It seems you are feeling pre-guilty of being wasteful if your small family uses a dishwasher.

You don't need a full load or dishwasher drawers to wash efficiently.

Both Bosch and Miele are very concerned with water and electric efficiency.

And they don't build their full size dishwashers exlusively for families of six plus.

Bosch has half-load plus eco mode options. Miele has turbidity plus(in more expensive models) load size sensors. These will wash your partial loads efficiently while giving you the option to wash larger items. And they are far less likely to leak than the dishwasher drawers. Most people who buy drawers are happy with them but the chances of getting a leaking lemon are much higher than with either Bosch or Miele.

You have never grown accustomed to using a dishwasher therefore you have not learned bad habits or have the expectations of quick washes provided by old electric/water hog American style dishwashers.

A little research here,a youtube video there, and reading the manual of your new dishwasher and you will be an expert dishwasher user in no time.

BTW If you want a specific model recommendation then give us a specific dishwasher budget.

I had a similar concern but I got over it. I live alone and cook intermittently, so I don't fill the DW very fast some weeks. But I have limited dish storage space, so I sometimes run out of dishes/pans/silverware before the DW is full.

But, I love the DW because it is a great place for dirty dishes to live. Much better than the sink. Out of sight. I have a new mid-range Whirlpool that works great and doesn't use much power or water. I don't have hard water but using a rinse aid helps with the spots.

The F&P drawers do not have a good record. And they don't hold much. Not a good investment in my mind. As your family grows you will need more space. It doesn't sound like you need a high-end machine like a Miele but if you have the $$$ they work well. A more moderate, but current model might be a better choice for you. Energy use is minimal in all current models.

Good luck with your shopping - let us know what you decide to get. I suspect that once you get used to using a DW you won't ever go back to the old way.

It doesn't sound like you need a high-end machine like a Miele

Who "needs" a Miele?

The OP asked about dishwasher drawers. Double dishwasher drawers in black/white start at about $1k and in SS at about $1.3k. About the starting price of a Miele DW.

""""I'm asking all these questions because I would hate to spend $$ on a DW that I may end up not using.""""

But you already are spending money for something you are not using......dishwashers not only clean dishes, they do it with less water and less heated water.

Just a thought....the DW/energy/water-use police aren't going to arrest you for doing things by hand. The day may be coming, but this isn't it.

Thank you all for the feedback. Good to know there's such a thing as half load mode. :)

deeageaux... I've looked at both Miele and Bosch. If Miele, I think I'll get the Futura Classic with cutlery tray ~$1350. Is this a good model? I looked at the Bosch but I'm confused which model is good. I've read posts here and all I find is "the European model." Well, which one is that??? Can you tell me the specific model?

>Double dishwasher drawers in black/white start at about $1k and in SS at about $1.3k.

Yes, but then I've seen double Dish Drawers for as little as $600 on sale at big box stores around here when a new model comes out. (Of course, they're never in a color I can use, but that's life.)

FWIW, I currently have a 6 year old bottom of the line Kenmore the PO put in when I was renting and even that has the option to do only the top rack if you just have a few things to wash.

Usable, functioning dishwashers can be bought for much less than $1,350. A peruse through Sears.com for example, lists 424 built-in models (although some are the same machine, differing only in color) ranging from $218.49 to $2137.49. There are any number of nice choices in the mid-range $550 to $750 section.

There is also no law against running the dishwasher before it is full, either.

The dishwasher heats the water to a temperature that your hands can't withstand unless you are a Terminator. Thus they make more efficient use of the wash water.

They have turbidity sensors which will adjust water use for different soiling states. They generally beat out humans when it comes to water and energy use.

And if you get one of the modern, European designed models, they are astoundingly quiet. So quiet, some models shine a little light on the floor to let you know they are operating. More than once I have been sloshed by our Bosch because I yanked it open mid-spray.

But you know, some people simply do not mind doing dishes by hand and really prefer that method to any other. If you are one of those folks I would simply forego the entire thing. But I wouldn't do so on the assumption that you are saving water and energy because you likely aren't.

mojavean... What's the model of your Bosch?

