I went through the same indecision. I loved the look of the Wolf but then started reading about problems with the 2007 models. I do not believe they have resolved this yet. To bad because Wolf had a wonderful reputation. I was nervous, didn't want problems so I ended up with the AG DCS and it is very nice. Fairly new so I haven't had the 5 burners going at once yet. The simmer on all burners is unbelievable!!! The infrared broiler is great. Many people here say the stainless steel top is easier to keep clean vs black top. On the first page of the appliances scroll down and do a search of each.

Wolf had problems with the all gas ranges. I think the dual fuels are received quite well.

eandhl: Thanks for this! I'm really leaning toward that DCS now. What's the AG DCS? Well, I'm actually headed into my dealer later this morning so hopefully I can check it out. I hate hearing about ANY problems with Wolf/Viking. I wonder if these very professional models work best for, well, professionals who have no choice but live with the idiosyncrasies of very exacting equipment. I'm not going to hang myself for the most sexy knob. Glad to hear you're happy with it!

AG stands for all gas (as opposed to dual fuel). I also have the DCS AG - had it for 5 years and I'm very pleased - the all gas version has an awesome infrared broiler - great for doing steaks. The Wolf dual fuel also gets good reviews - it's recent AG models that have been having problems. If you're willing to consider all gas, you should look at Capital as well - the founders came over from DCS.

Wolf AG has been having problems. Wolf DF has had great reviews on this board. I chose Wolf DF over DCS DF because of Wolf customer service reputation. So far I LOVE my Wolf DF!! Don't write it off just yet!

Thanks, Mary. Now that I know (thanks to weissman) what DF is I'm happy to hear the Wolf DF has NOT been problematic. I love the look of Wolf and if it's truly hassle free it should definitely still be a consideration. These choices are fun and agonizing all at once!

Just got through making PERFECT stuffed chicken puff pastries in my Wolf DF set on convection. Used the temperature probe and they came out so moist and the pastry perfectly browned. The top of the stove is easy to clean. I'm really happy with it.

i finished a kitchen remodel within the past year, and got a 30" Viking dual fuel range. I have had a thermador and wolf cooktop in the past, and a thermador oven in the past.

my current setup (viking dual fuel 30") is the nicest overall cooking unit i've had. I love using it. No real complaints.

comments: the wolf cooktop had a better simmer (finer settings/low temp) but was a pain to clean. the viking is much easier to clean (both sealed burners). the thermador oven was maybe a little more even with the heat, but the viking has more variety in the settings (convection broil, mini-broil, all the other settings as well). Also, the viking oven preheats in no time at all, it's actually freakishly fast....however, internal oven size is not as spacious as the thermador was (although it is plenty big enough for everything i do)

highly advise you to see the units in person..

i suspect if you get any of the three you've mentioned your going to be happy.

i would not hesitate to get the viking again.

P.S., be sure and get at least a 600 CFM fan...these boys generate plenty of smoke if your into searing meats on the cooktop..

None of them. We had a professional range for several years. We have friends who have professional ranges. They are nothing but trouble. These stoves are incredibly difficult to keep clean. Consume enormous amount of gas and most of the produced heat go to heat the kitchen. The lighting mechanisms are defective. Close to impossible to get proper service. No home kitchen needs four or five 15-22 KBTU burners. We had difficulty cooking rice, heating milk, heating or making soup, making tea. These burners are so big that they are only good for large fry pans, very large pots but not regular utensils. They are certainly good for restaurants for chefs with assistants but not for home cook who needs to do a number of different cooking, not just stir-fry, in a home setting.

Consumer reports gave a very succinct recommendations about home ranges. We found the recommendations are right on the money. In particular, they recommended that a perfect range should have two high powered burners (like 15 or 18 KBTU) and one or two medium (9 to 10 KBTU) and one low (5 KBTU). That is a perfect combination. New ranges with such combination are coming to the market.

We sold our restaurant-style pro range and bought an electrolux stainless steel range for $2199 from Loew's. It is simply outstanding. It is stunning looking range with all five burners from 5-18 KBTU, two ovens with timers and controls. The convection is about twice as fast as our ex-prorange in baking potato, pizza etc. It fits with our Thermadors extremely well. My gas bill is down almost 50 Therms.

In summary, the restaurant-style (or true restaurant) pro-ranges are gimmicks and inferior. Basically these are cheap restaurant ranges marketed with hype to unsuspecting consumers. That is teh summary of our experience with pro-range.

Mary in NC: Any leftovers?

samr: Thanks for bringing up the elephant-in-the-room (kitchen?). The idea that a pro range is over the top for even finicky residential users like myself has definitely occurred to me. Right now I'm cooking on a Bosh DF with convection that truly rocks! It's 30" had a huge oven, a perfect simmer for soups, stews and melting butter (put it in the pan and walk away) and even a large warming drawer. The only thing wrong with it is the styling of the controls which are above the range in a chunky display where I'd prefer to see a minimal stainless back splash. That's my only complaint. And, yes, the Bosh probably cost about $2,500,000.

