Both are good dishwashers and I have researched both. I am going for the Miele because it has received very good reviews on this forum. Miele makes 6 models. Advanta, Inspira, Diamante, Optima, Excella, and La Perla. I was told that their two lower end will be replaced with one new model. I'm chosing between the Optima and the Excella. The Optima has a Q3 Acoustics, Excella Q4, La Perla Q5. Optima has 6 wash programs, Excella has 19 wash programs. It all depends on what your needs are. I like the cutlery tray in the Miele as well as the three sprayers. Retail price for the Optima is $1849 and Excella $2149. Hope this was helpful.

I've got the Inspira and it's fine. The cutlery rack it's great and the unit is quiet. I would have bought the optima only if I needed the water softener otherwise I don't see why it's worth much more money.

We would have gotten the Inspira, but liked the bottom rack configuration better (for our loading style) on the Optima. Also figured the water softener would be good to have in our area. We didn't feel the need to go up to a higher level than that, although other GW'ers love their Excella's and La Perla's. I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

I have the La perla and love it. Everything comes out clean and it is quiet and uses very little water, has sensor cycles that adjust according to soil load, load size, has a bunch of different cycles some of which provide reduced cycle times, washes in one part of the DW at a time to reduce water consumption and noise, adjusts water temp to soil level...The DW I had before was a Miele and it was good. I had it 10 years without problem and only got this new one because I redid the kitchen.

What I look for is good performance and something that is at least built with the intention of having it last a while.

Many many people like the Bosch. My neighbors have them and most like them.. If you look at their web site you see that they have also received the JD powers award.

I did not chose Bosch because:

I had the Miele and knew how it was made and performed and mine had built a good reputation with me.

The Bosch is designed for the U.S.A market and has some variation to what is sold elsewhere and I was uncomfortable about that.

The Miele( at the time ) had a more advanced washing system, used less water and still has a better drying system(except for the advanta) than I thought the bosch did.

The racks seem to be more flexible but then again the racks were similar to what I was used to.

My previous Miele was connected to it's own drain line and not the disposal so the drain goes straight down through the floor...no high loop is necessary. My newer one does the same thing.

From previous experience I knew that the machine would act and adjust itself to various conditions that you would never think about and things that are not advertised...all to come out with a clean load. I found this out from having my previous DW and also a Miele Washer.

Features vary by model so you should order their brochure which describes each model. The only model I am cautious about is the advanta because it has a convection drying system that basically does nothing. The other models have a fan assisted drying mechanism which works well.

If you are looking for Bang for the buck--not sure you will find that with Miele because you can get a Bosch cheaper.

I think of the Miele models the Optima has the best bang for the buck, if cost is a concern and if you don't need all the higher end features. The Optima has just enough of the important features (such as sensor washing) without catapulting you into a vastly higher price bracket.

That said, I bought a Diamante because the basket configuration worked better for us than the configuration on the higher-end models. (Seemed better for someone who uses a lot of deep bowls as opposed to plates.)

Agree that if one has narrowed selection down to Miele then the OPTIMA would be the one to get if cost is a concern.

Nothing wrong with anyone getting what is best for them either! That's what choice is supposed to be about.

I too spun for a good while between B and M when I bought mine 2.5 years ago. Basically, it seemed ludicrous to me to spend $1K on a dishwasher although I did cough that up for my machine. I could not /cannot see myself spending twice that on something as mundane as a DW. Although I thought all these upmarket brands were ridiculously priced, I did like the low consumption rates on these brands which is why I was looking between these same two brands - and I wanted the quiet features of these guys. But, I did not have the clarity that some attain in selecting between a Miele and a Bosch. Basically, I could not see much earthly qualitative difference between them so I seized opportunity and when I found the very DW that met my needs, I bought it. In other words - I bought the machine and not the brand.

My little mini-rant: some of these brands are peddled as "luxury brands". Well, I just want to know what sort of dull-as-ditch-water lives people live or that marketing types think they live, that any dishwasher of any sort would comprise a "luxury" over another - well, any more than the merest existence of one in the house. A DW is a workhorse - there is no amount of dressing it up with Teutonic names and hidden controls and LEDs that would make me think of it as a luxury. Toy, barely. Luxury no. Same with the vacuum cleaner - I have a Miele canister which I love but strike me down before I regard my VC which I have to push around my house every week, as a luxury.

