thanks Bill :)

I have a new question: do i have to protect my shower curb edges?

I am using matte white 2x2 ceramic tiles that are only 3/16" thick on the shower floor, and was planning to carry them over onto the curb sides & top. I don't think there are bullnose available. I am wondering though - since they are so thin at 3/16, i could probably (maybe?) get away with not bullnosing them and just let the grout be the connection between the top & the sides... but will that leave it vulnerable?

my other option is schluter trim, probably brushed aluminum since I'm afraid the pvc will look bad faster than my tile job will, since i'd get white.

thoughts?

lisa

Lisa-- I don't know whose ceramic mosaics you're using, but every one I've ever used (including Monarch, Florida Tile, American Olean, Romany Spartan, and Dal), makes bullnose for all their 1x1 and 2x2 lines. You might have to special order it, but it IS available. That said there's always another alternative for the curb top:

thanks bill - you made me rethink what was said at the tile place and what had actually not been available was *floor* tile in that shade. i'll have to ask them about the bullnose - i'll bet you're right. that will make me feel better plus give me a cleaner look. if it is available, would i use it both on the top of the curb (back to back) and on the top row on the sides of the curb? so they kind of slope down & meet at the edges of the curb?

a related question:
do you think that i can get a strong enough outer edge on a tub deck by just using tile & underlayment? the top of the tub deck will have minimal surface exposed, since the tub takes up all but 4-5 inches of my space. i'm worried about knees on it when turning on faucets, bumping it while getting out, etc. not enough room to sit on really, but then you never know what someone may try :)

we will for sure use ditra or kerdi - which is better for the top of a tub deck?
what about the front of the deck?
i'm planning on using kerdi on the walls, tiled about 3 feet up, with drywall behind, since it's not a shower.

thanks
lisa

You would use the bullnose ONLY on top of the curb. Run the flat tile right to the edge, and then cap over it with the bullnose.

Concerning your tubdeck-- I'm assuming that because you have a separate shower, there will be no shower head over the tub. You do not need to waterproof the deck, but it certainly wouldn't hurt. This is actually a place where you could use one of several different products (in case the Kerdi runs short after the shower). One of the most popular products for tub deck waterproofing is found at Home Depot. it's a product called Redgard, that gets troweled or painted on. THe same product can be used on the front of the deck (tub skirt).

Here is a link that might be useful: Redgard

thanks bill - when i first read this i was like "oh, man! now i have to learn something *else* new?" but it actually looks a lot easier than the learning curve i had with the kerdi. and i could use it up the walls & on the apron as well. i do have a little bit of kerdi left (thanks to your suggestion that i run it horizontal! :) but not enough to do the tub. this will let me save what i have so i can use it to seal the ditra seam when we do the floor.

thanks!
lisa

well, i went by my tile place today to pick up some 4x4 bullnose and asked them about the 2x2 - of course they don't have it :( not even special order. these are their own branded tile, and they had to change companies recently since the old one got pushed out of business by all the cheap competition (50+ year old local place - sad) but it left them with limited options with the new company, so they only have field tile. the white is a great shade, which is why i chose them.

but i came back home and was looking at the floor tile that matches closely with my wall tile, and i realized they have a 2x2 mosaic as well! plus they have bullnose! i bought the ones from the tile store because i thought i would be doing all my tiling over c'mas, but since i put that off to tend to the details more closely, i think i may try to return those and go with the ones that will match my floor tile. then i'll only have 2 different shades of white in the room.

here's my question, bill - they only have 2x2 regular bullnose, not the kind that extends past the edge and covers up the side tiles. will that still work? with these would i have bullnose on both the top & sides of the curb, meeting together at the edges?

thanks for all your patience :)

lisa

Here is a link that might be useful: the mohawk tile - trim is at the bottom

i think i get how the bullnose works now - even the regular bullnose extends past the top edge of the curb on either side and the side tiles are field tiles & butt up onto that extended "nose". what stinks is that leaves me about a 1" gap in the middle of the curb :/ maybe i can find some cool little mosaic to throw in there instead of cutting a bunch of tile...

