I found this in one of the therma-tek pdf's:

"Therma-Tek Range Corporation may appear to be a new company in the market, but our tradition and combined experience of four principals spans more than 100 years. The owners, Surjit S. Kalsi - Chairman; Swaneel Kalsi - President"

Isn't Surjit Kalsi also the head of Capital? wouldn't that make them sort of the same company?

thank you amcook for your very imformative answers! you are the rangemaster!

sadie

Obviously I am *not* the "rangemaster" since you ferreted out quite an interesting piece of info that I didn't find... :) Technically speaking, it doesn't necessarily make them the same company but certainly if the same people are running it then it's basically the same thing. Interesting. Very interesting. Certainly does put some extra credibility behind the design for the more skeptical people out there.

Are you sure it isn't another Surjit S. Kalsi? It might be a coincidence.

I did notice looking at the pictures in the therma-tek product catalog that the burner while similar to the culinarian is not EXACTLY the same (one ring of holes on top, two on the outside edge). Not to say that it matters - just that clearly they are developing the burner for the residential market, not just making a swap.

Sadie, you are absolutely correct. From what I saw at the factory, they are definitely designing new burner caps for the Culinarian. There was a whole stack of prototypes stacked in the corner where they were testing different nozzle arrangements. The basic design is the same however and the fact that they are likely leveraging a proven supplier and casting company is comforting.

I think that it is funny that people are so interested in the Culinarian Series that Capital doesn't even show anything about on their own website. Capital has made a habit out of creating a bunch of hype about nothing. BlueStar is a proven product. The design of the BlueStar burner is used in EVERY REPUTABLE restaurant in the Country and around the world. Just take a look next time you go to your favorite restaurant and see what they are cooking on. A cast iron open star burner with cast iron bowls. Capital will also be using an inferior broiler which is one of the best features of the BlueStar range. Use the 1850 degree broiler once and you will make up your mind right away.

As for the recent shift in the Loyalty of Eurostoves from BlueStar to Capital, when Internet dealers break rules manufacturers kick them to the curb. I say congrats to BlueStar for sticking to their guns.

I think that people forget that people that are happy with their purchases don't spend hours online ranting and raving while people who have problems always make more noise. It is important to keep in mind that for every person who complains about a product they purchased there are many happy owners. Put is this way, how many times are kids called the principals office to say that they are doing all the right things? Not that often. Many things are amplified when there are problems.

I think it's funny how several newly registered users (or at least different user *names*) with exactly the same opinion and almost identical posts have suddenly popped up since Trevor "came out" regarding working with Capital on a new range.

'Nuff said.

One of the inevitable hazards of public, unmoderated Internet forums: trolls.

I personally don't mind the Trolls, it's a part of forums. My issue is the total inaccuracy of the posts.

It's very difficult to compare features of a range with another if you have not tested, seen or owned both ranges they refer too.

Cookingguru's comments about my switch of loyalty, that EVERY REPUTABLE restaurant in the US uses star burners and the broiler on the Bluestar vs the Culinarian are incorrect.

In the last 5 weeks we have had 5 people take up my offer to fly or drive to MA from out of state to compare all the ranges in our cooking school, each person or couple spent at least 4 hours cooking on, looking at, taking apart, testing our live ranges. So far we are 5 for 5 in Culinarian sales with customers who fly or drive. I have also arranged 3 factory visits to see the range and we are again 3 for 3.

I am sure if cookingguru didn't live in Washington State he / she would come and visit the store so he / she could report back with a degree of accuracy.

As always I invite .....ALL..... Trolls, Manufacturers, Manufacturers Distributors, Manufacturers Reps, finally and certainly the most importantly.... Potential Customers..... to come to the store and run the tests themselves.

Hey Trevor,

You are an amazing sales person and a credit to the industry. Prior to your sudden switch to CC you thought the sun rised and set on BS. Now your simply trying to convert the flock and good for you and i wish you all the luck.

Bottom Line they are both very nice products and will continue to fill a niche. I suggest to all potential customers not to be fooled by grey areas and smoke screens. Trevor should be the first to tell you he asked capital to make this range for him based on the fact BS would not let him sell over the internet and or out of state any more.

Trevor does want to sell the best range for the home chef yes. But to slander BS to do this he wont because he knows he will bloil in his own broth.

To the poster who claimed that the BS range was not the Garland... your wrong... it is the Garland build and redesigned for the home user. Ii dont think home users want items such as standing pilots ect. need proof its right on the mainpage of the bluestar website.

Funny thing i get the post out of this thread is where are all the Wolf, Viking, ect posters... hahaha seems trevor is starting a viral pro range cult.

Anyways, happy cooking people!

Facts AGAIN

1) I did not ask Capital to Build me a range, they approached me in CT at an appliance show.

2) Capital was on the cards prior to Bluestar's decision to restrict internet selling.

