nanwall versus an anderson or marvin bi-fold door
housebuilder14
9 years ago
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millworkman
9 years agoRelated Discussions
We got our 'Lanai Door' installed!
Comments (31)Well If you are in the midst of a new project or doing a remodel there are other sources to consider, for example I was cruising Craigs list in the materials section and came across an add that was placed by an Architect who had to remove 3 sets of La Cantina Doors and windows from a project on the Texas coast, the La Cantina doors and windows were mistakenly purchased and spec with impact resistant glass instead of High impact resistant glass so they had to be removed and replaced with the correct glass type to meet Texas Wind Storm requirements, as a result I was able to pick up one of the 3 La Cantina doors the 21ft by 7ft set for a tenth of the cost La Cantina quoted me for the exact same door which was about $18000.00 , I picked the exact same door up with all the hardware and tracks for $2280.00 , so the point is take a look in your local paper,Greensheets and Craigs list and classifieds , you may just find the deal you are looking for .... P.S. I just check Craigs list again and low and behold I found another set with 8 panels each panel is 33 3/4" x 87 3/4" just the panels without the mounting tracks for $500.00 , i am picking them up in the morning!...See MoreWindows and Patio Doors (Bi-fold)
Comments (7)Marvin Ultimate is a wood frame rather than fiberglass. Its more expensive than Integrity overall and there are mixed signals about the longevity of cased wood windows versus fiberglass or vinyl. Marvin is as a whole is very highly regarded tho and they are the producer of both lines. The Ultimates have more customization options over fiberglass Integrity. There is just some things you can't easily do with fiberglass as compared to wood. For example, our home is going to have some gothic arch top windows. I couldn't get them in Integrity and had to again go Ultimate for those particular windows. And believe me, they aren't cheap (probably due to the custom gothic radius). But the outer colors coordinate between Ultimate and Integrity so it will hopefully be a flawless mix. Windows aren't installed just yet or I'd post pics. I wouldn't believe white painted interior on the wood ultrex would be any less clean looking than all ultrex assuming whoever is painting knows what they are doing. I'd definitely track down a showroom and compare the two lines side by side. With the Wood ultrex its just a more classic looking window profile I think. The all ultrex is quite plain and almost, I dunno, cheap looking in comparison. Its definitely the more durable option tho, no paint to scratch (although the fiberglass can be painted) or wood surface to ding... Its a judgement call for you really. The Ultimate sliders come in 4 panel yes, in 10, 12 and 16 feet wide it looks like straight out of the catalogue. OXXO configuration so the 2 middle sections open to form one opening and net clear openings here listed in my catalogue lead me to believe if both are open, there is no obstruction in the center. The 12' wide one has a net clear opening value of 57 7/16" (or 59 for the non french door) The ultimate sliders have 2 versions..basic patio door and french door. The french door version has wider rails framing the glass, to mimic the look of a french door. The basic version has more glass area and thinner rails so if you go that route make sure you choose the model you prefer To throw more choices your way they do also have these in 3 panel like the integrity but in greater widths. I see here a 12' three panel as well if you just want one active slider but a little wider than the 3foot operator of the 9 wide integrity..lol What you should be looking for to find out how drafty these types of doors are in order to compare them to each other is air infiltration values. Unfortunately with Marvin these can be a bit of a hassle to come by but you could take numbers from a similar manufacturers slider and compare it to your lanai or bifold doors to maybe get a rough idea....See MoreWindow replacement: sash kits? Bi-glass?
