well...i'll chime in for recommendation on miele here. we did a lot of research before choosing the miele. candidates were bosch, asko, lg and kitchenaid.

we have a miele excella dw in our home. we've been using it for about a month now.

one of the primary reasons on why we got a miele was for the very scenario you encountered.

the miele, in my humble opinion, has a superior water detection/shut off mechanism. next in line would be the bosch.

the excella does an excellent job of cleaning. drying is good too, except some on thin plastics (in my research, no dw will do well on this).

i'm pretty sure you won't find miele's at home depot, though. :(

any questions? just ask!

Just to chime in, you can't buy Miele from Home Depot but you can order it from an Expo Design center who will accept your Home Depot Gift card/merchandise credit. I can't recommend a model because I have an older G series Miele but you should look through the various options and then make a selection. Hopefully you live somewhere near an Expo Design center!

Good luck!

We have 2 Miele Excella units, 6 months old, & they're the best we've ever used. We put KitchenAid DWs in our former kitchen 2 years ago to replace horrible JennAir/Maytags; they were so much better that DH asked why I wanted Mieles in the new house we were building. I would pick KitchenAid or Bosch if I couldn't get Miele.

Thank you everyone for the recommendations on Miele (seems like an overwhelming top pick!)

Unfortunately we are a 4 hour drive from the nearest Expo, however that doesn't rule them out for us as our primary concern is getting a *good* dishwasher that doesn't ruin our kitchen! :)

Can anyone give me insight into model choices on the Miele? I notice that Gizmonike and Mando P both chose Excellas. May I ask why the Excella model over another?

Thanks a bunch! I really, really appreciate the information!

below is part of a review i'm working on to post up to epinions. it's a draft, but, hopefully you will get some value from it.

sorry in advance for typos.

--------

First and foremost, HUGE kudos to mothra3 for her great article on Miele dishwashers. In fact, her review of the Novotronic is the base for this review of the Excella G2630SCi that we purchased.

For awhile, I started thinking about getting a dishwasher for our home. My wife and I have two kids under the age of four and we found it harder and harder to find time to clean dishes (we have better things to do!) For four months, I was researching dishwashers, becoming more and more confused along the way. But over time I defined, in order, what key items were important to us...

1. Effective cleaning and drying
2. Superior design and workmanship
3. Quality of material and parts
4. Support
5. Cost

American and Korean (LG) dishwashers were eliminated from our list. Nothing wrong with them, we just didnt believe in some of the "features" than came with them (heating element and food grinder to be precise). We felt these features added to the potential of failure over time (we believe in the KISS method - Keep It Simple Sir). That left us with three top European manufacturers that didnÂt offer these "features..."

1. Miele
2. Bosch
3. Asko

All of the above manufacturers are great. We originally were looking at getting a Bosch (we ruled out the Asko because of potential reliability factors and I have Asko consumer dishwasher here at work and IÂm not too impressed with its performance/durability). However, after doing a ton of research on the items important to us (noted above), we decided to "move up" a notch and target a Miele (we had a GREAT experience with Miele during a "dispute" with one of their vacuum dealers). The model we targeted was the Excella because of the superior rack configuration/flexibility, split cutlery tray, time delay and child lock capabilities (we have little curious folks in our home!).

Considering the unit is not inexpensive, we wanted to be sure of our purchase. My wife and I took a drive to the Miele showroom in Beverly Hills to look at the unit. We were quite impressed. Of course, my wife liked the LaPerla (top of the line Miele dishwasher) but I explained to her that I feel somewhat uncomfortable with a "touch" panel and it's durability and not to mention I don't see any added value for the $300 difference between the Excella and LaPerla. So, the Excella fits the nitch.

The Excella does an excellent job of dishes, pots and casserole dishes I have thrown at it. Ranging from scalloped potatoes to grates from the oven.

Things that made the difference on purchasing a Miele dishwasher...

