maire cate- Well the Cascade Complete (gel), which I filled to the first line, cleaned everything beautifully. However, my tea mugs- the ones where I leave the tea bag in for a ridiculous amount of time 'til they're stained to the gills, looked just the same as when I put them in. The Elec/Finish tabs always cleaned the staining from the cups completely.

The dishes, cups, glasses and and all but some of the silverware were bone dry (I am using the heated dry option)...although the top of the silverware basket portion of the DW stays very wet even after drying cycle- as do some other areas of the DW. The plastic containers and 2 small nonstick pots were soaking wet and the pots looked like they were on their way to white spotting had I left them in the DW overnight. As an aside, the silverware basket for this DW is a horrible design.

In general, I am truly disappointed in this dishwasher.

Is there anything besides TSPP that I can add to the Cascade Complete to make the cups come out clean?

One suggestion, try using Cascade Complete powder. I've heard that gel can clog dishwashers and that most manufacturers recommend powder. I use Cascade Complete but still have a bunch of the old stuff left but I'm not looking forward to trying out the phosphate-free version.

Liquid detergents typically don't contain bleach or their bleach is weaker - that could be the reason why the tea stain wasn't removed. Powder usually does a better job in dishwashers and washing machines, too.

I don't know if I can believe that one tab or pouch of detergent is too much... I have a true European dishwasher at home (since I live in GER) and it probably uses half as much water as your GE. Still, one Finish tab or one Cascade pouch never caused white spots on anything. As a matter of fact, too little detergent can lead to a nasty grease built-up inside a dishwasher over time. This happened to me and we eventually had to toss our dishwasher after ten years because the stench got so bad that nothing would remove it. Now, with our fabulous Bosch dishwasher, I use about one teaspoon of powder for the pre-wash and one to two tablespoons for the main wash. The water is soft - because the DW has its own softener in it.

Sorry I don't have *the* solution but here's a long thread about the new detergents.

Alex

Karen - I agree the Electrosol finish does a great job of removing coffee or tea stains. I have a Nissan Thermos coffee carafe with a stainless interior and after several weeks of daily use the stainless does get stained. I would drop 1/2 tablet of Electrosol Finish inside and pour boiling water in to dissolve it. It removed the stains completely. The Cascade never removed all the stains - either it left blotchy dark marks or an overall brown stain.

We're both in New Jersey so we're probably purchasing the same formula. I can easily see why you're so disappointed.

I use the Cascade Complete Gel with "hydroclean bleach". The next time you buy Jet Dry try the Turbo in the red bottle. It was a BIG difference to me in drying. One thing you could do for the mugs is while they are sitting in the sink spray them inside with a little Clorox Clean-Up or just water and bleach that you fix at home and add to a spray bottle. This way when you load you are sure they will be stain free plus if you just use the bleach/water spray there is no chance of suds which might happen with the CC-Up. Also Sani Rinse will improve your drying. It will just take a while to work the bugs out of the GE. Like I said before, when I first got the KM Elite I hated it but I adjusted to it and have liked it ok, but I would NOT buy another one. If you still have time and really are dissatisfied, I would just see if they would let me exchange it for something else.

DID WE REALLY NEED SPAM ON THIS THREAD?????? HOW CAN THE PREVIOUS POST BE REMOVED?

Anyway, whether it is any part of the problem or not, I have called three water-conditioning companies for estimates. We are going to have a water softener installed. Our water is considered by some to be "borderline hard," having approximately 8-9 gpg of hardness. It does cause us some ongoing problems in general.

I guess I'm better off with powder rather than gel after what I've read, so I will try the powder next. Are there any brands that have a powder formula with a bleaching agent?

Speaking of your tea cups that were stained not coming off........This is a similar experience I had back in early July when I purchased a new box of Cascade Complete powder and ran the dishes as usual but noticed that there were still faded wine stains on the dishwasher door from red wine and that NEVER happened before...This is what inspired me to immediately get the box of Cascade Complete powder to see if it was phosphate free and it was........So I started adding a tbs of STPP to the powder and the wine stains were gone from the door.

mark....well, I don't know if I did the right thing, but I was at the supermarket earlier and I bought "Finish Glass Magic," which is "not more than 21% phosphorous in the form of phosphates." (YIKES!!) I have read where other people used it and have great results. Right on the box it says "Hard water performance booster." It has about 2.3 grams of phosphates per tablespoon. Well, when I run my next DW load with 1/2 Electrasol/Finish tab crushed (which has phosphates), I won't use the Glass Magic. If I get the Cascade Complete powder, then I will use the Glass Magic. Is the Glass Magic similar to STPP? If anyone has used the Glass Magic, how have you used it?