Honestly, I don't mind paying more on my water and electric bill if it means I don't have to handwash again and save time! lol. It's H who thinks I should wait to fill up the DW. We probably are both very uninformed what a DW can do and how energy efficient they are. :)

tncraft,

As an example, a while ago I checked my DishDrawer with a Kill-a-Watt meter (which measures electricity used by the appliance/device plugged into it). I found the dishwasher (one drawer running, on a tap-cold fill, meaning it had to fully heat the water) took 0.68 KW of power on the longest, hottest cycle ... which is the Heavy cycle 132 mins estimated time, heats the main wash to 150F and the final rinse to 163F.

The Normal Eco cycle used 0.4 KW (88 mins, 125F wash and rinse).

Multiply the KW usage by your electric rate to figure the power cost. For example, at 12 cents/KWH it would be about 8 cents for the Heavy cycle and 4.8 cents for Normal Eco. Plus cost of detergent and water.

Other dishwashers will of course vary in operational cost according to their power usage, but this gives you a general idea.

Yes, but then I've seen double Dish Drawers for as little as $600 on sale at big box stores around here when a new model comes out. (Of course, they're never in a color I can use, but that's life.)

You can find new/floor model discontinued Miele full size dishwashers for as little as $700 on ebay/craigslist.

tncraft,

A really good bang for your buck Bosch is the Bosch SHX55RL5UC - 500 Series DLX for $715 delivered.

http://www.abesofmaine.com/item.do?item=BOSHX55RL5UC&id=BOSHX55RL5UC&l=FROOGLE

Bosch "European Models" are SHE9ER55UC and custom panel SHV9ER53UC . They usually start at around $1400. Might as well get a Miele at that price.

Yes, you can always buy "almost as good" for alot less money than the best appliance in any category. But not as good,that always comes at a premium.

Nowadays, DWs use less water and electricity than handwashing the same load.

When I found I was running out of dishes between washings, I bought more dishes. So now I let it fill up. I knock off the big stuff with the sink sprayer and put it in the DW to be done whenever. On my KA, I use Normal with HiTemp and NoHeat drying. I usually open the door at the end to let it air dry.

I still do the non-stick and castiron in the sink. DW detergent pretty much ruins them.

Many washers have a 'top-load only' setting.

Hi tncraft,
Our Bosch is an older model 500 series, now discontinued. It's about 8 or 9 years old and cleans as efficiently and quietly as it did when new. About the only problem is that the printing on the control buttons (ours in an integrated model with all the controls concealed along the top edge of the door) has all been steamed off over the years and I have to remember which button does what because you can't read the letters without a flashlight anymore.

The 800 series Bosch machines are reportedly still made in Germany. While they feature the all stainless tubs and cutlery drawers, they are also fairly steep, price-wise. Once you get up into Miele pricing terrain, I think one should always evaluate Miele products themselves. Though I do not own a Miele dishwasher, I am *very* impressed with the quality of the materials and workmanship in those machines. They are very well insulated and entirely sheathed by steel panels. Look at one uncrated and compare it to any other machine.

If I were to be in the market for a replacement dishwasher nowadays, I would probably select a Miele. But that is me.

YOU should look for something in your price range that will suit your needs. Personally, I would forego the FP dish-drawer option: too many reports of trouble and bad service on those around here. But you can select a machine with a "top drawer only" cycle that will accomplish the same thing without taking away your option for the tall tub.

Agree completely with Weedmeister. D/Ws have been shown to be more efficient (water and energy-wise) than doing dishes by hand, however full loads are optimal. I have a cheapie set of dishes and cutlery (ie: the pair I had before the wedding showers!), but you can easily get a second set of fairly okay stuff at a big box store.

I try to run my D/W every 2 days, and when this happens I end up washing a few extra prep dishes by hand (like today, see below). I do actually hand wash a small load every night, as I don't put plastics of any kind in the D/W (so all school sandwich, drink, etc. containers are handwashed).

