Green Glue between DensGlass and plywood
tcjohnsson
15 years ago
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mightyanvil
15 years agolast modified: 9 years agotcjohnsson
15 years agolast modified: 9 years agoRelated Discussions
Particleboard vs plywood /melamine vs vinyl
Comments (12)I love this forum, thank you all so much for your responses! wizardnm-Thanks for posting those pics and clarifying your cab construction. You know, I'm not sure how to answer your question if my guy is trying to "get out of" applying the melamine as his shop. He indicated he'd priced having someone else apply it and when he got the price, it put the material way ahead price wise of the other choices. johnnyl53 and cheri127, your posts are really putting my mind at ease RE: particleboard. I know the majority of cabinets are probably constructed with particle board, but it still helps to know that others have chosen them and that they'd held up well. I saw a sample of the vinyl covered plywood and didn't like how the edges could already be separated from the plywood core. By contrast the melamine covered particleboard was adhered perfectly and seemed like it would clean up nicely. I also had a chat with the cabinet guy about my various concerns... RE: formaldehyde outgassing, he emphasized the the exposed edges of the materials are when the materials outgas the most (i.e. at the shop during fabrication) and he felt that those edges are then contained pretty well with edgebanding and/or the solid wood door faceframes. (I guess similar to if you have asbestos or lead paint; it's ok/safe to seal them in with paint, but cutting into them/creating dust is the hazardous part.) RE: particleboard vs plywood, he feels both have sufficient strength/longevity in terms of resisting shelf sagging etc, but that plywood had the upper hand as far as impact resistance. (e.g. you throw a baseball and it would dent the particle board more easily than plywood.) Given that these are combined with the solid wood faceframes, I'm not sure whether that is even an issue I need to worry about. At this point (unless I get some more feedback here otherwise) I'm inclined to go with the formaldehyde free melamine coated particle board. He's estimating it might be $100-150 dollars for the formaldehyde free materials, which is worth my peace of mind about that issue. I know the melamine will clean up well/be more easy care than the vinyl or painted surfaces. And by choosing the melamine particleboard I won't have to worry about whatever aftermarket adhesive chemicals would be used to bond the melamine to a plywood core. Thank you all again!...See Morecabinet construction - plywood box v. particle board
Comments (29)I seem to have gotten confused on the Shenandoah construction thicknesses. For one, sides are 1/2". So disregard whatever I noted if you're considering this line. Funny, I'm looking over these nearly 40 year old junkers that are still standing. They were even uninstalled and shuffled around 30 years ago. The cheap wood grained laminate doors had been replaced. The sides and back seem to be a 1/4" particle board type product. Some of it also looks like luan but is painted and might be particle board. One shelf is loose and I can see the particles on the box side. Particle board 3/4" shelves chipping along the edge but strong. It seems to be solid 3/4" framing for the faces and hanging rail. They are still standing and doing their job! The side panel on the sink base has popped out and it's really bad construction otherwise. The boxes were painted and doors replaced so they don't look as bad as all that. The painted raised panel replacement doors have held up well for nearly 30 years. They look to be solid wood. The only real damage to the finish is on the raised panel edge of the two drawer fronts under the counter. They've lost finish and are chippy because the counter's drip edge doesn't project out far enough. I'm very surprised to see that situation on a lot of store display installations. The cabinets are just about even with the 25" counter edge. That's bad news for finishes. I'll be getting 26" counters for a good drip edge to protect the finish below. Right, the finish will probably not last 30 years and I'll have to deal with repainting whatever I get. I doubt the stains these days hold up that long either. A lot of them look layered and baked on like the paints to me. But hopefully the cabinets themselves will be decently built and still holding together well. I don't know why that would change unless someone was hanging on the doors or overloading areas with very heavy items, as livewire mentioned. The older builder type homes from 40-50 years or so ago seem to get there. They can just look dated at this point. Maybe they all do this but Shenandoah is calling their mdf type cabinets 'engineered wood' which I think is misleading since it makes it sound like standard construction is plywood....See MoreGreenGlue expansion/contraction causing cracks on the walls?
Comments (6)That was what I was getting at with who the workers were and what there level of experience was. GG is used everyday all over the country I would have guaranteed the rep would have given you that answer. Are these guys actually drywall contractors?...See MoreSound proof between floors, new construction
Comments (31)Let's actually set this right. There are NOT three different methods of sound transmission, that is either way over-simplified or over-complicated, depending on the view that you want to take. Building designers have created a checklist to deal with building design and sound transmission. But that is because building designers have enough stuff to deal with without getting into the physics of mechanical waves when designing a building. There is exactly one method of sound transmission in buildings, on earth, in space, etc. Sound is a mechanical wave, or energy that travels through matter by disturbing it. More specifically even, it is the displacement of matter from its equilibrium position and that displacement as well as the rebounding of material is what moves sound through all matter, including air and walls, it is also the lack of matter to disturb that stops sound from moving through outer space. Sound is easy to understand as work, as sound encounters various forms of matter it expends effort to move through the material, even air, that is why decibels are lessened over distance. There are really only two ways to reduce sound, require more work and convert the work (technically there are three, but locate your basement in outer space seems a bit extreme). More mass means sound has to work harder to move the material, not unlike throwing a boulder compared to throwing a pebble. So one simple way to reduce sound transmission is to add more mass. The other is to convert sound to other forms of energy, usually heat energy. This is what resilient materials such as rubber and cork do. Think hitting someone with a bat versus hitting someone with a foam pole. ---------- Now all of this may seem immaterial to the discussion at hand but it really isn't. Building designers, especially when designing commercial buildings, have broken sound transmission into three very broad categories that they need to address in the design of a building. However, not every situation requires considering those things as they are presented, nor are those three things adequate in other situations. The final, and really more important point for homeowners, is the cost of effective design versus the cost of effective treatment. No one who actually works in theater installation and design really spends their day looking after these "three sound transmission characteristics" of building design. And no one creating sound isolation booths for recording studios would think addressing those three things are remotely adequate. I have both a home theater and a sound isolation booth in my house. There are thousands of installers, and hundreds of home theater and listening room designers who all use the same four steps for sound proofing: (1) sealing, (2) adding mass, (3) decoupling, and (4) dampening (note: that dampening is often separated into dampening and absorbing for ease of understanding). Any approach using these four steps, even in a cost effective manner, will adequately address sound transmission for most needs. Just to be clear it absolutely deals with airborne, flanking and impact transmission, it is well detailed in the material I directed the OP to. So any assertion that no one has dealt with that, is absolutely wrong. If you are building a sound isolation booth for a home recording studio, this is a good start, but by no means complete. However, you are going to have to get into specific attenuation at that point, at which time I would advise visiting the gearslutz.com or SoundonSound.com sites to get more information....See Moresierraeast
15 years agolast modified: 9 years agomightyanvil
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