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hannah1_gw

Subzero all fridge vs. Viking all fridge

hannah1
15 years ago


I was considering the new Subzero BI-36R all fridge for my new kitchen until a salesman recommended I go for the

Viking. He says he saw the new Sub at a show and was unimpressed with it . It needs a one and a half inch channel all around (don't really know what the implications of that mean, is it just not so aesthetic looking?). Anybody seen the new Sub.? Any significant differences between the previous model? And how does it compare to the Viking in terms of quality and interior space? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Comments (26)

  • weissman
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Be really careful about getting a Viking fridge. A few years ago they were a disaster - they had design flaws that Viking tried to cover up. There were a lot of posts on this forum at the time - don't know if any are still around but you could do a Google search. I have no idea whether the current Viking fridges are better but I'd proceed cautiously. Salesmen will sell you anything they make larger commisions on!

  • antss
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Viking fridges are OK at best, they have not changed their manufacturing line or design since those problems started after they purchased the business from Amana.

    The "new SZ" is prob. not going to deliver anytime soon. Their 601 model has been around for decades and is pretty bullet proof.

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  • canuck99
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The 36 fridges are in some of the display show rooms. Do not kow if that particular model is being shown. I'm going to the showroom in the the Detroit area soon.

  • mary_in_nc
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Look into Liebherr. It's more reliable than SZ and Viking.

  • hannah1
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks to your feedback ants and weissman I decided to go with the new Sub. My mother-in law and aunt have a Sub for years and love it. I don't mind waiting for it, will use my trusty 25 year old Amana in the interim.

  • kent39
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I just bought the sub all fridge and all freezer. I cancelled my order on the Monograms after i heard GE was getting rid of the appliance division. I was told that our sub will be here in October and maybe sooner.

  • antss
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    CAREFUL now Mary in NC, how can you possibly comment acurately on Liebherr being more reilable that SZ or Viking?

    Their latest stint in the USA is too short lived to have any meaningful long term reilability #'s measured by an independant source. They have exited the U.S. twice in the last 15 years or so. Please don't mutter CR in this thread either. The # of units they sell pales in comparison to SZ also. So, from that fact alone there would be way more people complaining @ their SZ if they have the same reliability %. Based solely on # of complainers you'd wrongly conclude that SZ was less reliable than X brand even though the percentage of defective units ( and your chance of getting one) that roll off the factory floor would be identical.

  • amirm
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Antss, you are not seriously saying that everyone at Consumer Reports failed statistics 101 and is just counting complaints, not percentages. Are you? I am happy to dig up the exact wording from CR if you like. But I am confident that they use percentages so the number can be compared to others.

    Our personal experience more than matches their statistics with our 20 year old GE not needing any repair sitting in the garage but our 7 year old SZ having a number of failures.

    BTW, our salesman thought we were going to get SZ all fridge/freezer 36" units and called to say that this is the last month you can order them. Don't know about anyone else but I hate to get the last models coming off the assembly line. Part availability may be an issue down the road.

  • antss
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Amirm - that's EXACTLY what I'm saying. (Not the failing stats part though). Wheer do you think their "percentages" are derived from? Since SZ, and most other companies don't publish their failure rates - CR could have any idea what % of total units fail. They make an educated guess on "their" known #'s. They also don't break out things like shipping damage or install error - it's simply "a failure" in their overly broad repair history reporting. CR also makes no adjustment for their low volume of sample on "luxury" goods. I'm sure they can fiqure out that if the have 100 respondants for SZ fridges and 20 people have a complaint that 20% of SZ units fail. However 100 units isn't even a yawn in terms of SZ's monthly production so it can't possibly be a accurate prediction of failure rate in genral.

    Look , I'm not CR hater, I'm even a subscriber. While they are a good resource and mabey even a benchmark because no one else is in the game, they are not above reproach or having their methods called into ???

    Once again your ignorance on matters shows- The current 601 all fridge & freezer will be discontinued to make way for the bi36. Either you're salesman is ignorant also and didn't know of the new models - or you and he have another adgenda by not disclosing that tidbit! The 601 has remained virtually unchanged for 20 years. You can knock their lack of innovation or progress with respect to that model, but quality doesn't seem to be an issue with it. Nor is the catagory going away. You also have the timing backwards. You don't really want one of the first models to roll off the line till the bugs get ironed out. That's why you see Beta versions of software and gurus tell you not to jump on the Microsoft OS wagon the day a new one comes out. This advise would also apply to the new bi36 model as well. The last models are usually great, especially if the model enjoyed a long production run; workers often pay special attention to the last few because of nostalgic reasons.

