I don't have experience with either, but I have two Drakes in my living room waiting to replace the old American Standards in both of my bathrooms. I chose the Drake after doing a lot of web research. Most of what swayed me came from Terry Love's site and bulletin board.

Here is a link that might be useful: Love Plumbing

I have had both. The Kohler Cimarron in our last home & the Toto Drake in our current.
My preference is the Toto Drake.
Have you checked your area for a brick & mortar that sells Toto? I think you may be able to get a better price.

We have cimarrons in several bathrooms. I was skeptical- went into it wanting Toto and the plumbing supply place really recommended the kohlers, to the point of saying they would take them back if I wasn't happy. I caved due to the $, and was surprised to find I love them! After living with old kohlers requiring multiple flushes in our last home and then rental, I can attest to the massive improvements that kohler has made with this generation of toilet. We have never had to flush more than once, and they are really great toilets!

our plumber who makes a % on what he sells us, steered us away from the toto and towards the kohler. He said the diff in price wasn't worth it and he had Kohlers in his bathrooms.

Thanks to everyone for your postings! I appreciate the input.

As for the price of the Toto, the $409 is about $299 for the toilet, $40 for the seat, and $75 shipping.

Southern_Vesta, thank you, I'll look into pricing at a local store as well. Also, do you know if the Kohlers in your old house were Class 5 or Class 6? Thanks again!

Any other thoughts are welcomed!

I started my toilet search thinking I'd get a Kohler Class 6, but read a number of complaints about Kohlers leaving waste marks. The more I looked, the more I leaned towards Toto, whose Dual Cyclone flushing system is designed to address that very issue. We bought one for our first bathroom being remodeled, loved it, and bought another for the second bathroom. After a number of months now, I have to say we're completely happy with the Totos. We went with the Carlyle II model, which got me the flushing system we wanted, with the single piece and skirted look we wanted. Albeit at a price more than we wanted, but hey, you can't have everything! ;)

I have to say I'm suspicious that Kohler hasn't introduced more Class 6 toilets in several years now, while Toto has turned almost their entire product line over to better-flushing, lower water-use toilets in the past two years. The way it was explained to me by several people, Kohler came out with Class 5 toilets as a response to Toto's G-Max, which introduced a more powerful flush by having a 3" flush valve instead of the then-standard 2". But there were complaints that although the Class 5 toilets had a powerful flush with the 3" valve, they left debris on the bowl, so Kohler went back to the drawing board and came out with Class 6 to better wash the bowl. Except that Kohler introduced a few Cimmaron models in Class 6 in spring 2008, and still hasn't broadened this technology to other models in their line. So my guess -- and it's purely a guess, as I have no toilet industry knowledge -- is that Kohler is working on a next-generation flushing system to supplant Class 6 and better compete with Toto's new generation of toilets.

I can tell you that even though we ended up with a 1.28 gallon toilet, we have never needed to flush the toilet twice. That surprises me as much as the fact that I'm writing to sing the praises of a toilet!

If you're interested, here are a couple threads from earlier this year about my questions about both Kohler and Toto, lots of helpful comments from other forum members, and how I ended up choosing Toto.

Choosing a Kohler toilet: how to weigh form vs. function?

Okay, tell me about Toto toilets

-- Eric

We just put in 2 Toto toilets....Drake in the bathroom downstairs and it has an amazing flush....Aquia III in the upstairs bathroom mainly because I wanted the skirted toilet upstairs....the Drake is far better for flushing.

bebotivo, I do not recall the class of the Kohler Cimarrons we had, sorry. What I do recall were the waste marks on the Kohler Cimarron. No waste marks on the Toto Drakes I have now. I feel the Toto is worth the extra cash for that alone!

Another timely post! I am still in a quandary. My head says Toto, but the salesperson at Ferguson's swears that the Toto's are overrated. We've had 3 of them and I'm not overjoyed. That said, we've never had one with Dual Cyclone flush or with Sani-gloss. This time if I choose Toto, the toilet must have both features.

Compumom, keep in mind that bath showrooms can display either Kohler or Toto, but not both due to the companies' marketing agreements, and if I remember correctly from my shopping, Ferguson is on Team Kohler. That could be a significant influence on what a salesperson tells you about Toto vs. Kohler.

-- Eric

Thank you to everyone for your input! Jacobse, thanks for the additional threads too.

