I have this dishwasher and love , love , love , love it . In fact , it is running right now . I alternate using the drawers - often twice a day usage .
Hubby installed it and the DDD ( double dish drawer ) has been working perfectly for two years .
I do frequently fine tune the settings and use most of the many choices . Seems to make a big difference to have the correct water temp . , water pressure , hardness set properly , etc .
On the other hand - had a friend who fought with her earlier F&P model and finally ripped it out and left it on the curb . Replaced it with some cheapy American model and is very happy .
I think it is installation issues . When she had the F&P ripped out and a new diswasher installed , all the dirty dishes and clogged drains went away . Guess I got lucky !

gatormomx2 - what's your secret to loading it?

Melisande, you can't really blame an incompetent serviceman on F&P as a company. I worked as a service tech for a Whirlpool dealer many years ago. By and large, local service companies/dealers are independent agents who may attend factory training classes, subscribe to technical literature, and purchase parts wholesale ... but the appliance manufacturer doesn't typically have a substantial degree of control over them. For example, a friend of mine moved here some years ago from another town in the county. He had a GE Omni 5 oven (a combination microwave-toast-broil-bake-microbake unit) that he had bought in his hometown. The GE dealer here (at that time, they've been out-of-business for years now ... wonder why?) refused to service it for reason that he didn't buy it from them. He called GE to complain, they said "So sorry, we can't do anything about that."

Clearly not all service techs are competent. Last month I did a repair on a friend's Whirlpool washer. They knew it wasn't working quite right but of course had no experience in diagnosing/fixing the problem. A local "professional" tech looked at it twice in the past, claimed he couldn't figure out what was causing the problem. I knew immediately what was the problem, a very common situation, easy and inexpensive repair, and couldn't imagine why the serviceman didn't fix it properly. I ordered the part, did the fix, and impressed my ex boss and his wife. :-)

Yes, we were told to rotate drawers, but we're afraid to. We know the top drawer is leaking but every other time we use the bottom drawer, it shows an F1 malfunction and shuts the whole unit down.

I know now that I should have called a further-away, much-more-knowledgeable repair service, but I used the one F and P sent me when it was under warrantee. I think if I had insisted (I did call New Zealand a few times for help) they would have sent a further-away technician - at least in the beginning.

Take a look around at dishwasher-review.com and you'll see that the word "nightmare" shows up a few times in relationship to the DD601's and 602's. The 603's are supposed to be better - so someone ordering one today should not lose sleep over my experience. But of course, it does make me very shy of cool-looking dishdrawers.

We are happy when it works, we never even think about how little it holds and I think twice about using any pot or pan that can't fit inside the working drawer, if I have energy to wash up after cooking - I use it, but I sure don't ever count on the dishwasher. It's useless for entertaining, really, because only the one drawer works. Our problems started (said the repairman) because we were consistently using both drawers at once.

Alternate them for sure and save dual usage for a day when you feel really lucky.

Again with the flaky repairman. ;-) There's no need to fear using both drawers at the same time on a dual-drawer unit. The mechanisms are separate and designed to be run both separately and concurrently as needed. I've done it any number of times, haven't had a problem in 6+ years. Am I doing something differently than other folks? I can't answer that without observing first-hand what's happening over at your place.

Sure, there are "nightmare" reports on DishDrawers ... same as there are on any other brand/model. KitchenAid, Miele, Bosch, Asko, Whirlpool, Maytag ... all of them. Major appliances are subject to a huge range of environmental, installation, and user-operation conditions. No one appliance fits everyone's needs.

We've had our two dishdrawers for 2 years. Love them! No kids here, we are retired. These drawers really fit the way we live! They have been a joy compared to the pieces of junk Bosch dishwashers we had--two in 1.5 years.

I wonder F&P improved its design a few years ago. Like other posters who love their dish drawers, I bought mine two years ago and love, love , love them. I mostly use the top drawer and reserve the bottom one for large items, which means it may go a week or two without use. If longer, the water may dry up and compromise the seal. Even leaving it a few weeks, I've never noticed an odor and I have a very sensitive nose.

