I'm not brutuses (nor do I play brutuses on TV, but:) you are doing absolutely the right thing. If there is heaven, you will go there. You know you're doing positively the right thing, on many levels.

Been there, done it myself sooo many times . . . good for you.

happykate: thank you, thank you! I guess one of my reservations is what if they were planning to breed these cats? They're quite beautiful; one appears to be burmese. But then, would they take equal care of the kittens as they currently are of these two?

You've done this with cats you KNEW belonged to neighbors? That's the thing; I know these aren't strays or feral.

pinktoes - we did the same thing a few years back. Our neighbors had cats and we ended up feeding them. They never would let us near them but one day I heard little tiny cries and yep, kittens. They were in my back yard and I brought them in the house and momma cat followed me in. The next month you would have thought that cat was in heaven. I felt bad but she was so skinny and the neighbors never paid any attention to the poor things. The daddy cat left and never came back....I think he was sick and went off and died. Once the kittys were old enough I took them to our vet who took them in and cared for them and found them homes. The momma we spayed. She would wonder over to the neighbors house every so often and she asked me one day if we spayed her. I said yes and I hoped she did not mind and she thanked me. Said she loved the cat but they could not afford to care for it the way it should have been cared for. We ended up taking her ( the cat, not the neighbor) with us when we moved (I asked if we could). She was such a sweet girl. She got out one night and got hit by a car. I was sick about it and of course filled with guilt. I kept thinking if I had just left her she would have been safe, but DH said she probably would have died from starving to death.

I think what you are doing is a good think Pinktoes. There are way to many dogs and cats as it is. Good luck!

Kelly

Yup. More than once, too, in a neighborhood much like yours. Never, never, had a single qualm. Or problem.

The only iffy thing that I ever saw was when our next door neighbor 'adopted' a 'stray'; it showed up every afternoon, ate, and usually slept there. Didn't live inside.

They took the cat to the vet for the complete round of vaccines, had him fixed, and, a couple of days after that, the cat starting acting ill. Didn't eat, laid around in little hiding places. My conjecture is that the cat had ALREADY been vaccined and that the double dose had, mildly, poisoned him. So, there's that concern.

Couple of weeks later, after the cat had recovered, he showed up one afternoon next door for his regular meal wearing a flea collar! I wonder what his other family thought when they saw that he was fixed! Apparently, they never cared enough to keep him at home. (Or have him fixed themselves.)

In any case, you're doing the good thing.

Kelly: thank you for the encouragement. I just came in from petting the huge male. He's not feral; more likely abandoned. He calmed right down when I got still, stroked him. Then I kept my hand on his back and he settled enough to drink about a cup of fresh water. (With the drought here there's little water around.) And then he ate a ton of food while I talked quietly to him. He has 3 clean-looking fight- wounds (typical unneutered tomcat) and if we can get him to the vet he's going too! He looks exactly like the young female. Maybe he's her father, but I never saw him at the neighbor's house.

Now DH will start torturing himself about what will happen to all these extra, outdoor cats when we move. I told him that if we win the lottery we'll set up our current house plus a cash foundation. Caretakers can live here and care for the cats. Just like Ernest Hemingway!

I know a young couple, no kids yet, and they LOVE cats. They live behind my brother in law. They have taken in a few stray cats. Somehow they get them to stay in and not want to go back outside. Well, I know how they do it. They have a cat room. Yep, a cat room. Cat nip plants, toys, window seats you name it! A room (and it is big!) that is just for the cats. They have tunnels that go all around the room and if I remember right there is one that goes through out the house. The cats love it! DH talked about doing that in our old house for our cat Sammy. When we move into the new house we are getting DD a kitten for Christmas. She wants it to have babies so bad but we are trying to tell her why that is not a good idea. BUT, we do plan on getting two other cats for mostly outside (but they are always welcome inside and for sure when it is cold out!!)for the critters we want to keep away. They will be fixed of course. I think we are going to have a small farm! She wants sheep, one horse, a cow (NOT going to happen)and lots of cats and dogs. We plan on no more then 3 cats, 2 dogs, NO horse (neighbors on both sides have horses, we can visit theirs) and NO NO NO cow OR sheep! Goodness, no wonder she wants to be a vet! LOL!

