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ftwobenny

Bluestar warning on quality and customer service

ftwobenny
15 years ago

Our 13 month old bluestar rnb 30 has died. One month out of warranty and the entire oven stopped working. We had a problem with it over the summer and did not try it again until recently. I noted that Bluestar began in April issuing a 2 year warranty so I was not concerned. Surely the make of a $4000 range made in the USA will repair a clear problem caused by faulty components-right? WRONG. The service bill is a minimum of $400 and the problem is not fully diagnosed! I have gone up the ladder at BlueStar and gotten the word for now at least that they will not honor any warranty claim, or extend any help to me. They actually stated that as far as they were concerned once a range hits the one year mark, they bear no responsibility for the range. I have written them to see if they will assist....and will report the outcome to you all.

Comments (133)

  • kachinee
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Viking issued a recall of the EXACT Invensys 6 point spark ignition module. I do not believe Blue Star bothered, or at least I never received any notice of recall prior to having 2 defective units.
    Getting into this further, both of the spark modules I have are dated AFTER the date of the Viking recall, which makes me wonder whether or not this issues was resolved with that Viking/Blue Star supplier, or how reliable the date on the recall is. Blue Star claims that they have not had problems with later dated units but that is contrary to my experience as well as others, including someone who recently posted here about another defective igniter.
    I have both defective igniters including the one that just keeps on clicking and clicking..
    The Cooking gift that keeps on clicking

    I also found that Viking replaced that supplier with another manufacturer (Tytronics) in at least some of their ranges, but I am not sure if the problem with the Invensys is the reason why.

    Meanwhile, I note that the Invensys part is available on line for $40 less than Blue Star wants for it (thanks but no thanks to Blue Star for trying to profit an additional $40 on this).
    Invensys part $40 less than Blue Star wants for it
    That is another reason I would like an independent price on the ceramic igniters.

    Pricing aside, I now wonder whether I should use that Invensys unit again after having two defective units dated after the recall.
    I hope this information is useful to others who have had or will have this issue with their Blue Star or Viking.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Defective Invensys Spark module Recall by Viking

  • kachinee
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "the myth (or exaggeration)of sharp edges on a BS"
    Thull has already verified "the same cutouts and sharp points" I mentioned (That was where I got cut badly because I did not see it when reaching in to remove the front center burner). "Messing under the hood" to some extent is required beause of the open burner design. As an example, you have to take out the burner assembly to clean the sheet metal bracket under them. That bracket has sharp edges and is attached with pointed sheet metal screws. The points of sheet metal screws protrude out everywhere. Grease and crumbs will get into the back area and sides beyond the drip tray. You cannot clean the unit of grease without exposing yourself to sharp metal edges, screw points, and areas like the center burner cut-outs or the piece of sheet metal that they put (for some unknown reason) around the 1/2" gas pipe as it exits the gas valve. If you want to just let the thing accumulate grease, fine, but that thing will get the old grease smell after a while and force you to clean it.

    As far as the ceramic igniter electrodes, I am not overzealous in cleaning them, but you do have to clean them if you want the unit to light properly. The design of them has a space around the electrode inside the ceramic insulator that accumulates grease.... like every other part on a stove. Yes, you have to be reasonable careful, but I use a sponge with Dawn detergent, not a drill bit. That's overzealous?

    In researching to find replacement igniters I discovered that other companies also used an igniter of similar design. However, for some reason.... at least one of those manufacturers switched the igniters on all of their units to a new design in 2001..and called for igniters on existing units in the field to be replaced with a kit of six re-designed igniters. (see linke below) That is what a manufacturer should do when they sell an expensive range that has had repeated problems with a part. Good companies stand behind their product and stand behind their customers in a reasonable manner. Thus, if there are defective and/or unacceptably unreliable parts admit to it and issue a recall. I guess the idea that the customer is always right is long gone.
    As far as those here that have parsed through my posts like I am some agent for a competitive manufacturer or am shorting stock in Prizer Painter...please. What is the point? Helping them sell more units without addressing common complaints and defective parts? Letting them get away with screwing up sheet metal with unfinished edges and points of sheet metal screws everywhere? I know some here would never go "under the hood" of their vehicle, but let me tell you, no car I have ever seen has sharp screws and sheet metal edges like the Blue Star does.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Recall on igniters

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  • alexrander
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Maybe a pair of rubber gloves and an old toothbrush would be in order for cleaning the underside of the inside of the range top.

    Really I can cut myself easier on a piece of paper than the insides of this stove - where hands were never intended to be. But you know, if you must, and I gather that you do, just wear gloves. And try the toothbrush- it isn't bothered by the ends of screws and metal edges.

  • ya_think
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think this thread has made the rounds of ridiculousness that are typical of any anti-Bluestar thread. We should all know by now that there are arguments that won't be won: Debates on cleanability, fit and finish, customer service experiences, etc. But for those of you still reading this thread for some reason, I think there is one really important point being made recently by kachinee:

    Is it true that Bluestar's ignitors are the same ones that Viking used, then accepted as flawed, discontinued use of in new models, and issued a recall for in old models, way back when in 2001?

    It seems that if you look hard enough you'll find someone that had an ignitor problem with every brand out there. But no one who has been reading this forum for a while can objectively deny that Bluestar gets more comments about failed ignitors than all other brands combined. So my question is, if kachinee's claims are legit, what gives?

    I recall on another thread Trevor Lawson saying something to the effect of, "Bluestar is a great range for the right customer." I understand what he means, and I have long thought I might be that right kind of customer. But somehow I figured that changing an ignitor is like changing a $5 spark plug. I don't mind tinkering once in a while, in fact I enjoy it. But if this is going to be a $96 normal service item, then I think I can finally say "no thank you" and stop reading Bluestar threads.

    I hope that someone can knowledgably (as opposed to anecdotally) respond to this issue.

  • kachinee
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ya think:
    What about the issue of the Invensys Spark ignitor module....the exact model that was used in Viking and for which they issued the recall I cited? Unlike Viking, Blue Star never issued a recall. Why? Now they do not agree to replace them after one year. Why? That is contrary to what most companies do when they use defective parts. Further, the same part that was recalled by Viking and used by Blue Star is STILL proving unreliable even after the recall and manufacturing date. The replacement that Blue Star provided to me failed within a few months. BOTH of the failed units are dated after the date cited in Viking's recall.

    As far as the ceramic igniter electrodes, I agree with you that if they are relatively inexpensive ($10 or less) and readily available I will keep changing them like spark plugs. The point there was that one should not have to make a call to Matt Schutte to get a price and shipping cost to buy spark plugs. Prizer Painter has a website where they can allow people to order replacement parts. This seemed like a simple solution to me.

    There are sharp sheet metal edges and sharp ends of screws under the grates and burners. That is also a fact. OK use leather gloves and tooth brushes, but don't deny that the those area have to be cleaned periodically. The assertion that one never has to remove the burner assemblies to clean the supporting brackets and other areas of grease is false, and anyone who has had a Blue Star for a while knows that.

