We took two baths down to studs and rearranged things...no architect. We worked with our contractor - he suggested things, we suggested things, we figured together what would work for us while meeting code. We did not rearrange walls, just flipped toilet/tub and shower/tub, closed up doorways and added a door, used empty space to create two custom linen closets.

It worked fine and we love it.

BUT...it was a lot of work. I spent a gazillion hours researching (many of them on this forum) and shopping for ideas and pieces. If you take this route, you become the designer and have to deal with all that entails. The good thing is, I pretty much have exactly what I wanted.

I agree with cindy. For my current bathroom that i am remodeling myself, i spent 6 months designing, researching and planning.
Draw everything you want on the computer. You can even use Word to draw simple shapes. Measure everything in your bathroom then do a layout.
Then visit showrooms, expo, TGI, etc to look at finishes, hardware, materials, fixtures, sinks, showers etc.
Once you have finalized the design, purchase all the things you will need and store them in your house. Tiles, fixtures, everything.

Now get the remodeler to use your plan, materials and vision to implement it. In my case I am the remodeler :) Lets see how it turns out.

Is he a licensed contractor? A licensed plumber? If he is neither of those things, then I wouldn't want him anywhere near my remodel. Baths are some of the trickiest real estate to remodel, and yes, a handy homeowner can do one themselves with lots of research. But, someone you PAY to do such a project had better be licensed to do it and you'd better pull the necessary permits to do so. Moving plumbing around isn't for a "handyman"and constructing a sound waterproof bathroom isn't for a "handyman". You only have to look at the many tales of woe here to realize that. And, you only have to read plenty of other tales to realize that even a licensed tradesman doesn't mean they always know what they're doing. Learn enough yourself that you can tell the difference between code compliant quality work and shoddy work. Writing the correct specs for the scope of work of the job is more than half the battle. You definately have to educate yourself on a wide variety of construction practices in order to do that. It involves a lot more than picking out the tub of your dreams and some pretty tile. ;~)

Thank you all. I have spent a lot of the afternoon reading through old posts here to see what I may be getting myself into. The remodeling guy comes tomorrow, and I'll be sure to ask him your questions, live wire oak. Then I'll mull. I don't mind the researching and the shopping and the details, but I do worry about going from a perfectly working (though ugly) bath, to a beautiful but perhaps not so great working bath.

Thanks for all the food for thought.

Hey, kcsunshine, another thought. Have you seen this guy's work? Have you seen what he does, talked to the neighbors about what he did for them? Did they pull permits? All that is part of your research. And....do you like the rooms he has built?

Our GC is licensed as a GC and a plumber. We pulled permits to ensure code compliance (my DH is a real estate agent and is a stickler about permits) and also had a very good referral for the contractor.

That said, he did not know as much as I did about some things...he knew his plumbing and construction, but I educated him on some of the things I wanted. Again, the time you've spent reading old posts here will be invaluable.

Good luck; let us know what happens tomorrow!

We DIY'ed our to-the-studs (and joists) master bath remodel and didn't use an architect. We changed directions a few times as we went along and found that certain things wouldn't work or we liked something else better. We didn't do any major reworking, just started with a general layout and made it exact (or tweaked a bit) when we took precise measurements or got a different idea or ran into an obstacle.

I enjoy having that flexibility and not having to have every last detail laid out from the start. But the potential problem with doing that when hiring someone is that it could result in more $$ because of rework or delays that you cause by changing things.

So bottom line is that it can be done without a detailed plan. But if you do it that way you won't know up front what it will cost you.

You should at least have a general plan or layout that you've thought through very clearly. Little tweeks are one thing, but to walk in the door with a GC with a general idea, no drawings, nothing...it will cost you.

I did my plan, then because we were moving walls, I did have to have an engineer do a quick review, and then, I took the plumber through the layout first to see if it was do-able. THEN I talked to the GC.

Don't even consider this without permits if you ever want to sell your house ever (or have your heirs sell it). You're opening a can of worms there when moved plumbing is involved. The plumber is most likely the person to pull those permits, and they do need a general drawing at least to do so. (You can do this and they'll tell you if it's ok or not) or a GC will permit the whole works (wiring is a separate permit if you've moving things as well).

Permits cost a few hundred bucks. Not permitting, and not using licenced workers in the trades involved (electric and plumbing as well as a GC) is frankly, just stupid. It will cost you eventually...a little now, or a lot later.

I'd start with some easy "how to design a bathroom" books from Home Despot or similar. They have an amazing amount of info that will help you (like what is the minimum clearance for toilets, showers, etc) as well as some info on code issues (bathrooms are full of code issues!!)