I think you answered your own question! :-)

This is why we DIY-ers call it an 'opportunity' instead of a 'problem'. When something goes pear shaped, the solution often makes for a better end product. A row of glass mosaics will be some nice bling! You can even incorporate a few more somewhere else in the design to tie it all together.

Good luck!

yeah, cod, I agree - the more i've been thinking about it, the more i like it... i already have some larger glass tile i'm sprinkling in randomly, but this could be more whimsical and wouldn't have to be so anally matched like the rest of my choices seem to be :)
as much work as this whole project has become, it is still fun sometimes, so i'm really glad for that. having a friend to help hands-on who knows bits about everything helps tremendously, as does having bill here everyday :) bill - i remember seeing a post on another site where a lady asked a question, got several replies rather quickly, then huffed & whined about why hasn't BILL answered my question yet??!! :) the guys laughed and said "oh this must be GW" and the lady sort of blushed and said she forgot that you weren't just sitting on the other end with nothing to do but wait for her next question :)

it is SO nice to have you as a resource - it's one of the big reasons i decided to take on this whole project myself. so thanks :) your favorite doggie officer vest program will get a nice check from me when this is all over!

lisa

Hi toadangel,
Can you please tell me what type of tub you are using in the photo with the gray and white bathroom remodel? Is it a corner tub? Looks interesting. Thanks.

rock - that's bill's picture, showing me his shower curb work

rockrisley-- it IS a corner tub:

did my leak test yesterday, sort of. we don't have the pipes installed yet to the shower drain, so we just filled it up with enough water to go slightly over the bottom edge of the pan. but it didn't leak! i plan to add some more tonight but not much more - i only have a 13 gallon trash can to catch it all when we're done :) but it feels good to see my work holding up as it should

schluter eke is in at HD so we're getting closer to tiling!

lisa

bill - i have a question about grout. i'm doing bright white tile on the floor & most of the shower & tub and think bright white grout would look best. but of course i'm worried about the dirty factor.

i read where you said

"so the Aquamix colorant is actually better as a sealer than sealer?

In the words of my highly intelligent and extremely articulate father,

yup. "

so i was considering using this, but i'm not sure how it would fit in with the need to keep the grout breathable.

any thoughts?
lisa

Quite honestly, if it were up to me, every job I do would be just straight cement and sand for grout, and then coated with the colorant of choice. It's that good. The only problem is that its application is very time consuming, and would jack the price of installation WAY up. Other than that, though, You couldn't ask for a better product.

thanks bill - i may try that on my shower floor & see how it goes.

i have a few questions...

1. i'll be using 2" tiles on the shower floor - how wide should my grout be to add enough traction?

i'm planning to do as small a grout line as possible on the walls with my 4" tile - it says a minimum of 1/16 so i'm going to see how that looks.

2. since my walls are a bit bumpy from my first kerdi experience, do you have any tips on how to smooth them out ahead of tiling, or how to make sure i get an even depth while tiling?

3. i'll be doing the room floor with ditra & 12" ceramic tiles. it will be on top of a wood subfloor. i'm planning to use versabond between the subfloor & the ditra. what should i use between the ditra & the tile? my friend said he'd use flexbond but he hasn't used ditra before so we're not sure if that would have difficulty curing/drying under 12" tiles

4. my friend thinks that the one layer of subfloor i have now will be enough for the floor tile. i trust him, but i wonder - what happens later when someone wants to rip up my tile & put down something new? will they have to rip out the whole subfloor? should we put down another layer of something for that purpose?

thanks
lisa

1) Most 2x2's come on sheets, so your grout joint is already predetermined. You have no choice in the matter.

2) Use a heavier notched trowel. That way, when you run into humps in the wall, you can scrape a little thinset where needed.