    This is NOT in the category of the Susanandmark rants whatsoever and has nothing to do with Trevor, who has done nothing but try to be a good business man and loyal supplier of this manufacturer. Same goes for the company that sold me mine.

    If you think any of this is bull, let's leave the sharp edges/sheet metal screw ends issue aside and respond to the defective, non-recalled Invensys ignitor module issue and the unreliable ceramic igniters. Specifically, I want to know if improved parts are available because I have lost confidence in the reliability and longevity of the igniter electrodes and in the Invensys spark ignition module.

  • bruce_allen123
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Specifically, I want to know if improved parts are available because I have lost confidence in the reliability and longevity of the igniter electrodes and in the Invensys spark ignition module".

    I've lost confidence in most consumer goods today. I'm very disheartened that we've become such a throw-away society that even spending thousands of dollars for a product doesn't guarantee any further reliability/longevity than buying el-cheapo stuff.

    FWIW, my NG barbecue suffered a bad spark module exactly ONE year after purchase. The cost of a new ignitor was ridiculous so I just a use match now(much like I resigned to doing with my old Viking)..

    Folks, the message here is very simple. Stuff today is NOT built like it used to be. Everything from home appliances to electronics. It's all planned obsolescence today.

  • velodoug
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I'm very disheartened that we've become such a throw-away society that even spending thousands of dollars for a product doesn't guarantee any further reliability/longevity than buying el-cheapo stuff."

    Don't knock the el-cheapo stuff. A friend bought a $469 Hotpoint range with no electronics. It has worked perfectly from day one.

  • bruce_allen123
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    LOL! Nope, I wasn't knocking that stuff at all. I fully agree with you. My $500 Maytag dishwasher puts my neighbours $1500 Fisher & Paykel machine to shame...

  • joniir
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sorry flyleft,
    Was traveling & only able to quickly check email (not the thread). The oven is on for some time, baking away, when suddenly, BANG!!! Like a gunshot, only once. According to the Bluestar tech, the flame is too high (in the orange) causing the metal to buckle & lose temper. So even adjusting the flame alone will not help, one must replace the oven bottom due to loss of temper (it will continue to bang when heated up) You could check with the manufacturer on their policy. if purchased by gold or platinum cc, even if you are slightly out of warranty, the cc extends warranty coverage up to 2 years...

  • lovetocook9
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    joniir - I recently bought a BS, sight unseen, from what I heard on this forum. My larger oven also made/makes these banging sounds, scared me half to death, thought something might blow up! I called BS on this and they told me not to worry, this is normal with contracting and expanding when it heats and that this should lessen over time....I've never had a pro-style range and thought that maybe this is just normal, didn't really question, thought that it would have to be something that I'd have to get used to... We are in the middle of renovation right now and I haven't used the larger oven for at least a month now so almost forgot about it till coming across this post. Do I understand correctly, yours no longer bangs with the bottom being replaced? Confused and what I should do??

  • guadalupe
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    lovetocook call BlueStar and insist on a replacement oven floor, I did got it and nor longer have the big bang when the floor starts to cool down

  • joniir
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi lovetocook,
    Interestingly, I also bought my Bluestar as a result of this forums discussions...

    I just attempted today to install my new oven bottom & thereupon got a really good look at the inside, once I'd removed the old bottom. I found that it might have a bit more to it than that the flame was simply too high. Subsequently, I am in email discussion with Bluestar (at least from my side, not having had response from Bluestar as yet).

    To the credit of Eurostoves Trevor, whom I purchased through; he has also emailed Bluestar on my behalf to try to sort the whole thing out. Here is some of the email I sent to Bluestar:
    "I've just now adjusted the burner & was about to place the new bottom when I noticed that the back of the oven has a thin metal shelf (bracket) that appears to stabilize the bottom. This thin bracket is bent in a melt-y looking fashion at the center (left-ish), & there are flame "stains" on the actual back of the oven that lead up to that spot. I am now wondering if the flame is going to places that it should not.

    I also found quite a few random hardware bits lying about in there that have no obvious relevance to anything. They are rather hard to describe, little round items that may be a tiny screw or bolt, among other little round donut shaped items. all are without anchors to anything at all, just lying about on the floor of the oven.

    Upon further investigation, I realize they are, in fact little screw/bolts that are normally found on the bottom of the oven bottom, itself. There are numerous ones on both the front & back of the unit that secure the underside metal sheet to it.

    At least 3 of them have melted/twisted off the back end of the oven bottom (where the flame "stains" had been licking) & were either in between the 2 metal pieces, or on the stove floor.

    Please advise as to what is to be done about this. I fear that replacing the old oven bottom with the new will simply result in a repetition of the problem & more melted bits of hardware & probable banging, gun shot-like, behavior. I am assuming that the flame should not be licking up the back of the oven & heating the hardware so that they melt/twist off. I would be happy to forward one to you for examination."

    Although my issue may be an isolated case, it is easy enough to check it out in your oven once the bottom is removed. Just look around in there & see if all looks intact & no random bits. If it seems okay, it probably is & just needs the bottom replacement & flame adjustment.

    Best of luck.

  • lovetocook9
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Guadulupe - thanks, I'm supposing that this is not normal : )

    Joniir - Thank you for the input. I'm anxious to get my kitchen renovation complete so that I can take care of these issues. The techs haven't come out as of yet for the once over for our white glove warrenty. I'm hoping they are competent with the BS - (as of yet they don't sell the BS in our area but the repair place works on other pro-style ranges (wolf, viking, thermador, etc., in our area) I have a few other issues going on with the range but was thinking mostly needed fine tuning that they'll take care of when they are here...
    I'm curious, does your oven get hot on the sides? Again, I don't know what to expect never owning a pro-style but it seems to get quite hot...

    Please keep me informed of your situation.

  • marketmadness
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    -intermittent ignitor
    -the units fan blows out the gas line flame, thus creating a high excess of co that vents right out of the top of the stove. only when you turn on the convection does this happen.

    I like the stove otherwise but would like to solve these problems. What should I tell the tech when he arrives on Friday?

    Thanks

  • westcoastcook
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Question: Can I turn up the overall heat in my BS oven? The dial temps are high by about 50 degrees, with a top temp that can barely bake bread. I've called and emailed BS but gotten no response. I'd happily do it myself. I'm in no mood for a warranty fight. The 30" range is only about three months old.

    Thanks!

  • alku05
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Westcoastcook, you shouldn't have a warrenty fight- you're still covered, and I would recommend giving the warranty a try. However, if you want a copy of the service manual, which includes the way to test the oven temp and recalibrate the thermostat if needed, email me through my page and I'll send you a copy.

