Is this a custom house, or a custom "spec" house? Ie, is this part of a development all by one builder company that you pay for at the end like a house sale, or did you hire this builder yourself and your contract, and your attorney, and you pay as you go?

We had a key.

Who's paying for the house?

Hmmm, we put our own lockbox on but my husband is doing a ton of the work, so locking us out would never have crossed anyone's mind. I think this is a main difference between a custom build and a spec build (or development build).

It is a custom built home. We pay the builders at the end. So sounds like that must be the difference. We've designed it and it will be ours...but I guess for insurance purposes no one (not even us) can get in. I understand the liability part of it and certainly want the house to be secure. I just never thought we'd also be locked out ;(

Yes, technically if your paying at the end, even though you designed it it is not yours yet. So yes it is all about liability and insurance.

There is no way I would have allowed our builder to lock me out of my custom home while it was being built.

Typically the owner in a custom home project owns the land before contracting with the builder. The owner brings the design to the table and may have gotten bids from multiple potential builders before contracting with particular GC. Once the project begin, the owner pays for materials and labor as the project progresses via draws. If taxes come due on the property during the course of the build, the tax bill goes to the owner and the owner is liable for paying them. While the owner typically grants an M&M lien against the property to the builder, the owner owns the land and the house as it is being built. In a custom project, the owner is the ultimate boss. The GC works for the owner. And, under these conditions, it would be ludicrous for the GC to think he had the right to lock the owner out of the project.

In spec projects (although they may sometimes be called "custom" or "semi-custom" by the builder), before any contracts between owner and builder are signed, the builder usually owns the land on which the home will be built. The customer (future owner) has no choice but to use THAT builder if he wants to build a home on THAT piece of property. The builder usually has a selection of home designs that the future owner may choose from amongst. The builder may allow the customer to make a few changes to one of these designs or he may even go so far as to have a designer/architect who works for him create a unique design for the customer. However, the builder maintains control of the design process and has the right to veto anything he thinks will result in a home design that might have limited appeal to other buyers. (If this customer backs out the builder wants to be sure he can easily sell the resulting house to someone else!) The customer almost always gets to pick out surface finishes like paint colors, carpeting, tile, light fixtures, and so on but is almost always limited to selections available from vendors chosen by the builder. While the customer may put some money down (earnest money) before the project starts, the builder continues to own the land & building until the final close. So, if any taxes come due on the property during the build, the GC pays them. The GC actually works for himself and the future owner is his CUSTOMER. Under these conditions, it makes sense for the GC to decide who can and who cannot come onto the property.

Sounds like a "turnkey" project delivery method where the builder owns everything until the keys are turned over to the new owner. Limits to access to the house by the future owner during construction will be spelled out in the contract.

A house built on "speculation", by definition, will be sold after the project is completed.

I was never locked out of our build....and it was custom.

We put money down, but will pay the balance after the home is finished. So everything is still owned by the builders. That said it still very inconvenient to not have access when we want. Someone previously mentioned it would be spelled out in the contract but I didn't see it. Thanks for all the input!'

Lisa - it's definitely inconvenient, but it is normal for a pre-sale for liability and other reasons.

I think ppl saying they weren't locked out of their custom builds had true customs that they owned during the process (as opposed to the builder owning until the end.)

I guess it depends on the builder. We bought a home started as custom for somebody else that pulled out and the builder continued it as a spec. We came in right after drywall. Ours was similar with a lock box, but all we had to do to get access was to request it. The code changed often, but we never had any issues getting access.

We bought our lot before construction began, and used a construction loan to pay the builder as it progressed...I guess that is the difference. We had complete access at anytime, darn good thing as we were renting a house in walking distance and were there all.the.time!! :) I would ask for the code...otherwise I would bug them all the time to meet me there so I could check on things!

And hey, look on the bright side, you aren't paying all of that interest on a construction loan!

We put a small percentage down (about 5-10%) and the builder owned the land and cost to build until the day of closing where we bought the finished home. The home was fully custom but the builder made the same fuss about no access apart from once a week when they escorted us to the home and site. I did not like it but can understand why...

Dpusa - that's exactly our scenario. And I don't like it either...but will deal with it :). Thank you for sharing your experience!

When you asked the builder for a key what did he say?

Renovator8 - the first time I inquired I was at the house with my sister and her husband and kids. They thought it would be fun for kids to see the house under construction. I called the coowner and she said they don't give the lockbox combo to anyone for insurance purposes - she wouldn't budge.