Speaking of animals, I can hear DD talking to the dogs and she is putting "necklaces" on the golden and the lab....I better go investigate this! This can not turn out good for the dogs or her!

Oh, pinktoes, it's so good that you're taking that male in as well! Poor guy; his life will improve after that.

I'm with your DH; it was really hard to think of leaving those cats behind when we moved; about the best you can do is make sure that (after they've recovered from their surguries) they don't become dependent on you. And how are you supposed to do that? if you don't feed them, no one does.

As our time to leave drew near I went on a big big! Â cat adoption program. I'm computer skilled, took digital photos, made each cat a 'sell sheet' with their pictures & listing all their best qualities that I posted at work, the vet, and other places where I knew I could trust the people. Managed to find good homes for the last four in the last two months we were there.

Boy, it's hard, isn't it? But in the still, dark hours of the night I'm still happy that sweet old Bucky has a home . . .

Good for you, Kelly! It certainly sounds as though you're heading the right way with all your animals (and animals to be!) Hope you can hold your ground about the kittens! DD would probably like for YOU to have a baby too!

Pinktoes, sorry I'm so late seeing your message. You are doing absolutely the right thing. In most States, including mine, any animal at large is considered a stray and if you want to do anything to "help" that animal it is perfectly legal. Me, I was doing this sort of thing long before I learned it was legal. It's the right thing to do, that's all I'm concerned about.

If when you move you are unable to take the cats you are feeding outside, do get in touch with some rescue groups to let them know. The person coming behind you could very well be a cat hater and would harm the cats. Cats, even though outside, if cared for and fed regularly, lose their ability to "hunt" for food of any kind and will starve to death without someone within a few feet to feed them. I saw this happen to many animals after Katrina. Their owners had left and no one knew they left the animals, and they came back to find they had starved to death. In some cases food was just a 1/2 a block away, but they didn't know to go look for food. It was so horrible.

Good for you that you are taking the initiative to care for these cats. If more people had the heart to do what you are doing, thousands wouldn't be suffering and dying in the shelters and on the streets. God bless you.

brutuses: thank you. I'm glad you mentioned letting some rescue folks know when we move. I can do that through our vet and our local pet sitter, who also does rescue work. Our vet built a special glass-front "adoption center" for cats in his waiting room and it's now overrun and has been expanded into wire cages. Which is helpful in that you can see and touch. DH counted 15 in there the other day. So his hands are full. He also ends up keeping some with medical needs or that don't adopt out as hospital "mascats" with roaming around privileges. People love to pet them.

DH is trying to find them homes already; I'll tell him to take those photos and do a "sell" sheet--great idea!

I wasn't sure about the legalities, but I figured I'd just keep quiet and pretend ignorance if asked. We'll ask our vet also about GA laws.

Thank you again. If I run into a problem can I just call you out on this forum for help?

I can't do anything but offer support, but if this thread surfaces again I'll certainly check in & do just that. Sounds like you've got plans in motion; wish you the very, very best in them!

Kate.

To everyone who has offered encouragement and tips, many thanks. I GOT THE PRIZE AT NOON TODAY: managed to entrap the huge unaltered male, whose wounds are now badly infected. He's at the vet getting leukemia and AIDs testing; if he's clear, his leukemia vaccination; full shots; wound care; and neutering! Yea! I'm still shaking from our mutual trauma; he's a handsome, scarey, sweet panther of a beast.

I had a serious talk with him in the car and told him he's welcomed to stick around. And that after today he might find he has a different perspective on life and would enjoy the quiet life in my back yard. LOL! Spent the last couple of hours making a temporary shelter and a dried-in feeding station for him.