  • morton5
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've had my Bluestar 36", 6-burner RNB installed about a week and I must report that I am absolutely thrilled. The range cooks better than anything I have used before, and the top is a breeze to clean. After reading Bluestar posts recently, I fully expected to be lacerated by sheet metal, burned by the oven door, killed by a gas leak, alarmed by gunshot-like noises, or driven batty by non-functioning igniters. Okay, now that I've written this, my BS will probably collapse into a heap of junk metal on the kitchen floor. But I hope not, because after 10 years of a crummy Jennair downdraft, I've got my cooking mojo back.

    So far so good on customer service-- Matt Schute rapidly responded to my call about White Glove service.

  • ajnolff_gmail_com
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Okay - I've been lurking for a while and here's my story... I have a 2 yr old RNB30. My husband and I have really enjoyed cooking on it. We had a burner that decided to stop igniting, and for some reason it's fine now. Most recently though we had a cracked (different) igniter, we also had the thing where the other burner igniters will click when the front right one is on low, and my broiler would start with a boom (yikes!). So I sent in a service request to Bluestar. Within a couple of hours Matthew Schutte emailed me back with the name of a service company and the part number for the igniter. The service guy came out, replaced the broiler igniter, showed me how easy it is to replace the burner igniter, and showed me where the ignition module is. Of course while he was here the igniters that usually fire when the front burner is on low stopped doing that!! Anyways when I requested the burner igniter from Bluestar, once again within a couple of hours I had an email from Matthew that said he was sending one out to me "gratis"! So I know it's only a $21 part but that's great service and the tech they recommended was fantastic. I don't know if my igniters will start getting wacky again, but I do know that I can rely on Bluestar to help me with that as well.

  • shakleemom
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Morton & ajnolff... thanks for your positive reviews! Whew...

    We recently ordered a BlueStar range! Can't wait to get it!

  • joniir
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This update is being brought to you entirely to give all those considering the purchase of a Blue Star Range something even more to consider.

    My original postings found above are long & arduous; as has been the continuing saga of my "banging oven"; and this post, shall be. Having complained for over a year & a half from the very beginning of purchase, and their original service dept. man, Pete, long gone, I had to brow beat the current Blue Star service dept. into sending me a new oven bottom; as by this time it was out of warranty. Then subsequently, I had to demand an oven heating element, once I noticed the melted bracket on the oven back as I went to replace the bottom; and the twisted, melted off rivets on the old bottom. In fairness to Blue Star, they did finally go along with it.

    After all that, I had the unpleasant discovery that the oven still banged like a gunshot every time I used it. The only possible unchanged piece of hardware in this sequence of events was the oven back (with the melted bracket welded on it).

    Again I began the process of calling/emailing Blue Star service; but to no avail. They simply would not respond. Finally, I went the route of contacting Trevor at Eurostoves, whom I had purchased from originally, to see if he had any ideas about what could be done. I emailed him photos of the melted oven bracket & back. He contacted Blue Star and they answered him. They like, and respond to Trevor, as he is one of their top sales reps (and in my opinion, a very worthy individual to deal with, if you're seeking major appliances).

    Trevor forwarded the photos of my oven to Blue Star (I will try to post them for reference). Blue Star's answer to Trevor was that this was fine, it would not be a problem even if the bracket was removed altogether. The banging was normal.

    So I decided to despair. Then suddenly I remembered having purchased this range by a platinum credit card which carries an extended warranty through the credit card services that doubles whatever the original warranty was. As it was a 1 year original warranty, I was still a few months away from the end of the 2 year mark, so I immediately contacted my credit card and started a claim. Even though, by rights, Blue Star should've stepped up; it obviously being a defective group of hardware from the get go, I was relieved that it would get fixed, in any case.

    Finally, this is where it starts to get interesting. The credit card services require an estimate of the repair. No problem. The Appliance Barn in Kalona, IA has, since my purchase, begun to carry and service Blue Star's ranges. The service man, Ray, came out and verified that this was obviously a melted oven back and bracket. Now they would simply contact Blue Star to ascertain that the oven back could be replaced, and what the cost of the replacement part would be. Then Appliance Barn would simply send in the estimate to my credit card service and that would be that.

    Well. It just wasn't going to be that simple. I called Appliance Barn 2 weeks after their service call to ask how it was going. Turns out, it wasn't. Initially, Blue Star had simply ignored the request from the Appliance Barn for verification of replacement viability and price, altogether. Appliance Barn did not know what to do about this; they had never been faced with this type of behavior from a vendor.

    Finally, Blue Star's answer was (their actual email response):
    "The first issue with the banging sound coming from the oven is caused by the oven bottom expanding during the heating process. Sometimes this can be reduced by replacing the oven bottom, but we may not be able to eliminate this sound in all units.

    Secondly, I forwarded the oven cavity photos (that they had already seen from Trevor and the Appliance Barn had resent) to our chief engineer for review. His determination was that the rear bracket was hit by some force causing it to bend and "spidering" the enamel coating. The unit does not produce enough heat to melt the metal causing it to bend down. (yes it can, and it did; as attested to by the melted, twisted rivets & old oven bottom still in my possession) This part is held on by basic aluminum rivets. The original rivets would just need to be drilled out and replacements put back in its place. The unit will function normally without the back bracket if needed.
    Due to the unit being out of warranty and the damage not appearing to be the fault of BlueStar I am limited in what support I can give to remedy this situation."

    The interesting bit here being that they were not being asked to do anything (like be responsible), but only answer whether the oven back/cavity could be replaced and give a price for it.

    I determined that I had to tell the credit card services that I still couldn't give them an estimate and to see if they might be able to sort it out with Blue Star.

    Blue Star would not respond to the credit card agent's attempts to contact. The agent finally called me back saying they were at a stand still (again) because they could not get an estimate. I flashed on the idea of Trevor (whom Blue Star always responds to) and told the agent to contact him. She did and Trevor conferenced her with Matt Shutte, service dept. head at Blue Star, right then.

    She called me back to say that they had finally gotten the information from Blue Star that they needed: the range was repairable; but only by Blue Star, themselves. It would need to be shipped (at my expense) to their facility (all 500 pounds of it) and the cost of the repair would be $3000.00. That's right, both she and Trevor heard this clearly; and oddly, simultaneously, John Ditzio (also Blue Star tech) had contacted the Appliance Barn with the exact same information.

    Well. She went on to say that now, at least they could move forward, as there was no way they would be having me send it in for repair when a new one costs the same (once shipping is considered). That she would just have to have the replacement "authorized" by upper management because the ticket price was so high (they can only go up to $2500 without seeking authorization), but she was certain it would be cleared in a few days. That was over 2 weeks ago.

    As of yesterday, the "upper management" wants another opinion. Of what, exactly, it's unclear. There is no one else out here that could give an intelligent opinion as to repairing, as this range is virtually unknown out here in the mid-west of nowhere (and I don't mean Chicago-5 hours away). As far as "Is it melted and banging?" that is certainly observable by anyone. It would appear that Visa is feeling the pinch of the market downturn, as well and doesn't necessarily believe me or the Appliance Barn service man to be able to see/hear those things clearly...and for some reason, they are locked in somewhere in Montana where they cannot (will not) receive email, wherein I could send them the oven cavity photos. I will print & send by snailmail.