They did improve their design - from everything I read, the 603 models have fewer problems.

But it isn't just a case, for us, of "every dish manufacturer has an occasional bad machine," it was poor service. We have had two bad machines and two bad floods with property damage, and lesser floods that did no damage because our floors weren't in. Most of this occurred while it was still under warrantee.

It is a beauty, though. That's a great picture of it. I'm sitting looking at mine right now (it suits our kitchen so well). Sigh.

prill- I load the drawers in no special way that I know .
I often will remove the utensil basket to make room for large pots and pans .
I remove racks or reconfigure them to fit the dishes packed in there - one of the reasons I like the F&P design .
I do not use the small top racks for much other than long spoons or ladles or small glass bowls .
I do try to make sure that nothing falls down to interfere with the water distribution .
I use very fresh powdered dishwasher detergent .
I use a rinse aid .
I clean the screen/trap frequently .
If I do find a dirty dish , it is because I blocked the water jets with something way too big to go in there in the first place .
Any problems I have had are due to user error and not the machine's fault .
What problems have you had ?

I think it's just a learning curve of how to load. Unlike most dishwasher that have 2 shelves with a wash arm underneath each, the drawer only has one. So if you tend to pile things, the ones on top don't really get clean. I also find that cups I put on the shelves don't always get clean because something has probably blocked the spray arm. Now I load it in a more single layer fashion.

I do use rinse aid
I do used powered dish detergent
I try to be sure I use the bottom drawer at least once a week, if not more.

I'm getting there...

These four pics are "staged" loads:

These are "real" loads:

Wow - I love the pics, especially the "real" loads.

I've had my F&P dish drawers for about 6 years. I love them! We are building, and I plan on putting them in the new house, too! I'm used to diong the BIG pots & pans by hand, and everything else comes out fine.

dadoes, I think you convinced me. Your pic of real loads looks similar to what I'll produce.

I really find that when you pile things, or put them on the shelves that they don't get that clean. I think that one wash arm just doesn't reach that stuff. Great pictures. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

We are new to the dish drawers and are not loving them so far.

Our top drawer does not clean well. The bottom drawer is ok. Right now we're not even bothering using the top drawer as nothing gets properly clean.

Also none of our dinner plates fit in either drawer. We bought new smaller ones and they don't fit either. Now we just bought some cheapo plain white plates we found which are the only ones which fit.

We did consider the 'tall' model, but I don't like how off the symetery looks to my eye. It's already off on the normal model.

All in all I'm really disappointed so far. Emailed our appliance seller on Friday asking for help as I will be SO MAD if we have bought an expensive dishwasher which only half works.

I guess we should have gone with the Miele. Ugh.

I'd be curious to see what your appliance person has to say. There really is a learning curve on loading to get your dishes clean. I got mine in August and I'm just getting it. But they really don't clean as well and easily as a regular dishwasher, at least in my experience. I do have the tall tub. I had heard that alot of plates don't fit, so I took my plate with me when I picked mine out to be sure it would go in.

I have f&p for a couple of years. I would not buy it again because it doesn't do heavy cleaning of pots. I have had one major repair for ghost locking. It still locks every once in a while without completing a cycle but I no longer need to cut the breaker to get it to open.

It's kinda like having a pet instead of an appliance. It needs ongoing care and attention.

Its testy about rinse agent - it really needs it. If you feel its stopped cleaning, check the rinse agent. If you have sandy stuff in the bottom of the tub, you're using too much detergent.

The plastic thing complaint is all true. Something is a little outta wack with the tine spacing.

Some of the others have mitigations that work for me:

* You have to manually clean the filter and even then, the drawers get downright rank smelling.

Scrape dishes well PLUS you have to clean it out frequently. Either get some citric acid from the chemistry store and put in a little once a month and run an empty cycle or use a single serving drink powder that contains citric acid. Some oxygen bleach when it was really bletchy. I've never been brave enough to do both at the same time.

Once, we had to clean the gasket on the top lid. After that, we started making sure there was no food or oil on the rim before closing.

* I found myself only using one drawer the majority of the time, because it was at a more convenient height. But one drawer isn't a large enough capacity.

