NEW Bosch Dishwashers with Cutlery Rack

14 years ago

Finally, Bosch have released their new generation of dishwashers on the American market they have been out in Europe for some months.

The most interesting innovation is probably the cutlery drawer. Here is the feature list for their top model Â IÂll comment on it later. And... be ready for a surprise I'll tell you about towards the end of the post - you'll love it!

Appearance

* Stainless Steel TallTub

* 6 Wash Cyles and 5 Options

Quietness

* Virtually Silent: 40 dBA

* Quietest Dishwasher in the U.S.

* Two Pumps Minimize Noise & Vibration

* Solid Base Contains Sound & Prevents Leaks

Efficiency

* 180 kwh/yr - Energy StarÂ®

* Most Efficient Dishwasher in the U.S.

* EcoActionÂ Option Reduces Energy Usage by up to 25%

* EcoSenseÂ Reduces Energy Usage by up to 20%

* Half Load Option for Small Loads

* Flow-Through Water HeaterÂ

* Triple Filtration System

Safety

* AquaStopÂ® Plus 4-Part Leak Protection Works 24/7

* PerfectDoorÂ Keeps Dishwasher Door at Angle You Want

* Sanitize Option eliminates bacteria and enhances drying results

* SaniDryÂ Hygienic Condensation Drying

* Concealed Heating Element - No Melting of Plastics

Capacity

* 15 Place Setting Capacity

* VarioFlexÂ Plus Racks for the Most Flexible Loading

* 3rd Rack for Additional Loading Capacity

* RackMaticÂ® Plus - Upper Rack adjusts to 3 Different Loading Levels

* Extra Tall Item Sprinkler Cleans Items 22" Tall

Convenience

* Multi-Function Full Text LCD Display

* 24 h Delay Start Timer

Performance

* Water Softener Ensures Perfect Cleaning Results

* ActiveTabÂ Tray Optimizes Detergent Dissolving

* OptiDryÂ® for Spotless Drying Results

* Variable Spray Pressure

* Load Size Sensor Automates Wash Cycle

On Quietness: yes, 40 dB is pretty much as low as it gets Â even the Miele LaPerla is, technically, a little louder at 41 dB.

On Efficiency: I do have to say Bosch dishwashers use very little water. Here in Germany, they use even less and still do a brilliant job. The Half-Load Option is really nice: you can load dishes anywhere you want and this option will cut down on water consumption and also time. I even used it to wash a full load of lightly soiled dishes using only 2.4 gallons of water. EcoAction reduces the water temp and extends the cycle a little. The flow-through water heater is now built into the wash pump, which, according to Bosch, makes for faster water heating. The new filter is only a triple step system Â compared to the old four step one. However, they have changed the micro filter: it now looks like a HEPA filter known from vacuum cleaners. This new system can filter more water than the old one due to the increased surface area (like a HEPA filter).

On Safety: I guess we all know about the AquaStop leak protection. One thing I especially like about it is that Bosch is so confident about it, they guarantee to cover any damage to your home should the system ever fail Â nice!

However, the best is yet to come: SaniDry! Now, I have looked up the exploded view / parts diagram for these models and it seems Bosch have finally introduced their patented heat exchanger to the US market. Our Bosch/Siemens dishwashers over here have had this for many years and IÂm excited to see it being sold in the US. Here is what it is: the heat exchanger is a plastic reservoir, mounted to the left outside of the dishwasher tub. When you turn the dishwasher on, this reservoir fills with fresh water. Once full, the water is emptied into the dishwasherÂs tub and recirculated. Towards the end of the prewash, the heat exchanger again fills with fresh water. What now happens is that the hot water, spraying around inside the tub, heats up the water stored in the reservoir. After about five minutes of this heat exchanging process, the water from inside the tub is drained and replaced by the preheated water from the heat exchanger. The advantages are: less energy and time needed to heat water for the next step (i.e. main wash), no temperature shock on fine dishes and glasses because the water is preheated and, at the same time, the water inside the tub is cooled (as heat is absorbed by the cold water in the heat exchanger).