    Suffice to say, make sure when you purchase a 500 pounder like this, that you are in a longitude/latitude that allows a comparatively simple return in case after you've paid to have it installed you find it has "issues" or performs less than hoped for.

  • edlg
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'd like to give another Bluestar customer's opinion in the hope that the management at PP will take note of the views of their paying customers and potentially their best advertising (if the customers are happy, that is). I'm basically in the same demographic as kachinee. I chose BS in part because of its straightforward simplicity - basic controls, no fancy electronics, parts that are few and simple and that could be serviced by the mechanically inclined owner. The point made by shannonplus2 that such a simple machine should not have many issues is well taken. I see no reason why it shouldn't run forever.

    At the same time, I recognize that a range is a harsh environment and that parts will wear out on occasion. Though the stove was somewhat expensive, nothing is perfect and I can handle the occasional need for repair. If it's a simple repair then I'd prefer to do it myself, partly to save money but even more so that I don't need to wait for a repair tech. I could replace an oven glow-plug igniter in ten minutes and get on with my cooking. It might take a week to get a repair appointment. Shannonplus2 is completely off-base about the liability issue. As kachinee has said, other manufacturers seem to be able to make parts readily available without getting sued out of existence. A range is both simpler and less dangerous than an automobile, but I seem to be able to buy parts for my car. As for the danger of messing with a gas appliance, I did my own gas plumbing (as local code allows me to do) so why shouldn't I work with gas plumbing inside the range? I'm an engineer - I think I can handle repairing this simple appliance.

    Shannonplus2 is correct that there is a business-model component involved in the decision about selling parts, and that's the point I want to make to PP management. Limiting the customer's options and insisting on complete control is the very same mistake that Apple Computer made. I'm a Macintosh user, but I recognize that Apple chose very poorly in keeping their platform closed and expensive. If MacOS had been licensed early on then there would have been no Windows. Microsoft would not dominate 95% of the PC market as they do today. If you let your customers make their own choices and help them save money then you will prosper. If you limit their options and gouge them then they will go elsewhere, even if the alternative is an inferior product (from its introduction in 1985 until release of Windows 95 no objective reviewer thought that Windows was as good as MacOS).

    The Bluestar range can be marketed on three basic strengths: superior cooking performance, simple sturdy reliability, and value. You lack the brand recognition of the likes of Wolf and Viking so those buying a range just to impress others will likely not choose BS. Many more, though, who want a pro-style range for actual cooking, will go with performance, reliability, and value. Word-of-mouth from happy owners will build the Bluestar brand like nothing else can. By all means work to fix your build quality issues, but in the mean time help your customers solve any problems that do arise and help them keep their appliances working well. You'll never make back in parts what you'll lose in sales by making your customers unhappy about the problems that inevitably arise.

    My own experience with Bluestar has been that they are already doing what I'm suggesting. I did have an early issue with a pinched wire on my range and Bluestar was very good about getting it fixed. The range is a joy to cook on and we appreciate it every day. Most people who see our new kitchen take quite an interest in the Bluestar range and we heartily recommend it. The longer it keeps working well for me, the more lavishly I'll praise it to others. What better advertising could you possibly get than customers who say "We've had it for years and we love it"?

  • johnnytugs1
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    hi everyone, i'm not one to keep my mouth shut about things that urk me. i'm a regular guy, i make good money, my spelling is marginal, my grammer is ok at best. but berryberry have you ever had a problem that wasn't resolved with your appliances? with your car? with anything? if you spent a few grand on something and due to some circumstances it broke and you couldn't address it quick enough. how would you feel if the manufacturer told you to go pound salt and if you didn't have the money to fix it after say a 25,000. remodel the previous year? what would you do? if i replaced a couple of spark modules and they kept burning out or going bad why in gods green earth would i want another of the same make. granted there may be an underlining reason why they are going bad but the avg. joe doesn't break things down. i've been following things on GW and i have a great deal of respect for alot of people on here. if i was going to buy a bluestar i wouldn't even consider buying it from any one but trevor @ eurostoves because with satisfied customers, the law of averages is in his favor and he seems to care. i don't own a bluestar i own another range and i respect the guy i bought it from & the manufacturer that i chose but christ step out of your perfect world and put yourself in the other guys shoes. i've built racecars, houses,i can navigate the globe by water, still trying to figure out the world wide web but did save a guys life once, but i don't feel comfortable letting some of the morons that call themselves appliance guys in my house. the best part is the people who make my range respect that and when i had a problem with mine they supplied me someone who wanted me to get my problem resolved. after spending half the night trying to follow this thread i just wanted you to know what i feel. continued success to everyone here. keep the information comming no matter good or bad. let the perspective buyer make a decision they can live with.
    john
    917-842-1809

  • llaatt22
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    joniir, if your credit card issuer will give you a cash settlement of $2000 or better, I would take it and close the book. Life can be unfair. In these hard economic times it is better to have a bird in the hand. Plus you can sell the good parts off the old lemon to other deserving owners who may have trouble finding parts in the future.

  • shannonplus2
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Edlg - just to be clear, you attributed a couple of things to me that I never said ("liability issue", "business-model component").

  • johnzane
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No product line is without lemons. Still, it's no comfort to be stuck with one. Professional chefs have felt your pain for years, simply because restaurant ranges are a finicky lot, expensive to fix, and were never really meant to be brought home. Yet they continued to try. I've found only two manufacturers, Bluestar and Capital, that have delivered on the promise of a professional range made for home use, without the $10K price tag. Given the breed is still new, and not all the statistics are in, I wouldn't recommend them to anyone other than professional cooks, at least until they show up on Consumer Reports.

    We absolutely love our Bluestar, even after all the electronic igniters failed. We simply removed them entirely, and surprise-surprise! You can get an even lower flame heat lighting them by hand.

  • ya_think
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "We absolutely love our Bluestar, even after all the electronic igniters failed. We simply removed them entirely, and surprise-surprise! You can get an even lower flame heat lighting them by hand."

    So five grand later (or whatever your model cost) you invested in a book of matches? Sorry, but to me that's like gathering up strangers in the parking lot to help push-start your Lamborghini.

    Ok, just for fun I'll pretend to buy into the premise that every brand has ignitor issues (but only Bluestar owners tend to voice them) but have you read the recent threads about oven door hinge problems? The latest victim claims to have had five service calls which included not only new hinges but a new freakin' range and STILL can't roll the "full extension" bottom rack out all the way. Give me a break!!!

    I'm being dead honest when I say I can't begin to name a range than I want more than a Bluestar, but every time I see crap like this I feel like I'd be a moron to buy one.

  • edlg
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    shannonplus2, I'm sorry, I attributed to you those two things that should be attributed to berryberry. My apologies.

  • stocktongal
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Does Bluestar come from the same lineage as Garland stoves?