1. Built like a tank  Miele dishwashers are designed to last 20 years, according the Miele. When I removed our old unused Whirpool dishwasher and installed the Miele, there was a substantial difference in weight with the Miele weighing way more than the Whirpool.
2. Miele dishwashers are designed for the international market as opposed to all the other euro units for a specific market. This presents some significant advantages for the manufacturer and consumer. For the manufacturer, it greatly reduces the amount of parts required to support their products and greater efficiency and focus on the assembly line (hence higher profit margins). For the consumer, there is substantial less probably that the dishwasher will fail because the unit needs to designed/engineered to meet the many different operating environments that exist in the world. So, in my mind, there is some over-engineering that needs to be applied. The consumer reaps the benefit.
3. The Miele units are all self-contained, including the sound dampening material. Meaning the Miele can be installed in island without fear of sound proofing. From my research, the other euro brands require tight integration with the surrounding cabinetry to support their sound deafening attempts.
4. The water leak detection/prevention system is superior to the other units. This includes a shutoff solenoid at the intake water hose connection that shuts off at the slightly detection of water. The water intake hose itself is double-sheath to detect a water link. If the outer sheath were to detect water, the solenoid at the connection point would shut off the water and the drain pump would engage to remove water. This is also applicable to the basin of the dishwasher.
5. Flow through water heater. The Miele dishwashers are the only dishwashers in my research that stated that they could be hooked up to hot or cold water feeds. Again, a design that takes many variables into consideration from the international market.
6. As anticipated, the rack flexibility is awesome. And, since there is no heating element, all items can be placed anywhere (child sipping cups on the bottom rack, etc.). Because of the flexibility, the amount of items that can be placed into the dishwasher is substantial. The middle rack is height adjustable as well.
7. I have to say that the cutlery tray has really left a great impression on me. It really does leave a substantial amount of room in the bottom tray for other things. The small things that can fall through the racks are placed in the cutlery tray and come out great. The Excella and LaPerla both include a "split" tray that I think KitchenAid now offers a model with a "cutlery rack," but IÂm not sure if it the same configuration as the Miele. To support the cutlery tray, Miele dishwashers have three spray arms. All the other euro brands have two.
8. The Excella, along with the LaPerla, have the ability to wash "large" items. This involves a special wash program and the removal of the middle and top racks. The other Miele dishwashers don't allow this.
9. A plethora of washing programs that may or may not get used. So far, I have used about five of the washing programs, with the SensorWash being the de-facto (with enhanced drying). So far, the SensorWash is great. ItÂs interesting to see the "load detection" and "turbidity" sensors at work. IÂve read (unconfirmed) that the "load sensor" (only on the Excella and LaPerla models) detects how much water enters the dishwasher and how long it takes for the water to return back to the basin. The logic is, the longer the water takes to get back to the basic, more items are loaded...the water gets back quickly to the basin, less items are loaded. Using the "load" sensor, along with the turbidity sensor, every wash session is unique. Interesting, huh? ;)
10. The display on the Excella (with a front panel) and LaPerla inform the user of the status and how much time remains, which may update if the dishwasher sees fit to do so (see above). The display also informs the user if an arm is blocked. Only criticism here is that the dishwasher doesnÂt have an audible alert if an arm is blocked.
11. The child locks are great. Including door, panel and program locks. Only flaw here, the door lock needs to be re-engaged every time. On the Bosch, enable the child door lock and it engages every time until one disables it.

More to come...

As you go up in Miele models, as with most brands of DW's (and other appliances, cars, etc.) you are gaining features that are not available on lower models. The key is (again, as with anything), choosing the features that are most important to you, and deciding whether or not the cost differential is worth it to you as well.

You can check out the different models by feature on the Miele website(s) although I found it easier to compare the models in the printed catalog (easier for me to flip back and for on the written page than on a computer monitor, but that's just me!). As you flip through the catalog, there is a gen'l description of that particular model/level, explaining that model X has certain features which replace ones on previously described models, or has certain features in addition to the ones on the lower models. There is also a page listing the features on each model, and I think a comparison chart towards the back of the catalog.

Some differences between models: for example, as you go up in level, the Q rating or noise level goes down. To what degree the different noise levels are distinguishable by an individual varies from person to person and is therefore somewhat subjective. In addition, the lowest model (models?) have a different drying system than the others so keep that in mind. Also, as you go from some of the lower models to the Optima for example, which is the model DH and I have, you have added a built-in water softener and different rack configuration to the DW plus the addition of another wash cycle or two. As you go up to the Excella and the La Perla models, you add more cycle and sensor wash options, and another change in rack configuration (including a split cutlery tray, for example). Many of the models with the exception of the La Perla and I think the Diamante, can be fully integrated (no control panel visible on the front of the DW), so that's something you'd want to take into consideration as well.

We were deciding between the Optima and the one below the Diamante--can't remember if that one was the Inspira or Advanta. We chose the Optima because we wanted the water softener (our water here is considered somewhat hard), and because DH and I just liked the bottom rack configuration better. The other added features/cycles were not as important to us (we deliberately did a hot water hook-up, so the China and Crystal cycle is really useable for us for it's intended purpose). The water softener and lower rack were however, important enough to us to be worth the added cost (roughly $200 I think it was). The added features on the Excella were not important enough though so we did not feel the need to go up any higher in model. Others here on GW have the Excella and the La Perla and love them. I'm sure they will weigh in as to why they chose them over the other models, too.

Good luck with your decision!

Wow, great reviews! I agree completely.

Our choice came down to the Optima or Excella. We eliminated below the Optima for features, and eliminated the LaPerla because we planned to fully integrate our dishwashers with custom panel & pull. We decided to go for the additional programs & the racking features of the Excella, and we're glad we have them.