  • canuck99
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm hoping they have done enough up front work to make the first units just as good as the last. Remember they stock there show rooms with units well before they start to ship. Not nearly as complicated as a car but likely more critical.

    I'm always amazed how people think the grass is always greener on the other side. Fridges or ...... from Europe or others parts of the world must be better than in NA.

    Sub has a warranty that most fridges could not afford and yes I'm sure you pay for it in th e up front price.

  • amirm
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "CR also makes no adjustment for their low volume of sample on "luxury" goods. I'm sure they can fiqure out that if the have 100 respondants for SZ fridges and 20 people have a complaint that 20% of SZ units fail. "

    Then please read their methodology. Because they exclude items for which they get too few data points. The fact that SZ is listed is because they got sufficient number of people replying with their problems and good experiences.

    And they are not saying 20% of all units fail. But that 20% of the people who responded to have owned a SZ among CR subscribers, had them fail. Given sufficient number of respondents, then such a number will be representative of the entire population as a whole. If you have trouble with this logic, dust off those college statistics books and you see the proof there.

    ----
    "Look , I'm not CR hater, I'm even a subscriber. While they are a good resource and mabey even a benchmark because no one else is in the game, they are not above reproach or having their methods called into ???"

    You can question their performance criteria and I would do the same. But reliability is not one that is subject to debate. People like you and I who are subscribers answer if they do or do not have problems and they report on that stats, taking into account age of equipment and number of data points. Very little can be questioned about this type of reporting.

    -----
    "Once again your ignorance on matters shows- The current 601 all fridge & freezer will be discontinued to make way for the bi36. Either you're salesman is ignorant also and didn't know of the new models - or you and he have another adgenda by not disclosing that tidbit! "

    Look, I simply reported that they no longer taking orders for the new models. In other post I have mentioned that I have been told about their new ones but am not holding my breath that they would show up on time. So maybe you want to memorize every post I make on this forum to know my level of ignorance ;) :).

    As to having an agenda, we all have one :). Some is to help others avoid issues they have had with a product. Some here promote a brand they sell. Others have had a good experience and want others to share in it. I fall in the first category. If you think otherwise, please state so and I will address.

    -----
    "The 601 has remained virtually unchanged for 20 years. You can knock their lack of innovation or progress with respect to that model, but quality doesn't seem to be an issue with it."

    I have owned a SZ for 7 years and can certainly relay my experience which has been anything but reliable. 5-6 failures is not a sign of quality design.

    ----
    "Nor is the catagory going away. "

    Didnt say it was.

    -----
    "You also have the timing backwards. You don't really want one of the first models to roll off the line till the bugs get ironed out. That's why you see Beta versions of software and gurus tell you not to jump on the Microsoft OS wagon the day a new one comes out. This advise would also apply to the new bi36 model as well."

    And I didnÂt say anyone should buy the new either. Indeed, I suggest that they do not until we know for sure if SZ has learned anything about putting out less then reliable products.

    -----
    "The last models are usually great, especially if the model enjoyed a long production run; workers often pay special attention to the last few because of nostalgic reasons."

    They are only great if there is independent data that says they are reliable. Long production cycle is no proof of that.

    Look if you think SZ is great from reliability point of view, how come the company is not disputing the CR data? It would be very easy for them to publish their own stats, saying it is better than CR. Yet, year after year, CR reports their poor score and they remain silent, including in the talking points for the new units. That doesnÂt give me confidence as a consumer.

    Just so that you donÂt question my motives, before retirement, I managed divisions producing products used by hundreds of millions of people (not a typo!). So I know how hard it is to product quality product at scale, both as an engineer and executive managing such project. But as a consumer, I have a choice of who to give my business to and if they have not given me a reliable product, I am not going to keep rewarding them with more. You are welcome to promote them as you see fit. But please donÂt put down my comments because of it.

  • canuck99
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OK how many companies admit problems and issue press releases? The big and others only admit issues when there are recalls and are normally life threating type of issues. So to expect Sub or anyone to issue press releases or new product launches that highlight things we fixed this time around. I'm not saying it does not happen but it is not the norm.

    I have no idea what the failures were since I do not get CR. Were they compressor failures or lights that burnt out?

    The severity of failures is the more important than the total failures. I'm sure I will be enlightened by people that have the inside track of what makes up the 20% of Sub.

    Here is a note on potenital Sub issues

    http://www.propeller.com/viewstory/2008/04/26/consumer-reports-reviews-sub-zero-refrigerators/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bestkitchendesignideas.com%2Fsub-zero%2Fconsumer-reports-reviews-sub-zero-refrigerators%2F&frame=true

  • sdatlanta
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi
    I am also debating among the all-refrigerator SS models of SZ (601), GE Monogram and Viking. Also - have you seen the Frigidaire?