Re: I got the mid-level (500series?) Bosch - hidden control, flat-panel with the delay start and the top-wash only modes, and the straight bar handle (amazingly, this was the clincher for us! & I said I don't believe in luxury in DWs). These were the features in addition to the quiet and low H20/power consumption that I was looking for. I don't recall all the modes on it coz personally I thought half of the many moded modes were nonsensical. As it is, I need to accumulate 3 to 5 days worth of dishes for a wash and there is no way I can have a homogeneous enough set of dishes to wash 'em all on anything other than "normal", or "Rinse & Hold" or even "China/delicate" (& that takes some jiggering). Even when we have a party and generate tons of dishes, it is usually because there are so many types of foods consumed from all those dishes, so there's no way I'd have enough dishes in the dishwasher to wash by the food group or the meal course. The DW has worked wonderfully for 2.5 years although it spent about 3-4 months holding down the floor whilst our remodel. It is very quiet - not always silent, depending up the load - it has always washed and dried very well. I don't have the wet plastics problems others have spoken of unless a bowl has tipped over and caught all the water. Holding capacity - for me, it holds a ton as it usually runs about 1-2 times a week. I don't really want to hang onto a dirty dish for longer than 5 days. Personally, having had it now, I would have liked to have gotten a model that in addition to my three or so requirements up top, had more of those "half fold down rows" as one of my racks has two full length fold down rows of tines and that becomes a bother when I wish to fold 'em down for a dish or two but not the entire width of the DW.

Another very pleased with a mid level Bosch. Everything is clean, it is quiet and done with energy efficiency. That is all I really wanted in a DW.

I also had to narrow it down to Miele or the less expensive Bosch. Both are quiet and efficient. I decided to go Miele because I couldn't find a bad comment about them and I loved the silverware tray.

I chose the 2nd tier Miele (Diamante) over the 3rd tier (Optima). My friend has tier 1 (Advanta) and it is very quiet. Over the Diamante, the Optima offers a crystal setting, fancier lower rack and a Q3 instead of Q2 sound rating. While I liked those extras, I didn't like the look of the control panel. It had a useful LED display in a small black section. This stood out on the stainless trim, but looks fine in the black trim.

I should mention Miele offers hidden controls in all tiers, but that adds about $400 to the price in each tier. And the models above tier 3 (Optima) just seemed to sport gimicky features which I really don't need.

Ed

I have one of the models above the Optima and am wondering what features you found to be gimicky. Would you share your thoughts on those?

Thanks for all the info. Sounds like Miele has some real fans. Does anyone know how the Q3, Q4 etc. translate into decibels? This is what would be the clincher for me I think - as I am sure both do a fine job. As they run for an hour or so and we have a desk/office/phone alcove in our kitchen, quietness is a big factor in our decision. Thanks again

This is what I think

Q5 is 42 DB
Q4 is 44 DB
Q3 is 48 DB

Mindstorm wrote:
My little mini-rant: some of these brands are peddled as "luxury brands". Well, I just want to know what sort of dull-as-ditch-water lives people live or that marketing types think they live, that any dishwasher of any sort would comprise a "luxury" over another - well, any more than the merest existence of one in the house. A DW is a workhorse - there is no amount of dressing it up with Teutonic names and hidden controls and LEDs that would make me think of it as a luxury. Toy, barely. Luxury no. Same with the vacuum cleaner - I have a Miele canister which I love but strike me down before I regard my VC which I have to push around my house every week, as a luxury.

I've never heard anyone refer to any appliance brand as a "luxury" brand except for you -- perhaps this is more your mindset?

There are degrees of quality, function, appearance, design, etc., and you pay for those things. Gaggenau, Miele, Viking, Dacor, Wolf, etc., have all built unique brand promises, but you'd be hard pressed to get any of these companies to say "our appliance is a luxury appliance" because that is not what they are selling. Judge each brand on its own merits.

I bought the Miele La Perla because I wanted THE BEST. That doesn't mean it's a "luxury dishwasher" -- I don't even know what that means -- but I do know that you pay extra for thoughtfulness of design, technology, and function. My La Perla is a pleasure to use, makes the kitchen look striking, and cleans like a champ. It automatically adjusts the hardness of the water for optimum cleaning results, and has an array of cycle options that cover every kind of contingency. To me it was worth it, and will be a selling point someday when I sell my house -- the two most important things when you sell a house are curb and kitchen appeal.

I had a chance to look at a Bosch recently, and I'm being honest when I say that I wasn't all that impressed. The bottom spray arm is plastic, and the various plastic components inside the machine had such rough edges that I almost cut myself at the showroom. If the visible components are designed this way, just imagine what the insides must be like.

I don't think you can go wrong with the Miele.

I've never heard anyone refer to any appliance brand as a "luxury" brand except for you

ss: always glad to oblige:

Off-GW: Luxury kitchen appliances from google. Note that some of these are perfectly legitimate uses of luxury. Others want to sell you or point you explicitly to "luxury appliances" - a term you contend I have coined. Those are the ones that are germane here.

On-GW: One particular link I picked up. Others can also be found.

