Any appliance repair shop that handles Wolf/Viking can handle Bluestar/Capital Culinarian. These are fairly simple mature technology machines.Any competant appliance repair shop can fix them if a problem arises.

If BS/Capital don't have an authorized repair shop in your area and you need warranty work they will call the local shop that handles high end gas ranges and establish a relationship.

Yes, some of these so darn expensive ranges don't perform as well as $4k-$15K ranges should. In addition, google gardenweb Viking and either quality or problems. You will have some nice fall reading. You should be able to place any or most size pots on any burner at any temperature achievable by the range.

Again

1)Capital Culinarian
2)Bluestar RNB
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3) Wolf

4) Run the other way from Viking.

Happy Shopping!

Deeageaux,

Thanks very much...as a follow up, where would you place Thermidor on the list? Just learned today that it has star-shaped burners and my local place carries it...(I'm in South Louisiana)

Madeline- Everything you wrote is exactly right. That's why I would suggest looking for a range with different sized burners.

1) American Residential makes both an open burner design and 2 sealed burner designs in different price ranges. They use 3 different sized burners in all their styles

2) Bluestar "RNB"as mentioned uses an open burner with 3 different sized burners. A bit more expensive, but they also have a lower line called "RCS".

I'm sure there are others but these two impress me the most and I have experience with both. Both use chrome oven rack guides as well.

Thanks, Alexr.

I just looked at the Dacor site, and they have a wide variety of sizes, too. (3 different burner type/sizes, including 2 simmer/sear burners).

They also have a really helpful well-organized Website.

deeageaux: I'd like to present a challenge. As I write, there are complaints about Capital, Bluestar and Wolf right on the first page of this forum. Can you find what page has the first complaint about Viking?

The reason I ask is because I've been reading this forum since around 2005 and I've seen many, many folks quote and requote how terrible Viking quality and reliability is, yet I see precious few posts about any actual problems. Yet if I had to guess, Viking outsells W, C, and BS combined. (Ok, that's a total guess, and I might be wrong to include Wolf.)

Note that I'm talking about cooktops and ranges. I know that there have been many well-documented complaints about their fridges.

I'm prepared to be proven wrong, but I find it very hard to believe that such a dominant brand could be so bad yet we barely ever hear about it.

I think you'll find same sized burners less of an issue with open burners like BS and CC. With sealed burners, there is no flow of air from below so in order to have high BTU/h they have to have a large diameter burner ring. This causes perimeter heating which means on the most powerful burners, you will loose most of the heat up the sides of all but the largest pans (>14"), which you have already observed. With open burners, heat concentration is usually mostly in the center and expanding out from there. Thus, although you might see some flames coming up the sides of small pans on a high power open burner, most of the heat is still coming from under the pan. Some sealed burner designs compensate with different burner patterns or inner burners but IMHO, they don't help that much and make it harder to clean and maintain.

Regarding Viking... As a prior owner of a sealed Viking cooktop, I am at least qualified to give my personal experience. There may be people who have not had these problems or have not been bother by them enough to complain so take it for what it's worth.

First, the particular design of the sealed burner had a huge problem with perimeter heating. The large burner had almost no heat directed at the bottom of the a 12" skillet. Result was I rarely used the large burner. Wok cooking on it was disappointing to put it nicely.

Second, every time we had even a minor spill, the ignitors would keep clicking even when the flame was on or it would stop sparking all together. It got so bad that for the last few months before I replaced it, I left a BBQ lighter next to the cooktop and unplugged the thing.

Third, it was a pain to clean. It had a aluminum collar around the burner cap which stained within the first few months and was impossible to get or keep clean. The stainless surface around the burners would get so hot that it would bake on anything that splattered on it almost immediately.

Forth, after about 3 years, the black markings and lettering to indicate which burner was which knob started to peel off. By the time I replaced it (only about 5 years after buying it) almost all of it was off.

