They replaced baver's ovens I believe. Perhaps you should consult with him by email. There were numerous long threads about his oven issues.

Re the warranty -- makes sense they wouldn't warranty ovens that were no longer installed. Perhaps the warranty could be rolled over, renewed or a new one taken on the replacement.

There are Numerous complaints about similar problems with Miele ovens, and in fact Baver had read some of those posts and had hoped they were "Anomolies" or "Maybe they were made during Octoberfest"--so states Baver, (while waiting for thier Miele ovens).

Rather than Detail all these posts again, (Here), just click at the bottom for the link to the GW threads on Miele oven problems.

I'm sure that will be enough, but if for some reason you still want to see more, do a search at the bottom of the main page, for "Miele Oven Replacement"----you will find more threads.

I do think that is a bummer, that "Their Warranty Committment is over if they replace it"---suppose they replace it with another one that has the same problem?
That would be like buying a new car that has a 5 year warranty, it turns out to be a lemon and is replaced the 1st year---now that replacment car has no warranty for the next 4 years????????--I doubt any car company would get away with that, and neither should Miele!!!!!

Good luck with the resolution of your problem, and yes please post here (GW) as should Baver (are we supposed to keep Miele problems a big dark secrete) from the rest of the folks that mind find the info usefull?

Gary

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele Oven Replacement

generally with any product, if they replace it, the original warranty is still in force - so if you have a 1 year warranty and they replace it after 6 months you still have 6 months left on the warranty. I don't know what happens with extended warranties - I'm sure it depends on who the extended warranty is with and what's in the fine print.

Rococogirl...Thank you for your post. Your many posts about your satisfaction with the Miele ovens contributed to my decision to buy them and it's great to be reminded that there are still many happy customers out there so perhaps if they do replace it there won't be more problems (let's hope).

Dodge59...Yes, you totally understand my concerns. I appreciate you forwarding the additional threads. I kept searching on problems but not replacement.

Weissman...My thanks to you as well. I'm hoping you are right and that if replaced they will generate a new warranty. I had paid for the 5 year warranty as this is a complex electronic oven and although I wasn't anticipating problems this soon thought there could be some down the road.

I'll let you know how things go on Wednesday!

Tracy

Dacor replaced my ovens in the 11th month of the first one year warranty because of excessive condensation between the glass. They offered to buy them back at full price or replace them with their new Discovery model which was much more expensive. Additionally they gave me another one year warranty on the replacement ovens.

They probably didn't have to do that but I considered it a sign of a reputable company.

I did have my Miele MasterChef replaced about 6 months ago. It was a VERY difficult process, and they rather would have just refunded me my money (this wasn't easy either, though). Looking back, perhaps I should have taken them up on their offer. I just didn't have any budget left for cabinet modification and I REALLY, REALLY wanted the rotissirie. The whole process was irritating and exhausting. You really need to be persistent with them. I've spent the past 6 months in a bit of denial. The new oven has some similar issues, but I really don't want to deal with them. Which is probably how Miele wants it.

The GOOD: My broiler works fine. (This was the FIRST indication there was a problem with my old oven - everything I attempted to broil came out well baked, no char at all on anything. At first, I just chalked it up to an electric oven that cycled on and off.) New oven has a bottom roller rack, although it comes out almost too easily (not really complaining, just an observation).
New oven has a smudge-resistant surface. This actually matches my Liebherr refer better than the old, but ultimately the oven is there to bake, broil, and roast; and at nearly $4K, it should do those things very well.

The BAD: The temperatures are STILL off. Consistent, but still off. Confirmed with two separate thermometers (one dial, one mercury-like. Off by about 30-35 degrees on Convection Bake. 25 off on Surround Bake. The probe temperature also seems to be off. Probe says 160, another instant read thermometer I have says 140. Blood inside meat seems to indicate instant read thermometer is more correct.

I really need to call them and TRY and get them back out, but emotionally - I'm spent - over this whole stupid thing.