3) Bluestar did not stop me from selling over the internet, they in fact were offering that Eurostoves be THE ONLY company to sell outside a distributors area to areas where they have little or no coverage. Bluestar have tried to buy Eurostoves on a number of occasions so we could be THE ONLY INTERNET RE SELLER. The last semi approach by Bluestar to have talks regarding the purchase was only 4 weeks ago by Bluestar Attorny's. Bluestar has been talking about restricting the sales by some companies over the internet for at least 3 years. Did I know it was coming at some time YES, did I make plans for my destiny to be dictated by ME and not an outside force once an offer came from Capital YES. All the above FACTS can be verified by Mike Trapp at Bluestar.

4) I have no reason to slander Bluestar on this site, I had a good 5 years with Bluestar had an excellent working and social relationship with Bluestar, you are correct it is still a good range, just not the best anymore in my opinion. The fact here is simple... BS was the best cooking range the the US without exception I said that so many times it's unreal, and I stand by what I said to every customer I sold too. That is not longer the case. When I do some more filming and load the videos to the website that will become very apparent, let the products speak for themselves.

5) My switch to CC took nearly 5 months ( not what I would call sudden).

6) There are no grey areas or smoke screens as proven by the people who have seen and cooked on the CC and the BS in the store. Once the first batch hits customers homes ALL my comments and statements will be villi-vied until then I will continue to put up with posts doubting my word and integrity.

The one thing I do agree with you on is

Happy cooking to all on what ever you own or purchase :)

can't wait to see the new videos, trevor!

Changes to make a commercial range fit the home make them different by definition. Any statement to the contrary is self contradictory. Anyone who has used a commercial wolf compared to a wolf range today would never argue with that obvious fact. I have cooked on both commercial Garland ranges and Bluestar and they are *not* the same. The Bluestar is very much like a commercial range without a doubt but to say they are the same is just silly. In fact, contrary to popular belief, the burners are not even the same. Similar, yes but not the same. Once you have cooked on both, then come back and let's talk.

I'll add my opinion to the list. We've owned a Blue Star RNB 30 for close to two years.

In the past we had a Viking cook top with sealed burners and it was lame. We had a Decor wall oven and to fix anything you had to replace the entire solid state control circuit board.

When we started shopping for a range we wanted one that was as close to a restaurant range as we could get - and to us that meant a tool that was great to cook on, that was as simple to service as possible, and had as few electronics as possible.

The Blue Star has been great to cook on. The range top is amazingly fast and high heat has never been the issue. Simmer is the issue - we'd give up a high heat burner for a second simmer burner. A friend who is a very very high end chef saw the design of the ring that sits "up" to allow for a cooler burner and told us that in restaurant kitchens they roll tin foil up to raise a pot above the burner to create the same effect.

The large oven has been great once we bought some full size sheet pans. No more two racks with two sheet pans. You can shop at the restaurant supply store and buy any of the baking pans you see - it sounds like fluff but it really has been useful for us.

Yes, we've had an igniter module replaced, we have a new oven door after the original one stuck (hey Trevor, you posted all it takes is the removal of some screws to get a stuck door open but you never talked about what screws - thanks!) but you can fix the beast without buying a new "control board" and that is a major plus to me.

Our Blue Star is a tool. I have no problem maintaining the Blue Star the same as we do with any other tool in our kitchen- we sharpen knives, we have to replace electrical appliances in our kitchen (toaster ovens are the worst) and greasing the oven hinges once a month is very acceptable to me.

If the Capital product is as simple to maintain and cooks as well then I'd look at both.

We will be going down to LA in August & hope to try the new CC, but are still considering the BS. We are putting a 36" range into our new home, so maybe somebody will help relieve some ignorance here:

1) What's the BTU now on the CC power wok? If no longer 30K, why the change?

2) How much does the flame get "tamped down" on the BS?

3) We prefer the CC oven, but are more concerned with the stovetop performance. We will have a 2nd 27" KitchenAid electric wall convection oven.

We had pretty much decided on the CC due to the 30K BTU, but then realized all the burners were reduced in size. So now we're back to trying to decide between the two. 48" is probably a little overwhelming for our medium size kitchen...

Thanks!

Answers

1) The btu on the power wok will be 30k only available on the 48"

2) Unable to be measured

Not sure what you mean be reduced burner power ??? in my opinion the 23k btu open burner will produce more heat to the center of a wok than the 30k btu sealed burner, especially with the Dedicated Wok Grate, further the 15k btu open burner on the Culinarian will produce better heat distribution tot he base of the pan than the 19k btu sealed burners.

For me, the differecnes between top burners on the BS and CC are not much of a concern. I'm convinced they will both please the heck out of me. So, besides fit and finish, rack extension, full baking sheet acceptance and such, I'm more concerned about oven performance.