True, but if you have two, you have to use that bottom one periodically. We run at least a load a week through - generally pots.

I'm pretty convinced the thing gets clogged up with mold otherwise. If you got the mold thing, you might need to wash it all out and perhaps replace the drain lines.

Water in the lower tub after the top tub runs.

We found that to be caused by the two-fer drain rubbery thing on the sink side - turn it so both drains are level horizontally. If the drains are stacked vertically, at least some of the time, when the top drawer pumps out, it ends up using enough force to send the water back up the second hose - even with a high loop.
Bailing out bottom tub.

Well, you don't have to. For either tub, if you turn on a cycle, the first thing it does is bail out the tub. You hear the drawer lock and the tub being pumped out and then it starts the fill. Just cancel the cycle after you hear the pump out.

I feel like an idiot.

We had the tech all set to come out today to try and fix the top dish drawer.

My husband opens it, fishes around in the bottom for a while and comes up with a small plastic lid which must have fallen down there during the very first load ever and was why the spinny thing at the bottom wasn't working.

So we try it for another load and it seems to work fine.

I ran it again this morning and again it doesn't clean well. Why? Because the end of a spatula fell below the grid blocking the spinny thing.

So now I have to try it AGAIN to make sure that it's working ok.

So it's probably more user error than anything else. On the other hand I do not recall having to be so careful with how I placed things with any other dishwasher. I now don't know how to put in a spatula so I can be certain the same thing won't happen again. It's a bit frustrating to be honest.

So please if you're reading this thread considering the unit, please disregard my comments above about it not cleaning well. But do bear in mind that the plate size is an issue, as is things falling below the grid and blocking the spinny arm thing. I've never had a problem with that in years of dishwasher use, but have now had trouble with it twice in a week.

Does anyone have any tips on how to load those long, thin items which won't fit in the fork rack, but can fall down and block the spinny thing??

that's really interesting... I found the same thing recently. Something blocking the wash arm. You have to be very careful that a small bowl or other item doesn't go down below the rack and interfere with the wash arm. BUT, I don't understand why this dishwasher doesn't have a blocked wash arm error code????? I've never had one that doesn't.

My repairman did tell me when installing mine that most problems with this dishwasher are user errors. SO BE AWARE OF THE LEARNING CURVE.

prill, I've never had a dishwasher that did notify of a blocked arm. There are some that do, but that requires a sensing mechanism of some ilk on the arm's rotational hub for the machine to know that it's not turning.

A few loading ideas:

Thanks - I am going to try that second one next - I was playing with it earlier (haven't run it yet).

I do know I didn't load it with the spatula hanging down, so it must have moved. Hopefully it will stay put on that upper rack.

I do appreciate you taking the time to give me some picture examples - very helpful! Phew, who knew I would need lessons in loading a dishwasher. It's quite funny if you think about it! : )

Let's hope the user error ends here!!

I do have another comment: Apparently the dishdrawers don't like the dishwasher tabs, or liquid detergent. So you have to use powder. I must be a clutz, but I find it difficult to pour in without spilling. I'm getting the hang of it, but there are dire warnings in the user guide of all the horrifying things that can go wrong if you spill the jet dry or detergent, so I find it quite traumatic putting the cleaner in. I'm so used to just popping in a tab on a flat surface, so this is another thing to bear in mind, but probably not a deal breaker.

Just tryin gto put down all my thoughts for prospective purchasers!

I'll probably update again in a month or so.

Thanks again!

Hang in there Hoboken. I have spilled gobs of rinse aid and detergent and not noticed any terrible malfunctions yet. :)

Someone once recommended using a plastic ketchup squeeze bottle (the kind you find at really sketchy barbecue places or zoo cafeterias) to get the powder in the hole which is definitely tricky. I still haven't located one, and I've been kinda sort of looking for years. So I keep spilling.

I've been a delighted F&P DD owner for the past 7+ years. Liked them so much in my last house, I put them in this house when I moved in and remodeled the kitchen 4 years ago.

