I was pretty set on the Elux DF but my trusted appliance guy told me he would recommend the GE 10 out 10 times (this is for the monogram, not the cafe). I went with the GE, but haven't used it yet. :/ Looks nice though and has the roll out racks.

Bosch!! Hands Down this was our choice for a new range. I researched on Epinions.com too. I urge you to check this out because this really helped me choose my range. What do I love about my Bosch Dual Fuel Intrega 700??? I love the heavy grates. You can put them in the Bosch dishwasher to clean them. Awesome for me. Easy to clean and they look bran new after a wash. I love the large knobs and the look of stainless and black. I love the convection oven options, the dehydration for fruit or meat options, I like the racks and how they pull out very far for me to baste, marinate or check over stuff. I like the warming drawer to keep stuff warm for a busy family. I lvoe the quick convection broil, or conv bake or just regular bake. I love how fast my burners boil water. We were staying at a friends ski lodge over MLKing holiday. They have an old stove in their place that was so slow by the time it boiled water I did not feel like hot chocolate anymore. I realized how fast my range is. It heats so fast if you do not have all your ingredients ready to go you need to turn the burner off. I love the time cook plan and the auto on or off. I like how fast the oven warms up. My son prefers to cook his snacks in the Oven and used to be a Micro only kid for his corn dogs, nachos, hot pockets, bagels bites.... I don't like the gas on glass feature. I am told it is easier to clean than a stainless with gas grates. However glass really is a pain to clean because you have the burners to content with. BUT, the sealed burners are wonderful. If you have ever had food boil over onto a burner you know too well the horror that is to clean and make the burner funciton again. But the sealed burners mean when hot melted velvetta cheese boils over because your dimwit daughter wasn't paying attention it can not ruin the burner. My daughter never has to worry about boiling over velvetta cheese again because Bosch has this cool opti simmer burner. It doesn't boil over. Well, lets just say she can text, listen to music and be distracted from cooking and the cheese has not boiled over yet. I love my Bosch. It has been a year and wow this is an amazing range. My DH is a Bosch fan. He knows nothing about kitchens, but he is a car guy. And Bosch is German made. DH loves BMW. So when we were searching he felt the German made brand was going to be a great ride. Tight around the corners, sleek, handles well and is reliable. The Bosch is not a car but it is desingned like it is. You will love it too. ~boxerpups