From what I can tell, the CC offers self clean, BS does not. The BS has a convection fan, the CC does not. Some say the broiler element on the BS is better. I'd like self clean, but I don't think it is a deal breaker. Who can comment about the effectiveness of the BS convection fan - is it something that should receive more than passing consideration? I don't have a second wall oven (although I am thinking about a Miele speed oven), so my 30" range will be the workhorse. Is the broiler that much different between the two? Maybe to ask the broiler question differently, what types of cooking would demand the extra heat offered by the BS broiler?

BTW, I'm planning to hold off my decision until I can see both in person. I live near L.A. county, and I hear Universal Appliances (?) in Studio City will have "the best BS showroom in California" in a few weeks. I would sure hope they will have an operationsl V1. When they are up and running, I hope to also arrange a visit to Capital to see the CC.

Thanks,
Jon

The Culinarian has a convection fan on both manual and self clean ranges.

The broiler on the Culinarian is hotter and covers a larger area so I am not sure how the Bluestar could be better. I will say both are better than most.

For me personally the convection feature is a none issue, I find that the chefs in the cooking school tend not to use it on the Bluestar or the Culinarian.

We were one of the couples that stopped by Eurostoves on a Boston trip a few weeks back to look at the two options.

After a bit of hemming and hawing, we did in fact decide on the CC, and placed our order last week (for a 60" with 24" grill).

I places most of my comments in a post a few weeks back, but I think that both are good choices. I think that the CC has a few advantages, but most fall in the range of "preference". It was clear that there were some reasons it cooked better, but honestly, either will be so much better than our range from 1982 that I can't image either would be bad.

All that said, I think the attacks on Trevor are immature and suspicious. Why attack someone who is offering a valuable service to the GW community? He struck me as a good, honest businessman, who wasn't high-pressure or intense. He knew his stuff, and even though I'm typically a skeptic, I do believe he is telling the truth about how the CC came to be and his relationship with the two companies. Unless you have proof of it otherwise, I suggest the trolls go back home and the rest of us stop feeding them :)

Thank you Ben...

Only time will silence the Trolls.

I did some testing today on the dedicated wok grate with staggering results from a cooking and a safety stand point.

bump
any more decisions? we've had some more product news about both Capital culinarian (e.g wok grate) and Blue Star (V-1 now in pics on their web site)

After weeks of research, and even a decision to go mid-range instead of high, my wife and I are back on the BlueStar bandwagon. I just can't commit to being an early adopter of Culinarian without getting feedback - especially with the price tag. Trevor is a great asset to have, but who knows if you can count on him forever!

I would hope BlueStar picks up its service reputation. You would assume they should know about it by now.

I've been trying to decide between the two for some time now. At first I gave the edge to the Capital (pre-Culinarian) because of the Bluestar quality issues and because I thought I wanted a grill and the Capital's grill looked more powerful. Then I started leaning back to the Bluestar because 1) I decided the grill wasn't worth it, 2) I do most of cooking on the stove top, so I really wanted those open burners and, therefore, 3) I could roll the dice on the door issue and hope for one that never sticks. Now, with the Culinarian coming out, I'm back to Capital. To be honest I like the looks of the Bluestar a bit better (more of that pure commercial look to it). But I'm not convinced the hinge issue has been addressed in the V1. Plus I'm also looking forward to having some fun with the rotisserie. So unless the 36" Culinarian is significantly more expensive than the 36" RNB, I'm going with the Culinarian.

@sayde: is there a specific reference on the bluestar site to the V1? i'd love to see it...couldn't find it. or didn't see anything different. i ordered my rnb v1 and should have it early sept. (no color).

ebean, there is no reference. The images in banner are new and they are the V-1 -- you can see that the grates are different, and that the space between the door and the kickplate has decreased.

Hope you'll tell us how you like your Blue Star.

After a visit yesterday to a showroom in Southern California that recently set up a Blue Star display, I've made my choice. I will be purchasing a Capital Culinarian.

My reasoning is explained in details below, but first a bit about me. I'm an engineer. I test rocket engines and engine components (thus my desire for open burner flames). My interest and skills in the kitchen have been growing over the past several years; I want a range that will support continued growth. I am not an expert on ranges or cooking. You now know how to filter my opinion.

I apologize in advance for the horrible length of this post!

First of all, I was disappointed with the BS display itself, which is no fault of the BS product. Two months ago I was told by a salesman at the showroom (Universal Appliance, Studio City) that they were building what would be the largest BS showroom in California. A few weeks ago, I was told they had BS ranges in stock, but their display was delayed because of cabinetry delays. After hearing they finally had their BSs on display, I made the trip to find they had three ranges tucked off by themselves in a poorly lit area, no cabinetry in sight. The kicker was that none of the ranges were actually working. So, there is another disclosure I must make - I did not have the pleasure of actually seeing the wonderful BS burner in action. I truly hope this is not the best BS display in California.