I think I might be more confused than ever. I guess I'll never really know if one toilet is better than the other unless I had them in a side-by-side test, which won't happen. I am hearing praises for the Toto Drake so I may lean that way. If the MaP test results weren't worse for the Drake than the Cimarron, I'd be confident.

Many thanks again!

This is my first post to the bathroom forum even though I lurked extensively all summer while we were doing our bathroom remodel. A leaky toilet is what started us down the road to remodeling, and the toilet was the last thing that went in when we finished in mid-September. We did extensive research, and started out wanting a Toto Drake. We then went all over the map, and considered different Toto models, skirted, non-skirted, 1.6, 1.28, Kohlers, other brands, and on and on. In the end we came back to the Toto Drake, 1.6 with G-Max and Sanigloss. Our total price from Homeclick in September (toilet, seat, shipping) was $278. Now, we can't speak for the Kohler Cimarron, but we LOVE our Drake. It looks great, flushes great and stays clean. We've had it about six weeks and have never had to flush twice. It amazes us! We would never have thought we could enjoy a toilet so much, but we do. Just our two cents.

I have one toto nexus and two toto drakes in my place now. No complaints whatsoever and I am buying four additional toto's for the new house I just bought.

I am disappointed hearing that the aquia does not flush well, as I was planning on 3 aquias and one nexus in the new house. Does anyone else have feedback on this?

Homeclick.com has free shipping. Save yourself the $75 shipping. Or try faucetdirect.com's price match to see if you can get free shipping from them. They refunded it to me, plus the price difference of the toilet, when Homeclick put them on sale the day after I bought from faucetdirect!

a restaurant we frequent installed the kohler. i was so impressed with it i asked the owner which it was! it's got a great flush. i had already purchased my toto's ...otherwise i would have considered the cimarron.

rockybird: Let me clarify about my toto aquia III, it flushes fine it's just the the Drake flushes fabulous! I am still happy with my choice though for the upstairs bathroom having the aquia III dual flush. The Drake is downstairs in the "boys" bathroom which is a good thing. I didn't mean to mislead you into thinking it doesn't flush well-just the Drake seems to get rid of stuff better.

I think all the dual flush toilets, Kohler and Toto, have some trade-offs in terms of flushing compared to the top-of-the-line flushing systems in both companies' product lines. If you want the very best waste removal and bowl wash, you'l choose a single flush toilet; if you want dual flush, you trade off just a little in performance.

-- Eric

Many thanks to everyone who provide their input and experiences!! I wanted to let everyone know that after much consideration I ordered the Toto Drake CST744EL. I am awaiting delivery...and am very excited. Thank you again!

What is the best Toto Drake model?

For what it's worth, this topic is timeless.

Toto Drake is the model. They have short and tall, oval and round. Beyond that there are accessories for it. The best one has the features you want.

I used to travel and work from hotels 5 days a week. At one time the hotel I was in was brand new with Toto Drake toilets. I liked them so much I ordered one for my house from a local plumbing supply house. When I went to pick it up they asked if I wanted to see the new American Standard Cadet III. I really didn't want to, but they had a demonstrator set up filled with golf balls. I tried it and changed my mind. One of the features I liked about the Drake was the antifungal and bacterial glaze. The Cadet III used the same glaze. They had rolled the Drake out to my car and I called them back in to exchange for the cheaper toilet. At the time the Drake was $409 and the Cadet III was $122. Since then I have bought 6 more Cadet III models for condos and houses we've moved to. It's the first thing I change. Until this house we moved into a year ago. It has American Standard Estate toilets. I'd never seen one, and after looking it up I knew why. $500 is way more than I would spend on a toilet. It has all the same features as the Cadet III plus nicer styling and a different flush wash through the bowl.

Toto reinvented the low flush toilet in the late 2000s, but all the American manufacturers caught on quickly. They caught on so quickly that virtually everyone made a better quality toilet than Toto. I'm not certain what has changed since then, but the Totos are all up to the same quality standards as the rest. If you really want to pay twice as much to have a Toto, that's your business.

I feel the same way. I bought the Kohler Highline dual flush toilet for $250 in 2016. 7 years later, I can't find even a $600 toilet to match it in terms of looks and performance. It has a standard flush which really does the job. Everything looks cheap now in comparison both Kohler and Toto - the design, the porcelain, toilet seat and flush handle. Shrinkflation indeed! Everyone at home has good toilet manners and our Kohler toilets have remained spotless and we had zero problems withit. When I renovate my bathroom now, this is one of the items I won't be changing.