  • handel27
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    designed and originally marketed by Garland (who holds the patent on the star shaped burner). Garland contracted with PP to make them, and when the home biz proved too small for their biz model, sold the design and brand to PP.

  • divadeva
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Okay, this thread is darn scary. My husband and I have wanted a Blue Star for 2 years now...because it doesn't have all of the electronics other brands do and we believe(d?)that it will be reliable.

    Monday, I'm calling my appliance repair man. I'm going to ask him if he's seen BS (he hadn't 2 years ago, but we're a small town). This repair man has solved Bosch problems for me in the past (yay Bosch, I still buy their dish washers...had a quick affair with F/P dish drawers but it ended badly) and he helped resolve a sad issue with a disappointing Meile oven. (That was when they first brought out convection, so don't take that as a Meile critique.)

    I've noticed on all appliances that if the dealer won't provide great local service or won't pay the going rate of a decent repair man that they're just poison and stay away. When we first moved to this little town there was no high end appliance sales shop. We bought from us-appliances on the internet. They were (and are) great and led us to this brilliant appliance repair shop. The shop which charges higher rates, which us-a. was willing to pay for.

    I'm going to go with what my repair man tells me. Not the dealer and not the manufacturer. Love the one you're with.

    I agree with everyone here who said that if reliability is part of your decision path, part of what what you're paying extra money for, then you should receive it. I also agree that in this world reputation is everything. I completely agree that it's a sad world, caveat emptor, and purchase an extended appliance warranty whenever it's offered. And wear your seat belt. It's crazy out there.

    Diva

  • ya_think
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Diva - How far are you from Sacramento? They've got a handful of dealers there so there must be service available as well. I suggest you contact Golden West (the regional distributor) and ask them for a list of authorized service centers in your area. One of the guys from GW posts here, so maybe he'll offer some help too.

    If your repairman is familiar with Bluestar and can speak first hand to issue resolution then his opinion may be valuable. But if he has no direct experience then who's to know if that's because there are none in your area or because there are none with problems in your area?

  • amcook
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think there's a misconception about "reliability" that plagues discussions about ranges and cooktops. The issue I see is that most of the issues that people complain about are exactly the features that are demanded today but was not even available 20-30years ago. Many people say things like, "My mom's range lasted 20 years without problems. The issue I have with that statement is that ranges back then didn't have electronic ignition/re-ignition. It is well established that this single feature is the majority of service calls for any cooktop or range today. Unfortunately, this feature is also considered a must have by today's standards. Heck, you want reliability, how about a stove that was just a wood burning chamber with iron surface on top where you can remove a cap to expose a hole to release heat to your pan. That's the ultimate in reliability.

    Yes, reliability is important but let's be honest with ourselves about the fact that we demand the features today which are those that we find unreliable. Doesn't matter what brand, the ignition system is the most likely to fail and has the shortest life. The rest is just plumbing. Also, my parents range of 28 years is still working but you know what, it hasn't dependably ignited for about 20 of those years. They just use a lighter or match on it when it doesn't light. And yet, today, if a range fails to re-ignite or takes a bit longer to light, people say it's unreliable. To me, the end function of a range is to provide heat for cooking and that is reliable for 20+ years even in today's ranges. How it lights is a matter of convenience and is easily solved by a $2 lighter. This is why in a restaurant setting, pilot light is still pretty typical. In fact, I had a case where the pilot light was set too low and kept going out. The solution was to light all the frequently used burners in the morning and leave them on simmer. Yes, it wastes some gas but the burners were only "off" for a couple of minutes or seconds throughout the day.

    All I can say is, after having ignition problems with a Viking and repairing it myself, what I see in the design of my Bluestar cooktop gives me confidence that even if it failed out of warranty, I'd have no problem replacing the whole ignition system myself. With the Viking, it involved taking the bottom off which may require lifting the whole thing out. In the Bluestar, everything is accessible through the lift up top. The burners come out and the ignitors can be replaced without even lifting the top off. The spark unit is under a protective cover which comes off with 2 screws. So, for that reason alone, I bought mine with confidence because even long after my warranty I knew I could replace the components for the ignition system myself. I think if you research any of the brands, you'll find similar complaints about the ignition system after the first year or two.

    Finally, I'm not defending Bluestar in any way when a I say that the ignition system is the most likely to fail. I simply state that as a known fact in the industry and that *ALL* brands suffer from it. Therefore, if you want a professional grade for the home gas range then it *is* something you have to live with and accept. Then understanding that all modern high-end ranges (with re-ignition) has similar problems, my decision is simply based on performance and ease of maintenance. In these two areas, Bluestar has the easy win.

  • ya_think
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    amcook - You make some excellent points. But while I can't back this statement up, my honest recollection would suggest that if you were to count up every ignitor/spark module issue ever posted in this forum, you'd find that Bluestar's count would be higher than all other brands combined. That's what I don't get. And what I get even less is why we barely EVER hear about these issues with "regular" ranges and cooktops. Surely if these were malfunctioning at such a high rate on all the GE's and Frigidaires out there, at least once in a while someone would come here to ask how to go about a DIY repair on an out-of-warranty range, wouldn't you think? It's not a heat thing, as just about every modern range has at least one burner that pumps out pro-style level BTUs. So what is it?

  • amcook
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You are absolutely correct that complaints about various brands vary. It also varies over time. I'm not going to make any claims about the number of Bluestar complaints vs any other brand because there's no way I can count them or back them up as you say. I've been lurking around here for about 2 years and only just this year started more actively posting. In that time, I've read a bunch of complaints about Wolf and Viking. I've also frequented chowhound which also has discussions of cooktops and ranges and find that the number of Wolf and Viking complaints there seem higher than here. I think it's partially due to the makeup of the posters at a given point and time. It would be interesting to hear form some of the dealer members who sell various brands to give us a broader view about one brand vs. another.

    From my observation alone, the design of my current Bluestar burners seem to be better than my previous Viking in a couple of areas. First, as I mentioned the ease of maintenance is much improved with the Bluestar. Second, the burners have a row of holes specifically designed to provide an ignition point. Not so with the Viking. I found that unless you rotate the cap just right, the spark from the ignitor may not actually cross one of the holes for the gas/flame. Even with best alignment, the spark is not directly over any of the nozzles. That was a huge problem for me. Third, the location of the ingitor is in the inner ring of the burner which is less likely to be affected by a spill. My viking was prone to complete ignition failure (meaning no sparking on any of the burners) if any liquid got into the ignitor. Unfortunately, this happened much more frequently than I liked in the case of even a minor spill or even during routine cleaning.

    Bluestar is not perfect. The ignitors do stick out more and are more exposed than the Viking. It's also a more commercial range design which is simpler but possibly more prone to damage. I believe these two factors account for the reports of physical damage (aka. cracking). IMHO, an ignitor that takes less than 5 min to replace, is covered for 2 years, and cost less than $10 to purchase (around $6-7 a couple of years ago) if not in warranty is a non-issue for me. But then that's based on what I am willing to deal with and expect. I can also respect other opinions that may not be in agreement with mine.