This new kitch will be a step up with all the appliances. One thing I know I don't want is some kind of finicky energy sucker or to vaporize my prized Italian stainless steel pots/pans. I was beginning to think about going for the DCS "30 DF and a Wolf single oven. Now I'm lost again!

Look seriously at the Thermador. Less costly, excellent sealed burners than some other models (easier cleaning), better service history than Viking (actually, everyone reports better repair history than Viking). Auto-simmer restart is important feature for the lowest burner settings I'm told. I'm making the same decisions. Thanks for your question.

Auto-simmer restart sounds like a euphemism for the fact that Thermador simulates simmer by turning the burner on and off continuously - with a click each time it relights - some people are bothered by this, others aren't - Wolf, DCS etc. have real simmer with a separate simmer ring on each burner. All (most?) gas burners reignite automatically if the burner goes out.

Alyson,

Electrolux took care of the problem with control knobs. The five control knobs are small stainless and low profile. The elctronic controls are invisible until you touch the screen. It is extremely sophisticated in function and appearance. We have a 42" Thermador SS hood and a 42" Viking backsplash and electrolux 30" range. All three integrate seamlessly. We looked at Theramdor range also and did not like four 15 K burners. Same with DCS. If you email me I can send you a picture of the three.

I vote Wolf DF - Have one (6 months) Love it. and the convection is sooooo wonderful.

samr: sorry to be stupid but how do I find your email address? I'd like to see your set up. I must say my Bosh stays on a constant simmer when using the simmer burner -- it's just that low -- Love that! I kind of hate electronic controls (which also do come with the Bosh). I like the simple/stupid functionality of knobs. And the warm, retro aspect.

sanborn: can you define sooooo wonderful? I'm still thinking I could do the Wolf single oven under counter. When I saw it I nearly fainted. It was just that beautiful. And, no, can't define without getting wordy.

I'm still all perplexed about the DF range -- which to me is all about ease and efficiencies. I really don't want to be a fuel guzzler. I think Samr said it right when he suggested manufacturers are only just starting to address the middle ground in the marketplace. Right now its this or that. That being a super chef stove. This: all else.

Right now I'm thinking Wolf, DCS or Something Else ...

alyson - we are going through the same thing and now I'm confused as well.

Samr - i like your electrolux idea is this the one you have (link below)? Is it weird/difficult to have the controls on top by the burners if so? I was hoping that if I stepped away from the "pro ranges" that I would get more oven space, but it appears that the 30" electrolux and DCS (my front runner at the moment) both have 4.2 cubic feet. We don't pay for our own gas (billed to the building) so that is not as big of a concern, but I do hear and value your other points.

oops forgot the electrolux link

Here is a link that might be useful: electrolux 30

beantowner: Oh my God, thanks for posting the electrolux specs. I'm so frightened! No bulbous back splash controls. And a warming drawer beneath (love that combo!). But The Name. THE NAME! I've been holding back. The only reason I was able to grow up in Old Greenwich, CT as a kid was my Mom was able to find a house on the same block as the (then) Electrolux factory -- making it the only cheap block in town! At that time they made only Vacuum cleaners. When did they get into ranges??? Although I think samr is onto a great truth I'm not sure I'm ready to give up the chase. Very conflicted.

Here is the link for the one I bought at Loews:
http://www.electroluxappliances.com/node31.aspx?categoryid=1006&productid=18093
This is an all gas model. It also has a dual fuel version.

All burner control knobs are in the front and the oven control is on the touch pad. After we bought this range, we realized how much engineering and design can go into a range and how much difference it can make. It has two ovens: upper oven is a convection oven/broiler 4.2 cu ft and the lower bakes and doubles as a warming drawer. Both ovens have separate electronic controls and timers.

But it may not be the right range for everyone. Anyone considering it should go to Lowes and see it before buying. We were there to buy some light bulbs and saw it because of the big display and it was just what we were looking for. We bought it right there.
Alyson, pictures are here (hope it works):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27775932@N08/

samr:
I generally don't try to debate a single post, but I found your first post too oversimplified to resist comment :-) To condemn all "professional ranges" seems overly simplistic at best. Some complaints are likely applicable to some ranges. No range can be accused of having all of the issues you list. To wit:

"consume enormous amounts of gas." Gas consumption is determined by how high you run the burners, not how high the maximum BTU rating is. If you're putting out 2K BTU's, you're using roughly the same amount of gas whether it be on a 5K or 15K burner. There is some validity if you use a small pan over an overly large burner as some heat is wasted but that's a cooking error, not a range flaw, and some burner designs (i.e. star burners on Bluestars) avoid this nicely.

Difficult to clean: depends on the surface material. Plenty of non pro stoves are hard to clean, though they may get less burned on debris due to lower output burners.

Lighting mechanisms are defective. You're saying that all pro ranges have defective lighting mechanisms? I'd like to see the evidence.

Close to impossible to get service? What makes you think that the Electrolux purchased from Lowes is better? It's a Frigidaire. Some pro style ranges like Wolf get generally great service/support reviews. Others not so.

Difficulty making tea? What exactly about a pro range makes it difficult to make tea?