One good thing is that I sold it for $300 when it would have cost me $60 to have the delivery people haul it away.

Madelene616 I pretty much agree with deeageaux. Let's put the American Range open burner range in slot #3 and then say that 1,2,and 3 are pretty much equal. I have the CC, but I have not cooked on a BlueStar or American, maybe one of them is better, but those are the 3 best. Then Wolf is next, great ovens and customer service. Great marketing, hence overpriced. Thermadore is about on par with Viking as far as frequency of repairs. Dacor too. There are a lot of ranges out there with the same dual stacked burners that wolf uses that whole group is pretty similar. foodonastump, you don't read much on this site about Viking anymore because nobody here would buy one. Just type problems with Viking range in your web browser, you will have enough reading to keep you busy thru the long winter.

We've have a Viking range (open burners) - it has performed flawlessly. The Viking hood and exhauster are really nice with convient controls and good lighting.

Before that we had a Garland that gave us 25 years of trouble free service.

When using small pans - keep the flame lower, or offset the pan on the burner.

IMO, there are a few self proclaimed 'experts' on this forum who love to hate Viking. Remember it's just their opinion, and it's worth the price charged - nothing!

It's not that I'm defending Viking products - but rather annoyed with spreading misinformation.

We have a Wolf 36" AG range (open burners). It had some issues/quirks, but Wolf/SZ worked with us to resolve them. "Worth the price of admission" as they say. :-)

We like the fact that all the burners are the same size/BTU's. No thinking involved re: pot/pan placement since all the burners are the same. For me, that was a plus, in fact, it was a "want." For small pots and pans, I just turn down the flame and still get the results I want.

Hope this helps!

GE Monogram also has the stacked burners like the Wolf & it costs significantly less. In a recent local showroom test (that I was there for), the Monogram actually simmered at a lower temp than the Wolf sitting right next to it. All the burners are the same size & BTU. Granted I've only been cooking on mine for 6 weeks, but I have had great results whether I was using a tiny saucepan or a giant stock pot or a large frying pan.

As far as the burners go, I didn't want the different sized/BTU burners--to me that was problematic as it limited my options as I was cooking. I didn't want to have to think what order I was going to have to put pots/pans on which burner due to size & temp. You spend that much on a range/rangetop you shouldn't have to think that hard (just my opinion).

You asked about the Thermador & we researched it as our local showroom could get us a really good package deal. The killing point for us was the way their simmer feature works: the burners cycle on and off repeatedly. Each time they turn on you hear the 'click-click'. We have an open floor plan to the family room & I didn't want to hear that constant 'click-click' while my sauces, soups & stews were simmering. Other than that, I really liked it.

On the Viking, Mom has had hers for 6 years & loves it--no problems whatsoever. My Aunt has had hers for over 10 & has had no problems. In fact, she didn't even suggest switching it out when they redid the kitchen 2 years ago.

Would you mind my asking why you're replacing your Kenmore Pro Rangetop with a range when you love it so much? Perhaps your fellow GWers could help you come up with an alternate solution so you wouldn't have to give it up. Just a thought.

Hope this helps! Good luck in your decision!

Super helpful, thanks!!

I hadn't thought of the potential positives to having them all be the same size. I'm just so used to being limited to "the big burner on the left and small one on the right in back," if you know what I mean.

I think my main concern was that, since I thought I couldn't turn the flame of a large burner all of the way up under a really small pot, things in small pots wouldn't boil/heat quickly enough.

I imagined better heating with a small, round flame turned all of the way up, directed toward the bottom of the small pot, than with a larger flame on medium under the same small pot.

I'm starting to understand that maybe a larger burner on medium will be the same as my tiny one on high. It's tough when it's all hypothetical in your mind--so I really appreciate the real life experiences.

A large flame circle on medium is not the same. This is especially true with burners that have 'caps' on them (the sealed type) - the flames just shoot up the sides and onto the handle on smaller pots, and even on large pots when set on high.

