Shower plumbing questions - the valve connects to the ????

16 years ago

Okay, so I'm trying to understand how this whole shower plumbing thing works. I posted this on the plumbing forum but no responses - I know you all will have the answers though! Here's my setup:

The knee wall shown does not currently exist. The contractor/plumber will be building the knee wall and rerouting the shower plumbing into it. Right now, the handles for the shower and tub filler are both where the tub filler is shown in the sketch, and the showerhead extends from the middle of that wall. They are 2 separate fixtures (I can run bathwater and use the shower at the same time). The new tub filler will be in the same spot as the old one.

After a screw-up that cost me $100 in restocking fees, I bought a new thermostatic valve with integrated volume control for the shower - Kohler K-680-KS (K-T16176-4A for trim). I also purchased a chrome shower riser. Now, as I understand it, the shower riser attaches directly to the top of the valve. However, the riser I bought does not have a threaded connection on the bottom, and the valve has a female threaded connection. So, how do I connect them? Is there some other piece that needs to go between valve and riser that I am missing?

On a related note, the riser is 5/8" outer diameter, which is standard from what I understand but doesn't seem very substantial to me. Since this is going to be exposed and supported only by the knee wall and a couple of bracket attachments to the glass wall, should I try to find a heavier/larger diameter riser? Will the 5/8" pipe allow for enough water flow to give me a satisfying shower?

As for the bath, since I am leaving it where it is and I'm not super concerned about consistent water temperature, I was going to leave the old valve there and just put on a new faucet. The old faucet has 2 handles (6" apart) and a separate spout - I assume this means that the old valve is set up to accomodate 2 handles? I found a new fixture with 2 handles with an adjustable spread that I assume will work with the old valve, but it does NOT have a separate spout - so perhaps it won't work. Again, your advice is MUCH appreciated!

I realize that my contractor/plumber should be able to answer all of these questions but I really want to make sure I understand what's going on with this remodel - thank you to all of you experts for taking time to explain!!!!!!!

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Comments (8)

heimert
16 years ago
1) Your plumber should be able to supply a fitting that will go from threaded to unthreaded. Presumably he will connect the chrome riser just below the top of the knee wall so that you don't waste too much of the pretty material below the wall inside the tiles.

2) 5/8" outside is 1/2" inside, which is standard. For one normal showerhead, the pipe will be able to carry far more water than the showerhead will let you put out. Even enough if you bust out the water restrictor.

3) Not enough info on new handles--chances are it won't work, but your plumber might be able to make it work.
biondanonima
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks heimert! I just went by the apartment and it looks like the old valve is long gone anyway (probably for the best, I'm sure it was rotted through just like the rest of the plumbing in those old walls!), so I'll need to get a new one. Any recommendations for a valve made to fit a fixture like this:

http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/Elements-of-Design-DT0521AL-Wall-Mount-Leg-Tub-Filler-with-Hand-Shower-3-3-8-11-Adjustable-Spread-Chrome/18675/Cat/619