The heat exchanger also fills towards the end of the main wash and interim rinse, which means every step in the cycle begins with preheated water.

During the drying cycle, the reservoir first remains empty. Once about half of the cycle is over, the reservoir begins to fill with cold water: this is the condensation-drying step. What happens is that the wall of the dishwasher tub is cooled, causing the steam to condense. The droplets are drained away at the end of the cycle. Note: as you can imagine, this system really benefits from a cold-water hook-up. However, because of the little amount of water uses and the preheating, cycle times should not be excessively longer.

On Capacity: yes, the Miele patent has finally expired and everyone is jumping on the bandwagon putting cutlery drawers on their dishwashers. The Bosch varioDrawer is not dividable or hight-adjustable. However, it is V-shaped so that you can put taller items to the left and right sections of the upper basket and small cups etc. in the middle section of the drawer. They also finally changed the upper rack layout to the European design, which, I think, is a vast improvement Â never understood why Bosch used this stupid upper rack design in the US. One thing to mention: there is no third spray arm Â instead, they upgraded the top nozzle. It is bigger and has its own water feed, so that is has more power than before to wash the cutlery drawer. Still think a real spray arm would have been the better solution.

On Performance: as you may have noticed from the list above, their TOL machines also have a water softener. These, contrary to the ones by Miele, are not self-adjusting, though. You have to set them yourself. The Tab Tray is a nice invention as it prevents tabs from falling (and becoming stuck) in between plates. Nevertheless, I still prefer powdered detergent Â the Miele brand, actually. OptiDry automatically increases the final rinse temperature and lengthens the drying cycle should the rinse aid dispenser be empty. Variable Spray Pressure is a nice feature but only works automatically on the Auto cycles Â not user-selectable like on some LG dishwashers. There is also an Extra Wash feature, which, if it works like Intensive Zone in Europe, washes the lower rack at a higher temperature and with more pressure Â for pots and pans. Sanitize is also available.

On a personal note: we have a (Euro) Siemens at home and it is the best dishwasher I have ever used Â even better than my grandmaÂs Miele. Even if you stack items everything comes out just clean and perfect. Bosch/Siemens dishwashers also constantly receive great reviews from our consumer magazine.

Now for the big invention Bosch/Siemens brought to the dishwasher market a few months ago: real heated drying with zeolith minerals! This is an amazing system Â already award-winning and patented.

How it works: underneath the dishwasherÂs tub, there is a container filled with artificial zeolith. These minerals have the ability to transform hot, moisture-laden air into dry and even hotter air. During the drying cycle, a fan blows the steamy air from the drying cycle through the minerals. These than gradually absorb the moisture and further heat up the air, which is than blown into the tub to dry the dishes. Interestingly, the outlet resembles the one found on vintage KitchenAid dishwashers, where a hair dryer-like mechanism dried the dishes. The hot air is then once again forced through the minerals Â this cycle continues until the drying step is over. The zeolith minerals are regenerated during the wash cycle: a little heater underneath the mineralÂs reservoir heats them up and dries them. Steam is released into the tub, which helps to heat up the wash water. By the way, there is no mentioning of a steam wash or similar. I had thought Bosch/Siemens might use the byproduct of the regeneration process (steam) and advertise it as a new steam wash feature Â but apparently not.

As I said, Zeolith Drying is new to the German market and it might take a while before it is, hopefully, launched in the US. Our consumer magazine tested one of these new Zeolith dishwashers and found it to dry plastics better than any other dishwasher.

Finally, here are the video clips I have uploaded to my YouTube account, which show some of the different features. Note: they are in German so what you need to do is click on "More Info" on the right-hand side of the video Â this will give you an English translation.

The activeWater system

ActiveTab Tray

VarioFlex Plus Racks and varioDrawer

Extra Wash

Greetings from Germany, Alex

Featured Answer

mrtimewise

14 years ago

last modified: 9 years ago

I should mention that ABT in the Chicago are has had these dishwashers on the floor for a month. The Bosch representative permanently assigned to that store gave us a great introduction to the models.