The temperature problem seems to be a well known issue. Searches on the web bring up quite a few more cases. I expected better.

It was nice of you to do the update, Baver, and with "specifics".

Another OP had posted about temp problems with an Elux oven, but never gave details--many of us suggested measuring the temp with a thermometer/s, like you have---but we never received any feedback on the temps---merely that "They were off"----alto Tech that came out to check it said, "It was within Spec"----What does that mean????

With such insufficient data, it is hard for anyone here to help that OP. As you probably have seen from my posts, The Elux can be calibrated via the Wavetouch controls, +/35F but we all have no idea how far the Op's oven was off???

Sorry we could not be more help to you, but at least you know how to describe the problem!!!!!

Gary

Yes, it's unbelievably insane that the Miele ovens are so difficult to re-calibrate once they leave Germany. I just chalked up the different temps to the different methods of cooking. This all went out the window when a couple of other posters were able to get the correct temperatures regardless of method used. Had I not had such an awful experience with my Electrolux refrigerators a few years back (3 if you remember), I would have looked at those. Next home I'm going back to standard "crap". At least I won't be disappointed. Well, I probably will, but I won't be out so much cash.

tracy25, so sorry you are having problems. My oven really has been great and it's so distressing that everyone doesn't have the same good experience.

The difference may be that I have the non-self-cleaning oven. It's very odd.

baver -- recently I bought one of the rolling racks which I agree are way loose but can be adjusted. Also, while I was on the phone about that they double-checked to be sure my oven was set for 240, not 208. Trust you've already had that done.

Yes, the voltage has been checked. A tech did tell me that the Miele has a habit of switching voltages if there is a power interruption. Not a good thing, but not relevant to my issues unless it somehow switches itself back.

Thanks for letting me know about the racks being adjustable. I'll check out the manual that came with the rack later.

Maybe this is all a self-clean related problem. If so, they certainly shouldn't have stopped selling the PerfectClean here in NA. I also noticed when I DID use the self-clean, that it did not do as well of a job as my previous Miele.

Re the rack. It took a service call to get the adjustment. I had a great tech who tightened it up a bit in the back.

Self-clean vs non might explain it.

Things aren't starting out so well. The Miele techs were due here between 8 am and 12 and I just called as in the past we were always their first stop. I was sent over to their service department after being told it could be anytime today. The service group started with a story of a new system and that they are having scheduling problems as a result.

I really understand what Baver's been through. I'm in the same place. I can't get over that they can make a product at this price point that doesn't work and then suck up all of my time (I'm a working mother). It is becoming increasingly more difficult to be nice to these people as it is such a disrespectful experience. They should step up and do the right thing. The techs clearly don't understand what's wrong and say crap about algorithms that make it that when the oven indicates it has reached temperature it really isn't on purpose. I had to share with them that I actually know what an algorithm is and that is absolutely absurd as an algorithm should predict the temperature and ensure that it reaches the apropriate temperature within the expected time and then maintain it.

My apologies for the rant.....I could go on but it would only upset me all over again.

Tracy

The techs were here and acknowledged a problem. The oven was set for 400 degrees and upon the pre-heat sounding ready it was only at 323. A half hour later (post pre-heat) it was only reading 382. I was told I'd be getting a call from "engineering". Instead, it was from their manager saying he had spoken with engineering and that the ovens are functioning properly. This even after the techs acknowledged a serious problem and witnessed the video documentation of what we had to go through to cook our salmon. (after 25 minutes at 350 we had to raise the oven temperature to 450 (to reach 350) and it still took another 25 minutes!). We've not been able to bake cakes or cookies...we might as well not have an oven at all.

The manager, rather than acknowledge a problem took the position that there is nothing wrong, these are the best ovens out there and they've never heard of these problems but since I'm unhappy he'll take the oven, rather than replacing and refund our purchase price.

