Do I go tankless water heater or wait for 75-gal gas heater?
14 years ago
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tankless water heater - 50 gl water heater???
Comments (19)There is a LOT of disinformation on these forums about on-demand tankless units, ESPECIALLY the electric units. First, energy cost savings is NOT a reason in itself to make the switch. No reason alone is sufficient. It is the total package, in light of your particular lifestyle, that will dictate the pro-con outcome of the decision making process. First, tankless units save space -- a lot of it, especially electric units that do not need to be vented. In Texas we have no basements, so that can be an important issue. Second, an electric unit is unlikely to blow up, unlike anything using natural gas. Third, there is an endless supply of hot water, which in a successive-morning-shower household like mine, is a really important issue. And finally, yes there is some documented comp fuel savings (electric tankless over electric tanks, or gas over gas), that is really offset by the added initial cost of the unit plus upgraded electrical service or gas supply line sizing. Moreover, there ARE full-house electric units out there that provide plenty of water, unless you plan on taking two showers simultaneously while also doing your laundry and running the dishwasher! And if that's your bag, you can run 2 or more electicals together. Or get a really big gas unit. Bottom line, nearly every nay-sayer of tankless units ignore the pros and focus on a single con - cost, cost, cost. Well, we all don't drive a Ford Focus for a reason. Some of us enjoy our Buicks, Porsches or Camrys even though another car would get us from point A to point B cheaper while using less fuel etc etc etc. Full disclosure: I have a Steibel Eltron Tempra 36 whole-house electric unit. Love it. My electric bill went up nary at all....See MoreDo I go tankless water heater or wait for 75-gal gas heater?
Comments (7)We don't have much info to go on. We don't know what your needs are, what your wants are or what your budget is. All we really know is that you want gas in the event that the electricity is out. A tankless requires a small amount of electricity to operate - it would not operate if the power was out. A generator would solve that problem and provide power for other things as well. I don't completely agree with Dan, you can size a tankless to run more than one thing at a time. I sized mine so that in the coldest part of the year I could run the shower and the bathroom faucet - in the summer I can run about twice that amount. It works fine in my house, but if I had a larger family I'd go with a larger unit. There are also 50 gal Hybrid units - They store the water but have high BTU input and very high efficiency. They can produce a certain amount of continuous hot water as well. These meet the 30% tax credit requirements and vent with PVC pipe - making them cheap to install where long vent runs are needed. I have included an example - I'm not endorsing a particular brand. Note that these would not run without a small amount of electrical power. Here is a link that might be useful: State Hybrid...See MoreInsulating 75 gal Water Heater
Comments (6)I can remember back in the late 50s and early 60Âs when fuel was cheap the water heaters were operated at 180degF and they had no insulation or external jacketing. In those days there was a great concern that people were accidentally bumping up against the water heaters and receiving severe burns. The standards were then amended requiring that all water heaters must have a minimum of ¾" of fiberglass insulation, a sheet metal jacket and under no circumstance could the external temperature of the unit exceed 140degF under normal operation. During the first fuel crisis in the mid 70Âs people were encouraged to install additional insulation blankets to reduce the standby losses from the water heater, however it was soon realized that if an insulation blanket is improperly installed it interferes with the normal function of the water heater thermostats and temperature & pressure relief valves causing very erratic temperatures and in some instances creating safety issues. In addition, quite often when the insulation blankets are improperly installed they interfere with the normal flow of combustion air and result in very high levels of carbon monoxide. In the late 80Âs the plumbing codes were again amended requiring that ALL water heaters must now have a minimum of R-12 insulation. REF: International Residential Code IRC-504.2.1(en) Uniform Plumbing Code UPC-150(j)1A(c ) The codes specifically sayÂ"No external blankets required" Many local codes have amended that wording to say "External Blankets Prohibited". In my jurisdiction there is a $50 fine for even selling a water heater blanket. In order to meet the new insulation standards most water heater manufacturers have discontinued the use of fiberglass insulation and they now use cast in foam insulations, which often far exceed the required R-12 minimum Everyone seems to be fixated on the supposed high energy wasted to standby losses from a tank type water heater, but in reality such is not the case. Two years ago our plumbing apprenticeship class, in co-operation with the local gas company and a number of local hardware stores, appliance dealers and plumbing suppliers set up a project to test the actual cost of water heater standby losses. Twelve different makes and models of residential contractor grade 50gal gas tank type water heaters were installed in an unheated warehouse. All 12 units were fed from a common water line and each water heater is supplied through a separate gas meter. Each water heater is then fitted with one line on the output side that terminates into a keyless hose bib beside the unit, thus there is no demand from these water heaters therefore they represent standby losses only. The water heaters were then filled and left standing with the thermostats set at the code maximum of 120degF. Every month the gas meters are read and the fuel cost is computed at the standard residential rate for this area. After two years of following this project it has been determined that the monthly average standby loss is $5.02. (The worst case in the test is averaging $5.87mo.) I might add that two of the water heaters in this test have specific wording in their installation manuals that states the addition of an insulation blanket will void the warranty....See MoreValue of 96% HE 75gal water heater vs. 80% standard 75gal water heater
Comments (11)Those numbers are definitely gas. $2800 seems like a lot. Longevity is of course variable and paying more probably gets you greater longevity. I haven't looked in a while but Marathon sold ones that significantly outlasted average ones. The first question is what is your fuel? NG is cheap and Propane is not (well it is relatively cheap now but more variable). Next is - not sure where you heard that tankless is not good. I have my issues with tankless but they should be considered. I have one in a new rental townhome and the water takes a long time to get hot. That is an issue but doesn't have to be. Some of that is plumbing but some is the nature of tankless. But in general tankless is the goto for many. It is a lot cheaper than $2800 and gives you 96% typically. Third question is why not use electricity? Heat pump hot water heater makes sense in a lot of environments. But you need to have the room and sound isolation. Lastly, there is some value still for solar hot water if you are concerned about being a good steward for the environment. Best if you don't have room for heat pump hot water. It also will outlast a heat pump. We paid about $7k but got $5k in incentives so it was a minimal cost to us for a good 80 gal tank with install. When considering the options, I always think it is good to remember that gas can not be created in a renewable fashion but electricity can. Also many electric utilities offer rebates for highly efficient electric devices. Many would be surprised but there is a growing return to electric resistance type hot water heaters for this reason. Particularly POU devices that eliminate the wait (and waste) of distributing hot water. I am still trying to figure out Duke Energy's incentives but I think we may be going back to solar if the incentives are still there....See MoreRelated Professionals
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