It still boggles my mind that I had no trouble whatsoever with my older Kenmore Elite using the same water and the same Electasol tablets only 2 1/2 or so weeks ago....near-perfect results every time and never any white spotting.

Your older dishwasher may have used a lot more water during the wash. Isn't it great how the government makes all these regulations to improve our lives :-(

weissman...I thought of that. But if that's the case, then even with an additional rinse or more of the same water, the water would still be hard. Nothing would change that. So why would more water make any difference? This is a question that I've asked myself.

I don't know - maybe more water would rinse off the white stuff that's ending up on your dishes - just a thought. Have you tried running the pot scrubber cycle with extra heat - does that make a difference?

Well, here's an update. First, I decided to try the Cascade gel pack with Dawn that came with the dishwasher. To this, I added some Glass Magic, but less than the recommended amount. WOAH!! I never knew that stainless steel items could glisten! There was no spotting on the glasses at all, and very good overall cleaning. I did not pre-rinse anything. However, I still had one pot that was relatively wet on the inside, and I can't understand why the silverware basket stays so wet on the outside (even though the silverware is dry). Of course my plastics were wet. I only saw white spotting on the inside of the wet pot where some of the water drops had apparently dried.

Much better results using Glass Magic ("hard water booster") may indicate that my hard water, which has now been tested at 9-10 gpg hardness, may be affecting how the GE works, even though it didn't affect my old Kenmore Elite. If it isn't that, then I probably just have an expensive POS dishwasher!!

Whether this helps or not, we 'signed on the dotted line' to finally have a water softener installed. We've needed it for the past 13 years anyway. It will be interesting to see if that makes a difference in the DW's cleaning & drying ability- and whether or not there will be as much spotting. I hope that the results of this expensive experiment will ultimately help out others!

Karen

Glass magic is BASICALLY STPP if it has that much phosphorous content in it. If you have Hard water. It is a MUST to have but you don't need much.....Most of the detergents that are phosphate free are LOADED with enzymes to help in cleaning, so adding some STPP (glass magic) along with your phosphate free enzyme powder should give you superior results. But whatever you do, don't pre rinse. Those enzymes need something to attack! If no food is present, it will start attacking the dishes (etching). Phosphates alone won't clean dishes, but it helps the detergent work better. That said, I NEVER had good luck with Finish tabs (EVER) even though they had phosphates, I don't know why they didn't work. Cascade or Walmart powder worked BEST for me (when they had phosphates)

I do know if you use the Pots/pans cycle on dishwashers they usually will add an additional rinse.

This thread has turned from comments on the GE dishwasher to soap comments. I checked and we are using the phosphate free Finish tabs and they are working well in our old Maytag. Of course our water is from the Columbia river and is quite soft.

nerdyshopper: I think it is a combination of both. It would be quite easy for me to continue with a highly negative review of my GE Profile, but until I explore various detergents, heated vs. unheated cycles, hard vs. soft water, etc., the review would probably not be fair. That being said, after spending a considerable sum, I had this silly idea that I would be able to just load my dishes, put in detergent, push the button, and everything would be clean and dry. What the h*ll was I thinking??

Well, you were probably expecting it to work just like all appliances used to work right out of the box. That was before the global economy drove US business firms half way into the ground and government regulations did the rest of the job. I am really scared when regular posters at this forum think ti is normal to pay thousands of dollars for what we paid hundreds. I'm retired on a fixed income and those bucks don't come that easily.

nerdy, my then top-of-the-line K. Elite cost less than $500 WITH tax in 2000! My husband and I are still both working and making money, but it still feels really lousy to shell out so much for an appliance!!