Here is a link that might be useful: Elements of Design Faucet
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Here's the easiest, or should I write an easy solution, hopefully in words and terms that you can understand. And hopefully within your budget. Symmons makes a very good pressure-balanced valve, the Temptrol line. They sell them at Home depot for around $90 give or take, depending on what comes with the valve. They may sell the valve alone, I'm not certain. I've usually seen it packaged with a shower head and tub faucet. I'm not terribly familiar with big box plumbing. If they don't sell the valve alone, you'll want a "basic valve kit" that comes with a pressure-balancing valve with a built-in tub/showerhead diverter lever, a faucet spigot, and a shower head. They make a few variations of this, but it's general designation is "96-2". Although it comes with a shower head, you can buy your own handheld hose and head to attach to the arm that comes out of the wall. Or if they do sell just the valve by itself, buy the valve, plus a tub spigot, plus a handheld outlet, a handheld hose, and a handheld head. Yes, there are variables because you're asking for a slightly non-standard set-up. Then you want a second Symmons Temptrol valve. If you can't buy just the valve, buy the 96-1 valve kit, which is the same valve as above but it just includes the shower head. No tub spigot. That will feed the rainshower head which you'll have to purchase on your own. Although the valve still has the diverter lever, when it's plumbed to just a shower head, in this case a rain head, the diverter lever will act as a volume control to the rainhead instead of a diverter to the tub. You'll have a hot and cold water supply line coming into your shower. Split both lines with a copper "T" fitting so you have two hot water and two cold water lines, one to feed each Symmons valve. The 96-2 valve will feed either your tub or the handheld. You choose which with the diverter lever built in to the valve. That's your typical bathtub/shower setup. The separate 96-1 valve will just feed the rainshower head. Two different controllers, but it keeps thing simple and affordable. Plus you now have the ability to select different temperatures for the two shower heads. There are other ways to do this, but I'm trying to keep this simple and inexpensive for you. Symmons does sell valve kits that have all the goodies you want, but they can get expensive, up in the $500-$800 range, but they don't allow the two shower heads to be used at the same time.
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Please help, I am so confused. We are in the process of redoing our bathroom and want to expand our shower options in the tub. Currently we have the tub spout and a showerhead. What I would like to have is a rainhead shower, a handheld shower, and a tub spout. What I donÂt want is a wimpy rainhead and not real interested in the body sprays. Only one of the three would probably need to be on at one time, although having 2 on might be nice. I have heard great things about the Hansgrohe Raindance Air showerheads. I really like the looks of the Raindance showerpipe. It has the rainhead and the handheld. Does anyone else have this showerpipe and do you like it or not? If I go for it, I am not sure what else I need to set up the whole system. The Raindance showerpipe comes with: Â Exposed thermostatic valve Â Raindance 240 AIR showerhead Â 63" techniflex hose Â Raindance S 100 AIR 3-Jet handshower with AIR, Whirl AIR and Balance AIR spray modes Since it has a thermostatic valve, I assume I donÂt need another. For the spout, do I need a spout with a diverter or a separate handle diverter or is either ok? Then there is a trio diverter and a quattro diverter Â which would I need? What about volume controls and an equilibrium pressure balance valve? Again not sure what I would need. Somehow, I never realized that showers were so complicated (and expensive). Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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heimert
16 years ago
I don't think you need a valve for that tub filler. The water supply ties in behind each handle, and the valve is the two handles for hot and cold, which then mix in the tub spout.
biondanonima
Original Author
16 years ago
Aha! I called the manufacturer of the tub filler and they said it came with everything it needed to work, but I couldn't see how that would work and the salesperson couldn't explain it to me. Basically, it's an exposed valve, right? I think I get it now. Good for me - one less thing to buy!
tom_p_pa
16 years ago
That exposed valve set up is kind of neat, and it will give you an additional hand held shower too.
biondanonima
Original Author
16 years ago
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. BTW, Tom, you are totally famous in my neck of the woods for doing that shower drawing for me. The glass fabricators and contractors and tile people I've shown it to think it is the greatest thing ever! MANY thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
tom_p_pa
16 years ago
Just make sure no one drills the glass on site. All holes need to be drilled prior to tempering at the glass manufacturer!!!

Therefore, precise measurements need to be made, you should really have your plumbing fixture around. The glass guy may want to use it to properly template the glass.

Also, you may need a header on your glass? Not sure what your final glass layout is, but depending on your system, it may need a support rail around the top, especially with the door the way it is shown. I try to anchor the door to a wall, but sometimes that is not possible. Your glass contractor should know this though.
biondanonima
Original Author
16 years ago
I have the shower riser at home already, so it will be available when they come to measure for the glass. I've decided to alter the design a little bit and have the riser come over the glass in an arc instead of through the glass, so that should make things a bit easier. I am also planning on having the glass fabricator make a (frosted) glass topper for the knee wall - unless you can recommend a better material for that purpose? I'll make sure they know to do the holes for the brackets in the shop, though! The glass people I've spoken with suggested a bracing the glass with a chrome bar extending from the long shower wall to the glass wall (the one with the showerhead) - I'll be sure to ask if any other supports are necessary. Thanks again for all your help with this!!!!!

Shower plumbing questions - the valve connects to the ????

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Shower plumbing questions - the valve connects to the ????

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heimert

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