I had the same thing happen with cupcake pans. The crumbs were still there. I used the short cycle and had them laid on the top rack. I'll be interested to see what others say. BTW same model. Are you having a problem with spotting on your cooking pans and silverware?

How much and what type of detergent were you using? New generation dishwashers will definitely clean better when utilizing an enzyme based detergent. Read the list of active ingredients on your detergent box. If you see the word chlorine mentioned, it's not an enzyme based detergent. Enzymes and chlorine are not compatible. Look for a formulation that doesn't include chlorine, which will most likely be enzyme based. I get excellent results in my Miele with Electrosol Tabs (now being rebadged to the Finish brand name), but there are a number of other enzyme based detergents.

Beyond that, there's no dishwasher that will clean every item 100% of the time. There are many variables that will sometimes affect cleaning results. The way the utensil was positioned, how long and to what extent the the food material was cooked on, and other unpredictable circumstances.

That being said, cake pans shouldn't present any particular problems. I've never encountered this situation with my Miele dishwasher. Check your detergent, if it's enzyme based, then try loading the pans differently next time, so that the spray jets are better aimed at heavily soiled areas. I think once you get more used to loading and using your new dishwasher, you'll get better results. I almost always get satisfactory results, but every now and then, I load something wonky, and I need to run it through again.

lucypwd, are you using a rinse aid like Jet-Dry? These machines require a rinse aid for optimal results. Is your machine indicating that softener salt is needed? If so, regardless of how soft you think your water might be, add salt to the machine. You shouldn't be getting water spots if you're using a rinse aid or your water is appropriately softened.

We have 2 Excellas & everything gets clean. We use enzyme based detergent (Cascade Complete), JetDry, & Somat salt. I usually put cake pans more horizontal than vertical, usually in the middle basket.

I used the miele tabs which supposedly are 3 in 1 s. We don't need softener and the machine isn't calling for it either. The spots are on silvrware.I"m hoping they come off with silver polish.

Did the baking pans have straight sides? I usually don't place deep pans with straight sides on the sides of the racks because the straight side will block the spray coming from underneath so that the center of the item and perhaps the area near the sides will not clean well. I will place bowls with curved sides in this area because the water still has a chance to spray up over the sides and into the item.

See the pictures below:

In the bottom rack I have the blue cheese casserole at an angle so there is some direct spray hitting the interior. The next picture shows a bowl on the side but it is not deep and it's sides are flared. No problem cleaning this when on the side.

The middle rack.

Most of the time I place bowls in the bottom rack, but for this load I had them in the middle. They are on an angle and facing the spray.

lower rack with with cheese casserole before wash:

{{gwi:1483503}}

{{gwi:1483504}}

{{gwi:1483505}}

Lower rack with cheese casserole after wash:
{{gwi:1483506}}

{{gwi:1483507}}

Cutlery tray and middle rack before wash:

{{gwi:1483508}}

{{gwi:1483509}}

Cutlery tray and middle rack after wash:

{{gwi:1483510}}

{{gwi:1483511}}
This load contained baked on cheese items that had been sitting in the Dw for 2 days, so I used the cheese cycle for this load. This cycle is probably not necessary for cake pans but there are others available such has heavy soil. Sensor wash is very good so I would try it again but not have the pans on the sides.

I don't think the short cycle is intended for items like cupcake pans. The wash only lasts 12 or 15 minutes and the water used is not very hot. The manual says it is for lightly soiled dishware.

The cycles I use the most are Sensor,Economy,and water saver. For a large load of heavy soiled dishes I may use the Heavy soil cycle, for many items with baked on cheese I use the cheese cycle, and for dishes with a lot of starch and pasta I use the starch cycle. Economy and water saver clean very well and can be quicker than the Normal cycle. The short cycle? It's not intended to deal with much- maybe freshly used coffee cups, or glasses. The manual says to use this for "party dishes" I take this to mean an afternoon tea party.

Thank you all for your suggestions, and special thanks to jerrod6 for those wonderful photos which I printed out. Still on that DW loading learning curve and these may help to have nearby. One remaining question....what cycle would you use to clean these? pots & pans, regular, it doesn't matter. Thanks again to all.

jerrod6,
Apologies, you did give recommendations on what cycles to try for the baked on cake pans. I was so amazed with your photos I didn't catch that on first read. Thanks again for taking the time to respond in such depth.
eggcream

eggcream,

The sensor wash cycle is not intended for baked-on food. For adequate cleaning with backed-on food, you should use the normal cycle, pots/pans, or starch cycle. In fact, I would recommend the starch cycle. I have no trouble getting cake pans clean using the starch cycle on my La Perla.