I think I figured out the biggest problem with my GE Profile. I do think it cleans well enough, especially with the tweaks- no real problems there. However, because of the high cost and that it is allegedly "top of the line," I don't want to find soaking wet plastics, soaking wet plastic tub parts (including the spray arms & silverware basket), water spots, nor have a silverware basket handle that's turned out to be a completely ridiculous design. My sister is not having any problems like this with her new Bosch. Outside of a different style silverware basket, the only real difference is that she has soft water and right now I don't. However, I have a feeling that this Profile is just not as good as the Bosch, plain and simple.

Look back at all the posts about people who complain about their Bosch machines, dripping wet dishes, interior smelling, even not cleaning so I think that goes with all makes of them today. I would definatley try the Turbo Jet Dry and see if that helps. I could tell a difference between it and the regular back when my rinse aid dispenser worked. That just might help your "wet plastic/interior parts" problem. You know we have to try everything, then just end up "making do" with what we have. LOL I would also try the Sani Rinse to see if this helps with drying. I do know with my KM Elite, on the Normal cycle, it heats the last rinse to 140 degrees, which your KM probably did the same thing. This GE probably doesnt do that and this may be the difference in the drying. Also when we (you and I) bought our KM's they were not(at least mine isnt) rated Energy Star whereas this GE is, meaning less heat/water. I hope you get better results after you get your softening system installed.

Also, what number do you have your rinse dispenser on now?

I think it is a combination of both. It would be quite easy for me to continue with a highly negative review of my GE Profile, but until I explore various detergents, heated vs. unheated cycles, hard vs. soft water, etc., the review would probably not be fair. That being said, after spending a considerable sum, I had this silly idea that I would be able to just load my dishes, put in detergent, push the button, and everything would be clean and dry. What the h*ll was I thinking??

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know!!!!!

I would not buy a GE dishwasher. They burned a lot of customers a few years ago, as in fire. Then they did not want to admit to a problem. I would say the Whirlpool/KitchenAid is a nice choice.

Well, today is the day of the water softener install. I don't expect any major differences in the dishwasher's performance, but I'm sure looking forward to not having "crust" around spilled water on my countertop and around my faucets, etc.

For the record, as long as I use "heated wash" and "heated dry," this dishwasher actually cleans very well regardless of detergent type or amount. The plastics and plastic parts of the tub (including silverware basket) still don't dry well or at all, and that drives me batty...and I still have white spots on my plastics and nonstick items (less now, especially on nonstick, but still enough to bug me). I had the best results so far using a CRUSHED Electrosol/Finish tab (with phosphates, unfortunately).

I still can't help but wonder what it would have been like with the newest line of Bosch.

I had read on another forum where someone had tried the Finish Gelpacs non phosphate and how well they did, so I decided to also try them. I am very impressed. Clean very well especially for the no phosphate detergent. They are worth trying, at least in my water, they work well.

I am keeping fingers crossed.
I am buying house and builder is going to provide basic dishwasher which I don't want. They are not ready to give credit back. The best dishwasher they have is as as yours GE profile PDWT580RSS for $1200. If I combine with package i.e. electric range PGB910SS for $1200 and microwave PVM1870SS for $485 the overall price seems to be decent. As no tax / no installation / no delivery charges also with 2 year warranty. So I am thinking is good buy. Only thing is the dishwasher. As you say it cleans well, it should be good. But still interested in this post and want to see how it goes.

GE Profile vs Bosch thread - can be useful

Just found couples of comments on other thread - Sorry if I am not supposed to copy paste -

Dishwasher recommendations???

clip this post email this post what is this?
see most clipped and recent clippings

* Posted by gini2 (My Page) on
Thu, Feb 4, 10 at 8:54

Warmfridge, You might wish to consider GE Profile. I recently traded in my 7 yr old top of the line Bosch for the Profile. It has a much better rack system than the Bosch, including "large bowl" movable tines. It isn't quite as quiet as the Bosch, even though the Bosch was rated at 46 decibels and the Profile at 47 decibels. It cleans much better than the Bosch and has a much sturdier feel. Can't report on reliability as I've only had it for about 2 weeks but I have had no problems into a year with my Profile double oven range, FL washer/dryer and fridge.

Here is a link that might be useful: GE Profile Dishwasher PDWT580RSS

Karenlee, I don't think it's realistic to expect any dishwasher to work well with hard water (unless it has a built-in water softener).