The flatware basket does indeed fit anywhere on the bottom rack.

The middle rack does have the flipee things to grab tall glasses. And the rack can be raised and lowered AND tilted side to side to hold tall glasses while still allowing for very tall pans in the lower rack.

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Comments (27)

59 Dodge
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Veddy interestin. I suspects our 3 year old Miele will probably outlast us, but we did buy the Miele because of the
cutlery tray---dont think I ever heard of a Miele before that. Glad to see folks will have "Options" who like me hated bending over and puttin the silverware in that lil freakin basket. The drying system sound great too, I would say if the Miele has a weakness (Optima) it is the drying The dishes are dry, sort of, but being a yank, I'm used to grabbin hot dishes out of the DW

Gary
lee676
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
First impressions:

* $2,100? It better be good.......

* I like the dropped section in the middle of the top (3rd) rack - but can anything larger than those tiny cups fit?

* In the U.S. market, Bosch DWs have suffered by being sized to match European cabinetry, which makes their racks about 2" (50cm) shallower front-to-back than their competition from LG, Samsung, Whirlpool, or GE. They cleverly worked around this limitation somewhat in their recent low-end models that shape the rack around the contours of the thin door, but they really need a North America-specific tub to be competitive in capacity.

* Bosch used to use the European top rack in the U.S. too (and still does on a few models IIRC, including the Gaggenau-branded versions). I had one where I used to live. One problem with the Euro design (including the new one): if full-height glasses are placed in the second-from-rightmost column, they will fall over unless the cup/wineglass shelf is lowered. Most other brands work around this with some sort of flippable peg arrangement or flip-down support between the two rightmost columns.

* If the drying works as well as the aforementioned Hobart-era Kitchenaids, it will dry better than any modern dishwasher.

* Bosch's cutlery basket design is brilliant - instead of a flat area in the lower rack with no pegs where the basket must be placed, the entire lower rack has pegs (or tines if you prefer that term) and the basket fits over the pegs, so it can be easily slid left or right or back or forward to make room for large cookware as needed. This design is being carried over to the new DWs.

* I wish Bosch would offer their near-silent 40db sound insulation package in an otherwise stripped-down basic model so most of us could afford one.