Now for my observations. They had a 30'' range, a 36'' range, a 60'' range, and another unit that I didn't look at, appeared to be grill + griddle only. I am interested in a 30'' range, so that's where I started. After noticing it didn't have an induction fan, or a roller rack, and the details of the front top edge were different, I came to the conclusion the 30'' was an RCS, and the 36'' was an RNB. (There were no markings of any kind from the store that identified what I was looking at, and I was pleased to have been completely ignored by any salesperson for the 30 minutes I spent poking around). If I bought a BS, I would buy a 30'' RNB, so I spent my time looking at the 30'' and 36'' units. BTW, I have no idea if these units were the V1.

I think the grate design of the BS has some advantages over the CC. In general, I like the look of the BS top, which is almost non stop cast iron. The 'inner' circular grate is easy to lift off. I notice that if it is lifted, rotated 90 deg and placed back down, it sits about 1/4'' higher which may be helpful for simmering on the larger burners? Also, the inner grate can be flipped over to achieve even higher elevation above the flame. The main grate fits tightly around the starfish shaped burner and forms a bowl. I just think this is a great look. I also believe the BS grate design is less likely to cause a small pot to tip as compared to the CC. However.... The relatively heavy main burner grate is not the easiest thing to lift. I could lift it OK, but for someone who did not have great finger tip strength, I wonder if this would be an issue. If the grate was hot and oven mitts were required, I have no idea how it would be lifted. On the 30'' RCS, the center filler grate was solid, with raised Xs. Any spill on this grate would be contained, but I wonder how easy or difficult it would be to clean this grate. There was also a larger gap between the center filler grate and the adjacent burner grates than I would like to see.

With the grates removed, the burners, burner mounting method, wiring, gas distribution, and drip trays are revealed. I don't know how to describe why I felt the way I felt, but I was not impressed with overall design of the inner workings.

The burner and oven knobs looked good and had a decent feel to them. I pulled a few off (all engineers like taking things apart). Some knobs came off almost too easily. As I put them back on, I noticed that when pushed fully on, the words ''OFF'', ''HIGH'' and ''LOW'' were not uniformly visible. On a few knobs, the words disappeared partially under the circular trim, and on one knob the words were completely covered. Now I suppose this would not hamper actual use of the range, but I started doubting build quality at this point. I also wonder about the decision to not have any markings whatsoever between ''HIGH' and ''LOW''. On my current range, I find myself using the medium low, medium, medium high settings for certain tasks based on trial and error learning. I guess I would need to remember the angle of the knob or judge the height of the flame.

The oven door had an adequate feel to it while opening and closing. While fully open, the door did not rest completely flat. When I extended the bottom rack (which was a full extension roller rack), it seemed that it rested slightly on the oven door. I wasn't sure if this is intentional. The oven space seemed generously sized. I did not measure, but by eye the usable space seemed larger than the CC (the BS did not have self clean, the CC did.)

The oven floor was flat and appeared to be removable. I was able to grab it and partially lift it, which means it was not attached to the rear, front or side walls. Each corner of the floor featured three ~1'' diameter holes. If a spill happened in the oven, I would be concerned where the spill would go. It just looked odd and cheap to me.

The RNB ranges on display had two normal racks, and one full extension roller rack on the bottom position. The normal racks pulled in and out OK. The roller rack had a good solid feel to it, and the ability to fully extend was nice. While fully extended, I pressed downward on the rack and it seemed plenty sturdy, but I noticed it seemed just a bit wobbly side to side. I was able to remove this roller rack from the bottom position and place it in the middle position without too much difficulty. The rack seemed to function equally in the middle as it did on the bottom.

The drip trays seemed well built, they pulled in and out very nicely.

So, if you've made it this far, here is my summary. I decided months ago I wanted an open burner range and quickly narrowed the choices to the BS and the CC. I believed I would be happy with either range from a cooking performance standpoint. I just wanted to see both and planned to make a decision based on my gut reaction. I saw the CC at the factory (my slightly less lengthy post following that visit appears in the "are you guys serious" thread) and was able to play with the burners. I loved the CC burners. (I'm sure I would have also loved the BS burners, but did not have the pleasure to see them.) I found the fit and finish of the CC much, much better than the BS. The engineer in me was much more satisfied by the CC. Even if I was not interested in the rotisserie option offered by the Capital (and I am), I would still have found the CC a better choice for me. While I believe the number of people who own and love a BS far outnumber those who have experienced problems or poor service support from BS, I like my chances with the reliability of CC after seeing them both in person.

For me it became an easy decision, and one I made before I stepped away from the BS display yesterday. Without reservation or uncertainty, I will confidently order a CC from Trevor.