    Could anybody advise what to buy?

    My salesman said the SubZero 601 WILL be continued, that SZ has changed its decision on that. Has anybody got a conflicting piece of information on that?

    However, I saw the Viking 36 inch all-refrigerator at Home Depot and liked the design and look better. I thought the interior was better, plus it's 3 cu ft bigger than the SubZero because it's 84 inches tall (versus 73" for SZ). Is there any update on Viking refrigerator reliability? Also, why does Home Depot NOT carry SZ?

    I also like the GE Monogram - 36 all refrigerator, but also worry about them selling the appliance line.

    [But, the best deal on the block, it seems, is the Frigidaire all refrigerator SS, about $1000, but it is only 17 cu ft approx, and, 32 inches wide - if we could only fit two it would save us several thousands of dollars and give a huge amount of space which we like because we eat so much produce lately in our health quest. (Wonder why they don't make a bigger one?)]

    Can't decide about this. I would love any input and ideas.

    sdAtlanta

  • clinresga
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    General rule of thumb: do not trust anything a salesman says.

    I believe the BI's are now being delivered (at least in Canada)-can anyone confirm? And I find it hard to believe that SZ will continue to produce the 601 when a virtually identical BI is out.

    We avoided the whole issue and got Therm columns. Love them so far, but just installed a couple weeks ago.

  • sdatlanta
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes,it's hard to know whom to believe and whom not to believe. Apparently Sub-Zero is continuing the 601 line until mid 2009. See the link below to their website.

    Does anyone know where to see online the BI36 models? Thanks. sd

  • dgb49
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What I can tell you is that if you have a problem (out of warranty) it's going to cost you big bucks - for either one of them!

  • clinresga
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Did you see this?

  • cpanther95
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Can't speak for the 36, but I ordered a BI48/PH/S about 2 weeks ago and it is sitting in my appliance dealer's warehouse now.

    As far as the 1.5" gap, I believe that is only a concern if you want it completely flush. For standard built in installation, that's not the case. (I need 47.5" for a 48" frig)

  • cpanther95
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I said 2 weeks, it's actually been 5 weeks.

    No wonder the wife seems to be getting impatient with her tore-up kitchen. I thought things were moving right along.

  • drjay71
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    cpanther95, have you received your BI48 yet? If so, how do you like it? We are strongly considering the same unit with pro handles and flush inset in SS. Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks!

  • djh64
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If it is a question of Viking vs Sub refrigeration then without a doubt Sub Zero. I have distributed both brands within the last 10 years and from a reliability and from a service after the sale standpoint the companies are light years apart.

  • drjay71
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It is tempting to go with Viking since their products are slightly less expensive compared to SZ/Wolf, however, the quality difference especially on the fridge side seems to be so wide that it appears to be a no-brainer to go with SubZero.

  • canuck99
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Has anyone installed the BI48 and how simple is it to install. Do you need a pro to do?

  • cpanther95
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    drjay:

    Don't have it in yet. Still waiting for the cabinets to come in.

  • brendalois49
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    PLEASE research the purchase of a Viking refrigerator extremely well. We have a Viking refrigerator that's only 9 years old and are going to replace it. We have spent the last 14 months with repair problems. There were so many visits from the service man that I lost count. The refrigerator NEVER sealed with a strong seal but we were told by Viking that that's the way it should be. Besides the closing problem we've had the freezer stop defrosting not once but three times and lost ALL the food three separate times and it was supposedly fixed each time. I read a post on this website where someone wrote that his Viking refrigerator was the most expensive stainless steel bookcase he ever bought ~ now I'm writing that I SECOND that statement !! We're sick that we are now in the market to buy another built-in refrigerator with another expensive price tag because of the shoddy workmanship from Viking. I purchased the cheapest Kenmore for our downstairs that's just as old as the Viking and it seals, defrosts and purrs like a dream ~ what's wrong with this picture. I feel that Viking just doesn't care about customer satisfaction. As for the salesman that is pushing the Viking really check into this ~ maybe the salesman gets a bigger commission for selling a Viking ~ please do your homework !!!!! I learned a VERY expensive lesson by taking the salesman's word for it.

  • tony_tccmarketplace_com
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    To those posters that were saying Liebherr is more reliable than SubZero.... Amazing what a couple of years will do. Now Liebherr has had a handful of recalls. One major.... The doors were falling off!!!! Doesn't sound to reliable OR SAFE to me.