It may be awhile before I see a new Bosch DW in the flesh, as most of the stores that sell them around here have gone out of business. I haven't seen the new Asko with the shallow 3rd rack in the center, yet, for the same reason. Odd that though everyone else is introducing 3rd racks, Maytag/Jenn-Air discontinued theirs recently. It had the best arrangement I've yet seen - the extra rack was on the bottom and still deep enough to hold cookware, with height-adjustable 2nd and 3rd racks above it that were also sloped left to right, and there were *four* rotating spray arms. Too bad they were so noisy.
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I went to the higher end appliance store in my area today and they had Bosch. It definitely looks a lot smaller than my current Maytag (that died). The appliance store was also recommending ASKO. It seemed to be a bit higher priced than Bosch. They did not carry Miele which means nobody in my area will have it. The sales staff did say the same thing that KA will stick out compared to Bosch. I definitely want the flush look. They had 3 models of Bosch. I can't remember the model numbers but basically the lowest price option you had to take out the upper basket and put it on a different track to raise or lower it, the middle level did the rack adjustment automatically and the highest option did the automatic adjustment plus had a 3rd rack at the top for knives, big spoons etc. Does anyone have any opinions on these? Is the 3rd rack truly useful. I like the idea of it, but not sure if it is really useful. I honestly don't care much about dishwasher cycles. I will most likely keep it on the same cycle all the time. I do greatly care about delay start...use that feature all the time now. What about Akso?
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Most or all miele dealers carry no inventory ! So, being saddled with a non seller isn't really plausible. Mom , it's very surprising that your DISHES weren't dry if you used rinse aid. Things like tupperware lids, sippycup tops, and other plastic items with channels that collect water and have no mass - yes. But those things are often wet out of heated dry makes too. My MIL had a GE with a huge element in the bottom and all the grandkid's stuff was wet after a cycle in that too. Yes, Bosch has cheaper models, but feature for feature (which is hard to align) they are pretty much the same price. Now, factor in that Miele makes all of their units in Germany with astronomical wage scales, ships them here, and pays duty on them, makes me wonder if the Bosch stuff made in rural NC is a tad over priced in comparison ? Still fine machines - and yes, I have a couple of them as well as Mieles.
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Old thread I know, but I did want to sadly, amend my above statement about my Whirlpool dw in case anyone is digging through old threads to decide which brand dw to buy. I did love my Whirlpool dw more than a person should love a dw, but now it is ready for the heap. It was the best dw I ever had and everything always did come out sparkling clean each cycle. But in the last year, I've had 4 or 5 (I've lost count) significant repairs, including a new motor a few months ago. It's current death knell is the new motor is dead. I am done having to wait weeks on end for the repair tech to come out, decide the problem, order the part, then wait weeks longer to make it onto his schedule to replace parts. The machine has been out of service as much as it was in service for a year now. Yesterday was my 5 year anniversary of taking delivery of the Whirlpool dw and here I am awaiting delivery of a Bosch dw, that I hope will have a better track record over time. I guess what I am saying is, I hope to get at least 5 trouble-free years out of the new dw. I'm disappointed as I loved this dw and I sorely miss it--been without it's service for nearly a month again. But, now I don't trust that repairs will last any length of time and if a new motor only has a few month life span, I'm not getting back on board with Whirlpool :-( I have no way of knowing if Whirlpool replacement parts are crud or if the repair tech being sent out by the warranty company is the dud. I'll never know at this point. I found this thread because delivery of new Bosch dw has been delayed another week and I wanted to use this grumpy time to do more research to make sure I didn't get myself into another unpleasant situation--this thread showed up on the search results. I'm sorry to report this news, but this thread has been a concern of mine for a year now since all the major problems started happening with my Whirlpool dw and didn't know where it could possibly be in the website here. I'm glad it showed up for my recent search so I could amend my statement. I'm sorry if my above comments led anyone to a troublesome path. Very much so.
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@whirlpool_trainee, I also open my door to let it air dry but the blast of steam that comes out is fairly substantial. It is hot and humid a lot of months here and I always hate doing this in the summer. Plus, I wonder if the sudden steam coming out is good for the finish on surrounding cabinets. I also wish I could say the Bosch remains quiet. It started out so quiet but now it sounds just like any other DW. For $1000, I expected better. You can hear all the sloshing and the circulation motor humming during the circulation cycle. Absolutely no need for a light shining on the floor as I can hear it several rooms away. I complained to Bosch but manufacturer's warranty is expired as the unit is 18 months old. I clean the filter every two weeks by removing it completely and hosing and brushing it off, use the newer DW cleaning tabs that are now available here in the States and run an empty cycle. I have examined the impeller for something that might be stuck but didn't find anything. I am at a loss. I have an extended warranty but complaining about the increased noise level is not grounds for service according to the repair firm. They told me it must stop washing, draining, etc. I am alone here but given the difficulty in the way it loads, the need to open the door to a blast of steam for adequate drying and the now louder noise (way, way over 40 Db), I am very disappointed and will never get another Bosch. I know it is a beloved machine by many, just not me. So to the OP, I think the Miele is a good choice and I hope you find your answer about whether you can add panels after purchase. That question interests me as well.
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mrtimewise
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
We are talking about the Bosch SHX68E15UC, right? (and models with equivalent internal designs, but with a different front).

We decided to get this dishwasher a month ago, but have yet to make the purchase.

My concern regards the hidden controls. My spouse likes the SHX68E15UC version with the handle where a towel can be hung for easy access. But this version doesn't have any indicator panel showing progress of the wash cycle. (The light shinning on the floor is great, but it doesn't tell us how much time is left.)

Or we could go with the "no handle" version (SHE68E15UC) and see a display of time left.

Have any of you missed having a display indicating time left in the wash cycle?
mrtimewise
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I just confirmed with the Bosch representative...