You could buy the world's most expensive car but if you give it dirty gasoline, it's not going to work well.

majeha....Problem is, my 10-year-old Kenmore Elite worked much much better with the same water, same detergent, and same location. So to what should I attribute the difference? The water did not become more hard in the week that I was without a dishwasher.

karenlee56 , So did you get the water softner installed ? How does the dishwasher wash now ? Any improvement ? Are you going to keep this dishwasher or replace with bosch

cricket...The dishwasher was installed this past Thursday. The first load I did on Friday was no different, but I was told that I had to wait a few days until the water heater refilled with the softened water. I just ran my second load since the softener a while ago (this is Monday). I peeked in and pulled out some cups and plastics that have depressions to get the major water out, and I gave a quick dry to the spray arms. Those arms are made of plastic as most of them are now, and they stay loaded with water. I just don't get that at all!

I will report back tomorrow after I let the load sit in the dishwasher tonight.

Have you tried turning the rinse aid dispenser number up higher since you last changed it? Also, again, don't mean to harp on this but try the Turbo Jet Dry. What do you have to lose, except maybe wet dishes/wash arms. For me, I could tell the Turbo version works faster/better.

cricket...well, there was a definite improvement with the softened water as far as the white spots go. I still had some on a nonstick pan, but they were much smaller and lighter than the previous medium-sized thick white spots. The plastics that I got out excess water and put back in all dried just about completely spot-free. Actually, that might have been my 3rd load since the softenener was installed...I've forgotten.

sparky...I had previously opened up the rinse-aid dispenser even more. I won't use the Turbo stuff yet, because I had just filled it to capacity with the regular Jet Dry when I got the DW. Emptying it out is quite a hassle.

Biggest problem now is how soaking wet and full of water the spray arms (especially the top one) remain. It just isn't normal. Those things should spin so fast that no water would be able to stay on them. Because of this, when I pull out the top rack at the end of the cycle, the water falls all over the dried items on the bottom. I also can't understand why the silverware basket stays so wet. The silverware itself dries pretty much completely (except for some of the silverware's bottoms) but it irks me because when I take it out, water drips off of it or wets what I put it on. So...here is what I'm doing:

First, my water softener company is coming to do an 'after' water test. They will quickly assess that the system is functioning properly, and make sure that the water is soft or soft enough.
Second, I am having GE come to check out the DW and make sure that the spray arms are functioning properly and try to find out why so much water remains even after heated wash and heated dry.

Question: HAVE I DONE ENOUGH TO GET THIS DISHWASHER WORKING AS WELL AS IT SHOULD????? Sigh... I have been keeping a log so that if I argue with Home Depot to take it back, they will know that I tried everything within reason (and beyond) to get the results that I should for the price.

Biggest problem now is how soaking wet and full of water the spray arms (especially the top one) remain. It just isn't normal. Those things should spin so fast that no water would be able to stay on them. Because of this, when I pull out the top rack at the end of the cycle, the water falls all over the dried items on the bottom.1. The spray arms don't spin as fast as you apparently believe. It's normal for some water to remain in the arms.

2. Unload the lower rack first.

Dadoes said:
"1. The spray arms don't spin as fast as you apparently believe.� It's normal for some water to remain in the arms.
2. Unload the lower rack first."

1. Again in comparison, my other DW never left ANY water, let alone water sitting all over the top of the arm in puddles. I sure wouldn't expect a top-of-the-line machine to do that.
2. I've tried. Just the vibration alone was enough to shake the upper arm's water loose. I shouldn't have to baby this thing!

OH...and for the record...my sister's brand new Bosch that's been blowing this GE out of the water? I received a frustrated-sounding text tonight that it wasn't draining!!

Keep in mind that this isn't your "other" dishwasher. :-)  This is a new/different machine that will have different characteristics. It isn't realistic to expect your previous and new machines to be identical in every operational nuance.

I'm not understanding why you consider it a problem if some water drips off the arm under the upper rack while the lower rack is rolled fully out for unloading. The dishes in the lower rack shouldn't get wet in that scenario, and any water that drips off the arm is clean water from the final rinse and surely won't hurt anything if it runs down into the tub/pump.

