Help! Lippage and low grout acceptable?
After all the tiles were put down, I noticed some very bad lippage on about 10 tiles. Smaller lippage all over entire area. After discussion, the contractor popped out and reset about 20 planks due to very bad lippage. The contractor assured me once the grout was applied, the remaining lippage should not be a problem.
Now the grout was applied and waiting to be sealed. I can see there are still noticeable lippages everywhere. See pictures. The grout was applied pretty low along grout line. The sharp edges of rectified tiles, plus lippage hurt my feet when walked on it. The light of afternoon sun just made the lippage looked worse. I measured, now the remaining lippage heights are from credit card thickness to penny thickness, on both the long and short sides of the plank. The grout is about 0.035-0.05" low to the surface of the tiles.
At this point, are the low grout and lippage acceptable? Should I accept this kind of work? How could it be fixed, if could?
On top of those two problems, I found out that 25 tiles make hallow sounds when finger tapped. I could feel vibration from the tiles when tapping. The installer said they are caused by holes in mortar and is normal and will not cause tiles to crack. After talking to him, he is going to replace about 8 really bad loose tiles, but leave the rest of 17 tiles as it is because he thinks acceptable.
Background information: Installer put down about 600 sqt of large format 8x48 wood looking rectified tiles for livingroom and dinnering room. the tiles are well made by Elegaza Natura Wood, and imported from Italy, about $7 sqt.
http://www.eleganzatiles.com/product-series/porcelain/nature-series.html.
I used Nature Wood - Miele 8x48
The installer is a licensed tile setter. The grout line are set to about 3/32 without using spacers. The subfloor was prepared with no any special treatment. Glue sealed large cracks. The rest, he just smoothed out the concrete.
Thank you very much for your opinions and suggestions.
Monkeyta123
Comments (12)
numbersjunkie
8 years agoRelated Discussions
Should I be concerned about the lippage on my new tile job?
Comments (21)I'm having a very similar issue with my floor tiles. My builder stated that a tiler was unavailable during the construction of my house and said that his builder will do my tiling. He reasurred me that he was very good. Well job is done and there is lipping everywhere. He has tried to replace the worst ones (6 tiles.. making no difference) and regrouted everything but I'm still not happy. I haven't tried the card test yet but I will. He just keeps telling me "my tiles may even be worse then these, they are within standards" (he does not have polished porcelain with a rectified edge!) Its also the reflection that bothers me. I had an expectation that any reflection should be almost mirror image, but my reflections seem to jump all over the place, which is what alerted me to the lipping in the first place. Is this normal?? Do I have an unreal expectation that he should rip them up and start again? They are not all bad, but by replacing one, I feel it will cause lipping to the one next to it etc. Please help :( I dont know what I should accept and what I have a right to demand....See MoreHelp! Lippage Acceptable?
Comments (24)If you are not sure, find a certified tile inspector (google) in your state and pay him to inspect the tile and give you a report. I suspect that the inspector will find issues. Take the report to the contractor and insist that he fix the issues. If the contractor doesn't repair, then file a complaint with your state contractor licensing agency (the Registry of Contractors in our state) who can force the contractor to fix it or suspend his license (and then you can also file a claim with the state agency to get money to repair). You can also file a dispute with your credit card company if you paid by credit card. I just went through the process in my state after a contractor installed a large format wood look tile. It cost me $300 for the first inspection report and then $300 for the inspector to come back out when the agency representative came to the house. There were other issues such as appliances not fitting so that they were removeable. The agency agreed with the certified tile inspector and the contractor ended up removing all the tile (although my concrete is now pretty beat up from being jackhammered to get the tile out) ... but it was still better than living with a terrible tile job. The credit card company had also given me a full refund on my credit card so I was in a pretty good position (if he had fixed my floor somehow, then I could have deducted my costs anyway). You just need to do a good job on your write-up and make sure you have expert opinion (which is why you get a tile inspector). I was lucky enough to accidently call the most respected inspector in the state. If you tell the contractor tactfully that you are going to go through this process before you do it, then maybe he will just fix the issues and save you both time, grief, and money. By the way, the state agency representative that came out took out a credit card and any areas that had more lippage than a credit card were found to be faulty....See MoreIs this an acceptable tile job?
Comments (8)Creative Tile is on it! No water proofing = do over! Good news is, you don't need to pay for anything else! The GC is the one who should "talk" to the tile guy. He who pays the subs, talks to the subs. He who pays the GC, talks to the GC. The GC hired a tile guy = GC responsible for said tile guy AND lack of water proofing. S/he who purchases the TILE is responsible for the tile. This is why GCs, designers, installers HATE it when homeowners insist on providing materials...it muddies the water. Now we have tons of finger pointing re: tile shape, size, colour, etc. Sadly, you are VERY luck the water proofing is MISSING!!! Very lucky. Everything needs to be removed (probably nothing can be salvaged) and the GC needs to start again...the tiles are irrelevant because the waterproofing is missing. That's your argument! Stick to it. And stop talking to the tile guy. The GC is your point of contact. That's why you have one. I'm sorry you are going through this. I would look at it as a blessing in disguise. The tiles are probably the reason why the alignment is all mucked up. And if you purchased the tile, it would be your responsibility to pay for new tile and another installation (if you didn't like it and insisted on a redo). The lack of water proofing takes away that financial responsibility. That's why I think the lack of water proofing is a blessing in disguise. Good luck. Keep us posted....See MoreTile Lippage Question
Comments (8)Unless you can prove that the subfloor was not perfectly done (sounds like they got it as close to flat as possible) then we have to look at the TILE. Tiles this large are almost always warped. The LEVEL of warping is now the question. As Sophie points out, you need to find out HOW warped is "warped". The easiest way to do so is to put two tiles "face to face" (pretty side to pretty side) and then "back to back" (ugly side to ugly side) and take PICTURES (if you can get a ruler or a measuring tape in the pic that would be even BETTER). Post those pics. And now the crucial part: who chose the tile (s/he who picked them is responsible for them)? Who gave instructions as to installation pattern (1/3 off-set, 1/5 off-set, 1/2 off-set, etc)? Who was on site to receive the tiles and signed off on them? Who gave the 1/8" grout line as the required amount? The person (or persons) who made all those decisions will have to answer to them. For this reason, many of the "outstanding" tile setters will insist on choosing their own tiles (or Kitchen Designers will insist on using their own suppliers) so that this does NOT happen. And Joseph is correct. The "worst offenders" are worth dealing with if the entire floor has lippage issues like this. The fix is often worse than the disease. As Sophie is fond of saying, "Lipstick on a pig." This is either a "live with it" or it is a complete redo....See Moremonkeyta123
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