The zeolith mineral drying system is NOT in the Evolution 800 Plus series products. The Bosch representative was, quite frankly, surprised that the system was already introduced in Germany. (He knew of the consideration to add the feature as of two years ago while he was in the Bosch design group in Germany.) He also said that it will likely be some considerable time before Bosch introduces the system within the US.
baltymoron
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
We are redoing our kitchen and dining room and are going with fairly high end nice appliances including a Bosch DW. We are going cabinet front and I had a 800 series integra that I paid about $1200 for waiting for me, but when I saw this new one, I had them order me one. It is $500 extra but I think the cutlery rack should be a nice addition. That said, I'm not sure the difference between 40dB and 45dB or whatever makes any difference--- it's quiet as a whisper.

Originally I went with Bosch because in all my reading it was pretty much a tossup between Bosch and Miele. The Bosch was cheaper, so I went with that. Now I find that I'm spending $1800 or so on the dw...so could have almost gone with the top Miele. Oh well... I can't wait. Between water and energy efficiency, quietness, and everything else, it seems like this can't be beaten.
oldcarrot
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Are these made in the US or Germany?
antss
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
lee -

the point of the upper cutlery basket is not to fit cups ect. in. They are just showing that you can put an espresso one hitter in theirs. This is not possible with Miele's. From the publicity I've seen I think it'll be better than Miele's and I love that one.

agree with the rest of the racking - not my favorite and I think Miele's and Asko's are better.

Bosch split cutlery basket is really nice - though I prefer the upper most tray.

mrtime - do you guys sit around watching your DW waiting for a cycle to end and really have a need for a display? At 2 hours run time what are you planning that is critical to know how much time is left at any given moment? Most (90%) DW's don't have a countdown display. The handless version's plastic look cheap in my opinion and I've seen the coloring wear off.

I was told this particular model was going to be made in Germany and not New Bern , NC. Mrtimewise can you confirm this since you've seen one?

Some one mentioned Asko's new 4 rack system. I spent 45 min. kicking one about and while impressive in some regards the size of the Dw is still the same, they have just added another level. This is great if your have small dinner plates. It just isn't going to fly for the majority of American households that have larger (read taller) everyday dinner plates.
mrtimewise
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
...the difference between 40dB and 45dB...

3dB is twice the volume.

...mrtime - do you guys sit around watching your DW waiting for a cycle to end and really have a need for a display...

:-) I just knew someone would ask. You are right, of course, I don't need the time display. But I do find myself walking through the kitchen with a glance at the display to see if I should be ready to put dishes away in a short period. And more often I just want to know what that odd noise is...oh yeah, it's the dishwasher that my spouse started up....and when's it going to be done?

Actually I'm glad the opinion is that the time countdown is not needed.

According to my contact, the handle on the Bosch 800 series Evolution Plus is stainless steel (but the end caps are plastic).

And the 800 series Evolution Plus are made in Germany. Apparently all other Bosch dishwashers are made in the states.
beth
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
This is the DW I posted about a couple of weeks ago, wondering if anyone has one. The Energystar rating is 159% above and beyond the minimum necessary for the rating, and it's also the most quiet on the market. I wish I could see one in person, because I'm getting ready to take the plunge.
lascatx
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I'm glad Bosch has put these on the market here. Since I would get one if either of my 2 current DWs were to die, I can now be pretty well assured that neither will have a problem for some time. LOL
beachlily z9a
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
After having a Bosch dishwasher flood my home 3 years ago, they could give them away. I have F/P dishdrawers that have performed wonderfully. All the bells and whistles will draw more people to Bosch, but not me (and I love techy tech!).
lascatx
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Sorry you had a problem, but I've heard of more leaky drawers than regular DWs of all other brands. Obviously one bad one doesn't mean they are all bad on either count.
monicakm_gw
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I know this is a Bosch thread but I just wanted to say how much I'm loving (I've had the dw less than a week) my KA with the cutlery rack. So far, I've been able to put all my silverware on the third rack (plus the little corner utensil rack on the bottom and remove the primary utensil caddy giving me even more room on the bottom for pans.
ps...I DO miss my time display the Maytag had. I don't think I ever NEEDED to know how much longer till the end of the cycle but it was there and as someone else said, you'd catch a glance of it while in the kitchen and know. It also indicated whether it was in the wash or rinse part of the cycle. The KA goes from a wash to a dry indicator light. Yes, I do micromanage :)
Monica
antss
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
3 db. is twice as loud ???