Recently my husband emailed her again to ask if he could see the house without making an appointment - it's harder for him to get off work early in the day. That's when we got a long explanation back. Again, we understand the insurance thing - maybe its a stipulation in their policy and a requirement to not give it out to anyone. But sill... you know, it sucks. He's not even seen the completed dry wall yet. We both took off work tomorrow to get some things done and will be going over - i hope someone is there so we can get in. Otherwise, i'll just request a bi-weekly standing date with the builder :)

When I purchased my first new house from a tract house builder, I checked out the building site a few times a week until it was locked up. No entry after that point (but this being a huge production builder, this period only lasted 4 weeks. Then the house was finished). If one doesn't even own the land I don't think there should be an assumption of access, insurance or not. It's almost like wanting access to a pre-owned house in escrow before closing. Even if the previous owners don't live there, the future new owner won't get access without an appointment.

The thought of children on a construction site wearing sneakers just put a chill through me.

Perhaps someone from the builder would meet you there during off hours. That would actually be a much safer time to be there.

Children in a construction zone? Nope.

Here in southern Ontario most tract builders won't let the buyers in for one single minute, not even to measure for blinds. This has been going on for years now, insurance is the excuse, the 2x3 non support walls might be a real reason to name one.

The time to think about access and quality control/assurance is when the contract is being negotiated. I always insist on full access and oversight but that's part of what I do for a living.

What if the Customer pays for and carries the builders insurance and not the GC?

Who owns the land?

Our previous build was a semi-custom with us putting a small amount down and financing once it was done. We did not have a key, but could pick one up from the model home anytime they were open. Our current build is a full custom and we have the construction loan and own the lot. We have a key and I would demand it if we didn't.

The one thing to remember in your case is that you technically do not own the home and the builder has to be cautious. This is similar to some builders not allowing buyers to do work on the house.

I'm sure there are some insurance considerations, but I'm nearly certain this isn't the whole of it. The last thing a developer wants (while he's on the hook for all costs) is to have a soon-to-be homeowner poking around and noticing things that would possibly warrant a "fix", right then. That slows production, and the developers don't want that.

Lisa, if I were you I'd accept that you are buying a semi-custom home with your participation on material choices. Hey- not bad! Then get yourself into position for what's called "punch". This is the time when you get to bring in your own inspector, and crawl through the house, in it's entirety. At that point, the developer has sunk some money in. Wants it back. You get to be picky, and that's the time to do it. Fix or no deal, if you or your independent inspector see anything amiss.

I'd give not one dollar towards a build that I was locked out of unless the above conditions were met and satisfied.

Folks, Lisa built her house back in 2013.

Oliverocala, you might have better luck asking if you start a new thread as too many people do not take the time to read through the thread.

Dang it- fooled again! I actually did read it through- skipping dates. Lol, for me.

It's for your safety. Everything is under builders insurance, therefore builder is responsible for everything that happens on the job-site and if someone gets hurt first thing they will do is sue the builder. I don't even let my customers come onto the property during work hours or off hours alone unless I know it is safe and I'm there with them.

I don't even my customers come onto the property during work hours or off hours alone unless I know it is safe and I'm there with them.

Depends on what's in your contract. Ours (since 100% true custom) included a clause that "Contractor to allow work by Clients own forces' as we were doing some of our own work, and hiring contractors for other portions. (So if he claimed we couldnt be onsite due to insurance concerns, he technically would be in violation/default of the contract.) We also owned the land in full.

That didn't stop the builder from screaming insurance issues at us when he disagreed with us on how to fix a water leak (and was trying to bully us off the property so we couldn't complain about his subpar fix), and trying to evict us off our own land...but a nicely worded letter approved by our lawyer stopped that nonsense fairly quick.

In these matters the contract rules, what is in your contract matters a lot more than who owns what and when payments happen. Custom, semi-custom or tract really doesn't matter that much, so long as the financial commitment is firm. It is rarer for a builder to shut you out in situations where you have more control of the work but you also have an interest in a tract home.

The insurance claim is fairly bogus, really it is a bit more than bogus than that. Have the homeowners sign a release and you are done. Even without a release a builder would only be responsible for an injury claim when the builder is negligent. That means that the builder did something that is outside the standard of reasonable care, in construction that means a very broad industry standard.

In the end, the main reason that contractors shut people out of construction sites is that they don't want to deal with those people. They legitimately don't want homeowners directing their workers, and they don't want homeowners questioning their work. It would take me a few minutes to draft a release that would remove the builder's liability for all but the most indefensible cases of negligence.