A picture's worth 1000 words, and since I have no shame, here's my Bosch loaded tonight after 2 days of home cooked dinners, plus my day's worth of handwash (note: noone home during daytime, so this is breakfast/dinner only for 2+2 people).
{{gwi:1480103}}
{{gwi:1480104}}
{{gwi:1480105}}

Oh, looks like I have room for a couple more glasses! :) Now, my neurotic-ly efficient loading is another story... I am guilty of reloading after DH has messed up my "fit!"

It looks like you've received all the pertinent info about effiency of handwashing vs. DW so I'll only add my personal experience with kids and DWs. Before kids, I ran the DW every 2-3 days. When our first child was about the age of yours, we were up to a nightly running. Now, with two kids (DS is 6 and DD is 25 months) I have to run it at least once a day. My munchkins must snack more than yours because we go through many little bowls and plates a day. My advice would be to get a DW instead of a DD if you plan on having another child.

I was going to post the same experience as Breezy. We have two little ones and since the second one started solids, I swear I am running it once a day!
I also have a Bosch in our full-time home and a Kitchenaid in our summer place. I can only say that I despise my Bosch and love my Kitchenaid. For me, there is no comparison.. I hear great things about Bosch, which is why I bought one, but I have been more than disappointed. Will. Never. Buy. Another.

Thank you all for your help. This is very informative.

dadoes... Thanks for sharing the math!

deeageaux... Thank you, thank you for the specific brand/model. That Bosch is definitely at the top of my list now. This is very helpful.

weedmeister... We are now considering buying more dishes. :) And We're definitely buying a DW with top load wash only.

mojavean... Thanks for sharing your experience with Bosch. After seeing deeageaux's recommended Bosch model and the price, we decided to stay under $1k on the DW. I may go with a Miele in the future after I become a DW pro user. LOL.

Co-Co.... You're awesome! Thanks for sharing the pics. I have started going through You Tube videos to further help me out.

breezygirl and chris11895... Thinking about it, we probably have enough to wash every night. I think one of our main problem is we don't have enough dishes. We seem to use certain items 2-3x a day. You are right, my 22mo old goes through a lot of stuff throughout the day, especially sippy cups (5-6). But I always hand wash them. I don't know if they can be put in the DW.

I do think though that our main issue is that hand washing has been a habit. It's been automatic for me to hand wash anything I see in the sink and forget that we actually have a DW. lol. Need to try harder to break the habit. ;)

Think of how the time spent hand washing could be put to other uses.

Sippys can go into the dw and an occasional sani wash will probably help keep everyone healthy.

Here, everything goes in the DW (Miele) including pots and pans. We only wash older wood-handled knives etc by hand. There are 2 of us and we accumulate dishes throughout the day and run it once before we go to bed.

Method tablet detergent from Target or Lowes may improve your machine's performance.

Also, thrift stores, house sales and local auctions have tons of estate dishes and serveware, often in quantity for way less than they could be bought new.

Old guy's story....purely anecdotal, but here it is......

Grew up in the Chicago suburbs. Family of five bought house with first-ever (for us) dishwasher (KA) in 1956. My 99-year-young mother still recalls one difference in addition to the convenience. The frequency of colds and other trivial ailments within the family diminished almost at once.

I don't know to what degree that circumstance is, perhaps, a condemnation of our previous manual dishwashing procedures, but there it is. And I know the truth of it because, as the youngest, I was one of those who was getting those colds and sniffles with annoying frequency. Advent of the DW did make that difference for us.

Yes, Tncraft, sippy cups and all other like paraphernalia can go in the DW. If the sippy cup has one of those plastic flow valve gizmos, put that in one of the bins of the silverware basket. Everything goes in the DW at my house except knives. They should never go in.

A bit OT, but there was a doctor on Oprah several years ago who said if you have kids and a dishwasher use the dishwasher - don't let the kids wash the dishes. They can't use hot enough water to kill germs and they may get more germs on the dishes than they wash off.