Hi Alex,

Thanks for weighing in again. Just looked at Consumer Reports, who said they couldn't simmer a pot of tomato sauce on the lowest Wolf setting, and a couple customer reviewers said they have trouble with small pots.

So, I guess it depends on the type of cook you are/the model stove/the size pots you use most frequently.

I'm wondering what you think of Thermador? The star burners seem to hit the center of small pots better, and I think 2 are smaller in size.

BS and CC are off the table b/c of my geographical area (I also really want sealed b/c that's what I'm used to as far as clean up).

Also, if not Thermador, do you have another suggestion?

Thanks again!

Madeline-because of your thread, I played with the flame tonight when I cooked on my rangetop. The GE Monogram has a setting for large/X-large pots and regular to small sized pots. When you turn to the large settings the flame shoots wider to accomodate. When you turn to the regular to small pots the flame is more centered. The only way I could get flames to overshoot the bottom of the itty bitty saucepan I used was to set the burner for the large/X-large setting. Even with that it wasn't like some of the older gas models I've seen where the flames lick up the sides of the pot--the flames still stayed even with the bottom of the pot & didn't extend up the sides. Hope this helps!

Like amcook we also had a Viking cooktop with sealed burners. Everything that amcook stated is true - it happened to us the same way. The only thing the large Viking burner was ever good for was using my turkey fryer pot to steam lobsters, otherwise there wasn't a pan we had that could handle the flame distribution. The igniters - what a joke - the 1st requirement we had for a new stove was individual igniters.

I'd suggest speaking to cat mom or others who actually own a Wolf gas range vs taking Consumer Reports word for something in re Wolf. Some of us here feel CR rating/comments are not reliable when it comes to buying or service. They said my beloved Optima DW didn't clean and wasn't worth the price and that runs totally counter to every report here from actual users over a considerable period of time. If you took their judgments as gospel, the only brand that's any good is Kenmore.

I have a range (NXR 30") that uses the exact same burners as the Wolf.
I personally have no problems at all with it, but then again the smallest pot I own is 10", everything else is 11"-14" including the Wok. Plus a large 14X24" Steel Griddle.
So I don't have any problem with the larger diameter of the burners and I love having all burners the same where I can have all 4 full blast at 15,000BTU or all 4 at super low simmer and everything in between.
As for not being able to "Simmer a pot of sauce" with the Wolf burners that is complete nonsense.
I am right now as I type simmering a LARGE pot of Sketti sauce on high simmer. It is in a Swiss Diamond 8 1/2 Qt pot and its at least 2/3rds full.

But there is a high simmer and a low simmer.
The super low simmer is obviously not for doing a very large pot of sauce, its meant for doing something like keeping mash potatoes warm, or holding an emulsion like hollandaise or a beurre blanc, or melting chocolate and it does so perfectly. That is what is so sweet about these burners is the ability of that super low (melt chocolate on a paper plate low flame)plus the slightly higher simmer that is for large pots of sauce.
The high simmer as you can tell works just fine, in fact perfect for simmering a LARGE pot of sauce all day.
You can see at least 3 sauce volcanoes coming up in my sauce here, (although a couple are just bubbles that might be hard to make out unless you know where to look) simmers perfectly, any more and it would burn. (Just ran back down to stir it and taste and had 4 bubbling volcanoes going)
So obviously Consumer Reports is clueless in that respect.

If you have and prefer to use tiny pots then yes you should get something like a Capital Culinarian as those burners would fit you small pot needs better.

This is the high simmer with about 5Qts of sketti sauce simmering away just fine right now.

I would avoid Dacor at all cost......our's has been a nightmare from the beginning...the oven doesn't work and after replacing all the bits, it worked for a week and died....cooktop has been OK but ignitors need replacement. Service tech told us, off the record, that Dacor was rubbish.....