Our builder puts the locks on about the time the drywall goes in. We had the code to get in. He also turned on the alarm with a feature that auto disarms it between 6AM and 8PM. The workers didn't have the alarm code.

As someone said earlier, I would never buy a house that I was prohibited from inspecting during construction. I'm on my 3rd new tract home and have always had unlimited access.

No one said a homeowner cannot visit the house... They can but... by appointment with a builder present. The only reason is the homeowner safety.

That being said, some people have no common sense... They come visit the job-site off hours (or even when the builder is present) and they bring kids and relatives, and while roaming the construction site... the kids are left unattended and they running around all over the place and GFB someone gets hurt, who will be the first one to get sued? I think we all know the answer to that.

Furthermore, keep in mind, our insurance policies also have the clause, if a customer gets caught roaming the site, the insurance company will drop the coverage and when they drop the coverage, no one wants to insure you or they will charge through the roof.

On the general note, when your car goes for repairs you are not allowed to roam around the shop unless someone is present. If you go to any place of business you cannot enter the work area unless someone takes you there and there is always a sign "employees only", "no customers pass this point" etc.

Agree dave. I wouldn't have built if I couldn't monitor my build on MY time. Good thing too since I've caught a few mistakes.

Here's one example ... the plumber ran the drain in the basement floor to the basement toilet but was off by about 3". Then the concrete guys poured the floor and covered up the drain line. When the framers came along they put their bathroom walls up in the correct location leaving the toilet drain 3" too far away from the wall. To solve that problem they were going to bump out a section of the wall by 3" so that the toilet tank would be the typical inch from the wall.

Had I not stopped in and seen what they were doing and asked the plumber to break up the concrete and move the drain, the framers, sheet rock guys, tile guys etc all would have followed this awful bump out and the fix would have been more difficult and expensive for someone.

I have other examples of problems I prevented by stopping in regularly butyou get the point.

Or how they poured the concrete curb for my shower 4" to the wrong side so my shower would have been 38" wide instead of 42" wide. Something they would have missed if I wasn't allowed into the house

Or how I noticed the window guy put the windows in upstairs flush with the interior wall so there was no reveal. Something they would have missed if I wasn't allowed into the house

Or how the same window guy instead of centering the windows in my DH's study had them just off center enough that when the matching bookcases went in on both sides of the window it would have been noticed. Something they would have missed if I wasn't allowed into the house

Or how the window guy again first put the windows in the living room so they wouldn't have been centered on the outside wall because he was lazy and instead of measuring just started at one end and then wondered why there was 8" left over on the other side. Something they would have missed if I wasn't allowed into the house.

Or how the window guy again (see a pattern?) was off on the window on one side of the lanai door so one window was 1" closer to the door than on the other side. Something they would have missed if I wasn't allowed into the house.

Or how when the mason poured the other windows in DH's study, he didn't center the east and west window so one could look from one through to the other as it was on the plans but had it poured so one was 16" off center. Something they would have missed if I wasn't allowed into the house.

Or how the window that was supposed to be a full sized window on my backsplash turned out to be only 8" high because the purchaser talked me into his vision and not mine. Something they would have missed if I wasn't allowed into the house.

Or how the AC guy was putting in vents wherever was convenient to him with no thought of aesthetics, such as placing a vent off-centered over a door versus centered. Something they would have missed if I wasn't allowed into the house.

Or how some of the ductwork was squeezed into the rafters just enough that we had an inspector look and agree it needed to be fixed. Something they would have missed if I wasn't allowed into the house.

Or how the electrician put one exterior light fixture 16" from my balcony door, but the other fixture he put 22" from the door. Something they would have missed if I wasn't allowed into the house.

Or how we all forgot to put a light switch in the kitchen leading to the friends entry to turn the lights on in the friends entry. Something they would have missed if I wasn't allowed into the house.

Or how the plumber put the shut off for the washer/dryer so low on the back wall, there would have been no way possible to get to it because no one had told them that the washer/dryer were going on raised platforms. Something they would have missed if I wasn't allowed into the house.

Or how there was no indication as to the height of the risers of the stairs so when I came in and noticed they were 7 3/4" high, I had them redo it because that was too high for my aging knees. Something they would have missed if I wasn't allowed into the house.

Or how I realized as they were framing that some of the doorways needed headers, even though it hadn't been specified. Something they would have missed if I wasn't allowed into the house.

Or how because of them not figuring out HVAC before building, they had to put a chase in my upstairs closet. So that necessitated them moving the doors to the closet 3" to the left. Something they would have missed if I wasn't allowed into the house.