Also make sure you are using a good detergent like Cascade Complete or their Action Packs. I was using Ecover and Bi-O-Kleen detergents for a while and they cleaned poorly and caused build-up inside the machine.

With regards to your spotting, you should be using a rinse aid even if you don't think you need it. All water contains dissolved solids, which stick to dishes when the water evaporates. Rinse aid causes water to sheet off the surface, therefore nothing to evaporate.

May not be your DW at all. Is your teflon rated DW-safe? Most non-stick coatings are not meant to be washed in the DW for the threat of what the soap can do to them. By the same token, I do believe that they don't wash up well in the DW either.

There is a learning curve to loading all new machines. I purchased my previous Miele Dw in 1996 and even though the racks on this one are similar there is enough of a difference that it still took a while to learn the places for items.

These models have a lot of cycles and they actually are different from one another so that there is usually a cycle that will cover most conditions. It takes a while to figure out which one will work for what you have. I think the differences in the cycles are in the time, temperature and durations. The Excella and Laperla also adjust the water intake amount to the load size so there may be a difference in water consumption also.

Low temperature cycles work very well with normal non baked on items. These cycles would be Economy, and china crystal. Mid range temperatures would be the Normal and water saver cycles. A higher range would be heavy soil, and even higher would be sani, pots & pans, cheese, and starch. The higher range cycles will stay in the wash period longer or may have heated pre washes.

The sensor wash is one of the ones that has a wider range of temperatures it can go low and it can go into the high range(but not into the highest) and it cleans everything well, but I don't think the wash is as persistent as the wash given by heavy soil or some of the other cycles. The Cheese and Starch washes also seem to have different spray patterns than the others.

The cycles in the lower temp range also use a lower temp for the last rinse. The higher the water temp the more effective the drying will be. In the case of the short cycle It uses water around 104F for its short wash and there is no dedicated drying period.

The water temperatures can be increased if you have continual problems.

Miele tabs:

They clean well in cool water. They have 3 layers that provide different formulations, but I don't think they are 3n1 as to imply that you don't need rinseAid. Rinse Aid helps in the drying process. I used to use Electrasol 3n1 tabs with Jet dry. The box warns you that you may still need to have a separate rinse aid. This is because the rinse aid effect is done by carryover. The rinseaid ingredient must be carried over from the wash into the last rinse, so by the time you get to the last rinse you may or may not have enough of the ingredient to do an adequate job.

The new version of Electrasol tabs(red ball) does not have jet dry in them. Instead they say 3n1 action with jet dry shine.

I alternate rinse Aid brands. I currently have Miele rinse aid in the dispenser. Before that I had JetDry green apple and vinegar. They both work well.

After a while you will learn what works best for you.

I hand wash all of my non-stick pans. I've got a 6yr old Miele and it has never been able to clean plastic mixing bowls if leave food in them. Crusted on food comes off if it's glass or dinnerware but other types of materials I end up washing first in the sink and then putting them into the DW to de-grease and sanitize. I also soak all utensils in water first before putting them in the DW, any crusted on food won't come off unless I remove it manually.

They tell you the DW needs food enzymes to work but if I leave food on some things they don't wash off so I'm damned if I do and damned if I dont. I have learned to leave food on slicker surfaces (like glass) while I pre-wash plastics and vessels with nooks and crannies. It's easier for me to hand wash baking pans but if I do put them in I scrub the baked on cake batter out first.

Try using the normal cycle next time when you have things that are baked on such as a cake pan. SensorWash is best for basic place settings. Additionally if using the Miele DW Tabs, they are not a 3-in-one tablet. They have three colors, but do not contain rinse aid or a water softener.

I wash plastic, metals, cast iron and ceramics in my miele which is about 8yrs old. I have no issue with things sticking on them. I don't pre-rinse, I scrape rather loosely and then I put wash with the Sani wash cycle. I use the Miele tabs and Somat rinse aid without any problem. I have one non stick pan that I use for eggs and I wash it by hand because the outside of the pan is not dishwasher safe.

Good luck!

Thanks for the info on the miele tab. What should I program for the type of soap? Should I pick soap only, or 2 in 1 or?? You are right; I thought it was a 3in1 because it has three colors... We have very soft water so I don't think I need salt.
Thanks for the pictures. I see you just really cram it all in there.

I can't put my hands on the manual right now.. Where does the rinse aid actually go? Is it the little door next to the place for the detergent tab?

I should mention what cycle I wash my dishes on so we're not comparing apples and orange. Out of habit I always use the Normal cycle, rarely do I use any of the other cycles (Normal Plus, Pots & Pans, Sani) because I figure they'll take longer and hog up more energy, especially the Sanitize cycle. I probably should do a test to see if these other cycles do a better job than me hand washing first. After all, they say you waste more water hand washing than if you put it in the dishwasher.