My dishwasher (which BTW, I paid $1,400 for it 7 years ago) leaves a bit of water pooled on the edge of the tub, on the silverware basket, and on most plastic items unless left open for a day or so to dry fully, or I simply swipe a cloth over it ... and that is using rinse aid. Non-stick skillets typically have some water spots, my understanding is that's a normal characteristic of the non-stick finish. It doesn't ruin my day. :-)  Actually, the usual recommendation is that while non-stick items can be machine-washed, the strong detergent may "overclean" the finish and it should be reseasoned with a very light treatment of vegetable oil.

What with all the agonizing you're doing over this new dishwasher, maybe you would have been happier repairing and keeping your Kenmore?

Sorry, joining the party late!

Just wanted to say that I had the same problem with the white residue with my brand new Bosch. It got to the point that the entire inside of the DW had this thick white stuff on it. Finally, after reading about it on this board, I tried a little Lemi-Shine powder in the dispenser with a Cascade complete and it looks like it did the day they installed it! My dishes are clean- even the stained plastic tea pitcher and my black pots and pans- no white dots.
I highly recommened trying it- it's in the DW detergent aisle. Good luck!!

I know it's not the same issue you are having but a close family member purchased a GE Profile dishwasher 7 months ago and they've had nothing but issues with the soap dispenser not opening.

3 repairmen later - still having issues.

Now that I'm in the market for a new machine - I have been strongly advised (obviously)to steer clear of GE's.

Karenlee56, I have posted several times on this thread. I hope you can be happy with your new machine, in spite of the fact that it cost a lot and is no match for your old one. I don't think anyone can doubt that they don't really make them like they used to, in spite of a few posters that think it is unreasonable to expect them to. I will also add that I wish you had taken the opportunity to return the darned thing instead of trying everything under the sun to make it work. If you are going to stick with it I second the post by angel411 recommending Lemi Shine. I got some from WalMart and it seems to do a good job and is very cheap.

Well, this will be my last post about this dishwasher!

As you all may be able to tell, I have some OCD tendencies...LOL. I don't give up easily on anything, and this DW was no exception.

First, to Cricket_phx...I forgot to tell you when you said you were quoted $1200 for the same model that I have, that after some price-matching and energy star rebates, I got the DW, installation, haul away of old DW, 4-yr. extended warranty, installation kit, plus one-yr interest-free for under $1200.

Sparky...you were right in one of your earlier posts. Now I understand the new breed of DW's better. The GE repair guy said that the plastic components will stay wet because the heated cycle isn't as hot as the old days of our Kenmore Elites. I didn't know that. I thought that just the quantity of water used was different for the Energy Star rating. He said that this model dries better than any of GE's others, and most other DW's out there today. There is nothing physically wrong with mine.

Angel411...I assume your Lemi-Shine adds phosphates, which really seem to help for hard water. That is why I bought Glass Magic, but now that I have soft water, I don't need it! Everything comes out extremely clean with just the Cascade Complete powder.

Dadoes....The repair guy saw how much water remained on and around the silverware basket and it was enough to make him test a few things. He did say the water on the arms was normal (and added "unfortunately"). I'm sorry, but a soaking wet silverware holder, wet bottoms on the silverware and water splattering onto other dried items from above p*sses me off to no end. Yes...it IS a big deal to me. If I was a retired person, maybe it wouldn't bother me as much, but I work all day and don't want to dry everything in the DW. Repairing the old one? As I had said, I never would have fixed a 10-yr-old appliance anything, so that was never an option.

nerdyshopper....no problem. I now know beyond any reasonable doubt that 'they don't make them like they used to.' Sometimes it is difficult to accept that. I'm just old-fashioned at heart, I guess.

Also, our water tested to a 3 gpg hardness level as compared with our pre-water softener test of 9-10 gpg. I will have them adjust it to make the water slightly softer for a few reasons- not only DW related. The repair guy also opened up the rinse aid dispenser even more. He also said that GE's are dependable and that I will probably never have a problem with it. Hope so because I'm keeping it.

Thanks again to everyone who gave advice, let me vent, and finally basically told me to just get used to it. Your annoyance came through loud and clear!

I just hope that my log of events will help others when they are either searching for a new dishwasher or questioning why their new one is not working as expected. Oh...and I will say it one more time because it is worth repeating: My poor sister's few-week-old near top-of-the-line Bosch IS NOT DRAINING. It is the same model that I would have purchased instead of the GE. She is waiting for service. Welcome to the world of new and expensive appliances.