3) You're right about the Flexbond on top of the Ditra. If it were me, I'd be using one of three thinsets, depending on what's available. All three are unmodified, and the only difference between the thinset on top and the thinset underneath would be that underneath, it would be mixed with a latex additive and above, it would be mixed with water. Those combinations are as follows:

Laticrete's 317 thinset with their 333 additive

Mapei's kerabond thinset mixed with their Keralastic additive

Hydroment's Tilemate thinset mixed with their Flexalastic additive

(and then any one of the three mixed with plain water for setting the tile onto the Ditra)

4) your friend is right. So long as your subfloor is 3/4", you can go right over it with the Ditra. When the floor gets replaced, it would be a simple matter of pulling up the Ditra, and then grinding the thinset down to bare plywood.

got my tile!! well, most of it, the glass is still on its way, but at least i can lay everything out. i discovered, though, that cutting tile is not something i'm skilled at... i tried nippers and they snapped too many little stray pieces off, a score/snap thing that didn't work because i'm cutting off too small of a piece to get any leverage on so the tile snapped in half, & i looked at my friend's wetsaw and decided that a trip to the ER was not what i needed today :) we all need to know our limits. this was mine. so i'm going to measure everything out & my friend is going to cut them for me later this week.

we picked up my vanity this weekend, only to get it home and, seeing it in my house somehow made me instantly realize what i should have seen all along - my sink plumbing is a bit offset and it will butt right into the vanity drawers :( akkkkk! at least we can just return it... but grrrr i'm mad at myself for not seeing that.

my friend is taking 2 weeks off around the daytona 500 so he can go down there & catch the race, and we're going to try to do a big push while he's in town on vacation to get this done. or at least past the point where i need his help so much.

i got the plumbing set up for the shower drain - just was too afraid to glue it up myself without him checking it. but he gave it the ok this weekend, so i'm going to glue all but the pieces that connect to something existing, so in case i do mess something up, at least it's just a matter of buying more pipe... we don't have to deal with trying to fix something that's attached to a much bigger deal, like my kerdi drain - i would cry if that got messed up

i checked out toilets that other day, since i'd love to have an ADA height one, but at this point i don't think i can fit them into my budget. though if i end up with a lower cost vanity, who knows :) i think i'd go with the toto drake if i can...

plodding forward...

lisa

hey bill - i've reached a point where i'm laying out my wall tiles and am not sure how to handle the outside corner where my shower ends.

i found this on another post... you said

"With reference to the corner beads, you can leave them or take them out. As a pro, I prefer to take them out and form my own corners with the tile. However, most DIYers will prefer to have the corner beads, so as to have a sharp edge to tile to. The thing I don't like about them is that they're very rarely plumb. I guess the short answer would be it's up to you."

right now the curb is flush with the corner, but when we add drywall to that wall we will have the 1/2" edge that goes past the curb.

do you suggest that i manipulate things so the bullnose hits that new edge of the adjoining drywall? or do you have other suggestions?

sorry for the awful pics - i still have to find a new camera

thanks,
lisa

also, is it ok to use the "built in" spacers/bumps on the sides of each tile, or do i need to use actual spacers?

Hi Lisa-- What you might do is thinset a piece of 1/2" cement board to the outside of your curb. Kinda unorthodox, but it would bring it flush with the rest of the wall.

As for using the lugs on the sides of the tiles, that's most likely what they're there for, if this is a wall tile.

thanks bill - i talked with my friend about it too and he said he thinks we should use a zip strip/L bead over the end of the to-be-added drywall and put the bullnose just next to that, then paint the zip strip. he said he's done zip strips a lot, so i think it's probably a safe route.

i finally found kerabond at a daltile shop... but yikes - the price of that keralastic is steep! $33/jug. aside from that, i am concerned about being able to do things in small batches like i am. with my versabond, that's been easy since it is all pre-mixed as a powder so i just scoop out as much as i need and add water. but trying to measure out just the right amount of kerabond and keralastic makes me nervous... when you try to do food recipes that way they never seem to come out right.

do you think it would be ok to use the versabond under the ditra and kerabond without the additive on top?