My older machine from 1996 had normal 130F and normal 150F. It also had heavy soil 130F and heavy soil 150F. The difference in heavy soil was that there was an extra rinse before the wash. The next machines released had push buttons and they had a cycle named normal plus which was at 150F. When I had stuck on soil or a heavy load I used normal or heavy soil at 150F and got good results.

These models don't have normal 150F. I think Sani wash on these models is 168F and pots and pans, and cheese and starch is in a range up to 170F. Normal on these modles is in a range up to 130F, but they do have the heavy soil cycle which is in the range up to 150F. I used it today and measured the temp after 35 minutes and it was 148.2F.

For Miele tabs I keep the detergent selector set to powder. This is because once the wrapper dissolves the entire thing turns to powder. I did a test and it dissolves in water of 104F. For Gels I set the dispenser to liquid.

In the LaPerla you put the salt in the door like detergent, I am not sure about the excella but starting from the right the first compartment is the rinse aid--you open the door and you will see a spout and grids - you pour the rinseaid into the spout until you see it near the grids, the next compartment door covers the two detergent cups, the last compartment is for the salt.

The Excella's salt compartment is in the bottom, next to the food filter. Miele provides a special funnel (which DW, the other DW, almost threw away). It's cool to watch the salt displace the water in the salt compartment as you pour it in.

While I'm still on the Miele DW learning curve is the use of detergent optional for the pre-rinse when a PR is included in the cycle? The only mention was briefly in the booklet concerning in what cup to put it. What cycles do you include extra detergent for the PR? And BTW you are all terrific to provide so much help. Hope I can return the favor in the future.
EC

I agree with some other postings above about the different cycles--because I have found out from experience in one month with my new Excella. I use Normal almost all the time, Pots and Pans for--pots and pans! In the manual it says that Normal can be used for dried on food--which cannot be said about the Sensor wash. Last week I used Sensor because the dishes barely had anything dried on-BUT I somehow forgot that I had one pot in there that was used for boiling pasta. Well, that pot after the Sensor wash still had residue around the rim. On the Pots and Pans cycle, they do come out shiny and spotless.

However, I recommend against placing ANY Teflon or aluminum in the DW. I know some frying pan manufacturers say it's DW safe, but I have seen haze on Teflon from a DW. I think it is standard practice to not put aluminum in a DW.

Bottom line: use at least the Normal cycle for anything dried on, but just use Pots and Pans if you think you need it.

What detergents are you using?

I use detergent in the prewash cup for the starch and cheese cycles because the prewash for these cycles heat the water to hot. The rest of the prewashes are unheated. There is no point of me spraying detergent around in cool water.

If you are using a tab or detergent pak these cannot be split apart and I think the instructions for most of these says to use them only in the main wash cup. The exception to this are Miele tabs which can be broken apart.

My general rule has been...extra heavy soil..consider adding a small amount to the cup... my regular 2 day load of dried on soil...skip it.

When my DW was installed the certified Miele installer told me never use Cascade. That surprised me because I thought it was the best and why wouldn't I want to use the best. He said it's too harsh, it could cause problems down the road. Better to use Electrasol....and don't buy the tablet with the rinse aid built in. Use Jet Dry in the rinse aid dispenser and keep the two separate. I remember asking him, are you sure this is what Miele recommends and he said yes. So that's what I've been using these past 6 years. I could have also used that European powder they sell at the appliance store but it costs $$$$ so I just stuck with Electrasol and Jet Dry.

Has anything changed regarding recommendations since I bought my appliance? Is Miele now advising customers to use a tablet? Is it OK now to use the all-on-ones with the compressed powder tablet with rinse aid marble imbedded into it? I've been afraid all these years to sway from the installers advice for fear I'll damage the machine. Maybe I should find out what has changed and switch detergent brands. ???

I will relate my experience with my DW bought in 1996 and this current one purchased in 2006. For the previous one Electrasol tabs with jet dry cleaned just fine, but they created a lot of suds. If I opened the door there was at least 1/2 inch of suds on top of the water. I stopped using them and switched to Electrasol powder with chlorine bleach. The manual for my previous DW said not to use Gels or liquids so I never tried those in that machine.

I don't care for the scent of Cascade powders so I've tried them but usually won't buy them due to the scents.

Anyway the new machines allow you to use tabs or liquids because there are settings for different types of detergents. The machine will adapt its behavior to the settings. If you use a tablet with rinseAid built in it will not dispense rinse aid and it will also adjust the cycle for hard tablets. I have say that on the box of tabs containing Jet Dry it says that you may still need to use a separate rinse aid if your water is hard. I used the the tabs with jet dry which were purchased in 2007 and there were no suds, and use the new red ball tab also without suds.