Karen, I hope you read this. We install and service appliances. It is not unusual for new dishwashers to be very wet and drippy during the first few weeks of use. All brands! The plastics in the machine will gradually become conditioned by the water, dertergent and rinse aid. In time, your machine will be much drier at the end of the cycle. Especially so if you leave it closed for several hours to overnight. It is true, the drying heat is less to save energy, but with time you'll see the drying results will be nearly as good as your old energy wasting machine. Make sure you use rinse and yes the new Turbo rinse aid helps a lot. Either way, be patient.

Look at it this way, you've got a new member of the family and you are getting used to its unique differences!

dixiedarlin1: Thanks to a Blackberry with email, I did read your post. Thank you for the information!! I look forward to the newest member of the family learning how to dry dishes! :o)

I just thought I would chime in. Before I got my house, for whom the builder only offered GE appliances, with all the negativity about GE in here I was pretty worried. Well, what can I say - I think the meme that you only hear the negative on forums like this is pretty much confirmed. I have all GE Profile appliances - Side by Side fridge, double convection wall oven (the Alton Brown inspired with the speedcook/microwave assist in the upper oven), gas cooktop (with horrible downdraft - whoever thought downdraft on a stove was a good idea needs to be shot) and of course a GE Profile dishwasher. Model PDW8800J10CC to be exact. (CC - yup, Bisque - don't care for SS, White and black - guess I'll have to live with these for a long time). I've been in my house since 2005 and no issues. So much for GE appliances being universal crap...

The dishwasher has been fantastic. Yes, there was a little spotting for the first month or so, but that's normal - it even states it in the manual. The thing is whisper quite - I have a very open concept house - the kitchen/breakfast nook and family room are all open. I can see the TV in my family room from just about anywhere in my kitchen, but I don't hear the dishwasher. Indeed, it took me a couple of months to figure out which appliance the end of cycle beep was coming from - the thing was so quite I would forget I had started it! At first I thought the countdown timer on the front was a little gimmicky, but it has come in handy on more than one occasion.

Yes, I'm sure there are many who have had good experience from Bosche, Meile and other "high end' brands - but I don't think you have to go to them to get a good experience. Indeed, you can search theses forums and find plenty of horror stories about faulty electronics and finicky sensors in those brands. I do know if I ever do have a problem with my GE appliances, the parts will be plentiful, cheap, and readily available - as were the technical and repair manuals.

The only problem I had on my dishwasher was the front touch panel. One of the buttons was sticking and to get it to respond I would have to flip the circuit breaker to reset the thing to get it to respond. I research the issue and found that the front panel did have this problem for a few people, that it was $90 and about the time I was going to finally get around to ordering it to swap it out - it fixed itself! I love those kinds of problems :)

My only complaint is that the darn fridge has turned out to be so reliable. I really don't care for side by side fridges. I would love to replace it with a double door freezer on the bottom. Oh well, we can't have everything!

I too loved my GE Profile dishwasher. That is until the one time it burned my hands and almost started a fire in my kitchen. It cleans great, is really quiet, and I love the layout of the racks. Now we only run it when we're going to be home and awake to make sure the heating element shuts off after it's done (and to flip the breaker if it doesn't). No running it before I go to bed or before I head out to run errands. Hence, why I'm here researching a replacement for it. It hasn't happened again yet, but it only takes one time to burn down your home. They won't recall mine even though it's the exact same problem as the recalled ones. Mine is newer than the recalled ones (2007), so I don't trust that they resolved the problem.

I'm reading this thread because I need to replace my bosch dw (its 5 yo). I hated it from the beginning. it doesnt really clean well unless we prerinse, it doesnt dry well. but because its really really quiet we chose to live with it. until the control panel stopped working. dh opened it up to figure out the problem and even I could diagnose it. everything's made of plastic in there! and after a few years, plastic gets brittle and everything was cracked.
and dont get me started on the smell....we are constantly cleaning out the thing and even so, my kids ask me not to open it if they are in the room. it got to the point where it was just easier for me to wash the dishes by hand than to clean the dw.
was hoping to hear a stellar report on the GE, instead I've learned to lower my DW expectations. disappointing.

granolamom did you end up getting the GE? I was considering it since its the only "high end" model that has a disposal.

TonySak- I'm going to chime back in here since I started the thread, and although I can't believe it, it has been almost a year since I've had the dishwasher!