I'm struggling with this as not only is there a serious product quality issue, but I will remain out my state sales tax, delivery and installation fees as well as the price I paid for the 5 year warranty. Additionally, I will need to purchase a new oven, incurring delivery and installation fees and potentially modify my oven cut out for a new unit. All I can think is they retired my oven last year and don't want to honor their warranty committment.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do next but felt you should all know about this. I also bought the miele dishwasher and after all this I have to say this really doesn't feel like an honorable company.

Tracy

Well, not a lotta good news there tracy25, but we have had the Dishwasher 5 years now, and it has been trouble free, cleans well, and is quiet (Optima) Partial Panel.

Reading "Most" of the posts here, I suspect you can expect the same out of your DW---I have never had to call service, so of course I haven't suffered thru what you folks have, but I hope the "good news" about the DW "Might Help"---at least a little-----Odds are You wont be dealing with idiots trying to fix the DW!

Gary

tracy25 - as with baver, I'm amazed at how poorly the Miele ovens have been performing and how poor their customer service it. I would recommend you take the buy back and get something else - possibly Wolf. I'm not sure why you wouldn't get your sales tax back - I would push for it - also the cost of the extended warranty as well. Even so, you're probably better off getting your money back and getting something better.

Tracy25, Sorry you're going through such a fiendish time with this. Despite loud shout-downs, I can personally substantiate that Miele CS / Tech Support can be really rubbish and they can dole out tripe with the best of them. I really don't have much truc for nonsense and after listening to chief CS or TS or some such top-man spout him circular logic at me, I lost patience with the bloke and could only muster the energy to ask him if *he* could follow what he was saying.

That said, while Miele CS/TS are rubbish but they're not necessarily much worse than CS/TS anywhere else. The entire customer-interface community has gone to pot in every industry and I don't think that there is a saving grace. (Although from my experience, Wolf still - and only so far - still maintain a decent customer face). Also, once truly performing nominally, Miele ovens really are an excellent product.

Now, people have had to resort to extreme moves to get satisfaction with Miele, including mailing the CEO's office in Germany or the head office in Princeton and the like. If you have the energy, you could try that.

But I'd also recommend another angle. Try to talk to their head chef person @ Princeton. Discuss some of these recipe challenges you're facing. The chief engineer (engineers are idiots with a capital "I", don't worry) who thinks salmon at 50 minutes is nominal performance notwithstanding, float that one by the head chef. After they choke and pick themselves up off the floor, they'll either have you try a particular oven setting for fish or give some known calibrated recipes to try at particular settings to baseline the oven OR they'll give you their official word about the off-kilter-ness of the oven. That is something that perhaps with their help you can take back to the CS and tell 'em to hop to, stat.

Now, none of this should be necessary. Speaking for myself, as a busy professional (engineer, myself. Sorry. Rockets. Not ovens.) I don't know that I'd have the time to try all these shenanigans to try to run so many diagnostics and perform my own V&V on a brand new appliance that the company can't be bothered to diagnose or V-V. BUT the fact is that when/if the oven works, it really should be splendid and so should be worth some amount of initial aggravation to get them sorted out.

All the best. I honestly hope that the tide will turn soon and that you're rough road will be hoed for you! Nothing worse than ruing an expensive brand new acquisition that you were probably really anticipating.

My thanks to all of you for your understanding, support, ideas and insights. After reading Baver's posts part of me knows I should be grateful that they are offering to return my purchase price. However, I really wanted these ovens. I love their design (they're a real focal point in my kitchen) as well as what they claim to do. I just want them to work.

Mindstorm, I like your idea of reaching out to their chef and seeing if I can engage their assistance. I think I may give that a try.

In the meantime, I've begun to research other ovens again. Hopefully, there will be something I can get excitetd about...Tracy

I'm interested in knowing what ever happened to the poster who was having the problems with the Miele double wall ovens?

We bought new Miele double wall ovens as part of our kitchen renovation and they were installed in September. They never worked properly. Essentially the temperature read out on the display had no relationship to the reading from a thermometer in the oven. The over preheat alarm would go off about 100 degrees before the ovens actually reached the temperature selected and the temperature the oven read out was displaying. We had Miele out three times to try to fix this problem. They confirmed the problem using their own thermometers. They replaced about everything that can be replaced in an oven to no avail. Finally, they agreed to replace the ovens. Well, the replacements were installed today and they do the same thing!!