The young female is still elusive and shys from touch, so she's going to be the bigger problem. The young male is a real love boy; even DH can grab him. I'll get her, too, in time. I hope. Before there are kittens. I hope.

i don't know about GA, but here if you take care of an animal for 48 hours you can legally claim ownership. my wife used to work for a vet and that was how they would take an animal from irresponsible owners. we had a black lab wander up once, we put out ads and everythign, no one claimed him. 2 months later soemone tried, but he would not go with them. i told them to kiss off and kept him. if he had acted like he wanted to go with them, i would have let him, but since he was scared of them, and he obviously knew them, i refused and the law was on my side.

personally, i would never have an animal fixed that i KNOW belongs to someone else, or not without their permission. i can tell you that if someone had surgery done on an animal of mine i would do all i could to make their life hell.

don't get me wrong, i get my animals fixed as soon as they are old enough. and i believe everyone should do the same. but i have enough respect for others not to force them to fix theirs.

if you really wanted to solve the problem, you should hav etalked to them first. then called animal control to round up the stray cats. then they would require they be fixed before adoption.

david, it is obvious you don't deal with animal rescue and don't have an idea of what is going on in the streets as it relates to animals. Those of us who care more about the animals well being than some human's hurt feelings won't stop doing what we do to save their lives.

No, I have no respect for someone who throws their animal in the street to suffer the consequences. To mention a few, death by car, infection with Feluk/aids, having babies to suffer on the street, being killed by dogs or people, being dowsed with acid, and the list goes on and on.

Your ideal solution is great, but let me enlighten you. Humane societies and aniaml shelters do not "round up" stray cats. It's not in their job description no where in the US that I know of. If you have an animal trapped or caged, someone will come get it. Some will come out to pick up injured animals, but they also have to be "gift wrapped." Others insist you bring it in. 99% of aniamls rescued off the streets are rescued by caring individuals, not governement run agencies. Also, if the humane society in her area did come to "round up" the cats, the tom would have been put to sleep, no doubt. His wounds would have dictated his future. Chances for the other two would be slim to none as far as being adopted. More than 10 million animals are killed in shelters every year because there are not enough good homes for them all. The ones who die first are the ones who come in off the street, whether they are previous pets or strays.

You had better hope that if your animal gets out one day a caring person like Pinktoes picks it up and not the animal shelter. And if she chooses to have your animal spayed or neutered, then thank her because she did the responsible thing.

There are millions of homelss cats that no one cares about. People like Pinktoes and AuntJen and thousands of others make a difference in the lives of a few animals and if everyone took their initiative, showed their heart, didn't mind spending the money, there wouldn't be millions of cats on the street suffering.

When a human shows no respect for an animal's life, I show no respect for them.

Pinktoes did the right thing morally and legally. Do not insult her for doing the right thing. Because of her, these cats will no longer suffer and that sir, deserves a big thank you from those who prefer to sit on the sidelines and pass judgement while others clean up the mess made by uncaring humans.

Pinktoes you can contact me through this forum or send me a personal e-mail. My address is listed at the top of this thread by my name. I do hope the tom comes back negative for the feluk/aids viruses. They are so suseptible when they are out there fighting, etc.

In trying to trap the female, why don't you try to get your friend to help you humanely trap her. It's no big deal. If your friend isn't familiar with trapping, find someone in your area who is. There are usually rescuers who will come out and trap for inexperienced folks like yourself. It is unnerving, but after the first 100 you get use to it. LOL

yes, i do deal with animal rescues. not as much as i used to, but i have done it for years. i do everythign in my power to keep ANY animal from having to go to the pound, but i will not kidnap a neighbor's "pet" and fix it just because i think it should be. if the animal was that bad off, then a visit from the authorities for neglect was in order. the only way to stop animal overpopulation is to educate owners/potential owners. stealing their pet and then having it fixed is NOT the way to go. and that is exactly what is going on here.

if it were a true stray, then i would have no problem. but doing this without even asking is wrong, AND can be illegal. unless you can prove that you had no knowledge the animal belonged to them and that you had taken care of it long enough to consider it your animal, then it is illegal.

the lady who runs the city shelter here was my mom's best friend and mother of my best friend. my wife's uncle runs an animal rescue unit and even gets food by the trailer load and takes it to the shelters and to people who cannot afford to feed the pets they have. anytime a stray animal wanders up at my house, we have a special pen that we put them in and run ads to find their owner. if the owner cannot be found in a reasonable amount of time, we find a new owner that we KNOW will take of the animal. and the last one the reasonable amount of time was 1.5 months. the day before a new owner was to get it, teh original owner called us. he had looked everywhere, but disregarded our notice for being the wrong part of the county. turns out someone had picked his pup up, then dumped it close to our house. he had been constantly checking the shelters and finally saw a poster we had put up.