Jon

Jon, thank you so much for taking time to document everything you observed and felt. Really appreciate it. I wonder what you might have concluded if you had seen the Blue Star burners working. You have said that the CC is a demonstrably better fit and finish, and that benefit is a primary reason for your decision. And, that difference was readily observable without seeing the burners.
It is a difficult choice and it is very helpful to hear how you made your decision.

@sayde: our bs 30" rnb will be delivered in about 2 weeks and i will certainly let you know!!!!

You are welcome sayde. My CC order has now been placed. I chose a 30'' self clean w/ rotisserie, with three 23K burners and one 15K burner, and the dedicated wok grate. BTW, I sure hope I don't come off sounding like I'm trying to bash BS, because that is certainly not my intent. Both ranges are great choices. It just became clear to me that the CC is the range I felt most comfortable buying.

Jon

Sorry - huge post alert. I've been putting off commenting on my new stove until I felt I could be fair. *Hopefully* I'm close enough ;-)

I seem to be in the minority with my new-this-summer BS. The C.C. (unfortunately) wasn't even on my radar when we ordered this spring, and since I wanted open burners, the BS was pretty much the only choice. The one thing I can say, is this: BlueStar's customer service is appalling. I mean business-killingly bad. Order of events:

1) End of March: order 48" orange BS (with matching hood) on 3/31 with a 6 - 8 week lead time.

2) June - call to find out why the stove hasn't arrived. Eventually discover (after pestering Trevor to death) that BS changed the model and that it would be delayed - shouldn't be too long. Frantically reschedule all the deliveries/work/relatives we had lined up.

3) Spent the next month hounding Trevor and BlueStar to try and get some sort of approximate delivery date with no luck. Six days? Six weeks? Six months? Nobody knew anything. Also tried to get the new specs with absolutely no luck. Would it still fit in the space we built? Was the gas line in the right place? How about the power plug? Nada. We resorted to mining GardenWeb for rumors. We also massively imposed upon relatives who'd used their vacation time to come help us and had to sit twiddling their thumbs and eating take-out. General consensus is that Signature Marketing (BS's distributor) is the root of all evil, but Corporate doesn't exactly seem to be going out of their way to be helpful.

4) End of June: miracle of miracles! We're told the stove will be here in three days - almost three months to the day after it was ordered. (I think Trevor over-nighted it.) We still don't know what it will look like or if it'll fit, but at this point, we don't care. Still too paranoid to risk scheduling anything until I see the stove with my own eyes.

5) Stove arrives and fits in the hole - hallelujah!. But where's the island trim? Apparently it's "back ordered". (What's the emoticon for a man restraining his psychotic wife?) It finally arrives about a week later and completely doesn't fit. A few days, a few phone calls, and some quality time with a screwdriver, and we finally manage to wedge the thing on. Scratch that - we loosen a bunch of generic crud on the stove itself until we can wedge it on. This can not be good. Grrr.

6) Massive push to reschedule relatives, friends, and granite and appliance installs. Had to move gas line a second time to get it to fit - not sure if the problem was the schematic, the new stove, or the relatives.

7) Leave immediately for vacation we'd planned late in the summer so we'd be absolutely sure the remodel would be done. Upon return, find that elves have utterly failed to intall the backsplash during our extended absence and that we will, in fact, be spending Labor day tiling. And putting up trim. And screwing on coverplates ... Maybe we can finish Thanksgiving weekend.

*** end of saga ***

I understand that things get delayed. I understand that models are upgraded and that sometimes things go wrong. What I can not stomach is the lack of transparency.

1) They didn't tell us it would delayed - we had to call and ask where it was at the nine-week mark
2) They didn't tell us they were changing the model - we found out when we called to find out why it was late
3) They wouldn't tell us how they were changing the model - apparently we were just supposed to hope the old specs were close enough
4) They weren't able to give even an approximate date for shipping - it was week after week of, "Sorry - looks like it wasn't on the truck this week either."

Dishonestly or incompetence? We should have been informed of the changes and the possible delay at the outset. I didn't like finding out about it like it was some dirty little secret they were trying to hide. And I *really* don't like the considerable time, money, and hassle their delays cost me - had they been even remotely upfront, I could have changed most of our plans *before* they passed the point of no return. Instead, they strung me along week after week. Did they not want to lose my sale, or was it just idiots all the way down?

So, yah, I have the new BlueStar. No backsplash, but it's finally up and running.

The bad: yes, the book still says to oil the hinge on the oven door. And yes, the exterior of the oven still gets wicked hot - hot enough to burn you if you lean up against it too long. I would *never* recommend this for a house with very small children or anyone with heat insensitivity. I'm currently teaching my seven-year old (who's temperature insensitive) to always assume it's hot and to check the front of the stove with the infrared thermometer before touching it. Even the *knobs* get hot.

