"Posted by hvtech42 Have you considered replacing it with an AG range.... Of course, I'm sure you're super enthusiastic about buying another Wolf product after your experience with them." _____ Yes but I am not giving them another nickel. "Posted by Sahmmy I never understood the appeal of a dual fuel range.... The supposed superiority of an electric oven has been accepted as gospel via years of hard marketing and advertising." ____ I would agree that marketing often says "electric is better" but very few sales people know why this may or may not be. hvtech42 mentioned some differences and aside from the difference in gas(dry) and electric(moist) heat, these are features some find appealing in some electric ovens. -the performance of being able to direct the heat. It might be from the top for roasting but some ovens have many different modes -the boost of the third element when the oven is full decreasing the amount of tending and turning and switching -speed of fan(s) tailored to what you are cooking-lower speed and less drying for baking-higher speed and more browning for roasting -more control of the humidity-easier to keep added humidity in the oven cavity for bread baking and some other baking -less heat released in the kitchen -wider range of temperature available, some measure in 1-5 F precise increments - a more narrow range of temperature kept by the oven -self clean(present in more electric ovens than gas) -broiler might be wider and is often hotter than a regular gas broiler Admittedly, it is a learning curve and these things may mean more to those who do a lot of baking. benefits to gas ovens -simple controls and less to go wrong -dry heat good for roasting and the last half of baking for bread and cakes -might have an infrared broiler which is narrower but might be hotter "Posted by trevorlawson 1) Firstly if you leave your oven door open to long must expect to lose heat. " ___ Typically you will lose 50F each time you open the oven. Even if you only lose 25F, for me it is the cumulative loss when using the oven opening the door every 5 minutes. "2) if you do leave the door open would you not want the oven to recover to your desired cooking temp as soon as possible?." ____ Yes you would. Most ovens do kick on a more gentle preheat, usually the bake element as soon as the temperature falls below about 25F below the set temperature. The preheat only has to stay on to bring the temp up to the upper limit of the thermostat which is about 25F above the set temp. If you are losing heat and you have to wait until it drops 150F or more before the preheat comes on and the preheat is more intense, it is a problem for me. "I just tested this function on our 48" dual fuel unit and it took over 5 mins for the feature of rapid reheat to kick in. Can anyone think of a valid reason to leave an oven door open over 5 mins if you plan to use it again???????" Well I guess you will have to leave the door open for 5 minutes if you plan to bump the temperature up 50F, to meet the 150F threshold for the preheat to kick in. Either that or turn the temperature up by 150F and watch the temperature carefully and turn it back when it reaches the new setting. Again for me, it is not leaving the door open but the constant opening and closing I sometimes have to do. The oven can also cool off if you put something cold in the oven. Five minutes is a long time for the preheat not to come on with the door open. It takes even longer to come on when the door is closed most of the time but overall there is continuing loss of heat. "I will say the message about the moisture feature is a tough one swallow, having said that how many people put a dish of water in the oven when baking bread or roasting meats? why do you do this ?...Many recipes suggest this to increase moisture within a cavity for various reasons. While I am not saying its going to make a huge difference it does introduce a form of moisture into the cavity, if it was not beneficial why would it be recommended by many recipe developers for certain foods." ___ There are many things in cookbooks and even written by chefs that are not true. Adding moisture to prevent dryness in meat... Food Lab's Myths Steam is beneficial for some baking but Capital says this is not steam. Maybe it might be a benefit in keeping food from drying out when keeping warm or reheating. That is the only thing I can think of that would benefit from a small increase in humidity. It's been marketed all wrong! "I think we are missing a major point here from the OP...That being a Dual Fuel Capital open burner range costs less than the all gas BS Platinum which does not have.... Electric ovens, self cleaning ovens, rotisserie, 2 broilers, meat probes in each oven, Larger cavity oven, larger in oven broiler coverage, the small oven in the 48" range is far superior due to features, to