Burner configuration varies enormously by brand. Not all offer only high output burners exclusively. And the simmer burners on many pro ranges are true ultralow simmers which work extremely well.

"the restaurant-style (or true restaurant) pro-ranges are gimmicks and inferior". Whew. Glad you see the world so clearly. Obviously GW is loaded with "unsupecting consumers" who love their Bluestars, Wolfs, etc.

BTW: to the OP, simplest solution is a Lacanche. Answers essentially all of samr's issues and eschews the gimmicky electronic "WaveTouch controls" which I think will date rapidly and likely be a source of reliability issues over time. Knobs. No electronics. Gorgeous looks. Ageless design.

alyson I'm so with you re: Electrolux :) although I do remember my mom saying no matter how hard she tried she couldn't break the vacuum...so I guess they've done something right. I'm 95% with the DCS at this point...

samr: Thanks for posting those photos! It's just that gizmo in the back with the electric settings I'm hoping to avoid...

clinresga: Thanks for enhancing a lively debate! My head's still spinning.

beantowner: We finally had to throw our electrolux out. Never died. I can still remember what it looked like. And, I, too am 95% with DCS at this point. To be honest I've gone in so many circles already I'm sort of forgetting why. I think I like the five burners and I really need a true simmer. And it's kind of understated. And, not quite as expensive.. Are you going with the DCS hood? I still haven't seen it yet.

Our appliance guy suggested the Faber pro magnum hood (they had dcs in stock too and it looked nice) - I didn't feel like I needed a label on my hood as long as it was sufficient. I haven't sent it out to GW yet, so I'm sure that will change too...my requirements are: nice looking, atleast 600 cfms, good lighting and good fit. Let me know if you find anything worth looking at. I feel better that we are 95% set with something.

I'm feeling good with my DCS near decision also. Have to say, per clinresga, checked out the Lacanche online. Oh my! If money were no object I'd absolutely love to own one of those. Congratulations on your great taste, clinresga, that is hands down the most beautiful range I've ever seen. I hope you own one. I want to come to your house. I want to touch it. I'm green with envy. Now -- back to earth and DCS -- which looks a little like a cheap toaster in comparison.

call it what you want alyson you don't have to worry about the memories of the block in old greenwich.

alyson: it's the ultimate irrational splurge, we're very excited, but you'll cook just as well on a DCS, if not better. We've been saving for this reno for years, were going to go with a Bluestar but at the last moment encountered the dreaded Lacanche thread on GW and from there to the website and from there to destroying our budget. So, delivery slated first week of August.

But--it ain't got nothing to do with having a great kitchen that cooks fabulously. A DCS will do great (I cook at the lake house on a Dacor drop-in cooktop and feel like I can handle just about anything except maybe big time stir fry).
You will do even better with the DCS.

Thanks, beantowner, I've had a lot of fun making up my mind with everyone's help. True. I deserve to ride tall in the saddle. I survived the slums of Old Greenwich (aka my house). The sun is shining. And I'm going to purchase a DCS range and maybe the wall oven, too (my next dilemma). I have everything to be thankful for!

Carefully examine the interior. We've had a Wolf oven for 6 months and even after hundreds of hours of baking shiny glass fibers are left inside the oven after use. Wolf knows about this but doesn't consider it a problem. These fibers can be an inch long but they also are broken up in small pieces by the fans. If you don't want these fibers in your food - cover it.

We've had a Wolf 36" dual fuel range for three years now. Had a minor problem with the interior light, but the service tech. came within 24 hours of us calling, and fixed it. I love the look, use the simmer all the time for sauces. It is the showpiece of my kitchen. LOVE IT!!!!!!

I now have delivery and installation of my DCS "30 AG range AND the DCS "30 convection oven (the new one with knobs). Love, Love, Love them both! DH is over the moon as well. Have not really had a chance to cook with either much as we're still fitting the granite (blue pearl) countertops over the (Kohler) kitchen farm sink so plumbing and fixtures are not complete and I'm still camping out. But so far both of these are knock-out appliances! I'm blown away with what the convection oven can do (in terms of cooking methods) and anticipate bringing my culinary skills to a whole new level now that I have all kinds of precision at my fingertips. I'm beyond happy!

I am desperately trying to decide between these 3 ranges and seem to change my mind daily. Does anyone have any input to help me make my choice?

I am in the same dilemna....settled on cooktop with DCS...salesperson had a Viking 30" dual fuel self cleaning range...looks awesome....worried because so many people say the Viking is hard to clean......any experience with this out there.....also looking at a Dacor wall oven

I have a 48" Wolf Dual Fuel Range and LOVE it! Great controls, love the sealed burners, ability to heat up quick, simmer low, love the size of the burners for my red Le Cruset cookware, love the blue interior of the ovens, love the red knobs, love the design, ease of cleaning is not too bad and it's so pretty to look at so I don't mind cleaning it. Everything cooks great. The temperature controls are easy to set and adjust, very intuitive. Well made range and Wolf has a solid reputation. Happy with my purchase -- it's the focal point of my kitchen.