The good: I love the open burners. I love the cast iron. I love my custom color and my matching hood. I love the drip trays, using the half-oven as a warming oven, and being able to boil water in under 40 minutes. However my enjoyment is seriously hampered by the fear that *something will go wrong* and I'll have to deal with them again. I'm not in the least surprised that Trevor's jumping ship - they drove me crazy and I only had to deal with them for *one* delivery. My FP Dish Drawers, Miele fridge, and granite were scheduled, un-scheduled, and re-scheduled with nary a hitch, but BlueStar just never seemed able to get their act together.

The oven hinge and the hot exterior are (imho) the big, known BlueStar problems. I haven't seen the Culinarian, but if they have those problems licked, quality open burners, and customer service that wasn't subcontracted from the Eighth Circle of Hell, then they have a serious contender in a very small niche market.

No, my BlueStar wasn't a horrible, multi-year, bum-stove ordeal - it actually seems to cook pretty well. But I think I got a good enough taste of the way they handle themselves and their customers to not want anything more to do with them. And I'd advise any other open burner fans to look long at hard at the Culinarian before taking the plunge.

Maybe the CC will be enough to force BS to finally get their act together - it would be awesome if people could choose between two quality open burner stoves based solely on personal preference and not on fear of what might go wrong.

Sorry for the super length - hope it helps some of those who are on the fence.

As most around here know, I'm a BS fan recently converted to the Culinarian. This story is appalling. Being in the middle of a kitchen remodel and already juggling cabinet delivery dates, flooring install dates, and city inspectors who can't seem to follow the plan, this story is going to keep me up nights.

I have to say that it seems BS service has gone downhill in the almost 3 years since I had to deal with them. Back then, they were pretty responsive and at least returned phone calls. They seemed to communicate with the distributor and dealer on problems and be able to expedite things when fixes were required. About a year after I bought my cooktop (i.e. about two years ago), I had a heck of a time getting even a return email or phone call about a very trivial thing. Not sure what happened but hope they can turn things around. I'd hate for Capital to be the only open burner in town just like I hated that BS was the only choice back then.

Good luck. BTW, please post any hints on "restraining a psychotic wife" please. I might just need some pointers if the Culinarian gets delayed in any way. :)

So the simple questions that come to mind, from someone who does not have either and is interested in getting the "best" for the money....

1. Why would I as a consumer feel I would get better treatment than others who have bought Bluestar and live to regret it? It may only be 10% of the purchasers but what assurance would I have that I would not be in that pool?

2. Why would I not buy even a new and untested product if I felt the interest of the company to take over a market is such that along with being one of the first thus a representative to prove their market worthiness, they would go out of their way to make sure I am happy and satisfied?

3. Why would I question a sales person who is trying to sell a product that both makes his customer happy and gives him venue to sell more?

All this discussion seems to indicate is that instead of addressing the problem and figuring out how to satisfy their customers, BS seems to be going the opposite direction. Now by no means am I endorsing CC.. But absent actual experiencing it myself, and thats not possible as I am not installing both products in my home and testing them, I can only go by other folks references.

And the thing that makes GW so useful is not the people who come in and make unnecessary and useless comments but folks like amcook who if nothing educate folks like me on what to look for.

Can...will... anyone comment on the differences in the broilers? Infrared vs. glass? That could be a deal maker/breaker for me!

willinak,

Infrared heat is infrared heat whether it's gas-fired under glass or not under glass or whether it's provided from an electric heating element.

We are LOVING our BlueStar 30" V1 range. Burners are awesome, Wok cooking is stellar, baking has been even and painless, oven heats up quickly and maintains a nice stable temperature and ease of maintenance is hard to beat.

The handful of "minor" cosmetic issues we discovered when the range first arrived were handled quickly with a call to the factory warranty service number. Every part that I had a concern about was replaced with a brand new part sent free of charge from the factory. Example: We discovered a 2 inch long hairline crack in one of the four stove top bowl grates. It didn't effect the use of the range or that burner position, but it was there none the less. Bluestar sent us FOUR replacement grates and the two center cast iron panels as well, just to be safe. I commented that two of the five knobs appeared to have a light silk screening for the words HIGH, LOW etc. They sent us an entire set of replacement knobs!

I guess the way BlueStar handles customer service has changed since the bulk of these posts were written, because I have nothing but praise for the product and the company that makes it based on my personal experience as a BlueStar owner so far.

As someone else already mentioned... The squeeky wheel always gets the grease when it comes to forums like this. Most satisfied BlueStar owners don't even know this forum exists leave alone consider posting a positive comment here.

As for the heat pattern comment... LOL! If you are actually able to make out a star pattern in your frying pan, I think it is time to consider buying some professional grade cookware! ;o)

Hmmmm.......interesting that Goldengoose7 signs up a day before giving rave reviews about BlueStar's recently changed "wonderful" customer service.

We are building a new home and are almost finished with it. I want a range that actually heats a pan evenly and decided open burners would perhaps achieve that.