Here is a link to some pictures I posted of a load of dishes in my Laperla. I think the Excella has almost the same rack configurations.

Jerrod! Was wondering when you'd show up! Missed ya!

Cat Mom

Oh I saw this post but I didn't think I needed to add a thing...everyone else explained quite well and with less verbiage than me! Plus there are all of the other posts in which I have bored everyone to death with details. I did rememer the pictures I posted in case someone wants to see a Miele loaded, so I am mentioning them.

I'm just glad you popped in so I could say "hi!"

Cat Mom

:)

Back at ya :-)

BTW--still alternating between Miele tabs and CC powder. I see all the others in the supermarket, but don't even want to confuse myself! Will prob just order more tabs (or see if a local appliance store carries 'em) when I run low. Saw small boxes of the normal CC powder in one supermarket again, so I might pick up another box when I finally finish that one I'm still using (for those rare occasions when I arbitrarily decide to add some to the pre-wash cup)!

Cat Mom
I don't know if you got a chance but check out my last few posts in the detergents threads. I did some research on DW detergents.

I couldn't get powdered Miele detergent from the UK because they don't ship. I did buy 55 tabs of new Electrasol Red ball, and I also tried 7th generation. The info about this is in the detergent/products thread.

So now I have been alternating between Miele tabs, Electrasol red ball and Electrasol powder when I use a prewash. Of course I still have enough detergent to last into 2009. I still wish I could get some Miele powder detergent. Maybe on my next trip to Germany....Yeah that's it.

I've been following them a bit. I think for now I'll just stick with the two I've got now, and might eliminate one or the other. I spin so much on every decision I make, so I need to find something that works well (and both do) and just go with it.

Now, if you said to me that product Y works so much better than the previous title holder, product M or product C (no scent issues, comp. pricing, etc.) and that I absolutely, positively needed to get it, well then I might reconsider. I'll leave the experimenting to you (like I said, too many choices are not necessarily a good thing in my case! LOL!).

Just piping in with an alternative suggestion for a brand that should be available at Home Depot, in case Miele doesn't work out: Kitchenaid. I really, really love mine (would have loved to have gotten a Miele, but alas, not enough funds here). Other members of this forum love their KA's, too.

I have a Bosch and am delighted with it. I've never had a problem with a dirty load coming out of it, inadequate drying, etching or anything else that has netted a run of complaints here. I run my dishwasher every 4-6 days so its capacity is hardly lacking in my opinion.

Anyhow, I need to rebut Mando_p's critique/comparo #3 as it is quite disingenuous: The Miele units are all self-contained, including the sound dampening material. Meaning the Miele can be installed in island without fear of sound proofing. From my research, the other euro brands require tight integration with the surrounding cabinetry to support their sound deafening attempts.

Miele requires "tight integration" with the surrounding cabinetry as they're just as particular about their clearances as is Bosch. Complaints here about "too noisy" a Miele dishwasher have netted the same resolution as the "too noisy" a Bosch dishwasher - ie. check and correct the installation gaps. Bosch & Asko also come with their insulation integrated onto the units. The Bosch, of which I can claim some familiarity, has both the acoustic dampener mats and the insulation blanket contained within the panels of the DW. You don't add insulation to the DW at install time! While I don't know about the KA or the Monograms etc, I do believe that they are the same way.

Mindstorm,
I'm not sure what Mando_p was referring to but I think it is the fact that the Bosch has the insulation mat at the top of the unit exposed while the Mieles did not. Was the mat on the Bosch exposed at the top on your unit? I have a Miele and it is an aluminum cover on the top of the unit. My old KA has the mat exposed on the top also.

I had a KA for several years and would not recommend them based on my experience. I had an issue with fine grit depositing on the dishes after a few months of use and the machine got increasingly loud over time.

Many people are happy with their Askos on these boards too. My biggest advice is to take your everyday dishes to a showroom and test them out in whatever dishwasher you intend to purchase. The best dishwasher does nothing for you if it will not fit your particular dishes.

Good luck!

homepro, nope, as in yours, all the insulation of my machine was contained within a metal shroud. It has an integrated aluminum/metal panel on the top that continues down the sides; I don't recall the configuration of the back. I could peek around and into and see under the aluminum shielding enough to see the dynamat and then the big rolls of fiber insulation but they were certainly shielded under the aluminum plates.

That said, perhaps this is a distinguishing element but I'm at quite a loss to see why Mando or anyone else should think this is an asset in any way. Sometimes companies do things differently just to be different; sometimes it is to assist installers, retailers, to enable shipping, meet their delivery system constraints etc. But, amazingly, at times these specialty concerns that may have no meaning whatsoever to the end-user are embraced by said consumer as a virtue - whether of brand or of unit. Why should it matter to any of us that Mando's, yours or my machines have their acoustic insulation enclosed in metal shroud? I've never considered it an asset and am wondering what its advantage is to me? Would love to be edified so I can join the collective euphoria :-)

mindstorm,

I was documenting what I had encountered in my journey towards the dishwasher that would fit our needs, hence my opinion.