It's really important to use powdered detergent (I use Cascade), AND to use a small amount....following the instructions in the F&P manual. I use an iced teaspoon (with its very long handle) and measure out the scant 1 teaspoon for each of the cups, and have never had trouble ensuring the powder goes only into the detergent cups. Before this, I used a plastic spoon.

This is a wonderful appliance, but we must be smarter than the equipment....and that takes attention to detail, and reading the operators' manual. Once you learn what you need to do, I promise it will become automatic and no-fuss for you.

I believe it was me who recommended the condiment bottle workaround for detergent. Check at dollar stores and such. Note that the spout likely will need to be snipped a little for a larger opening to pour better, and even then large granules may tend to get stuck, requiring some shaking/squeezing of the bottle.

This has turned out to be a very informative and helpful thread. I think that every time my dishes weren't that clean, the wash arm was probably blocked by something. I'm liking my dish drawers more and more! Thanks everyone.

This thread has been so helpful as I'm planning to order both a double tall dishdrawer and a single tall drawer. I'm reading that you must use powder detergent, but I'm wondering if you can use generic/store brands or if you need to use Cascade to clean well.

Any enzyme powder works fine. I've been using Wal-Mart's Great Value powder for years. A formula with phosphates is best ... but that's unfortunately getting difficult to find in some areas due to phosphate bans.

I use a sugar dispenser to fill my soap slots in my dish drawers. My sugar dispenser is similar to this one. I fill it with a funnel and it works great. I use a wal-mart brand of powdered soap. It dispenses into the soap slots without spilling. I put 2 tsp into the main wash and 1 tsp into the pre-wash as per the instructions.

I am surprised to read so many negative comments about this dishwasher- only because I have no complaints at all about mine .
I do not rinse dirty dishes first and usually load very dirty pot and pans .
I have hard well water - not the nice city water or conditioned water .
I ran out of powdered detergent and resorted to tabs . They worked fine . Put them in the utensil basket and voila !
I load the long handled tools last - in the top side flip down racks as in photo #2 . No problems and the lower plates or pans keep the long handles in place .
I rarely remember to clean out the bottom drain sieve thingy .
And , I found the scoop from powdered laundry soap works really well for loading dishwasher powder . Tide or Biz have a green one that has perfect corners for filling those tiny cups on the drawers . F&P should include 2 cups with their dishwashers .
Are there predominately lousy F&P dishwashers out there ? Did I just get really , really lucky and by accident found a great machine to purchase ?

Update: Things are going better with the drawers. Cleaning on the whole seems to be very good, even on dirty, dried on plates and bowls.

I still have occassions when a particular bowl or glass does not get as clean, but I can almost always spot what I've done wrong in loading it to cause the problem.

The cons are that the plate size limitations still annoy me, but if you can deal with the lack of symemtry on the 'tall' model, that would help that issue.

I have got used to the powder and putting it into the little powder holder - not a problem after my initital concerns about spillage. I think I've got the knack of it.

I LOVE that I can run one of the drawers at a time and still be taking clean stuff out of one while at the same time putting dirty bits and pieces in the other.

So all in all, I would give this unit a thumbs up, and now I am used to it, I might well consider it again in the future. There is a definite learning curve though! : )

Thanks for suggesting the sugar dispenser from Crate and Barrel. It works perfect!

mr.timewise--you are most welcome :-)

I am not in the market for DD. For me, it does not suit my needs. Many people have stated that they love being able to run just 1 drawer. How is that much different from doing the 1/2 load on regular dishwasher? My current DW lets you adjust the top rack so that dinner plates fit on the top rack. Then you can just do 1/2 load.

For me, one of the greatest asset of having the DW is being able to fit large stuff in it. For example, I wash my blower hood baffle filter in the DW. I can't imagine hand washing that greasy baffle filter... Can you fit that in the DD? How will you fit large cookie sheets and big pots and pans in the DD?

Just curious....

My Bosch can run the top rack only, but it's not like it takes less time than a regular load. I can see how nice it would be to start a quicky load (like just glasses) and then come back and do a big, dirty load when you have time.

I'd love to hear more feedback - I'd considered them in the past, but was turned off by the negatives. However, now we're going to remodel and I'm wondering if drawers could solve a problem I'm anticipating (namely, tripping over the open dishwasher as you come around the corner into the kitchen).

