You can roast just as well with electric as with gas. If you want a moister environment for a better crust you can just put a little moisture in the oven. And you can bake in a gas oven. The most important things are even heat and not too big a temperature variation from the set point. All the rest is just about glossy gizmos and a little convenience.

Yes, there are convection gas ovens with convection, though it works better in some designs than others.

thank you. i think i've decided on a 48" gas and an electric wall oven. any suggestions on brands for either?

I'm surprised you haven't gotten more feedback. If you don't have several responses by tomorrow, try posting again with a different thread title.

Since you're talking about separate appliances, and started "at a total loss", I'll bring up The Induction Issue. If you're familiar with induction never mind. If not, before you decide for sure, do take a look at it. Induction uses electro-magnets to excite the iron molecules in steel or iron cookware. That heats the pot, which cooks the food. It's very efficient and doesn't heat up the kitchen the way gas does. It's also very responsive, and fast. Some people get it just to boil water fast. For handling it's very comparable to gas. It has been around for over 20 years, though was more popular in Europe and Asia than here until about 5 years ago. It's highly comparable to gas in the cooking (and is not comparable to radiant electric).

I'm not entirely sure, though, rereading your last message, whether you meant a 48" rangetop and electric wall oven, as I first read it, or a 48" all gas range with electric wall oven as a supplemental unit. Either way, I can tell you that some of the preferred brands here have been Wolf, BlueStar, American Range, Capital, and Five Star. There is also so love for Thermador and Electrolux. I may have forgotten some. Not so much love for Viking, currently, some questions about the solvency of BlueStar, etc. There's also a whole contingent of French range lovers, especially those who have Lacanche, a few Cornu, and a few of the Italian Bertazoni and Fratelli Onofri type. We also have lovers of the Agas with the valves (it takes a special person and climate to love an old fashioned, always on Aga).

Of course, there are also the basic appliance brands, but I'm not sure which come in 48". There isn't as much love for the standard units, but that might be just that you have to have passion for it to spend more in the first place, whereas the others might be perfectly satisfied but don't feel the need to talk about it.

I have passion. I can tell you that in my opinion the Gaggenau electric oven is the best money can buy. There are perfectly acceptable ovens that are more in line with many people's budgets, however.

To get more specific suggestions, please tell us more about your cooking style and price range.

Wow, thanks so much for the information! I really didn't know much about the induction cooktop, but I am very comfortable with gas, so that's why I think I'm going to go with that. I was referring to a full 48" range and oven in gas and a 30" electric wall oven. Right now, I'm looking at the Wolf (seen Viking, DCS, American and Thermador so far) for the range and haven't started researching the wall oven. I'm also looking into the differences with sealed and open? burners.

In the space we're putting the wall oven, we're also putting a microwave and a warming drawer. I know there are microwave ovens that have a convection feature but they won't substitute for an electric convection oven. Are there any true covections that have a microwave feature? Does that make sense? I'm not sure if there are any differences between warming drawers but any advice on those is also appreciated. I love to cook and want a nice, professional style kitchen and have some budget to look into higher end items. Thanks so much!

If you use the search box at the bottom of the list of threads and search individually on such items as "warming drawer" and "convection microwave", you should find lots of back threads with good information.

I have an Advantium, which is a speed oven that also does microwaving and convection bake. It was the darling of this forum at the time and I'm very happy with it. It's a big price jump from one that is just a "convection microwave". If those worked the way they're described they'd be great. There is little discussion of them here, however, and everyone I've known who has gotten one thinking it would do more than microwave has been disappointed with the results. They were fine for browning, but not as ovens, per se. Things are always changing, though, and they might be vastly improved since my friends' versions.

Warming drawers are very simple devices with few different features. For most people looks is the issue. A few can be panelled--Miele, Monogram and ... Dacor? I think it's Dacor. If you're going to panel, you need to make sure that your cabinet depth is appropriate. Most are meant for 25" deep total (including the panel). I think the Dacor (if that's the right brand) is less deep and easier to flush mount in skimpier cabinetry.

The other differences are temperature range, Sabbath Mode, and open or closed sides. And any freebies that might come. Mine came with stainless food containers that fit on a framework. With temperature range, some go down to 80° or 85° for rising dough (which they call "proofing" even though that's the wrong word) or plate warming, while others only go down to 140° which is the minimum temperature for hot food safety, and at that only for less dense foods. On the top end, some only go to about 200°, while others go over 220°. If you're going to use heavy cookware, dense food, and a lot of it, you'll need a hotter warming drawer.