If this is over plywood, I'd rather use the K/K, although some pros WILL use Versabond. When you mix it, just make sure you mix it extremely loose-- I mean almost like water.

ok - why don't you like versabond? do you think i should reconsider using it on my shower? i'm planning to start that tonight.

and when you say make the K/K very loose over the plywood/under the ditra, you mean by adding more keralastic, right? not any water? maybe i could do that since it would be based on consistency rather than actual measurements.

thanks

ok - why don't you like versabond?

Versabond's a good product, but for over plywood, the only thing I'll trust is an unmodified mixed with a liquid additve. There's a much much greater latex content, which means a much stronger bond, and over plywood, you need that. As for in the shower, the versabond should be fine.

when you say make the K/K very loose over the plywood/under the ditra, you mean by adding more keralastic, right?

Correct.

thanks Bill! I'll plan on doing that.

Wow, Lisa!

Great job.

Barbara

bill, what material is that tub deck for that corner tub?

Blue Pearl granite tile.

thanks, Barbara - nice to have the support :)

last night i tried tiling the floor & the floor:wall transitions. my poor doggy had a rough time - she gets spooked by my cursing, and i lit up enough to send her out in the freezing night to huddle in the corner of our fenced yard hoping i wouldn't take out my rath on her. poor girl. as soon as i realized it, i called her in and started singing instead of cursing... i swear i sounded like a sick psycho killer singing "Summer's good" as i was biting back my frustration.

I bought schluter's dilex eke product for the transitions, and it seems to be a great product, but unfortunately i didn't know to take the time to make sure my 90 degree angles stayed sharp when i put the kerdi on. the kerdi is nice & stuck, but i didn't press my putty knife sharply into each corner/edge so they are slightly rounded with kerdi. the dilex is not at all forgiving when it comes to that, at least not the eke version. the side walls seem to be ok - i will just need to add a bit more thinset when i put the actual tiles on the wall... but the back wall is so rounded that i had to bend the edges of the dilex just to get it to kind of behave.

i'm going to stick with it for the floor:wall transitions, but am ditching it for the wall:wall in favor of caulk.

i did get some floor tile down, and it feels smooth so that's good. i didn't notice until it was too late, though, that one of the sheets (2x2 mosaic) has slightly different grout lines than the other two, so the tiles don't all line up. frustrating. it was already in place and i didn't want to cut the glue that connects the tiles because of the risk of cutting the kerdi underneath it. and it had taken me so long to mess with the dilex that i was afraid if i pulled the tiles out, cut them, and re-placed them with spacers that the thinset may be too hardened... so i left them as is. the sheets line up where the next rows need to be placed... i'll just have to live with slightly off grout lines in one corner.

not sure how i'm going to handle the rest of the tiling... i'm really feeling doubtful that i can effectively deal with the "lumpiness" of the 2 walls that were my first kerdi attempts. i told my friend how bill explained how to use a longer trowel & let the "dips" fill in so the tiling surface is even, and he said that made total sense to him, but i think it would take too much finesse & intuition for me to be able to do it cleanly. i would really hate to have a crooked tiled wall. so i may contract it out, or beg my friend to come over for an extra day. he said he enjoys the creative side of tiling & seeing the finished product (he went to art school so he's got the bug a bit) so maybe i can lean on that :)

know any good tile guys on Ohio, Bill? :)

lisa

Matter of fact.... Where in Ohio? Shoot me an email.

been a while since my last update... my friend took some time off and helped plow through some of the framing types of things we needed done. he's now off to enjoy the daytona 500 so i am on my own for the next week or so.

i did manage to put together the shower drain plumbing myself, which was quite an accomplishment. i even glued the pipes together - and no leaks! :)

i also routed my hvac vent from the floor in the former laundry room to a new small wall between the tub & shower. very rewarding to see things come together & actually work :)

we now have the tub deck framed in and cbu attached everywhere it needs to be. i put redgard on half of it so far. it is a strange product - not what i had expected. it is definitely easier for me to deal with than thinset! but you have to be careful about keeping the thickness even across the wall. otherwise you may have pin holes or bumps. i used a v-notched trowel & let it dry for 5-10 minutes per section & then evened out the ridges with a small spackle knife. it feels weird too, like rubbery, and we didn't expect it to be so thick once it dried. but the coverage matched what the container said, so i think it's fine.