And the latest. I approved the pool design almost a year ago. It has a swim lane with the east side of the swim lane having a 4' depth and the west side having a 5' depth. There is a path on the pool deck to the backyard on the east side of the pool that is 5' wide with steps down to the backyard. Turns out the city requires the depth of the pool to equal the distance from the house, so if your depth on that side is 5' you need a 5' width between house and pool.

Instead of the PB asking me to just switch the east and west depths which would have been smart, he redesigned the pool deck and pool so now my walking path on the east side would only be 4' 9" to the water line. He never sent me an updated drawing, or a change order. NOT ACCEPTABLE. So while the pool guy's plans said 4'9" mine said 5'. And I would have never known it, except I went to watch as they were laying in the rebar the other day. Again, something they would have missed if I wasn't allowed into the house.

They come visit the job-site off hours (or even when the builder is present) and they bring kids and relatives, and while roaming the construction site... the kids are left unattended and they running around all over the place and GFB someone gets hurt, who will be the first one to get sued? I think we all know the answer to that.

With respect, it is obvious that you don't know the answer to that. What is their theory of the case that is going to land you in court?

To be sued for a jobsite injury, the contractor must be negligent. Negligence requires four elements. That there was a duty, that there was a breach of duty, there was an injury, and the breach of duty caused the injury.

When looking at construction the second and third elements become important - so let's explore those.

A breach of duty - you must do something that a reasonably prudent person wouldn't have done. In other words, in home construction, you must have created a danger that other people in your industry wouldn't have. You essentially would have to do something that other contractors wouldn't do because of the danger associated with it. For some free advice here - Don't do those things! Forget clients, workers are going to eventually sue you for those things.

Causation - There are several parts of causation. First, the damage must be foreseeable, in other words a reasonable person in your position should have known that the injury was possible and that there were other methods that would make the injury avoidable. So even if the danger is foreseeable but not reasonably avoidable then there is no liability.

Next, the injury must be something that a reasonable person couldn't foresee. This is the big one for construction. There is a potential for certain injuries when walking into a construction site. Falling off of things, things falling on you, exposed abrasion dangers, etc., are all things we expect to find in a construction site and wouldn't be actionable.

Honestly, the release I spoke of earlier isn't really needed, it really just puts clients on notice that there are reasonable dangers in a construction site and so you don't have to assert that in court.

I'm on site daily. If I didn't we'd have problems. Not a week goes by I don't find sonething dubious. This week for instance:

1. Found drywallers walling over what is supposed to be an archway.
2. Found framing missing for a glass block detail.
3. Found misplaced wiring.
4. Found a missing hose bib.

If the drywallers had finished, it would have been painful to fix some of these.

I dont like my clients looking over my shoulder while i do my job for them but it would never occur to me to tell them that they couldnt do so. Most of the time they ask dumb questions and annoy me but every once in a while they save me from a mistake.

CP, do you think some of this is typical or do you just have god-awful builders?

CP, do you think some of this is typical or do you just have god-awful builders?

The problem is unless the builder has their own subs on staff, they are at the mercy of the companies they work with and who the companies send to do the work.

I'm guessing that there isn't a single builder who doesn't make mistakes. My builder before we started even admitted it. He told me, "We will make mistakes. It happens. However, we will fix them so you're satisfied." Am I satisfied? Mostly so far.

And of course things like the headers over some of the doorways and it not being noted is partly my fault for not realizing they weren't in the plans and very much my draftsman's fault for not putting them in the plans even after I asked him to put them in.

I had one build where the builder was on site every day. Very few mistakes were made in that house. On the next build the builders construction manager came by weekly and left everything to the subs. That house had lots of mistakes. I think the difference is the amount of supervision the builder provides for his subs.

My supervisor is on site daily.

Here's the deal - in a custom home, no one knows your house plan like you do. Let to their own devices, subs "freelance" and do it the way they always have done it. Which may, or may not, be the way you want it done. If you are not there, the risks for your vision being uh, distorted, are high. You usually own the land and are paying for the loan. The builder and contractors are there as your invited guests.

In a tract home, you are basically getting someone else's design. They "turn and burn" and get the home done. It's pretty counterproductive to allow people into their homes during construction for the contractor - as 1) they will find things they don't like or 2) they will ask for things that they don't want to do (changes) And - in a lot of cases, the builder owns the lot and the loan, so you are trespassing. ;-) Obviously not an ideal dynamic, but it's the truth.