I also bake a great deal so it is important to me that an oven heats evenly for baking.

I have been undecided between BlueStar and Capital Culinarian. I am now leaning towards CC based on the fact that their customer service has been top notch. I do not have a tolerance for companies with poor customer service, which BS has a reputation of.

I doubt that BS has suddenly changed, and I surely don't trust someone that has just signed up on GW saying how much BS has suddenly become customer oriented.

Excellent customer service is as important to me as the quality of a product. If anyone else who has been a BS owner for some time, and has also had to deal with their customers service, and actually been pleased, I'd love to hear about your experiences.

Otherwise I'll just move in my GE profile (with the crappy sealed burners) until I can sort this one out.

Sandy

If you like to bake and you buy a Capital you will actually be able to touch the knobs on the front of the range the drip dray and the oven door anyware without burning yourself. Also you will be able to open the door, apparently Bluestar still does not have the oven door hinge freeze up issue solved. About a week ago I read a post from a guy who was able to try both ranges out side by side. He was an ex furnace man in a foundry and he found the Bluestar to be unacceptably hot. He bought a Capital as did I. Two weeks ago my wife baked eight dozen cinnimon rolls and they turned out the best ever. Just remember to let the oven cycle on and off three times (true of any gas oven) before baking breads pies etc. Not necessary for pizza casseroles etc.

What's the purpose of letting it cycle three times? To ensure temperature stability? What if I keep a stone inside the oven? Do I still wait for the cycles? I'm guessing the cycling will be faster with the stone. But then again, maybe not since it will take longer to lose temperature. It would also take longer to come up to the initial temp too.

Thanks so much caddidaddy55! I wanted to be sure I make the right choice before shelling out what one of these ranges cost. I tried contacting EuroStoves for feedback as well but couldn't get through yesterday. I'll try again today.

The nearest CC for me to actually go look at is about a 4 or 5 hour drive away but I think it would be worth looking at it. They have the 36 inch to look at.

My husband called CC and they were very helpful in trying to locate somewhere we could actually go look at one. I was impressed with their degree of customer service. They said we may be a bit on our own for repairs if needed due to our location but my husband is capable of handling simple parts that may need replaced.

It will be so nice to cook if this range lives up to my expectations.

Sandy

Sandy808, for what it's worth, I also bought a CC. It's not installed yet, but could be as soon as next week. Prior to my purchase I was also considering a BS or a Wolf. I have no worries that the CC will perform every bit as well if not better than a BS, Wolf, Viking or any other range short of an actual commercial range.

I believe Trevor is still having phone issues as a result of hurricane Irene. Hang in there and reach out to him through this forum if necessary. I've met him and he is every bit as helpful and straightforward in person as he is online.

Disclaimer: I did not buy my range through Trevor. I bought it through another area dealer for personal economic and logistic reasons not related to Trevor. But I still plug him, because I believe in him and what he does.

sandy808, just for the record. There have been numerous posts by other GW members of BS's new improved Customer Service, over the past while. It seems they did a big corporate shuffle several months ago and ever since "Mandy" has been handling/heading customer service they seemed to have improved greatly. Hopefully its not too little too late. Although I think Capital is a good company, to be honest, I can not get past the (IMHO) unattractive styling of the range.

Since we finished our remodel in December I haven't spent much time here. I'm back briefly because I'm looking for appliances for a duplex we rent out.

I'm a very happy BlueStar rangetop owner. I'm regards to Goldengoose's praise of BlueStar's service, I want to say that I totally agree and have had the same good experience with BlueStar's service.

Like Goldengoose I had a problem with my burners. They arrived with some chips in the enamel finish. BlueStar promptly and without questions asked send me a whole new set of burners and grates.

The whiteglove service was stellar. The service person was very knowledgable and friendly. He even volunteered advice and tips on the operation of my dishdrawers and discussed the merits of my other appliances.

Every time I turn a burner on or even walk past my rangetop I fall in love all over again. Besides it's fabulous functionality I totally dig it's basic, rugged, no-nonsense, I cook stuff look. I appreciate the fact there is no excessive use of stainless, (which manufacturers seem to think convey a "pro" look), just the amount needed to hold it together.

No regrets here, that's for sure.

sandy808, if warm knobs bother you please, by all means, buy the CC. They seem to have solved the problem by having much more space between the oven door and the knobs, which might explain the really low oven clearance in the CC (9.5" as compared to Bluestar's 12?)

I'm still waiting for the dang hinges on my Bluestar to freeze up. I just don't get it, I hear on GW it's guaranteed to happen!

Are you going to check my sign-up date now?