mention just a few of the differences. And costs less than a Wolf DF with sealed burner range. ____ It has a given set of features, but there are many differences in the way electric ovens work and I think it is very important that cooks understand what the ovens will and will not do. I'm sure this range would be great for some but others might be better with another choice. There are times when the cheapest option is not the best value. Aside from the blue chipping enamel,here are going to be people that want all the features in the oven of a Wolf DF range and are very happy with sealed, capped burners. "In my experience people buy dual fuel ranges or wall ovens looking for better results in the ovens or they want the self cleaning feature. On the other hand some people buy open burners for better results on the range top forgoing the perceived benefits in the oven department. Capital now has an option which meets both criteria in one unit. At a price that beats the major competition that been BS and Wolf." ___ "Perceived benefits?" "Better results" "beats the competition" I look at that a little differently. I don't believe that the benefits of the choice of an electric oven are just "perceived". It is a much more complicated choice than simply getting "open" burners and an electric oven. I think there are all kinds of benefits in cooking appliances that have to be balanced to get what is "better results" for you. You have listed entirely different types of appliances as competition. Hopefully people would look at more than a cursory list of features and the price. People have all kinds of priorities and what one person sees as a benefit others see as a drawback. In the world of burners- -sealed vs open vs semi sealed-everybody has opinion what is easier to clean -capped vs uncapped -it is key to consider the pans you use -BTUS low and high-again it is key to consider what you cook -shape/configuration of the burner star vs ring vs multi ring vs dual stacked again consider size and type of cookware -configuration of cooktop -depth and spacing of burners, burners all the same or different oven -gas vs electric -simplicity vs being controlled by computer boards which may use a third element with the convection fan, direct the heat and make the fan speed variable. The big question is how it all works together -broiler-narrow gas infrared vs wider electric -self clean or not -rotisserie -size-How is the space usable? There are slightly more cubic feet in the CC oven but some might find the BS to be more usable in that it holds a full sheet. I don't think the CC does. It is key to look at the size of the racks rather than the cubic feet in the oven. People have to give weight to each option to come to a good fit. Other considerations would be level and availability of service. I have to say I am a little leery of new features like the gas burner in the back of the Platinum until they get worked out too.

Ktlri, Thanks for the follow-up as although the build is done, I haven't fully furnished the residence yet and had my professional shots done for our records and the community here. I'll admit - I had to go back over the thread and re-read to give the proper feedback but for the main range I ended up with a Zephyr 48" Monsoon II and a curvaball that I didn't even find out about until after this thread had already run it's course...I went with the Capital Connoisseurian 48" Dual-Fuel w/ 8 (Open) Burner configuration and I must say I absolutely LOVE IT. The fit and finish is as good as if not better than all of the BlueStars I saw in person (I visited about 6 different ones in 3 different stores during the process) and I've been estatic about the oven capacity and having an electric oven instead of gas for our baking purposes, etc. The electric rotisserie, electronic food probe and the kicker was the Wok insert (all of which I've used and very happy with the performance). It does take a while to get used to having this many powerful burners (all 25K minus the simmer burner) but it is a huge time saver for me as my wife and I both "prep" our food for the week on Sunday nights and with 2 cooks in the kitchen we can do multiple large quantities of food at once. Here's a couple cell phone pics and thanks for asking. One of these days once we finish with the interior designers and the furniture finally arrives (We're talking 12-16 week delivery times for most pieces - what the heck?!?) we'll get some legit shots done for everyone. Thanks! PS - Sorry for the dim light on the 2nd pic as the Monsoon II isn't installed/turned on - we're still waiting to pass the final building permit tomorrow before installing the Zephyr as we already have 2 makeup airs installed to run the furnaces and the code was going to require an addition 2 (4 total) so we are working our way around that idiotic code.