Glad to hear they seem to be getting better, though.

kaismom,

I'm not a DD owner--yet (planning on them in my future kitchen remodel). Re: the 1/2 load vs DD's. One of the things that really appeals to me is being able to have one drawer washing and still have the ability to be loading dirty dishes. Invariably, as soon as the DW starts running, more dirty dishes start accruing in our sink, so I look forward to being able to continuously have a DW available to load into.

I now have one of the Crate & Barrel sugar dispensers. It's perfect for filling the DD detergent cups! The integral measuring gizmo is wonderfully convenient and the large-diameter spout doesn't clog with granules as may happen with a mustard/ketchup squirt bottle. The only glitch I have now is finding something with which to seal the spout between uses to avoid moisture, keep the detergent fresh.

When replacing a dw maybe 10 or more years ago, it was love at first sight with this cute little drawer that chirped when I opened it. It was miserable requiring several repairs - as history shows. I told people over and over again not to buy it. Well a couple of years in a new house with a standard dw, I really missed not bending over so replaced it with the FP. It's a definite love hate relationship, and now starting over in a fixer upper the FP is top on m list. That being said is Ebay a bad idea for buying one?

I'm really happy with mine now that I realize that most of my issues were probably user error on my part. Also, you're in to a whole new generation than you were 10 years ago. I would bet these are much better than they were then. I love the 2 drawer method and not bending over to load. What a bonus. Everyone who sees it at my house loves it.

I wouldn't purchase on ebay. Who would back it up if there's a problem? or service it? I bet you can find just as good a deal at a retail store near you... and check for rebates. I found 2 when I purchased mine.

I realize I can't "blame" anyone for anything - the world is imperfect.

However, it is F and P who chose and trained this "technician" (since I last posted, I've been in touch with our local BBB to see if I'm the only person who has had trouble with this company - I am not).

But - without blaming anyone - surely it makes sense to choose a brand where local service has something better than a D rating on the BBB, yes?

Sears, for example, has an A rating (when we had one incident of poor service/damage down by a Sears service rep - guess what? They REPLACED our appliance - that's a WOW compared to F and P).

After I last posted, I did try one more run at communicating directly with F and P (I got canned responses from beginning to end, not one single word of text directed specifically at my situation).

I'm here today because we really must have an actual dishwasher (we have one working - but leaking - drawer, which is how it's been for 2 years).

Better than nothing, not too loud - but not quiet- and gets the dishes clean. Just can't use the bottom drawer and have to scoop the water out of it, as we've been doing for 2 years.

I keep hearing the newer ones are better, though - and have no reason to doubt people's experience with them.

I have two dishwashers: F & P dishdrawers and a Miele. Both are five years old. The Miele is simply better. It cleans everything beautifully -- from pots and pans to plastic and crystal. Every load finishes dry and shiny. Its size allows greater loading versatility and it has a top solo function for smaller loads.

The dish drawers clean, but not as well as the Miele. Plastic is spotted, dishes don't sparkle and there is the occasional crud left on utensils. The top dish drawer is convenient but the bottom is less reachable than the lower shelf of the Miele. The drawers collect water, have needed more frequent repair and are NOISY.

I don't want to have to wash dishes before the dishwasher washes them! With the DD, I have to rinse my dishes. With the Miele, I don't -- a quick scraping is enough. In fact, I'm told that leaving some bits of food on the plates is helpful -- they make good abrasives. The Miele uses very little detergent, too; its cleaning power comes from heat and water force, evidently. Last but not least, the silverware tray, which struck me as weird and fussy, is incredibly useful. Every utensil sparkles, unloading is a breeze and you can clean silver and stainless in the same load without ruining the silver.

I understand Melisande's frustration with repair people. I had trouble with my FP dryer and a FP technician charged me $110 to tell me that though he didn't know what was wrong with it, it would probably cost $300 to fix it. F&P first said it wouldn't help 'cuz my machine was out of warranty. I called a second time, got someone else and asked about whether it was really F & P's policy to litter landfills with four year old machines. She authorized the repair and got a repair man from a local dealer to do the work. He wouldn't have done the work ordinarily because I hadn't bought the machine from his store. He's been here four times and I haven't been billed. F&P deserves credit for standing by that product. It's still not perfect, but they've tried.

