I just checked the online manual for your oven and you're right - there's no baking mode except convection bake in which the broiler element doesn't come on - that really sucks - other oven brands have such a mode - there are certainly things like souffles and popovers that you definitely want bottom heat for. If I were you I'd return the oven if you're able to. Failing that, I'd try baking things in convection bake mode and see if they work ok or else put a baking sheet on a rack above what you're baking to block the direct heat from the broiler.

We chose KA double ovens for our new home about 11 years ago and had the same problem. Imagine my surprise when the large Thanksgiving turkey looked like it was done after 45 minutes. I had to cover it with foil the rest of the cooking time. I wound up putting my pizza stone on the top rack to shield most of the things I would bake or they would burn on top. A sheet of cookies would be alright if it was on a lower rack, but I'm not sure I could have baked two racks at once.

I had a number of service calls on that oven, and the service tech seemed to think there was a problem. When he couldn't resolve it, he called the KA tech support and they told him that was the way it was wired. The top element was to come on during the reheating.

I never got a resolution on that -- we wound up having to move. I still wonder if the cycling is what was intended but the fact that the upper element is coming on so strong is not. They said it was supposed to be at a lower power. Frying everything doesn't seem to be low power/reheating. I'd keep pressing KA -- I still say something isn't right. If all their ovens operated like yours and my old one, they'd be out of the business by now. Something is not right.

What a stupid feature! I had to go and read it for myself before I could believe it wasn't some sort of wiring or programming error. I could understand the logic of it if it was capable of being programmed independently using a control function as to start/stop clock, power level(s), duration(s), and time(s) of application. That would be sensible to replace what people now do manually to get a desired result. But sheeech!

What they explained to me was that the upper element coming on at a reduced powere was supposed to make the oven maintain a more even heat by reheating from above and below -- which is why you don't see it with convection that has the fan to move the air inside the oven. Other ovens rely on a degree of natural convection caused by heat rising to even out the temp. Guess that's supposed to deduce the chance of having blackened bottoms too.

I understand their theory, but at least some ovens don't seem to have that element coming back on at the reduced temp -- so it's like baking by broiling. It doesn't work very well. I'd be looking at whatever it is that is supposed to regulate that reduced power -- a regulator, resistor, the control panel -- whatever. The cycling may be right -- but not the power level.

I didn't look at KA ovens for my recent remodel because of that feature.

carly, I've had several ovens. A GE and Kitchenaids. I too have a newly KA installed ovens. I think it is normal for the broiler to heat during bake. I know I've always seen the bright red glow during preheating. Once the oven is fully preheated and during bake, I don't think the coils are activated long enough to glow so intensely as to overbrown things. My ovens have never done that and have always been excellent bakers. I'm very persnickity with cakes and cookies.

Are you sure you are preheating long enough. For baking 20 minutes is a good preheat time. This is well beyond the preheat signal. Another thought, maybe your oven is hotter than you'd like. There is a way through some button pushing to reduce the heat in 5 or 10 degree increments. What about the position of your racks. For cake baking the top of the cake pan should be about midway from top to bottom. So a tube or bundt pan would have to be on the lowest oven rack. A sheet cake, pies or cookies can be in the middle. The convection modes allow more freedom of food placement. That said, I'm old school and prefer regular baking for cakes, cupcakes & muffins. Don't despair.

Thanks very much everyone for your comments. charlyinfl, I especially appreciate your post since you have experience with the same oven.

I tried the pizza again, using lowest rack as before, but this time I put four 4/8 baking tiles on an upper rack to shield the pizza from the heat of the broil element. Although it's true that the broil element doesn't come on as intensely as it does during broiling, or preheating, it must have been enough to have an effect on the pizza. Also, which might be a factor, I was baking at 500 degrees.

This time the pizza was fine.

I made the Duncan Hines chocolate cake again, with about the same results (not using the tiles). In my previous Thermador oven the cake rose a little high in the middle, but not much. It was pretty even. With this oven it hardly rises at all at the corner, but more in the center. (anyone know what this indicates?) However, all in all it doesn't rise as well as it did in my old oven, and I've made it many times over the years. And it wasn't as light.

Since this oven was custom built-in, with a built-in micro/convect on top, I don't really have the option of returning it. I just hope using the tiles isn't going to damage it...maybe I should call Kitchenaid again and check with them.

Again I sincerely thank everyone for posting with help and advice. I'll write again in a few weeks when I've had a chance to try different things, and talked to Kitchenaid.

Carly

I just thought of something that might explain why charlyinfl and I have had different experiences with our KA ovens. Mine is the brand new model. We saw several older models in the showrooms we visited and we noticed that the broil elements are in a different position in the new model. The older model's outer broil element was very close to the sides of the oven (and hence wouldn't affect a cake placed in the center). In this new model the outer broil element is much closer to the center of the oven, which we thought was a good thing for broiling. Charylyinfl, do you think that could explain why you're happy with yours and I'm not?

Carly

Carly, my oven I believe is the latest version. It has the Cobalt blue oven interiors and all glass doors. You know, with each oven I've used through the years.....we've moved a lot; I think they each have their own personality!