A few, like Miele and Gaggenau, have open sides and a mat (silicone or something) to prevent sliding. This makes it marginally easier to use. Some also have removable racks that cover half the area and allow you to stack shorter pans or dishes. Finally, some have electronic controls that include an automatic four hour shut-off so that you don't leave things growing and turning disgusting, and potentially dangerous for a week. "Sabbath Mode" lets you turn that off if you have a reason why you really want to leave it on for more than 24 hours (i.e., holding tomorrow's Sabbath dinner at a safe, hot temperature from today, without having it cook more).

this is great, thanks very much. i'm going to do some research and come back. thanks again!!!

ok, i think i'm going to keep it simple and get a regular microwave, a good electric wall oven with convection (no microwave) and a warming drawer. the trivection and the speed ovens are too complicated and really what i want is the option to have my gas range and a good electric oven for roasting and baking respectively. any thoughts???
thanks!

Baking and roasting are the same thing, essentially, as far as the oven is concerned. The things that get roasted, meat and vegetables, are a lot more tolerant of a poor oven than baking of breads, cakes, cookies, etc. For those, you want the most even and accurate temperature. The other big difference is whether you get a charry or crisp crust on a roast. That's why some people prefer the moister environment of a gs oven (put a little water or wine in the electric one), and why some people like to have top as well as bottom heat while roasting (or use a sheet of foil or covered roaster).

Accurate doesn't necessarily mean that 350° is actually 350°. Rather, it means that when you set the temperature at 350° it goes to the same temperature every time you turn it on. You can easily learn to cook a little longer in a "slow" oven, or use a lower temperature in a "fast" oven, but take my word for it as one who has had one, you don't want a crazy oven that chooses its temperature by whim each time.

Re eveness, all ovens have a temperature spread. That is, they warm up, and when the sensor registers a certain temperature, the heating reduces or turns off. The actual temperature goes a bit over the set point which is why the oven is reducing heat. But then the oven starts to cool too much so it increases heat again. This can be done with the most simple components, or the most overengineered electronics. What the latter give you, however, is superior accuracy and evenness (hopefully) by having more minute control over what's happening and being able to calculate better the exact amount of power to put out to get to and hold the temperature exactly where you want it.

BTW, an old fashioned, solid fuel fired clay oven, properly tended, has excellent evenness and accuracy. So what you're looking for in an appliance is something that is the best approximation of a "real" oven.

I still maintain that Gaggenau makes the best available electric oven, though it has a price to match and no frills to go with. Someone posted a study a couple of years ago. At the time Gaggenau was the most even with a spread of something like +/- 7 degrees from the set point. Miele MasterChef wasn't far behind, I think at +/- 11 degrees, though recently, here, we've had some members with Miele ovens (I don't remember which models) who've had issues with a much wider spread. Gary (Dodge1959) swears by Electrolux Icon. I'm not familiar with that one myself, but don't remember seeing complaints either. There are plenty of other good brands with pluses and minuses.

All of it depends on what you want to do with your oven. I prize control. Other people prize a computerized oven that just cooks the food so they don't have to remember times and temperatures. Some people have mobility and strength issues and really benefit from glide out racks, while other people want to bake four trays of cookies all at once and value ease of moving racks and quality of convection more. (Glide outs aren't nearly as easy to move). Some people don't care so long as the controls are easy to use. Others want the full Star Ship Enterprise navigation panel and all the bells and whistles. Some people can't abide the bells and make sure that they can be turned off so the appliance isn't always beeping at them.

Keep looking! When you're down to a couple post a new thread and get more opinions.

will do, thanks so much!

I know this is an old thread, but I'm stuck without the same problem as sjb3ip. I need a good functioning, good looking range (30" or 36") and an electric wall oven. I bake a lot and need convection in at least the wall oven. I'd like true convection in both, but dual fuel ranges are so pricey and I was lead to believe that you could only get "true" or "European" convection in an electric oven. Is this true? Would an all gas range listed as having just "convection" (vs. "true") work for the occasional baked good?

I'm looking at a gas Berta Master series range or possibly a Fratelli and an Elux single oven.

loves2bake, yes it it is true that a gas range with convection isn't "true convection". It has the fan that circulates the heat but not a 3rd heating element. Not sure but each electric oven you would have to ask if they actually have the 3rd heating element. I have an all gas and came from electric. I have been more pleased with some things like meat and I can honestly say that all baking I have done in my AG DCS has been perfect. I used the convection mode for cookies.

Thx, eandhl. I looked at the Electrolux ICON E30GF74HPS all gas range and the description says European Conv with 3rd element heating. I'm going to call AJ Madison just to confirm.

I really think with your idea of the gas range and an electric wall oven you get the best of both. I can't answer about the auto on/off or delayed start on gas range as my DCS doesn't have the electronics for it. I thought I would miss it as I used to use the feature on my electric on occasion but found I don't.

