met my needs.

I have to say that I was seduced by the pro ranges, but practically speaking, didn't need them. Indeed, if you look at one of the Wolfgang Puck Xmas specials from a couple years ago, he's cooking on a GE. All the folks on this board who advocate the behemoth pro ranges may scream when I say this, but I don't think the equipment is all that important, and most anything you get that costs you in your price range will certainly do what you need it to do.

Equipment is important in terms of efficiency and certain results. A well made pro range can put a sear on a steak like nobodies business and do it quickly. It can bring a huge pot of water to boil fast enough to get other dishes started at almost the same time. I'm sure the Frigidaire gets the job done but not as fast and without the excitement and emothion that the shear power of massive BTU's bring to the party.

What is important is definitly in the eyes of the beholder.

michaelp

& for my money, it isn't just about the high (although, it *is* somewhat as I didn't like the 12.5KBTU max power I had on my pre-remodel range) it is about the lows, too. You don't get the awesome low BTUs on the more prosaic units. I have the Wolf dropin cooktop with a "mere" 15KBTUs which I don't have regular use for although I don't do any deep frying (onions or garlic is about my frying max). I do sear my vegetables on occasion and the 15K has been awesome for the water boiling and the few stir fries I've done (and burnt!). However, the low simmer is the most winningest feature of them all to me. I use it regularly - far more often than the 15k high.

Will the range be between two cabinets? I noticed the GE Cafe has black sides not ss that would be exposed if it was in an open area. Not anything that impacts you cooking but not sure if it would matter to you.

Just mentioning it...

thoefen,

sorry i didn't get back sooner, i was away all day. the $2049 price is at a local appliance store, called lew white appliance, in western connecticut. i doubt it's the only place with that low price. they told me if they didn't compete with the big stores they'd be out of business. GE's 20% off offer is pretty close in price.

between the BS, the Cafe, and the Frigidaire, you have three good options. the differences i see between the Cafe and the Frigidaire are: appearance -- the Cafe looks more pro; second oven, tho the bottom oven in the Cafe apparently takes quite a long time to heat up and is literally inches off the floor, so i'm not sure how useful it'll be; the bridge burner, which i haven't seen any feedback on -- it seems kind of small; the price -- at $1250, the Frigidaire is the best deal around, given its features. i have no experience with the BS, but it's intriguing.

good luck and let us know what you decide.

The BS was a little bit more beat up then I wanted. It was dented and scratched. I love the look of the Berta and would love to get one but I just paid a bunch of money to get a 220 and now would need a 110 so I would be paying more. I know the GE Cafe isn't a pro range but it still has some serious BTU's and I like the look. I got it through some strange set of circumstance but ended up paying around $2200 (including tax, shipping and a charge to take my old range away). I would rather of had a BS but I am still happy with my purchase. I didn't have the money for the BS. I will let you know how it works out. Thanks again for all of your help.

T

congrats and good luck!

Enjoy!

thoefen, I am anxious to hear how you like your Cafe. Are you on Propane or Natural gas?

It will be natural gas. I can't wait. Now I just need to find someone who sells the option backsplash guard for less then $299!!!! If anyone knows where I can get one let me know.