It's not quite as simple as that especially the louder sound gets.

It not a simple linear equation.

Is it quieter ? Yes

Will this new Bosch sound twice as quiet as is Gaggenau cousin rated at 43dB or a Miele at 46 to 9 out of 10 people?

No way.
mrtimewise
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Oops!

Sorry, I was quoting a 3dB change for POWER - a 3dB change in power is twice the power.

When it comes to sound (SPL - or sound pressure level) a 10 dB change is twice as loud.

My bad!
guadalupe
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
How do you figure the drying system adds up to sani-dry?
beachlily z9a
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Yes, but if that "one" flooded your living room and dining room, both of which had expensive carpet installed 6 months earlier ... it would become a defining moment for you too, lascatx. The dish drawers have been flawless, but they do have a moisture alarm on the floor beneath them.

The reason the flood happened? During the night a brain fart happened (in the dishwasher) and water kept filling and flooding out the dishwasher because there was no ability to electronically drain the water. So when DH went to the kitchen to make coffee the next morning, slosh! slosh! We were not happy campers, especially since that dishwasher was about a year old.
mrtimewise
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I bought one of the SHE68E15UC Bosch dishwashers today. After many discussions with a Bosch representative who had been one of their product designers in Germany, I took the plunge. Besides, I couldn't pass up the price I found. The price was...well, I won't say because I don't think we're allowed to mention prices here. I will say, however, that the price was less than you might guess by at least $500. Contact me via email if you want more info on the source.
jeanteach
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I've said this before on other threads, but I am very unhappy with my Bosch. I purchased a lower end model (but it was still much more expensive than KA, Whirlpool, etc.) and after only two years it started acting up and not finishing the cycle. The powdered soap would still be stuck in the cup, dishes were not clean, etc. In my opinion a high end appliance like that should not malfunction after only a few years. I will never buy another Bosch anything and I tell everyone I know the same thing. (BTW, customer service was no help at all.)
monicakm_gw
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
mrtimewise, I've been on these forums for 7 years and I've never read a rule that says you can't mention what you paid for something :o People do it all the time. I paid $1200 for my KA (KUDE60) dishwasher. See? I'm still here (g)
Monica
monicakm_gw
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
...ps, that included tax!
mrtimewise
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
OK...I paid $1228 for the Bosch SHE68E15UC, delivered.
mrtimewise
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
BTW...I just found out that the Bosch dishwasher Zeolith drying system is also currently being sold in Asia.

The Singapore Bosch site advertises the system just as does the German Bosch site.

It is disappointing that the US gets these innovations last. I see the same type of delay in consumer electronics all the time. For example, digital televisions in Japan are nine months to a year ahead of the ones we can buy.
beth
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
mrtimewise. That's a great price. I was quoted $1799 by my local appliance dude.

So - based on your calculations, when do you think Zeolith will hit the USA?
mrtimewise
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Sorry...I wasn't reading this thread for awhile.

I'm guessing the Zeolith units will be here in mid to late 2010.

BTW...I believe the very low price I received is no longer available. The dealer I worked with had a dozen or so of the SHE68E15UC at this special price...when these were sold the price went back to the more typical $1600 or so.
kucharsk
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
BTW, despite the Bosch materials saying it holds 15 place settings, the owner's manual says it's only 14.

Bosch is actually having to recall their literature that compares the SHE68E15UC to the La Perla II for this and a handful of other printed bits that Bosch admits are just plain WRONG...

NEW Bosch Dishwashers with Cutlery Rack

mrtimewise

Comments (27)

59 Dodge

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