I bought the Miele La Perla because I wanted THE BEST. Sorry, I'm an engineer. You'll have to define "THE BEST".

ut I do know that you pay extra for thoughtfulness of design, technology, and function.
And how much do you pay for the "Cheese" cycle? :-)

My La Perla is a pleasure to use, makes the kitchen look striking, and cleans like a champ.
I'm really glad to hear that your machine is washing well again. Was it not you who was posting a daily update on what was left on your dishes in every wash? Perhaps I've got my dishwasher complainants mixed up.

To me it was worth it,
And really, that is all that is important. You want to be able to strike a balance between feeling short-changed and feeling like a purchase is overkill. I'm sure the DW was "THE BEST" for you.
To me, at $2K+, it would have to polish my silverware and put the dishes away in the kitchen to be worth it. 'Coz otherwise, I gotta say, I prefer the uniform, displayless face of my flat panel DW, water parameters entering my house doesn't really change and my machine functions very well with the water feed I do have, and I've not had a problem with cleaning or drying.

The bottom spray arm is plastic,
True.
And that is bothersome because ???

and the various plastic components inside the machine had such rough edges that I almost cut myself at the showroom.
Wow. You must have skin like a dream. I just went over my DW interior looking for someway to be injured and couldn't find one. There is nylon covering metal on the racks. The arm is plastic but where you could have poked your fingers to find rough edges, I can't imagine. The soap dispenser, the wheels and the supports for the flip-down rows are plastic but I can't find any place to cut yourself on. Forget the DW, I just want to know what moisturizer you use.

Anyhow, you clearly know more about dishwashers than I do if you can be impressed or unimpressed by the interior by virtue of a static scan. The primary parameters that I go by are dynamic and operational - quietude, cleaning capability, drying capability and longevity. The one question I can't answer just now is the last one.

I'm not in the business of peddling any appliance brand so I couldn't care less if the OP buys a Bosch or buys any other brand. I have a Miele VC and Miele w/d so I know Miele makes good products. I'm sure others do a good job too. I'm just citing my favorable experience with my particular 500-series Bosch dishwasher for the poster - I don't know and don't think i would have liked the Bosch 300 series (rack configurations and quietness govern this) and I don't know that I would have cared for some of the gimmicry of the 800 series.

I have the 800 series and love the gimmicry. Love, love, love the information light shining on the floor and the different racks folding down, the pads on the front of the basket to push the basket, etc. Had a Bosch basic model for ten years and really liked it but got tired of constantly opening the door to see if I remembered to turn it on and having water spilling out. It's the little things that make me happy. All these things are certainly not necessary for clean dishes, but at this point in my life I figured what the heck. There's something for everyone and every budget.

Mindstorm,

I'm simply expressing an opinion, that's why we are all here, so I can't help it if it doesn't agree with yours. As far as I'm concerned, Miele is the best dishwasher brand when it comes to technology and build quality. I knicked my hand at the store trying to adjust the cup racks (or whatever they're called) on the upper basket, and that's just indicative to me of the overall build quality. A plastic lower spray arm is not what I expect from a top-line appliance -- it's something you see in low end units, which tells me corners are being cut.

I did have cleaning issues with my La Perla -- to the point of being maddening -- until I realized that I was being very sloppy with my loading style. The issue was further exacerbated by my switching to Ecover dishwaser tabs, which caused grit and residue to build up inside the machine. Once I switched back over to Cascade, the problems vanished.

I wasn't too crazy at first about how the La Perla racks were set up, but now that I've had the unit for a while I've become more familiar with how things lay out. There could always be improvements -- for instance I would make the plate tines in the front of the lower rack removable.

For the practical purpose of washing dishes, you probably can't go wrong with either a Bosch or Miele -- plenty of satisfied customers on both sides of the camp. There are differences in each company's approach to cleaning dishes, and I happen to prefer Miele's approach. I have also had a 100% satisfactory experience with Miele support.

A plastic lower spray arm is not what I expect from a top-line appliance -- it's something you see in low end units, which tells me corners are being cut.

??? Miele dishwashers have plastic spray arms on both its two the upper racks. But specifically, a lower spray arm in plastic indicates to you that the machine went from being a beacon of precision engineering to a slap-dash job?

Okay. Well, then, my suggestion to you is to make sure you don't fly on either Boeing's new 787 or the new Airbus A380 aircraft. Both have significantly used plastic-based composites for their structural members - the lift surfaces, fuselage, empennage, horizontal beams - certainly enough to give them an "F" for cutting corners by your standards. Both claim that they are trying to reduce weight and increase the lift-to-mass ratio, but surely, that is a euphemism for them "cutting corners", no? And here I thought to be impressed by that ... .

Must say I do so love these ad-hoc design criteria.