At first my KD thought it was silly to have both a gas range and an electric wall oven. I'm glad to see someone else is doing it too! I'm looking at a Captial range 30" or 36" and a Bosch 30" electric wall oven. The Capital has true convection cooking with the extra heating element and an infared broiler. I am/was torn between the Electrolux wall oven and the Bosch but I can get a better deal or the Bosch which will help offset the cost of the larger range, if I go that way. I've always had gas cooking and alway burn stuff on my father-in-laws electric range, but I love to bake and feel the wall oven will let me do more cookies and they're at eye level.

Pevo

The topic of this thread brings something to mind. You mentioned wanting the on/off electric timer. Along with this seems to come availability of a clock, time bake, etc. The desire of my DW to have these features and the absence of them on most "professional" style ranges drove me to pursue separate cooktop and wall oven and, in that process, drove my kitchen design overall. I have pretty much made all of the design, layout and appliance choices in this kitchen remodel but I know that my wife likes using the time bake option and we have grown accustomed to having the timer on the oven. It's funny how those little features drove such a major decision like the layout of the kitchen - kinda' like cupholders in a new car...
Sorry for the departure from the thread, just made me think...

Dean

Pevo, glad to hear I'm not the only crazy one that wants another oven! Love the Capital range...can't find them anywhere around here. I'm also torn between 30 and 36 inch...think I'll bite the bullet and get the bigger one so I won't regret it later on.

"Thx, eandhl. I looked at the Electrolux ICON E30GF74HPS all gas range and the description says European Conv with 3rd element heating. I'm going to call AJ Madison just to confirm."

That gas range does have a true convecion (European).

From reading the technical specs on it, It appears that the range runs off 120 volts instead of 220-240 (Double check this thou)!!!! Assuming it is 120 volts, one wonders how well the convection heater heats on just 120 volts??

From reviews, I've read the range is positively reviewed.
Just goggle--- E30GF74HPS Reviews.

That's the good and (Maybe) "Semi-good News".

The bad news is that this range along with it's "sibling" Fridigaire model were recalled Due to CO (Carbon Monoxide) output. As far as I know the problem has been fixed, but be sure if you find any "Deals"---ie Demo's etc that they have had that fix installed. (Sounded like an oriface problem to me).

This bring up an IMPORTANT POINT!!!!!! If you have a gas stove/oven or any gas appliance--Heater, Gas Fireplace etc etc etc YOU BETTER HAVE A WORKING CO DETECTOR!!!!!!!

I have a gas fireplace, direct vent, but guess what????
I'm a gonna heed my own advice and get a CO Detector.

Good chance that these are not the only Ranges/ovens in the whole world that give out excessive CO---Ya thinks??

Easy nuff to check!!!

Good luck with your Hunt!!!!

Clink the link below to see the recall!

Gary

Here is a link that might be useful: Recall of Gas Range Due to CO

Boy , I think CRS is getting the Bes (Worst?) of me?�?
The recall was for the Elux Model and the Kenmore, NOT!!!
the Fridigaire.

Sorry bout that!

Gary

Gary, thx for the info. We're also looking at the Berta master series AG range...actually going to see some models in Cleveland today (can't find any in our local stores...of course).

Do I keep reading that you are a fan of the Elux wall ovens? A single wall oven is going to be our other purchase and I'm leaning toward the EW30EW55GS. love the Elux features and they seem to get good reviews. I need something that bakes WELL but the Gagg and Meile are out of price range (are they really that much better?). Would love your opinion....thx!

I am a fan of the Elux ovens, had mine since 2006 and completely trouble free. Since it is below counter the fully gliding out racks really help.

Alto we do not have the baking skills of some of the Ladies here (Cakes, cookies, etc), we do use the oven a lot. Meatloaf, Tamale Pies, Roasts etc, as well as, using it for new recipes we find on the net. We follow the recipes and far as time and temp go, and they always come out great.

CJ has great baking skills (breads etc), and she is very happy with her Elux ovens.

The post about the gas range is for your info, I try to be as factual as my research allows me to be, and I point out all aspects of the appliances I review or post about, (Both Good and bad).

I'm pretty much still a fan of the single ovens, or 2 single ovens instead of a dual oven, but I am keeping an eye out to see how most of the new dual ovens survive self cleaning,----for me, not enough data to recommend one.

I'm sure Elux sells many more ovens than Miele, maybe some of our appliance "Guru's" can give of some numbers here, So when you compare the post of various ovens on GW, and you find that "Most" are positive on the Elux Ovens, I think that "Speaks Well" for them.

Good luck on your pending decision!!