Like I mentioned a good preheating of 20 to 25 minutes has always worked for me. Also, through the past few years I've replaced all my old dark color bakeware with Nordicware plain aluminum or Wilton plain aluminum bakeware. The exceptions would be specialty pieces. Like Bundt pans, loaf pans & pie plates. According to a friend who is a home economist, she states they give the best & most even & reliable baking results. I have to agree. I've rarely have a baking disappointment.

Sometimes, cake mixes can be funny. Although Duncan Hines always gives a great result. Pillsbury works well too. That said, a scratch yellow cake would probably be a good test of your oven. I have to admit to have only making a few frozen pizza's so far and they baked well. Maybe your oven it is just a bit to hot. Also weather can have an impact on the end result.

I did notice my new Kitchenaid oven has a reflective plate above the broiler where my previous 5 year old model did not. I don't recall the size of the coils in the old compared to the new. That said, I'm not seeing any great difference. This oven seems to be a few minutes faster than the other. However, not enough to cause any anxiety or recipe headaches.

Charly,

Here is a link that might be useful: nordicware bakeware

Carly, I looked at the Use and care guide last evening. I think the answer to your pizza dilemma in answered in the "Convection" bake section. It states that the convection element and the bake element are used during this mode. The broil element is only used during the preheat portion of this setting.

Hope this helps.

Charly

charlyinfl, I didn't use the convection mode for my pizza. But the result I got, using thermal bake at 500 degrees, was what I would have expected with the convection mode...all dried out on top and lightly browned...not how my pizza ever was before.

Well, it seems like we have the same oven...blue interior and large glass oven window. Have you yet tried to bake anything at a high temp, say 425 of higher? It think maybe at those settings the broil element might be on a lot more often, which could explain the results with the pizza.

I'm going to call Kitchenaid again tomorrow and try to speak to someone more knowledgeable than the snippy girl I spoke to last week(who had to put me on hold and ask someone else for the answers).

Carly,

BTW, yes I do use only light-colored aluminum pans for everything except pies and loaf pans...and pizza, of course.
For years I used a light-colored pie pan, and the crust were always a bit soggy on the bottom. When I switched to a dark pan, the results were much better. and an even better lower crust by placing the pan on the bottom rack. I haven't tried a pie in this new oven because it's so awfully hot here, and the oven really heats up the kitchen.

Carly, since our last correspondence, I've baked a sour cream pound cake, bread, pizza & raspberrie pie & roasted meat. So far so good on all accounts. Only the cake was baked on the standard bake cycle. Everything else on Convection.

For the pizza, it was a 16" round crust, I cheated and bought the prepared ball of dough from the bakery at the supermarket, topped it with cheese, chopped vegtables & pepperoni. I placed my baking stone on the middle rack, preheated the oven for 20 minutes or so at 450. I used a metal mesh pizza pan (like the pizzaria) that is placed atop the baking stone. The end result was an evenly browned crust, with cheese & topping nice and bubbly but not overdone.

C

Charlyinfl, I will try the pizza with the convection setting and a stone. I don't have metal mesh pizza pan, but I could put it directly on the stone with a paddle. I sure hope it works, 'cause we love pizza around here and there are so many kinds to make that are healthy, and easy. However, everything I've read says not to use convection for pizza, that it needs bottom heat. Maybe baking on the stone makes the difference with convection?

Was the top crust of your pie browner on top than you'd expect with a thermal oven? I can't wait to try a peach pie...but I will have to wait because it still very hot and humid here. I could use my micro-convect (because it was installed with a fan that vents to outside and doesn't heat up the kitchen), but it's the Kitchenaid oven that I'm anxious to experiment with, so I'll be patient and wait for cooler weather.

Carly

Carly, I know exactly what you are talking about. It is not a preheating issue. Mine was not a temp issue -- the thermostat was right on. It is a cycling issue, and it seems that some of the ovens get a faulty someting or another than has that broiler element cycling on as it is designed to do, but for longer or at a higher power than it should be. Keep pressing. Make them look at whatever it is that controls that cycle and the lower power setting during that cycling on and off -- the control panel, a regulator, a computer -- something is not right. I gave up on mine and figured out how to get around it, but you are making me wish I had pressed on. Other things got inthe way though. Hope you get yours resolved.

Carly, you know after reading the owners manual for my oven, it does not specifically call out a pizza for Convection baking, but it does speak to a number of baked item catagories that a pizza could fit into.

That said, according to the manual, when using Convection baking, during the preheat cycle.....the hidden bake, broil and convection element are active. Once the oven is up to temperature, the hidden bake and convection elements are active as needed to maintain the set temperature. So you see, there is no BROIL heat to overbrown your toppings!

Another thing I noticed is that once the oven is up to temperature, it seems to hold it very steady. I've been rather curious, so I stuck a oven thermometer on the middle rack and whatever the oven is set for, the thermometer reads with 10 degrees of that setting. For my oven its on the plus side. So I suspect this accounts for why it gets done a few minutes faster or at the minimum recipe bake time. Since things are coming out fine, I'm not going to adjust the control. Furthermore, I would hope that the digital sensors in the oven are more accurate that my grocery store oven thermometer. Bottom-line, I'm fine with it.

Have fun and I hope with more experimentation you'll find your oven is fine.

Charly

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchenaid oven owners guide