That said I don't think there are any more detergents sold in the USA that contain rinse Aid. The new formulation of Electrasol tabs does not contain jet dry rinse aid, at least not by reading the description on the box. I still have boxes of the old formula and have compared the composition of the tablet as described on the box.

The old formula:

white layer contains detergent
blue layer contains presoakers
the little white ball contains Jet Dry rinse agent.

The new Red Ball formula:

white layer contains detergent
the blue layer contains Jet Dry rinse agent action
the little red ball contains presoakers.
the tab contains etch protector

From this I don't think containing Jet dry and having Jet Dry rinse agent action is the same thing. Maybe I am being to critical but the box says "3n1 100% clean plus Jet-Dry shine"

I also use Electrasol gel pacs and get very good results. These also have Jet Dry rinse agent action and enzymes in the gel. The only thing about pacs and most tablets is that you cannot control the dosage.

I did a dissolve test using a water temp of 104F which is the temp of the short wash. I shook the solution in a bottle which may not be as vigorous as the action inside the DW. I found that:

ElectraSol tabs would not dissolve in 104F.
Cascade powder would not dissolve in 104F
Miele tabs completely dissolved at 104F
ElectraSol powder almost completely dissolved at 104F.
The manual says not to use tabs with the short wash.

So at least with this current model it has sittings for tabs so I guess Miele is saying you can use them.

If anyone knows of a detergent that still contains rinse agent I would like to know. It seems that all detergents now contain some form of etch protector and not rinse aid..I wonder if there is something in these new formulations that increases the chances for etching, thus the protection has been included to help mitigate?

One last thing. I have used Electrasol powder with chlorine bleach in this machine. I used it in the previous one. It works for normal soil, but it does not always clean stuck on baked on items as well as an enzyme detergent. A few weeks ago I tried Electrasol Gel - also with chlorine bleach. It left a white film covering everything in the DW - don't know why but I am not using it again.

So for Gels Cascade Gel and, Electra Sol Gel pacs(no CB) work good in my water conditions. Electra Sol tabs the old and new formulations work well, Miele tabs work well, Cascade action Paks work well. Ecover left grit all over everything including the insides of the machine...NEVER AGAIN. Cascade powder works very well too I just don't like the scent I smell when I dispense it.

Thanks, that was very informative. Considering my DW is gettin' on in years I think I'll stick with Electrasol since it hasn't caused any problems yet. I won't mess with the newer detergent pacs until I get another DW with the detergent options (mine doesn't have that). I just hope Electrasol doesn't go out of business!
That was interesting what you said about Ecover, never tried it but I did make the mistake once of putting kosher salt into the salt reservoir (after reading on this forum it was OK). That salt turned the salt dispenser cap green!

I would try some of the hotter cycles on your things that didn't get clean and see if that helps. I did use Cascade powder in my older machine without problems.

I only use Cascade complete in my machine. The Miele guy who was here today (tech supervisor) approved and said one tablespoon would do the trick. It does!
5 years ago when we installed it, I was advised never to wash Teflon in the DW due to the chemicals in the detergents.

Here's my advise on loading your dishwasher. You must use logic! If bowls are stacked so that no water can get between them, they won't get clean. If you are putting them in almost clean expecting that the dishwasher will sanitize then, that's unhealthy. Whatever dishwasher you have, you must see where the water comes from. For example, if you have something on the middle rack with the dirty side facing up and you have some thing big and flat in the silverware tray that blocks the water from above, the water won't reach that surface. There is no need to leave space between each flat plate. The water will get between them.

If you are prewashing your dishes and placing then in the machine with lots of foaming soap on them, you will get unsatifactory results. A very experienced installer/repairman explained it to me this way. When you wash your dishes in the sink with a high sudsing soap and you let the water down the drain, you have suds left behind in the sink. You would normaly rinse the sink till the suds are gone. The dishwasher doesn't do that and the soap foam stays in the dishwasher and builds up over time. These dishwashers don't need and can't handle all those suds.

I used to put the metal filters from my rangehood into the dishwasher and they alway came out perfectly clean. Then I started to spray them with dawn power desolver. My machines started not to work as well. The repairman set the machine to wash without any soap or detergent, when he opened the machine, the water on the bottom had suds. I had to run the machine on the short cycle several times to clear out the soap reside. Now it words great. I stopped using the dawn. I just throw then in the machine without doing any thing to them first, and they always come out perfectly clean.

It's ironic but teflon doesn't work in the dishwasher. Heavily encrusted, baked on stuff comes off caserole dishes, on the higher cycles, fried eggs on teflon doesn't.