This dishwasher rarely cleaned right for me, and oftentimes, cleaned even worse on the top rack. There were many times when I have had to hand wash much of what was on top. It has appeared to get worse over time.

First, as dixiedarlin1 said, the dishwasher is much drier now, and has been for a long time. I still use the heated dry cycle. The soppy days are gone.

Second, I have had GE service personnel over twice, once primarily for the soppiness, and also for the sporadic cleaning. I use ONLY Cascade with Dawn action pacs now, and they work almost flawlessly WHEN the dishwasher decides to clean. The second very recent GE call was for the worsening washing action on the top rack. NOTHING was coming clean, and small particles were dried all over all my glasses and plates (despite the Cascade).
ANSWER: (believe it or not)... When GE shipped these dishwashers (model PDWT580RSS), they apparently omitted an O-ring ("gasket") from the back of the top rack tube that makes a seal against the back wall tube where the water comes in and goes through the top of the DW. There was a recess where the O-ring should be, but no O-ring. That O-ring apparently provides the seal and ensuing pressure needed to really blast that water up around the top rack. Boy was I skeptical!!! I thought they were crazy when they told me that was most likely the problem. Well lo and behold, the parts came to the house and I took it upon myself to open up the O-ring and put it on myself. Well, I feel like I have a new dishwasher. I don't think it was just a coincidence. I have washed 5 loads successfully since installing that skinny little ring. The silverware doesn't usually come out perfect...always at least 2 or 3 pieces that need to be rewashed...but the difference is the top rack washing is remarkable.

This doesn't change the fact that I still feel that the silverware basket was a terrible design, and the tines on the racks are terribly spaced, making many items (especially cereal and soup bowls) continually fall over. It has been maddening, to say the least.

The GE company, however, has been WONDERFUL. Due to what I've gone through with my DW, they have extended my warranty by one full year for free.

All things considered, I would never buy another GE dishwasher, although I realize that there are complaints with every manufacturer's dishwashers. I've just gone through too much with this one. My sister is still thrilled with her Bosch; never had a moment's problem with it- except when the water wouldn't drain and it turned out it wasn't her DW...it was the pipes. Who knows? Maybe she just got lucky with the Bosch.

Thanks for the update.

I head the auto dispense on the GE would always use to much detergent. The bosch units don't have membrane pads which often fail, so thats a plus for me. I also heard the way the GE vents steam into the cabinet area of the unit which can cause mold issues.

I think i'll end up going with bosch and just cleaning the filters. it seems like a safer bet. I have to get 2 dishwashers so the last thing i want is 2 lemons. thanks again for chiming back in.

I have been an automotive technician for 16 years, and a teacher of automotive technology for 18 years... I recently found out the hard way with an expensive LG dishwasher that self destructed after 1 year and 20 days... that quality is in the mechanical details.. not the sound level, or how many different cycles a machine has. A small chip if glass no larger than an eith of an inch happily flowed through the sump holes in the bottom of the dishwasher, and directly into the pump motor and motor housing assembly.. The motor and housing were destroyed, and to repair this was more than half the value of the dishwasher!.. So ANY dishwasher that would not pre-filter the sump area to prevent this damage is junk. I just bought the GE profile series because it was the only machine I found with an acceptable pre-screen set up to catch a broken piece of glass, and still be somewhat affordable. Imagine an expensive car with no fuel filter.. every time a small bit of debri entered the fuel system, you would owe a technician many dollars to clean and repair the damage.. My LG washing machine has a pump pre filter.. but not the crappy dishwasher I bought!

IFS/56 How do you like your GE? Does it clean well?

Anyone thinking of getting this dishwasher....ugh...don't do it! The fabulous cleaning for a few weeks was short-lived. Although that o-ring is still in place, the DW is cleaning worse than ever, especially on the top. I have to re-wash many of the items that I put in. My neighbor down the street with the same dishwasher is going througn the same thing. My husband and I are up to 4 service calls, and they have given up. They say that there is nothing wrong with it. Now I have to deal with customer service to possibly get another unit. It is a poor design/poor quality, plain and simple.

This post has been very interesting, but I'm wondering why you didn't go with another Kenmore Elite? My sister has one, and she loves it. It's so quiet, can hardly tell it's on. Just curious?