Comments (35)There is also information available in the National Parks Service Preservation Briefs about windows and many other aspects of preservation. I never discouraged anyone from changing their windows if there are no guidelines in their district for doing that. Actually I think lots of good information has been provided here by homeowners who are not working in the preservation business and speak from personal experience in either keeping or replacing windows. My frustration comes from people who buy homes in our historic district because they love the charm the guidelines have maintained and then decide they need to change protected aspects. No one has forced them to choose to live here. Appropriate energy efficient windows are not inexpensive. Anyone living here may choose to have those windows. Most requests here are for inappropriate windows and cost is the argument given. Shortsightedness at the time of purchase is not a justification here. We all "LIVE" in our homes and I would like to belie the insinuation that those of us who choose to maintain the architecture, including windows, are living in a "museum". That may be your perspective, but it is not my experience. Oberon works in the window industry. He provides lots of useful information and his opinion is valued. Many of us who choose to practice preservation are responding from personal experience and the outcomes we have had. In my neighborhood, there are guidelines for preservation and it has been proven to increase property values in this historic district. There are larger studies with similar quantified results. Most homes are under contract in less than two weeks. Therefore, it seems Oberon and I each have positve financial reinforcment for our opinions. I will not deny that my decisions also have an aesthetic factor. For those of you expressing concern for the environment I need you to know that by living in town and being able to walk to most destinations means I use less than one tank of gas a month. I also do not have air conditioning. I open my energy inefficient windows when it is warm. Imagine how much energy that would conserve if everyone did that. My point is moot for many because it is not realistic that the majority of people can, or are willing, to do that. I have noticed that brownouts and blackouts occur more during hot summer months than at any other time of the year. Is air conditioning and that comfort level also a drain on power? I don't have figures for how many less power plants the elimination of air conditining would result in. But, brownouts would seem to suggest use during hot weather does strain those resources. If we are truly concerned about energy consumption we should all get new windows and eliminate, or restict, air conditioning. There will always be some compromise. Comfort level is very individual. Windows are only one source of lead paint in older homes. I'm sure I'll be corrected, but the greatest issue with lead and windows is in the areas where there is any rubbing that could produce dust from the paint. Flaking paint on any surface should be a concern and abated or encapsulated especially if you have, or plan to have, children. If lead paint is the only concern with windows, the rub areas can be stripped and therefore eliminate the dust caused by the friction of opening and closing windows. Or, new tracks can be installed and the weight pockets can be insulated at the same time. Booksat makes a good point in taking into consideration many energy consumption aspects of older homes. Energy audits have been suggested a number of times on this forum. Windows are one aspect of loss and there are many ways to increase R-values in homes and windows. Window Guy is also in the window industry. He is sensitive to the window needs of historic districts and energy efficiency. I hope he will join this discussion to explain that you can maintain both aspects. Solutions may require compromise, but they should not be viewed at an either/or decision based on emotion. Also, energy conservation is multifaceted in older homes and in general consumption practices. If you are truly concerned about energy please look at all aspects of personal consumption. I agree that this is a sometimes emotional discussion. People on this forum will tend to lean toward conservation. Many would not have purchased older homes or participate on this forum if they did not like the qualities those homes possess. You will find lots of information about replacement windows on the Window Forum. Oberon an others involved in the window industry also offer their advice about new windows on that forum. We all have our passions....See MoreOkna or Sunrise versus Andersen or Marvin
Comments (26)Please tell me what other aspects that I "side-stepped"? You posted about IGU failures and I posted the warranties relative to that from Andersen and the manufacturer (Okna) that you reference in your link back to another forum. The 20 year or lifetime reference was something that you pointed out. What am I missing? Do you wish to read the entire warranty? Here it is: Vinyl Frame And Sash Members The vinyl extrusions and vinyl components used in the windows and doors are warranted to be free from defects that might result in blistering, peeling, flaking, corroding, and fading of the window or door for as long as you own your home. This war- ranty is fully transferable to the next homeowner. Factory painted standard or custom colors are warranted for a period of ten years. Insulated Glass OKNA Windows Corp. warrants that the insulated glass units, including internal grids, will be free from obstruction between the glass, including film formation, including moisture on the internal glass surfaces caused by seal failure and including small marks, dust, and scratches. This Warranty is fully transferable to the next homeowner and covers glass imperfections as de- scribed