we also got most of our soffit framed to cover up the places where the ceiling didn't used to be exposed (like where the rooms used to be divided with a wall & where the flue used to have a boatload of empty unnecessary space around it). it ended up being dropped about a foot over the entire tub area, which i think will look nice & define the space, rather than looking like we were trying to patch things together.

after reading a recent post about painting *before* tiling, i am trying to nail down my dark blue color for my walls. i am also considering using that same dark blue on the underside of the soffit, that has turned into a flat ceiling of sorts over the tub. maybe put something reflective/glittery up there to reflect off the tub lights.

any ideas on that? my friend thinks it would make the tub area too dark... i will have a white painted apron, white subway tiles on the deck & 3 feet up the wall around the tub. i want the tub to be a sanctuary area. it will be straight ahead as you walk into the bathroom.

here are a couple of pics, too

lisa

tub faucet plumbing & the redgard

my new hvac vent!

I was wondering how you were doing. Thanks for the update. For the tub soffit, what about putting a light up there to brighten against a dark ceiling?

thanks weedy - nice to have support :)

it is a perfect opportunity to put lighting up there, but i decided against it since there will be a lot of light in the room already & i don't want anything shining down when i'm in the tub that will bother my eyes.

i got an idea to maybe put something like a white framed mirror or some pictures on the longer wall to break up the blue, & then the ceiling won't get noticed so much - the mirror or pictures will.

i'll keep you posted :)

my friend showed me hands-on how to tile, though of course when he did it none of the things that happen to me happened to him! i tried to make things happen - like where your trowel doesn't leave a completely full row of thinset... he said that's most likely due to either the angle i'm holding the trowel or junk getting in my thinset or the thinset getting too hardened. all a definite possibility for me :)

i'm leaving the shower for him, since it's got challenges beyond my comfort level, but i'm going to try to do some around the tub. hopefully i can keep my mouth in check and not scare my dog with my cursing :)

lisa

hey bill - hope you see this - i finished my redgard today and was planning to use kerdi band in the inside corners since there are slight gaps between the cbu sheets. but i suddenly thought - hmmm... two membranes on top of each other? wonder if this is the right thing to do.

i know you can put kerdi on kerdi/ditra, but what about redgard?

what do you recommend?

i also have a couple tubes of kerdi fix - would that be better? use it like a caulk?

or i guess i could smoosh the redgard in there, but i want to try to keep straight corners & the redgard seems a bit too loose for that.

this is for the tub deck/surround which will get slightly wet with bubbling/splashing & cleaning, but no showering.

thanks,
lisa

Lets just say neither Schluter nor Custom will warranty the installation!! LOL That said, though, I don't think there's a problem there.

:) hey - as long as you say it works, i'm comfortable with that

thanks bill

my friend is back from the daytona 500 and back to work on my bathroom, so long as the weather cooperates!

today he got the drywall up & trimmed the edge of the tub deck so the toilet has a bit more room. we're planning to use wood, likely beadboard painted with outdoor paint, for the apron, overlapped on top with the bullnose tile on top of the deck.

any advice to make getting the tub in easier? it's acrylic & not terribly heavy, but neither of us have done a deck tub before & i'm a bit nervous about getting it in without destroying anything in the process.

now it's a real room, though :) coming along...

tub soffit

soffit by shower where the 2 rooms used to be divided

new entryway - interior garage door is beyond & next to the front door

MAN!! ALL KINDS of ins and outs!! I'm glad I'm not tiling THAT bathroom top to bottom!!

LOL :) i have definitely tried to gain every square inch i could out of this room!

i wasn't going to make that shelf on the tub deck, since it would have been easier to just square the wall & tub deck off, but my friend did it like it is when i was at work. i like it a lot, especially with such a small edge around the tub.

my friend wanted to leave the tub soffit even more irregular - there would have been 3 or 4 different heights, but I talked him into doing it this way. he's an artist (oil paints) & has a different perspective on things.

i think it'll have character with these ins & outs - not just another suburban bathroom. hope so anyway :)

There ya go-- a new contemporary designer in the making!! :-)

The ins and outs look great....until you realize you've got to tape/mud/sand them all. Uggghhh!!!