I set both ovens to bake to 400 degrees. The preheat signal went off after about 10 minutes for each and the display said they were pre-heated. My oven thermometers (which correlated very well to the Miele tech's thermocouple) read about 300. It took almost another 30 minutes for the oven thermometers to reach the programmed 400 degrees. To me that is unacceptable since it means the oven read out is of no use and I must always rely on the oven thermometer, not exactly what we paid almost $6000 for.

I think our next step is to ask for our money back and select new ovens.

John

jkjjpc - fyi - it's not unreasonable for an oven to take 30 minutes or so to reach 400 degrees. Pre-heat beeps are weird on many brands of ovens - they beep when the air near the thermostat reaches the set temperature but it takes longer than that for the oven to stabilize at the set temperature. Its unlikely any full-size oven will reach 400 degrees in 10 minutes. I understand your frustration but if your ovens are actually reaching the set temperature you may not have a real problem - other people on this thread never have their ovens reach the set temperature.

I have meile double ovens, now two years old. I, too, had difficulties with them. See previous posts for the detailing, but ultimately resulted in an entirely new electronic board. I finally decided that I need to adjust my thinking on what setting and how to bake.

Here is what works for me: I NEVER use the "bake" setting, instead I use convection, surround, or intense - depending on what I am baking. Every time I bake, I note on the recipe what setting, what temp, how long, and results. I always use a separate thermometer to test temp if I am trying a new recipe. For baking, I NEVER use the preheat bell as an indication of readiness. I always allow 30-45 minutes for full preheating. Some baked items I preheat even longer. My oven never has the mascara melting blast that my old oven had. It truely never feels that hot.

The miele techs will tell you that a thermometer placed in the oven to double check the miele oven temp does not work. I am convinced that my ovens never do come up to temp the way my old awful oven did, but I still bake, and roast with them and I don't have to leave food in much longer or increase the temp. I do not adjust the temp or time when I use convection bake unless it is going to take over an hour 15. If so, I might pull back on the temp a bit.

I find that the rack placement is also different. In my conventional oven I would place the rack in the bottom 1/3 of the oven, now I find I'm typically racking a bit higher unless it is for a pie or pizza.

It was suggested to me that I try baking a box cake mix to see if it would bake properly. Suprisingly it was perfectly done at the recommended
time. Go figure. Since then I have been learning how to bake using the miele. I like my ovens, but I'm not sure I would buy them again. On the other hand I have a miele DW, and love, love, love it!!

This is so depressing and distressing. Obviously, something changed and not for the better at all.

Weissman is right. the preheat beep on this and most ovens is considered meaningless. Give it 30-45 minutes depending on temperature. Your ovens seem to be working to spec if by 40 minutes the oven reaches your 400 deg setpoint.

Fact is that the temperature probe sits up at the top of the oven (by the broiler element) and unf. the beep that registers pre-heating goes off when the probe registers that it is within spec of the setpoint. Unf. in the "cooking portion" of the oven cavity won't be there for a while yet.
And why the lag? Fact is that this and other modern ovens have yielded to consumer requests to have bigger and bigger oven cavitiies. Air is just not that good a conductor and heating larger and larger volumes of air that are these larger ovens means it will take longer and longer to heat up.

So, give your oven 30-45 mins preheat if you need the preheat and then go.

Beyond that, I honestly believe that lucypwd is spot on. Rococogurl has essentially documented as much also. In an oven with so many modes, there will be a introduction period where you learn the oven's language. 17 diff. configurations is quite different to the 2 (bake vs broil which was all that the ovens I ever had offered) that old ovens came with. Other ovens available now offer more modes but they still are far fewer than Miele's 17 - you may not need them all but you'll have to figure out (manual, Miele chefs) which ones work for you and then close the loop on the results you get.