Do us Bluestar owners a favor and buy the CC! :)

-Stooxie

I understand that the oven door on older versions of the BlueStar RNB could get quite warm (I've heard this described as "very warm" and "surprisingly warm" by two personally-known owners and in various ways by folks posting on the internet). My range is from this spring, 2011 -- I wouldn't say notably warm for either the door or the knobs. I can place my hand flat on the oven door, while the oven's in action, without any discomfort -- half a second, ten seconds, it just doesn't matter. It's not hot. Three kids and two small dogs and it's a non-issue.

The culinarian is probably a very fine product -- certainly the specs look good and far be it from me to dispute anybody's happiness with his or her purchase. Folks should keep in mind that problems and praise for that range or any other on this board -- for all of this board's virtues -- represent a very small number of reports that may be more or less representative (or wildly unrepresentative) of the larger universe of consumer experience. With the culinarian, especially, we're talking about a very small number of reports on a fairly new product. Reported problems have not been many, but they have not been zero. Reports on Trevor's interventions have been very, very favorable, but not everybody has been instantly pleased by the company itself. I really don't mean to suggest that there are any major problems with the product or the company -- not at all. And for any particular person, for all I know, this may be an excellent choice -- maybe the best one possible. But surely folks know that the record is limited?

As the OP having started this thread over a year ago when I was in the throes of the decision, I'm back to say we have had our BS V1 30 RNB for several months and are very pleased. I love cooking on those burners. The oven so far has been fine though have not used it much. Was sent new center grates, twice and a complete new set of skins since the original ones received a small dent in transit. Also a new gliding rack to replace the one that came broken. Everything was dispatched and received within a day or so of my phone call. We replaced the skins ourselves, with Mandy on the line to talk us through it. It's clear that Blue Star woke up and got customer service religion, and then the V-1, and I feel really fortunate that the timing of my purchase decision coincided with these two developments.

If I were to have a problem with the hinges down the road I now feel pretty convinced that Blue Star would take care of it.

I had wanted the Blue Star all along but had been anxious about it because of all the complaints posted on this board. I vacillated between Blue Star and Wolf for a long time (til I saw them both in person) and then considered the CC as well -- but am really happy I stayed with the Blue Star.

The Culinarian really isn't that new, the burners are. It is essentially an enhanced Precision with new burners. Before I bought a CC, I was getting a BS. But before that I was heavily favoring a Precision. I had also been looking at Wolf, Viking, Thermadore, Jade and American Range. Before I found open burners, IMHO, the Precision was the best value for performance, features and price in the sealed burner market. That was over four years ago. I came full circle when Capital introduced the open burners last year. I bought the CC without hesitation.

I too was planning to buy a BS when I switched to CC after hearing the stories here and seeing a BS in person. Why in the world would I want to deal with Bluestar when they treat their customers so poorly and are so slow to fix their design and/or manufacturing issues. It tells you a lot about their poor management. BS customer service will have to be top notch for years before they regain a good reputation.

I visited CC and met their president, Surjit Kalsi. He is a classy top-notch guy and a heck of an engineer and businessman. Who is behind Bluestar? I have never heard a name... to me it's a no-brainer if you're in the market for a new open burner cooking machine -- go CC.

Billy

I will say that the choice is extremely difficult to make. I just want a range that performs properly and cooks evenly. I am willing (within reason of coarse) to pay what it takes to achieve that. I cook from scratch and am tired of mediocre stoves.

However, I do not want to shell out several thousand dollars and have poor customer service or continual warranty issues. With any company. Now I am seeing a post with burner grates on a Capital that I would not be happy with.

This is very frustrating. It's enough to make a person just deal with a mediocre range that's inexpensive.

Sandy

sandy808, so what's the issue now? If you're really stuck and feel that you absolutely have to get it right, then take Trevor Lawson up on his open offer. Fly up to Boston. He'll pick you up at the airport, bring you to his shop and let you cook on the range. He'll even let you cook on any other range he has set up. Last time I was there he still had a BS left over from when he did sell them. If he still has it, I'm sure he'll even let you cook on that too. You can't beat head-to-head.

Well, I had a nice long conversation with Trevor this evening. We discussed the way I cook, the style of my new home....basically lots of different things. While Trevor said Blue Star is a good range and didn't say anything bad about them, I came away from our conversation feeling the 48 inch capital Culinarian is the right range for me.

I am absolutely thrilled to find out that I don't have to have a sleek all stainless range. It just isn't the right look for my home, as I love vintage things, and am styling my kitchen that way. Trevor said that there are now 10 colors available and different metal finishes that can be had to blend in with the hood (such as oil rubbed bronze). I have a great deal to look at tomorrow on their website.

Even if I had to "settle" for stainless, (and I am not knocking stainless at all), I would have done so as cooking performance and good customer service is still more important to me than how it looks. It's nice to be able to have both.

I am very tempted to go to EuroStoves and cook on them first, but am not sure I can get away before I will need the range. I have no problem after speaking with Trevor with purchasing a CC without seeing one first.

I do feel cooking with him would teach me a thing or two about cooking though:)