I'm not understanding what's the problem involved for the people who say they must prerinse with their DishDrawers. I routinely load items such as this dish from a cherry cobbler. Are you folks perhaps not using an enzyme detergent, or trying to get by with only the Fast or Fast Eco cycle?

Yes, I will say that F & P did send out the repair guy a lot of times - for free. Since the trouble started before it was out of warranty, we finally got them to agree to pay for the calls that were past the 2 year mark (or whatever it was). We did pay for parts - after the 2 years, maybe $300 into it for parts, and one labor call before he started coming over for free.

But the time off work, the time spent waiting, the sheer number of calls, and the two repairs that resulted in flood damage and a chipped granite countertop, after which both the repair guy and ourselves agreed he had no idea how to fix the thing...was too much.

Obviously, this would vary from place to place.

BTW, the Kenmore we bought last week arrived with water dripping out of it (about two liters), wet insulation and water all over the outside panel. According to Sears they "test" the pump before they send them out the door, and the pump should have pumped *all* the water out (this one obviously failed its test - the warranty literature, etc., was drenched).

We decided to put the older Bosch into the butler's pantry and order an extra set of drawers to go where the dishwasher was in the main kitchen - we're giving up in a DW in the kitchen. The one flood (which ruined the brand new DH-installed floor - so much work) was enough, the parts on the Kenmore were so cheesy looking when we finally got it, it's a no-go (if we had linoleum in mind it would be different, but we're convinced we want wood in the kitchen, and we already have it purchased).

Nice photo Dadoes! My F&P would clean most of that, but it would leave a little crud in the corners and probably a film here and there. I use an enzyme detergent and the normal or heavy cleaning mode. Like I said, the DD clean dishes. They probably do as good a job as a number of machines. They just don't do it as well as the Miele. Plus, the noise difference is astonishing. If I'd never had a Miele, and they didn't retain so much water (ugh!) I'd be happy with the DD. But those a big ifs, I guess.

Melisande, good luck! FWIW, we have wood floors in our kitchen and we love 'em. They've stood up really well after five years, aren't as troublesome with water spills as I thought they'd be and are soft enough that breakage isn't as high as it is with ceramic or stone floors.

Clean, no residue.

Dadoes,

I'm a happy F-P DD user, and have been in 2 different houses, and I enjoy your F-P posts. I'm curious...I installed my current F&P DDs in 2005, and my drawers look like yours except they don't have the 2 coat-hook "thingies" that are showing in your photos. What's their purpose? Did they come with your DDs, or did you buy them separately. Other than that, my drawers look like yours.

Regarding starboard's comment about the water in her tubs, I've never had standing water in the DDs (other than that that has collected in the recessed strainer cup). I do scrape off the dishes, so rarely have to clean the strainer....but there is no water in the tub where I can see it...only in the cup. Not sure if that might mean something needs to be checked on her DDs or not.

Beth4,

Those are KitchenAid SureHold® clips that I bought separately. KA changed the clip design and the newer style doesn't fit the DD racks so well. I don't know if the old-style clips are still available.

Hi all. Any updates? And how noisy is noisy? Regular dishwasher noisy or worse? And is F&P the only DD option? It's mostly just one or two ppl in my household, so I was thinking a DD made sense. Appreciate everyone's insights.

Waterlmc - Kitchenaid, maytag and Kenmore also make the drawers. I've heard good things about KA drawers (they're stainless inside) and have a friend who loves her F&P drawers.

To clarify the comment above from Chris11895 ... Whirlpool manufactures a drawer design now that's different than F&P's design, and sells it under the KitchenAid, Maytag, and Kenmore brand labels.

I checked the cycle count on my unit last week. 519 cycles run on the upper drawer, 109 on the lower. That's average a load every 4 days for the past 7 years, and never any repairs on my DishDrawer.

Where do you see cycle counts?