So far just a brief update. Our move-in was delayed and then we left for a week so we've only made a few meals but DH is impressed. He loves the simplicity of the design and the open burners. We did the initial burn off and I'm happy to report the odor was minimal. You could hear the fans cycling on and off but it wasn't distracting, we could carry on a conversation. We've only used the oven once to make an Ina Garten apple cake and it came out great - it was evenly browned on the top. We also installed a Prizer hood with an inline blower and the exhaust fans work well and I really like the light in the hood. We haven't made anything exotic or used the grill/griddle yet. We're still unpacking and setting up the kitchen. But DH couldn't wait to try out the BlueStar. He made veal and peppers in a 15" Calphalon skillet and was pleased with how evenly the bottom of the pan heated. I made a huge pot of minestrone last week and after bringing the soup to a boil reduced the heat and it simmered beautifully - I didn't use the simmer burner since the soup was in a 15 quart soup pot but the larger BTU burner simmered perfectly. He's hoping to try the Thermador rotisserie soon. Here's a photo from the install day - this was before we moved in so everything looks bare and sterile. It's a small kitchen in an over 55 community and we managed to squeeze in all of our favorites - the Bosch dishwasher is so quiet you wouldn't know it was running except for the red light on the floor. I'm getting used to the 42" Sub Zero too. In our last house we had the 36" all Frig and 36" all Freezer but our kitchen was 28x20 - so we definitely downsized. We're having the family here for Thanksgiving so that will be our first real test of our appliances and design. Have you made a decision? Maire

I would try to have separate ovens and range tops for about the same reasons. There are a few differences in the oven between the RNB and platinum. Two things would be important if you are a baker. The platinum uses the Pow-r burner and it is not additional but the only burner. There is no bottom burner. This is an issue for me in baking pies and even cakes as most recipes count on heat from the bottom. There might be some other things that rely on that but those would be the main issue for me. the Platinum has the convection fan on low every time the burner comes on as it must because the heat is in the back of the oven. You can't turn it off. This is drying to what you are baking. This is on top of an already dry environment in a gas oven. As a side note most manufacturers state on their website and in their literature that a gas oven is moist heat because water is liberated as a byproduct of combustion. Gas ovens have more air moving through so the moisture is removed. Electric ovens hold onto the moisture from food or added moisture. If using convection during roasting it will only run high speed when the Pow-r burner is off and low when it is on. Drying is a good thing when you are wanting something to brown because it evaporates superficial moisture allowing the Maillard reaction to take place. It is not such a good thing at the beginning of baking cakes or things that need to rise. As as far as a griddle, it is interesting that some of the features often listed can be a good or bad thing depending on how you use your griddle and burners. I'll use cookncarpenter's bullet points for a framework. There are all kinds of options. "Always on the stove top ready to go" The flip side is that you have less flexibility. This might be less of an issue with a 60" range, more with 36" One positive here for built in would be more stability unless you bought an overlay that is fitted. Some people use the griddle everyday so never would take it off. If you want a 24x24" griddle it would be very heavy but some people just have 2 overlays and use as needed. "No need to remove, store, replace" You can remove and store. "Thermostatically controlled, set desired temp and forget about it" I think it would be easier to reproduce a temperature with a thermostat. One side while talking about temperature would be that you are limited to 15K BTUs on the BS RNB built in. With overlays, you could have 2 15K burners or maybe more lined up front to back so much more power. "Once seasoned, extremely non stick-Cleaning is essentially a scrape, and wipe with paper towel (never soap)--Use for pretty much anything that can be cooked in a skillet or on a grill--Can be used as french top for sauce pans, great at keeping foods/plates warm--Excellent for warming tortillas and or leftovers" These things are pretty much true with all griddles. Chef King is popular and seasons well as does cast iron. Soap is somewhat controversial. :-) Even aluminum will season but it takes longer. Some aluminum griddles come in a nonstick coating. One thing to consider is the metal that makes up the griddle. Griddles are generally made of steel, cast iron and aluminum. Steel and cast iron tend to have zones of heat, lower and higher while thick aluminum tends to heat much more evenly. There is a photo of this in the review of the platinum that is on the front page of the appliance forum. An aluminum griddle can be bigger because of its excellent heat transfer properties. I have one that is 17x23 that can grill a boatload of sandwiches. Aluminum takes less time to heat and is much quicker to respond to adjustments in the flame. Some people like to have both and you can always buy the add on aluminum if you have a built in. It's not near as heavy as the steel. Some have replaced the griddle that comes with the Platinum because the heat is so intense coming out of the hole on top.