"Commercial bakeries use nothing but gas ovens." This is not true. If you are talking about bulk bakeries, they are more inclined to because it is often cheaper but they also have steam injectors to add humidity when needed. I know several specialty bakeries that use electric ovens. Many deck ovens in commercial kitchens are electric. I knew of a bakery that was called "the Electric Bakery". It really depends a lot on what they are baking. I know a baker that has specialty ovens for pies. This really has nothing to do with home ovens because they are a different breed anyway as they are expected to do many different things. "Dual fuel is excessively expensive, and overly complex for no benefit in performance ." Performance is different things to different people. They have different needs so there is no one size fits all. If I were selling appliances, the first thing would be to assess that person's needs and make individualized recommendations based on those needs. I most likely would never recommend ranges to begin with unless there was a compelling reason like space or cost issues or even a preference for "looks" over cooks. Pick out each component because it meets individual needs in the best way possible. As far as cost, you can buy electric ovens with features that have high utility for less than some gas ovens with limited features. Electric ovens can be complex, but so are our home computers and cars these days. This is not necessarily a bad thing. These ovens can have features that many consider helpful in how they use their ovens. It takes a computer board to coordinate fans, heating elements and tight temperature control. I love being able to control the direction of heat and fan speed in my oven. I can have air movement slow or fast to facilitate browning or not if I am baking a cake. It has a lot greater range of temperature, with or without the fan than many ovens gas or electric that cost a lot more. There is a learning curve with these features especially with the many choices something like Gaggenau or Miele give you. The combi oven is the king of control of the cooking environment but not in a range yet. The other side of the coin is some ovens have this figured out and others, not so much, so you have to read as many reviews as you can. To minimize risk if you want these features, buy the longest service agreement that you can. They can be difficult to evaluate and compare because a feature named the same name in two different brands can mean two different things. Even the term "dual fuel", in most ovens it means gas burners and an electric oven but 5 Star when they say dual fuel means a gas oven and electric oven together in the same range. You have to decide what is a benefit and what is a burden? No one answer. "could you please explain why all gas is fine" "All gas is fine." I might agree with that statement depending on how you use your oven but that in no way means they are the same and it in many cases gas is not the best choice. Gas and electric ovens are constructed differently. Because you have combustion for your heat source, another difference, gas ovens are vented more to remove products of combustion including water, so those products of combustion and humidity from food move out of the oven and into the kitchen. That may be good or bad depending on where you live, but how is that significant to cooking? It is much more difficult to keep added steam in a gas oven if you are doing that for bread or adding a pan of water for cheesecake. Because there is more of an air current, in a gas oven, this removes more moisture from the surface of what you are cooking. This inhibits starch gelatinization during the first part of baking so inhibits rise and changes the appearance of what you are baking. On the other hand, because it evaporates moisture from the surface and allows it to heat more quickly, the Maillard and other browning chemical reactions take place more quickly. This is why meat, vegetables and even baked goods brown more quickly. Will you notice? A lot of people say they don't. I have baked in gas and electric ovens for over 50 years and I used to attribute differences in outcomes to different ovens rather than a difference in fuel but with the many books and websites that have come out on food science, you can see the rationale for the differences in outcome that cooks report in cooking/baking forums. It was kind of a "aha" moment to put these comments with the science. All of the information coming out challenges what used to be conventional wisdom and yet it might be hard to see if you are not baking the exact same recipe side by side. You do see the same observations cooks make repeatedly in terms of cooking on cooking and baking forums and people seem to notice the difference more coming from electric to gas but you do see the occasional comment about excess moisture in some electric ovens when they are coming from gas. Most advertising literature and websites about ovens actually say a gas oven provides moist heat and electric dry but they are only looking at the heat source and not the oven as a whole and the process of cooking which provides a lot of moisture to the oven chamber. Another difference is that there are more and more features being loaded into ovens now as noted above, mostly electric but sometimes gas too. Some electric ovens have added steam. Combi ovens are very useful in their ability to control humidity and really make the case for buying ovens separate from the range top instead of having to pick the priority of the burners or the oven. I am not a fan of the current trend of hiding the bake element in electric ovens. Sometimes with pies, you need that bottom element exposed. It used to be you could put a tray under the element to catch spills. If you put it on the bottom now, it will melt. Some other things to consider. gas broilers are of two types. There is the traditional gas broiler, but they are not very good. Many prostyle gas ovens have an infrared broiler. They are very hot and even, but can be small. They are great for a couple of steaks but not so much trays of appetizers or broiling larger amounts. How big is the oven? Do you want a quick preheat or need room for full commercial sheets? Look at the rack size for usable space and size top to bottom. What is the temperature range, lowest and highest? What are the increments that you can set your temperature? 25F or 5F? Ovens are not an easy choice these days but I think it helps at least some people to realize the differences so you can at least make a somewhat informed decision.

I have a Bosch dual fuel range (slide in) that is about 1" away from the wall/backsplash. I have never noticed it sticking out until I read this and then went to look, lol. It does, but if I've never noticed it, it doesn't bother me. The range itself is about 2 1/2" out from the base cabinetry. But I know what you mean if you want the 24" deep Thermador look. Personally, I would invest in an integrated refrigerator, using money saved from the Thermador and/or GE. The refrigerator is a much larger appliance and it's "sticking out" is more obvious than the counter height range. ("Counter depth" refrigerators also stick out; only fully integrated are flush.) I have 18" between the range and the next full height bank of cabinetry which includes a flush Thermador microwave/convection oven. The cabinetry sticks out 1" from the countertop and 2" from the 18" base cabinet farther than it should, a custom construction error I don't want to talk about. But that would be about the same as the space between your refrigerator and range if both "stick out." That 18" is good enough for my small Keurig and that's about it. It also has wall cabinetry above it because I used a hidden Zephry Pisa undercabinet range hood, so I don't have the "open" look you'll get from your range hood. That 18" of usable space is the same, however. We don't cook much at all (I hate it). I've had a Thermador dual fuel range and now this Bosch. Years ago, when I did have to cook, I had GE Monogram wall ovens and glass cooktop. Other than much preferring the gas, I can't think of major differences between all of them, or being unhappy with any of them.