    Now, my thoughts on why the pure consumer brands don't have such issues.. perhaps they do but people who spend $300-500 on a range may not spend as much time as we do complaining about things we don't like. :) Also, from some of the older designs that I've seen, the ignitor is inside a tube or other gas chamber which has better chance of lighting. That is one thing that I always wonder why more "pro" ranges do have which is a little cap over the ignitor to collect gas for better ignition. Also, heat may be a factor since the higher intensity heat the ignitor (specifically the ceramic insulation tube/ring) is exposed to on a high-end range will cause more wear in a shorter amount of time. Consumer ranges don't come close to 15k btu typically. I think most are closer to 10-12k at it's highest. Compare that to 22k and you've got a pretty big difference.

  • guadalupe
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The reason BlueStar would have more ignitor issues is that if the air shutter adjustments are not properly done at time of installation the ignitors will spark until the air shutters are properly adjusted. Since they have instituted white glove service that complaint has greatly been reduced.

  • PRO
    Trevor Lawson (Eurostoves Inc)
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think one important thing to consider is that "Bluestar" was popularized nationally by the Garden Web.....Consequently the percentage of Bluestar ranges sold via the Garden Web and reported on the Garden web for good or bad reasons will be much higher than wolf or Viking.

    The above COULD be the reason you see more ignition issues on this site for Bluestar than other brands.

    I would also have to say that I have seen a notable drop in service calls for my Bluestar customers with problems over the last 12 - 18 months and yet my sales have grown. Is that related to improvements by Bluestar or because they are over that bad batch of modules, I hope its a little of both.

  • annemarie29
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow, I had thought I wanted a BStar, until I read this, now I'm still open but will take more time to decide. I actually liked open burners better than closed burners, so that is why I was leaning toward it. Other choice is a DCS, anyone have one of those?

  • randgalt
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    FYI - I haven't read this entire thread.

    I have a BlueStar cooktop. 60" - 6 burners, grill and griddle. I also have their 24" salamander.

    The burners and grill have been perfect. The griddle is not keeping proper heat. The salamander has a bad burner.

    BlueStar has been very responsive in trying to get it fixed. I feel confident that it will get fixed eventually. Given the boutique nature of the product and its performance, I have no problem with this level of service.

  • p10rs
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    HELLO EVERYONE, I found this thread while goolging information on the Bluestar igniter and ignition module problem. I have owned a 36 Bluestar( 4 burner with grill) since November of 2005 and it recently started with the always-clicking problem. The range is fabulous to cook with and on and has met all my expectations. As to the quality of other semi-pro ranges my only experience has been a close friend in NC who spent one year trying to have his oven fixed on a brand new Viking. I was at his home on a couple of occasions when the "local"repairman came over from Johnson City, Tn. (about an hours drive) and the range looked like a computer inside. After 5 or 6 trips ever circuit board had been replaced at least once and the oven still would not work for longer than a week or two. Viking finally sent him a replacement range. The circuit boards cost many, many hundreds of dollars each and after the warranty expires you are buying them. In addition the entire range has to be moved out from the wall and the back disassembled to get to the boards. So I wouldnt complain too much about your Bluestar and its ignition module problems.
    Now as to the clicking problem. Lots of talk and not much investigation or thought going on here especially by those persons who dislike Bluestar. Im not an electrical engineer but have you considered the nature of the ignition and re-ignition system?
    The simple part is sending an electrical signal down a wire to the igniter, causing a spark and igniting the gas. The hard part is using the same apreratious to monitor the flame and being able to report back to the ignition module that the flame is still lit or at some later time that the flame has gone out so the electrical signal can be re-sent to re-light the flame. All in all it would be much simpler to just have the spark fire when the gas control knob is turned to a specific location and then off when the knob is turned away from the "LIGHT" setting to adjust the gas flame. However no one seems to want to make it that simple so here we are.
    I have taken apart several of the igniters that were original to my range and they are in fact reasonable well constructed. The wire is covered with a high temp heat resistant covering, the "barrel" male electrical fitting is well made and fully shielded, the copper wire is 20 gage, stranded and tinned. The fault with the igniter is that the wire is connected to the stainless steel "spark probe" by what is apparently a plain metal crimped fitting. This crimped fitting is apparently rusting from water, cleaning fluids, whatever and I believe leading to two problems: 1. Cracking of the porcelain insulator from rust pressure (think rusting rebar and concrete) and 2. Increasing the resistance of the circuit so that the ignition module thinks the flame has gone out when it has not. This may also lead to stress on the module its self and cause premature failure of the same.
    There is an easy fix for those of you who have a Philips screwdriver, needle nose pliers and can use them and would rather do so than write nasty e-mails and bogs all day long.
    There is a source of parts on the web for both the ignition modules and the new and improved igniters( that Viking is using) The web site is called guybanks.com. They sell Viking range parts but they have both brands of ignition modules( 4 and 6 burner models) and the new "flat top" igniters. The flat top igniters are sealed to prevent fluids from entering them and I suspect preventing them from rusting and disrupting the electrical circuit of the re-light system.
    You can adapt the new flat top igniters to work with your Bluestar burners easily as follows: 1. Remove old style igniter 2. Break ceramic insulator with a hammer up by the metal probe 3 cut probe off just below the connector that connects the wire and the metal probe. 4 pull wire out of broken ceramic insulator 5 drive out the rest of ceramic insulator with a round object (Phillips screw driver) and a tap from your hammer-it comes out very easy. 6 attach the metal fitting that was around the igniter to the new flat top igniter with a little bit of prematex ultra copper high temp RTV (NOTE THE OBLONG END OF THE REUSED METAL FITTING MUST FACE THE SAME DIRECTION AS THE FLAT TOP IGNITER- ON THE FIRST ONE DO A DRY RUN WITH BURNER TO SEE HOW IT FITS BEFORE YOU GLUE THEM 7 set aside to cure- about two hours 8 strip clipped end of wire and attach a new 18-22 gage insulated female spade clip to end of the wire so you can plug it on to the bottom of the new flat top igniter (they dont come with a wire) 9 attach new igniters back to the burners. You will need 4 or 5 6x32 machine screws and about 10 small washers. Just take one of the old igniter screws with you to the hard ware store. Get the shortest screws you can. Mount the "new" flat top igniters with the old/new screws and washers as needed. You want the igniters to sit flat so you will have to put a washer or 2 under the screw so the igniter sits flat and thus stands straight and is in the proper location next to the "flame holes" on the burners. Be sure it is not touching the burner ( it would be grounded and not spark, nor to far from the bottom flame hole) Once you look at it and do one you will see how easy it really is. The part number for the new igniter is PA020028.