FYI, in my installation (which is hardly ideal since we haven't done a remodel but needed a dishwasher), I have about a half an inch of space on the left and right side of the dishwasher and a full two inches of clearance above. Our Excella is pretty dead sounding. Ironically, one of the "sound isolation" comments I encountered was yours! :)

Again, YMMW - I'm just documenting what I encountered in real life (with our Excella) and what others have posted (opinions). My posts were never intended nor are considered to be purposely "disingenuous."

I will say, in my humble opinion, the number one factor in ensuring that a dishwasher is as close to silent as possible, is operating it with as full of an "effective" load as possible. Meaning, loading the dishwasher just below the point where cleaning performance is degraded due to the volume of dishes. The detergent is also critical (the Miele tabs clean really well, albeit a tad on the expensive side) .

To the OP, good luck on your quest!

I have about a half an inch of space on the left and right side of the dishwasher and a full two inches of clearance above. Our Excella is pretty dead sounding. Ironically, one of the "sound isolation" comments I encountered was yours! :)

Mando, I won't deny for a second that my machine went from a not-a-quiet machine to a quiet-machine (although by no means dead silent but perhaps at the ambient noise level of our house such as the fridge) the moment we turned the DW legs to reduce the clearance on the top. However, your own experience aside, nominal performance will beg the nominal installation specs and that there are decent odds that your experience won't transport. For instance, the only reason I thought to close the gap was because someone had posted here asking why their new Miele Optima (if I recall right - it was about a year and a half ago) was being noisy. In the course of trouble-shooting clearances were mentioned, pictures requested and supplied and in addition to some small gaps to the side, the 1" gap at the top was labeled the culprit by the friendly folks here diagnosing the trouble. Well, I thought I'd take a look at my DW clearance on top, noticed that ours was even bigger, closed that and voila my problem was solved. The person who had complained about their DW didn't post back at least while I was tracking their thread so I don't know if that resolved their problem. Regardless, the gap was flagged as a problem installation for the posters' (Miele) dishwasher - so clearly there is a correlation between installation and (acoustic) performance - or at least, there used to be said correlation 1.5 years ago. :-)

There are other reasons not to assume too much performance invariance to the manufacturer's installation specs but in the interest of brevity I shan't get into it. So, if that is what you are suggesting in the last post, I'll redouble my objection :-)

Finally, I hear you on full loads and I even believe it as I have had sub-whisper quiet runs in my DW when it was very full, but in my case, I guess I have to contend myself with knowing I probably can't get there. As it is, I do a load every 4-6 days. (I often have stuff growing on my dishes by the time I do the load!) The DW is not always full by that 4-6 day mark either but I simply can't bring myself to put off doing dishes beyond that window. Perhaps I'll have to reconcile myself to non-whisper quiet operation when it and I are working although at this point I really don't feel especially put upon because it is so soft.

We bought a low/mid level Bosch 300 series dishwasher (Bosch seems to only built mid/upper line units, so even their entry level unit is featureful) a few months ago on clearance for $350 at a local appliance chain store (it was last years model, this years replacement added child lockout, not an important feature for us and costs over twice as much). It has the traditional front button controls, no countdown/cycle display, but does have the power wash, and dirt sensor, stainless steel interior, etc. Overall I can say it is the best dishwasher I have ever owned or used, it is quiet (about as loud as refrigerator, maybe just a little louder, if anything else is running you have to look at the control panel to see if its running), it cleans dishes well. If I had to complain about anything it would be not knowing how long the cycle will last, as it has a dirt sensor that detects how dirty the dish water is and adjusts acordingly. The next model up adds a cycle timer display.

Ike

p.s. If you are a Do-It-Yourselfer, the installation on the Bosch was very straight forward, the water inlet, power connection, and leveling leg screws are on the front of the unit under the kick panel with the wiring/hose running through built in channels in the base to the back. There was no need to reach arm length under the unit for anything, unlike some dishwashers I have dealt with in the past. Installation instructions were better than most (they skip over what to do with the vent line, and they poorly identify which of the included screws is for what, but it becomes obvious as there are only 2/3 sizes)

Ike

Just saw this thread, and I have to say I LOVE my Bosch. We have owned 5 homes, and this is the best dishwasher, hands down, we have ever had. It is super-quiet. We have three teenagers, so we run it everyday, sometimes twice a day. We bought it at Sears about three years ago to replace a horrible GE.

texanjana, which Bosch model do you own?

I'm planning on putting a Miele upstairs and a Bosch downstairs, now I'm just down to determining which models to purchase.

Thanks!