Thanks so much for these really helpful replies. Nunyabiz, I really appreciate the pic, and now I'm starving :) I wish the Wolf had that double-ring burner, but at least it does have one small on eon the back.

Mydreamhome, thanks for doing that little test for me. It's incredibly helpful.

I purchased a used Viking 48" all gas unit recently and had to pretty much disassemble the thing to get it through the doorway into the kitchen. I had read the nightmare posts, so I figured it was a good time to check everything out. Original owner said he had replaced nothing....upon inspection, all of the burners appear in great shape, all the ignitors work, but I CAN see where the wires are showing signs of heat damage. It would be prudent to reroute some of the wires and wrap them with a better heat isolator to avoid some of the problems that people mention. All in, it's an incredibly simple device, I just can't see where any problem couldn't be dealt with in 20 minutes or so. Granted its an old unit, probably 2008 or 07. At this point, I have used it enough to see that modifying it to take a bluestar burner for at least one of the eyes might be a good idea. Nothing a little TIG welding can't handle! The only other thing I think needs to be done is to insulate the capillary under the griddle. The flame on the burner is too close and causes it to cycle off too quickly. The griddle will get hot, but it takes a LONG time to do so.

rutbeer: Congratulations on your purchase! I used to have an older viking (circa 05) and I never had any issues with it. You just saved yourself some serious dough buying it used AND the older vikings look better in my opinion. Sounds like you could deal with any issues that may come your way anyway, so why buy new? I am with you, these appliances are simple machines and they should be able to be kept going for 50+ years, especially if you are able to retrofit generic or other manufacturers parts.

I suppose you have their open burner model? I would LOVE to see if you were successful in hotrodding a BS burner into that Viking. Not sure if you have seen Mojavean's hotrodded Bluestar from an RCS to and RNB? It is very cool. I'd like to see a BS hot rodded to 30k burner. I would imagine it would need extra porting in the burner itself. What would be really cool is if hot rodding professional ranges became a sport, and magazines and everything were dedicated to just that! :) Obviously the person attempting do hotrod should have some knowledge of gas appliances.

Keep us posted rutbeer, I think you would be a valuable contributor to the forum.

Rutbeer--tac weld a piece of angle iron, or a heavy piece of sheet metal bent into a "L", over the capillary tube under the griddle. Then it'll read the plate temp and not the flame.

To Madeline, what you say makes sense from that direction, but I see it differently. In practice, I have a 10 year old Viking with 4 open burners the same size. I have looked to replace it but am turned off by the stoves with diff sized burners - what if the pot that I want the highest heat on needs very little attention, I might want that at the left rear, and the pan that needs low heat and to be monitored and stirred goes on the right front. OTOH, it may be I want a high heat, quick flip ( like searing fish or scallops ) so I want that burner at the right front since that is most convenient in my kitchen. I would feel constrained by having to put pots in certain places. As for Viking reliability - I would say pretty poor. The oven element burnt out within a few months, replaced under warranty. The hinges started failing many years ago ( won't open fully and won't stay closed ) and completely died a couple of years ago - Not surprised it isn't under warranty, but pretty upset when the repairman said it they don't offer replacement hinges. Did an internet search which confirmed that other have the same problem. I now have to buy cabinet catches and screw it to the oven door to keep it closed, and it still won't open fully. Should I mention that I removed a burner assembly to clean it and that shorted out a $10 switch so the oven went dead. When the repairman went to replace it, there was no access door, so he had to cut through the metal to get to it, that only set me back $2,500. So while it looks great, and cooks pretty well when it is working, I would never buy another Viking.

Hi Barryv,

Thanks for that perspective. I've ordered the Wolf AG (all 6 burners the same size) and I anticipate quickly falling in love with it, and appreciating the flexibility of all 6 burners being the same size for the reasons you mention.

What a nightmare your Viking experience has been! So sorry to hear it! Yes, Viking appliances do look great. In the end I decided to play it safe and go with Wolf. Stories like yours confirm my decision for me.