in Federal Government Glass Specification DD-04516. Condensation may occur on interior and exterior of windows as a natural result of humidity within the house or build- ing area and changes in outside/inside temperature. This does not indicate a manufacturing defect and would not be included in this Warranty. Hardware OKNA Windows Corp. warrants that the hardware shall remain in good operating condition, for as long as you own your home. Warranty on hardware is also fully transferable to the next homeowner. Specified Metal hardware for coastal applications is limited to a ten year warranty. Exclusions and Limitations The following are excluded from coverage under this Warranty: A. Any damage caused by wind, hail, lightning or other acts of God, intentional acts, accidents, negligence, or exposure to harmful chemicals or pollutants. This warranty excludes damage related to harsh or corrosive cleaning products, application of paints ( non factory applied ), and uniform fading or color change due to weathering. B. Any damage or malfunction caused by improper handling or installation of the windows, or any damage to the windows or components of the windows caused by settlement or structural defects of the building in which they are installed. C. Any defect, malfunction or failure to perform, which has occurred because of unreasonable use, improper application or failure to perform reasonable or necessary mainte- nance - see section " Maintenance & Cleaning." D. Any window, which has been repaired or attempted to have been repaired or modified by any person other than an authorized representative of OKNA Windows Corp. E. OKNA Windows Corp. liability is limited solely and exclusively to repair or replace, at the discretion of OKNA Windows Corp. and under no circumstances will OKNA Windows Corp. be liable for incidental or consequential charges such as, but not limited to, labor cost for any purpose, inconvenience, damage, or injury to persons or to property or any other expense. Procedure And Conditions Of Warranty Remedy The Owner must notify the Dealer/Distributor within thirty days after the defect has first appeared. OKNA reserves the right to inspect any window or door that a warranty claim has been made. Such notification must contain the following: A � Name and Address of the Owner. B � Date of Installation. C � Description of the Defect. If a product meets requirements of this limited warranty, OKNA Windows will at its option, supply replacement parts or product. Labor or reinstallation costs are not covered by this limited warranty. Commercial Application OKNA products installed in a building operated as a multi-family dwelling or used for commercial purposes or rental properties such as schools, churches, apartment complexes, government owned structures, etc. will limit this Warranty to ten years. Product Changes OKNA Windows Corp. reserves the right to discontinue or change any of its products or the parts utilized in any of its products at its sole discretion. If any window product or component originally installed in the building is not available at the time of any claim by you under this Warranty, OKNA Windows Corp. reserves the right to substitute any other model or component as a replacement. During warranty period replacement parts will be supplied at no charge to dealer upon return of defective part. Maintenance & Cleaning A mild solution of household cleaner such as liquid dishwashing detergent may be used to clean windows. Do not use harsh abrasives. This Warranty shall be null and void if harmful solvents are used. You are referencing "pressure equalization" and I reference that in the other post that you made. What additional scientific developments do you think need to happen. Is the fenestration industry going to "UN-INVENT" the law of partial pressures? There is no development needed in "pressure equalization" just better and better sealants and gas impermeable sealants to whatever the inert gas fill is. Andersen learned a valuable lesson with this and did a fine job of warrantying items after the fact when it was discovered that their IGU were gas fill permeable but impermeable to the larger molecules of atmospheric air. There is not much science to develop here. While vacuum IGUs are interesting and exciting developments, they are several years away from reaching mass distribution and acceptance. If you think that gas permeability presents challenges, vacuum presents far more challenges. Temperature shifts do present sealing issues to IGUs but if we can make sure the windows inside pressurized airplanes and vehicles that go outside the earth's atmosphere stay together, something in Desert Valley doesn't seem that tough. In applications where windows go above a certain altitude, breather tubes are inserted for equalization if they are not made near said altitude. The are certain aspects of the window industry that are pretty tried and true and I am not sure you layman's review of their cycle testing is accurate or based in any observable fact. I have been through several factory were they life cycle test these materials and they are comprehensive to say the least. No laboratory can ever truly duplicate a real world environment but they compensate for this most times by making the extremes more extreme to simulate worst case scenarios. The engineers at Pella, Andersen, and Cardinal would probably take umbrage with your less than factually vetted review of their testing and materials developments. Do they have failure rates, surely. This is why you get a warranty. Even in those situations where materials are manufacturer robotically, there is a human hand and potential for error at any number of locations in the process....See MoreBrian_Knight
9 years agomillworkman
9 years agoAishaHansia
9 years agomillworkman
9 years agomrspete
9 years ago
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