Congrats on your progress!

That's what I was thinking!! Somebody gonna make a KILLIN on corner beads!! LMAO

haha - you guys crack me up. my friend & his electrician friend were here today & i kept telling them what you guys were chiming in with - they thought it was funny :)

my friend says he enjoys doing this type of drywall work because he can step back & enjoy the quality of his work - i love the sound of that :)

today we got the corner bead on, inside corners taped, and 2 coats of mud on (first was durabond, 2nd regular mud).

also got the interior garage door swapped out so it opens the correct way now that that wall has been swallowed up by the bathroom.

the electrician installed a bunch of stuff - 2 recessed shower lights, fan, heat lamp, bunch of switches & outlets.

i am really disappointed with the broan heat lamp. it isn't very hot & the cover doesn't fit snugly to the ceiling. not sure what i'm going to do about it yet...

here are a few pics

new fan & heat lamp

new 4-gang done very nicely

shower lights - rain head will go between them

my dog Summer who is gradually seeing the bathroom as something other than the "evil room that makes mommie curse" :)

You, your friend, and his electrician friend should be right proud of yourselves. That's coming along very nicely!!

hey Bill - have a question for you. i'm at work so i don't have pics, but if you want some, i can take them tonight.

when i kerdi'd the shower, i didn't know to keep the corners sharp, so they are a bit rounded. not a problem to tile, but my friend was readying the small better bench i'm using as a foot rest & said it will not fit square in the corner i would like it in because of the slightly rounded kerdi.

please offer any options you think may work...

i'm thinking we pretty much would have to cut the kerdi ~2 inches vertically & then patch with Kerdi band, making it sharp enough to install the bench, but without adding too much bulk. we may have to run the kerdiband along the length of the bench so it will fit flush with the wall the whole way...

do you have any ideas, or thoughts on that?

thanks,
lisa

p.s. i laid some tile last night in the tub surround area & only cursed once :) john said it will look fine once we grout it - there are some gaps but none worth yanking stuff out over. it is definitely harder than i had imagined, making cuts line up & overlapping bullnose, stuff like that.

hey bill - i forgot to thank you for your kind words from last week :) thanks

i think we figured this out... when i got home & started trying to figure it out with the things in front of me, i remembered that we can also mount the "bench" on top of the tile, which is what john is going to try. he's confident that he can get the tile square, and then he will drill the holes through the tile & kerdi once they are set.

i am nervous about him cutting through the tile, since it would be hard to get a broken tile off the kerdi safely, but he says he is confident he can do it and it would be extremely bad luck for a tile to break. i have to trust him and our luck :)

here is a quick pic of my tiling job on the tub surround... not perfect, but i'm pretty pleased, and john said he can make it look fine with grout. i left the bullnose off the edges so i can tile once he's done with his drywall perfecting, and i decided at the last minute to put a blue tile on the small wall, after my thinset had been used up, so i just popped one of the white tiles off & that's the hole you see.

i'm just so happy to see tile finally - it's all been in boxes & in my head :) he's finally going "Oh! now i see what you meant by scattering the glass tiles around... now i see how the blue paint will highlight those..." I've seen it all along, but in my head! glad it's turning out like it is in my head.

lisa

That can be done. The tile you're using has a pretty soft bisque, but personally I think you'd be better off to cut and do the repair with the Kerdi-band. You can then tile up to where the bench will be, set the bench on top of the tile's edge, mount it to the wall, waterproof the screwholes, fill it, tile it, and move on. It'd be a much stronger installation. The tile's edge would be supporting the bench. The only thing the screws would be doing is holding it to the wall, whereas if your friend does it his way, they're taking the whole stress of any weight put on the bench, and over time, that'll loosen it up.

hey - i've started a "part II" posting since this is getting filled up with pics...

(of course i mis-spelled the title but at least i got my name right :)

go here

lisa