Gary

Buying appliances can wear you out sifting through so many features and benefits, claims and counterclaims and the "you have to have_____" or it is "no good", "a toy", "you're not a real cook". A real cook can cook on anything of course but there are a few things that make it easier.
My take.
I've been cooking for 50 years and have baked in many ovens gas and electric, and more recently(the last 4 years) started using convection, which I love for many but not all things.
It is very hard to compare the feature of "third element" convection from oven to oven and how it contributes to heat. How much power does the element draw? How much does it come on? Wolf has 2 elements others one. How much air do the fan(s) move? And most important, how does this relate to what you bake? Does it make any real difference?
When I first remodeled, I had a certain make of oven with the 3rd element and it over browned on the side towards the fan. I attributed this to the fan moving super heated air toward the food. Those ovens never worked right and were replaced with an Electrolux regular oven and a Wolf range, both having the 3rd element, which according all appliance salespeople(most of whom don't cook) is "essential". Both bake great and keep a very tight temp range but the Electrolux does not have a pure convection mode. The 3rd element is incorporated into the other modes but doesn't come on very often. The Electrolux has little lights that indicate what element is on while the oven is working. This caused me to question what exactly does the 3rd element do? On the Wolf and you can't tell how much the third element contributes to heating on the conv bake and roast modes. I haven't quite figured what the pure convection mode would do. They say it allows for even heating in multilevel baking but I get that with just the convection bake mode. My BIL is a baker and they use big gas ovens with a fan. He doesn't see the value of the third element. I personally think the idea of a third element is a lot of hype or maybe at best makes a minimal benefit and in some cases produces a hot spot on the side towards the fan. A feature with an electric oven I do like is the the roast mode. I like being able to manipulate the direction of the heat. The roast mode allows the upper element to come on and contributing to browning. Of course you can always turn the broiler on at the end of roasting time and add a little more browning.
Some electric ovens may also keep a more narrow range of temp, but this may not be all that significant either for most people.

I agree with Gary. I love my Electrolux oven and I bet it has one of the fastest preheats, which is a feature that is important to me, also the fact that it changes temp quickly when bumped up. Both of these features seem to be missing on many higher end ovens. Some ovens need 45 min to fully come to temp and have to be turned on and off to increase temp or take a long time to change.

Dodge55 and wekick, great things to think and ask about as I shop. ...thx for the input! I'll let you know when (if?) I ever make up my mind. We are still in the design phase, but my architect and cabinet guy want some specifics on my appliances.

Any advice as to 30 vs 36 inch range? I've read a lot of posts and looks like most go with 36. We have the space, but I've never felt that I needed 5 or 6 burners....however, I bet I'd use them if I had them! Cost is somewhat of a driver, but mostly it's aesthetic...we have a 6 ft long "cook center" on one wall and I worry that a 30 inch will look too "cube-y". Any advice? Once you go 36 you never go back?

I had the choice of 30 or 36 and went with 30 because I wanted the extra counter space and didn't need any more burners or a griddle. A 36 has a larger oven but it also takes longer to preheat. 30 ranges look fine - it's really a matter or what you need/want.

Dodge55 and wekick, great things to think and ask about as I shop. ...thx for the input! I'll let you know when (if?) I ever make up my mind. We are still in the design phase, but my architect and cabinet guy want some specifics on my appliances.

Any advice as to 30 vs 36 inch range? I've read a lot of posts and looks like most go with 36. We have the space, but I've never felt that I needed 5 or 6 burners....however, I bet I'd use them if I had them! Cost is somewhat of a driver, but mostly it's aesthetic...we have a 6 ft long "cook center" on one wall and I worry that a 30 inch will look too "cube-y". Any advice? Once you go 36 you never go back?

Loves2bake -- as far as looks go . . . well, I've seen many 30" ranges that look fine or very good and well-integrated into the space; correspondingly, I've seen larger ranges that look a bit off because of the way everything else fits, or doesn't fit, together. It matters to you however much it does, but there are different ways to work it out.

I ordered a 36" range because there are times when I really want more than 4 burners. Not nightly, or even each week, but there are times it matters to me. The cost difference is not all that large. At the same time, the cost difference is real on the range itself, and the bigger range meant a larger hood, and prompted us to order a more powerful blower, 10" ductwork instead of 6", etc. It adds up, so if you don't feel the need for the extra burners, or different burners, it might be worth tracking the full difference (which could pay for an extra oven, etc.) Also, as weisman said above, extra counter space is extra counter space. Everybody can use extra counter space and sometimes it's a key consideration.

The only wrong choice, IMO, is spending a bunch of money to get something that's not what you want.

I now have a 30 inch Blue Star RNB which has a convection gas oven, and a Miele Chef speed oven, which is a convection electric oven, MW and combination "speed oven." I think the combination of bigger gas oven for the big meat/serious baking/ holidays and a smaller electric oven for everyday/ baking small things is a good combination.

I will say that Blue Star makes the RCS which is a little more than half the price of the RNB -- not convection, no color, lower BTU's but overall basically the same range at a great price. If I had really thought it through enough I might have chosen to get this paired with the Miele. But I do love the color!