    Now the next thing is the ignition module. The one Viking(PA020042-6 BURNNER-TYTRONICS) uses is not a drop in replacement for the one Bluestar uses so it takes a little fussing around to get it back into the same location(mounting holes and blades in different places) . I suspect this is why Bluestar has not changed their brand of modules because they obviously designed their controls and front panel around one particular sized module. THE IMPORTANT THING TO DO AND REMEMBER WHEN CHANGING ANY MODULE IS TO LABEL AND WRITE DOWN WHERE THE WIRES CAME FROM!!!!! Three wires are pretty self-explanatory, ground, neutral, and line(hot). Then there is one set of wires that are labeled 1-4 or 1-6. These wires come from the control knobs( the switches behind the control knobs really) and turn on the electrical spark to the correct burner. The blades are the same size as the gdn, neutral and line blades. When you remove these 4 or 6 wires just use a magic marker and put 1 slash, 2 slashes, 3 slashes etc on the appropriate wire when removing as a double check. You will clearly be able to see which wire you are removing from which blade. Use a flashlight, go slow and by the way use needle nose pliers to pull the wires off the blades(pull on the plastic fitting, not on the wire)
    Next you will need to remove the wires that run to the igniters. These are NOT labeled and if you later hook them up to the wrong burner it will click forever even if it has lit, thus defeating the entire purpose of this repair job!!!!!! These 4 or 6 wires are on the opposite side of the module. The metal blades are much smaller than the ones you just worked with and there is a number imprinted into the plastic case next to the blade. However it is very difficult to read if not impossible while the module in the range(invensys module-original Bluestar equipment if you dont want to change brand of modules). The good thing is it is easy to figure out where these wires go if you get confused. All you have to do is attach each of the "slashed marked" wires one at a time to its correct blade and turn it on. The igniter will click, and you will know it "wire/circuit x " so just mark that on the burner holder. Once you have them all marked just trace the wire from a burner, say number 3, to the small blade labeled 3 and plug the wire in. test it and you are all done. By the way, on the invensys module, these smaller blades are numbered 1-4/6 from left to right, just like the bigger blades.( on the TYTRONICS module the small blades are numbered so you can easily read them)
    One last point. If you use a six-burner module in a four-burner stove you have to jumper small blades 4 and 6 together and then ground them to a screw on the range. Not a big deal.
    There is another thread on this site that has to do with the same problem. Down about half way look for a post by annalbin 12-21-08 . Read it and notice what mistakes they made when they replaced their ignition module. I used their post to start my fix and it was some help, but they didnt do it the easy way. It would be nice if they would scan the Bluestar instructions and post them on this forum. I cant post a link to it but the thread name is: BLUE STAR IGNITOR ISSUE REDUX

    The ignition module is located behind the front control panel. All the control knobs come off, gentle pull off or if they need a little help pry both sides at the same time with two small flat blade screw drives until they move a quarter of an inch or so, then finish the removal by hand. The panel its self is attached by ( in my case-36" range) three screws above the control knobs and three under the bottom of the panel. It does help to have a long (6 inch metal blade before the handle) Phillips screw driver so your hands and the handle will be below the control panel when removing the top 3 screws. You must have the oven door open, no need to remove and the drip shelf? out. When you replace the panel you will have to push it up and in a little. Start with the upper, outside edge screws. The upper middle panel screws dont always want to line up just right with the screw holes, so just take your flat blade screw driver, put in slightly into one of the extra upper panel slots(you will see them) and just gently push or pull the panel until it lines up- very easy to do)
    Now I suppose the question is how do you tell if the problem is/are the individual igniters or the ignition module? Well if an igniters cracked, duh- that one is simple. If all the igniters spark and dont turn off when your burner lights then it must? Be the module. I guess the question is, is that all of the possibilities in the fault tree? It would seem as if there are other possibilities such as a bad igniter with an internal fault but no external signs of the fault. I wonder what symptoms that would present and how would one diagnose such a problem? Any one care to take an educated guess?
    LEGAL DISCLAIMER: I ALREADY TOLD YOU IM NOT AN ELECTRICAL ENGINEER NOR DO I HAVE AN FORMAL TRAINING IN THE DESIGN OF GAS RANGES, OR ELECTRICAL IGNITION SYSTEMS. I DONT THINK YOU CAN KILL YOUR SELF OR YOU SPOUSE OR DOG OR CAT OR WHATEVER NOR DO I THINK YOU WILL SCREW UP YOUR WONDERFUL BLUESTAR RANGE, BUT YOU DO KNOW WHAT FEE ADVICE IS WORTH, DONT YOU? I SUGGEST YOU REMOVE YOUR CONTROL PANEL, LOOK AT THE INTERESTING PARTS BEHIND IT AND IF YOU ARE NOT INTIMIDATED BY WHAT YOU SEE ORDER THE PARTS AND GO FOR IT. WHAT THE HELL WE DIDNT GET TO THE MOON BY SITTING AROUND ON OUR COLLECTIVE BUTTS AND WHINING.

  • sayde
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow!
    I get that the takeaway message you're supposed to leave with from this post is: you can fix your BlueStar yourself, once, and for all.

    The message I think I'm getting -- if, as the p10rs says, Viking has replaced its problem ignitors with Tytronics ignitors, and if you're just getting a rangetop with no oven, does that mean that now one could expect Viking to be at least as problem free as all the other "pro" rangetops?

  • p10rs
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    DARN IT, I HAVE A COUPLE OF TYPOS IN MY POST. DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW I CAN EDIT IT? THANKS IN ADVANCE

  • weissman
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No way to edit or delete an existing post - if the typos are significant then just post corrections - otherwise don't worry about it

  • p10rs
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    HELLO AGAIN EVERY ONE, after my post on Sunday I discovered a few typos after I printed my tome out. Additionally I wanted to respond to saydes post.
    FIRST THE TYPOS-THE MAJOR ONES ANYWAYS:

    A. When I was talking about using a 6-burner module in a 4-burner range I stated you must " jump small blades 4 and 6 together and then ground them to a screw on the range. Not a big deal." IT SHOULD READ SMALL BLADES 5 AND 6.

    B. LEGAL DISCLAIMER: "BUT YOU KNOW WHAT YOU GET FOR FEE" SHOULD READ WHAT YOU GET FOR FREE.

    C. When discussing the procedure to re-build/mount new flat top igniters, item #9, I stated you should put one or two washers under the screw so the igniter sits flat and thus stands straightThe washers should be placed under the old reused mounting flange so the igniter sits flat. The screw will go through the old flange, new washers and into the burner as it did with the old igniter.