like i said earlier, i am all for spaying and neutering, every animal i have ever owned has been fixed, but NOT if the rightful owner does not wish to fix them. i have seen people taken to small claims court and sued over this very thing. more often than not, they lose and have to pay the owners restitution. with the current trend putting more value on the life of a pet, one day this type action will result in SERIOUS consquences.

all i can say is you should have asked before you did it. if they told you no, then deal with it.

the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Pinktoes, I will not discuss this on this board any further. If you need me for anything, please send me a private e-mail.

brutuses: Well said, and I applaud you for your work with animals; it isn't nearly as easy as people may think. I just came back from the vet. Daddy Suede, the big tom, had already been neutered, and from the placement of his wounds the vet guessed DS was trying to run away from the fight.

Vet said he's about 8 years old. He was FIV positive, of some months duration, though not full-blown Aids. We had a long talk about that, and what his options are, the possibility of finding a single-cat, strictly indoor home for him; blah,blah,blah. You know the chances of that.

So, we agreed that the responsible thing to do, because of the risk he would pose in the wild with spreading Aids (even though not through mating) was to euthanize him. So, he had wound care today (hope that made him feel a bit better; it looked bad) and spent his last day with the staff there, who are always wonderful with the animals. They all do rescue work and adoptions in their SPARE time!

How quickly I bond with animals. It's always so hard to come home for the last time without one. Days like today make me just hate being an adult.

I have gotten instructions in the past from a rescuer here and I have 2 of the right traps, which is how I got my current cat and her kitten several years ago. I'm sure I won't have to trap the 2 young cats. The female let me pick her up tonight for petting. She seemed more settled with Daddy Suede gone. No wonder--he bopped her with his foot and I heard the thump this am when she came near the food. Her male sib will hardly leave us alone; these cats are pets, just neglected.

She looks so much like Daddy Suede that she could be his kitten. Even without that remote possibility, today's events raise the question of how the 2 young cats will test out at the vet. And what kinds of decisions will need to be made. And if they're FIV-positive how do I deal with my neighbor, of course. (She saw me holding her male today, petting him. That was unfortunate.) I have no clue what to do in that eventuality. So, I might be emailing you; thanks for the offer.

I'm supposed to be finalizing some things this week on the new house and our budget and that sort of thing. Not important and my heart is not in it.

brutuses: I was typing while you and davidandkasie were typing. So I posted the above message before I read either his/hers or yours. Sorry to have dragged you into this kind of unnerving discussion.

I won't post any further on this board about it either.

Thanks everyone. I have no question about the morality of any of my actions related to these 3 cats. My uncertainties always lie in how to deal with the other humans involved. I got out of the car at the vet this morning, and got down on the pavement at his level and looked Daddy Suede in the eye. He stopped wailing and held my gaze. I told him softly that I was going to take care of him. And I have no doubt that I kept my promise. That I did the best thing for him, and for the other cats around. And it was not my favorite type of thing to do.

I will deal with the humans involved with these other two cats. When people neglect the animals they've taken in, then they lose all respect from me. My only concern becomes how to best handle the people so that they will not become a further impediment in obtaining the best for that animal. The humans may have legal rights, but they have no other consideration from me.

I'm not much impressed by lawsuits. They can be dealt with; they're sadly, another unbecoming human behavior. And if I were ruled by financial concerns, I sure wouldn't be paying for food, vet care, and cremation expenses for animals that other people have an obligation to care for. Lawyers and money judgments are just one more annoying and irrelevant part of the mix. If I let those sorts of things affect my moral judgments, what kind of life would I be living?

It's part of my personal faith, if you will, that we all, all species, have certain inalienable rights. No one "owns" an animal the way they "own" a car. It has a spirit--can't be "owned".

You are DEFINITELY doing the right thing! There is nothing more horrendous than a baby 6-8 month old kitten having kittens herself~same for all animals.

Very sorry you had such a bad day, Pink. It was bad for Daddy Suede too, but he was lined up for nothing but worse day after worse day. Sometimes it's very hard to do what we should. Hope things are good with the other two cats.

Kate.

Pink, so sorry you had to let him go. You did the right thing for him and God bless you for that.