    D. The new flat top igniters will have a mounting flange that sits 90 degrees from where you want the old flange to be glued. This new flange will just sit on both sides of the burner and will not interfere with anything at all. In fact it will probably make the new/rebuilt igniter more stable when attached to the burner. This will be very oblivious to you when you do a dry run as per #6

    E. When I was discussing how to figure out which wires ran to which igniters if you got those wires mixed-up I said " the igniter will click, and you will know it is "wire/circuit x" so just mark that on the burner holder. In the next sentence I said plug the igniter wire from burner 3 to small blade 3, test it and you are all done. WELL IN ORDER TO DO THIS TEST TO FIND OUT WHICH WIRE GOES TO WHICH IGNITER ALL THE IGNITER WIRES WOULD HAVE TO BE PLUGGED INTO THE SMALL BLADES AT ONE TIME and YOU WOULD ATTACH THE BIG BLADES ONE AT A TIME, TEST, LABEL(the burner) REMOVE AND GO TO THE NEXT ONE. AS TO THE SMALL BLADES SINCE THEY ARE ALL PLUGGED IN YOU WOULD JUST REARRANGE EACH ONE SO IT WOULD BE ON THE CORRECT BLADE, IE: wire/circuit #1 to small blade # 1, etc

    NOW AS TO saydes post. There are two distinct problems. One being the igniters, which is the device mounted on the burner which sparks and the second being the ignition module which is the electronic device which produces the energy for the spark and monitors whether or not the burner is still lit. It is very hard to tell from the guybanks web site which ignition module(s) is new or old as the four of them listed, 2 white,( one obviously Invensys) and 2 blue (one of which I know is a Tytronics), all have multiple Viking ranges associated with them. The part I received (PA020042) was labeled as having been made in 2005. However the 4 igniters I received were all made in May of 2008 so I assume these are the new Viking igniters.
    So to answer your questions: yes, you can fix your Bluestar once and for all using the new Viking "flat top igniters" and Tytronics ignition module.
    As far as Vikings igniter problem I would say they have it fixed as long as the model you purchase has the flat top igniters.
    Viking appears to have switched from Invensys ignition modules to Tytronics, so as long as the Tytronics work better or are of a better design or quality then I would thing that problem is solved, although Im not sure if there is a Tytronics replacement for every Viking model.
    For those of you who dont want to go through the hassle of switching from Invensys to Tytronics, well now you have a place to buy them, somewhat less expensive and much more response( from what some posts say) Guybanks ships orders out in a day or two by USPS.

  • lucretzia
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like to cook and am somewhat limited in what I can use in my kitchen because of space. A 36" cooktop and separate double wall ovens would be ideal, however I cannot forgo the counter space. I thought a good alternative would be a 30 or 36" range, with a separate undercounter oven so that I can have two ovens. The drawback to the 30" range is the number of burners; G.E. Profile has a 30" with 5 burners but it seems crowded, and I don't like the look. I was attracted to the bluestar 30" RCS for its affordability, ($3650) but as I read more on this website, it sounds problematic. Has anyone had experience with the Frigidaire 36" pro style stove? Is it completely out of the league with the others? According to Consumer Reports, it sounds much more reliable. Another alternative might be the Jenn air 48", if the 2nd oven is sufficient, in which case I would forgo a separate undercounter wall oven. Has anyone had experience with it? It is attractive, but I want it to be functional and reliable as well. Beyond that, I can not see spending the money on one of the pros, as they do not get good ratings for reliability. Big decision!

  • speedymonk
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bluestar isn't the only manufacturer of expensive ovens that bail on the customer after the 12-month warranty expires. We had a similar experience with Dacor, although the oven worked there were problems. The lower oven's fan crapped out after four uses. I had to use my home warranty to get it fixed. Fan was bad out of the gate. Seized motor.

    What I have found is that heat and electronics don't mix. God help us if the computer logic board goes. We were told it would cost $1,800 (that's right!) to replace it. Another American-made company that charges a lot of money ($5,800 in this case) and won't step up to correct problems two weeks after a warranty expires.

    It's like the auto industry. We used to build a good, reliable product that would last. Not anymore.

  • p10rs
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    SPEEDYMONK, i think you missed one of the points in my first post, that being BLUESTAR has no $1,800 computer circuit boards. other than the igniters and ignition module and a couple of other little parts it is remarkably an analog device which is why I believe it is easy to fix by anyone who has any basic skills at all and in spite of its perceived faults(by some) a much better choice than other high end ranges.

  • BackyardCook
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Timeline on the Bluestar that nearly burned down the house:

    July 2007 Bluestar 30" RNB manufacture altered for LP purchased

    October 2007 door froze shut. 3 months later a new door finally arrived and was installed.

    December 2009 igniter and safety valve went

    May 2010 igniter and safety valve went - MANY emails and phone calls later someone from Bluestar in PA finally agreed to speak with me and told me that despite the fact that the igniter broke again six months later what did I expect from a range so old? (purchased in July of 2007)

    December 2010 igniter and safety valve went - after some VERY ugly communications Bluestar agreed to pay for the parts and service call

    Friday, September 16, 2011 - 15 minutes into preheating the oven to 400 degrees flames burst through the right side of the closed door igniting the front of the oven door and sending flames shooting up the right side of the oven and pantry wall. My ten year old daughter entered the house, heard 'crackling' coming from the kitchen, reached through the flames and turned the gas off before calling me (I was just pulling onto our street).

    I don't think self destruct is in the manual.

    Also, as if it really matters at this point, the igniters on the front two burners went within the first 18 months. Too expensive to have them replaced so we were using matches but at least that was an option.

  • BackyardCook
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    FOLLOW UP - Having just read this ENTIRE string (wow) I want to make something perfectly clear. All of those igniter issues in the string? Yep, I've experienced every one of them (now I understand SO much more) but what I'm getting at is the oven igniter. THAT'S what was replaced every six months until flames shot out the oven door nine months after the last replacement.

    And I'm thinking about the poor guy with the blown out oven back...

    I don't live in the middle of nowhere, by the way. I'm in Stamford, CT, 40 miles outside of NYC and you'd THINK I could get service in under a month. You would think.

    In any event, it was a wonderful, incredible machine when it was working and right up until it nearly burned my house down I truly loved it. Now I'll never have another Bluestar product in my house.

    Yes, things break. Yes, we have painted ourselves into this corner of non-durable consumer durables (see the capital consumer economic model that's slowly sort of killing us at the moment). I do not, however, expect to be blown up in my own home by a pre-heating kitchen appliance.

    Somehow an acquaintance of mine managed to come up with the name, number and email address of one Mike Trapp at Bluestar in PA who's response to my plight was as follows:

    "I am the President of this fabulous company. I will do whatever I can to assist you. There must be something amiss here. Our repair rate is next to 0. We are a boutique manufacturer. If you call me on Monday, I will dig into your issue and assist you. Thank you."

    We did send an email.

    But quite honestly? I don't expect a response back from Bluestar on this one either. Just. Not. Their. Problem.

    On the other hand it's not my problem anymore either. Now it's Chubb's problem and I'm in the market for another range without an electronic panel because I still believe that�s the way to go, less being more and all that.

  • Deborah Taggart
    6 years ago

    I know this is an old thread, but I came across it while searching for authorized repair services in Los Angeles for my Bluestar Platinum range. We've had problems with it since the beginning. It is now two years old and we had $750 worth of repairs two months ago, only to have two burners stop working. I would NEVER buy a Bluestar again. Worst investment we've made in a long time.