Sorry: my creaky sense of humor sometimes fails to translate to posting :-) I just remember cracking up when I read about it in the manual.

No, I will admit that my life has not been changed dramatically by the availability of my Cheese cycle. Honestly, 95% of the time I just run my Mieles on the Sensor cycle, ignoring the other dozen or so options. I suspect there are "T-DW-O" folks out there who really utilize them to their fullest capacity, but on Sensor I get sparkling clean dishes using a relatively efficient setting.

I did giggle at the cheese cycle. Sometimes manufacturer's get a little crazy with the options. Then again, it is from Europe and they eat a little different than us. Is there a frozen pizza cycle? Ha!

At one time I was thinking of holding out for a sneaker cycle. Too gross? OK, how about baseball cap?

We scrape, no rinsing. I had 39 plates in one load. I feel the critical difference is the cutlery tray. I have used all my cycles but would not pay for 14. Getting another one and going for the Optima, which is equivalent to my older Incognito with an improved second rack and a "fast" cycle (but no "top only," sigh). Sani handles the starch and cheese.

One issue no one has mentioned is that the top of the line Miele costs aprroximately double what the top of the line KA costs.

I've had a Miele for four years. Compared with less expensive models I've had in the past I particularly like the cutlery tray, the looks of it (full cabinet panel), and the flexibility of the racks, loading, etc. However if I were to do it over again and a top of the line KA was half the price I would seriously consider that instead. At this point Miele does not seem worth the premimum price for me. It has lots of bells and whistles I don't use - including the fact it's engineered to work in hard water environments (which seems to be a negative in some cases if you already have soft water).

I have a Miele DW. I love it. The cutlery tray is great. At first I balked at the prices I saw. But I then chose a model that is almost the bottom of the line. It does not have a lot of cycles. The only two Must-haves for me was the "top only" cycle which I use frequently, and a drying cycle that is NOT a "condensing" dry (I don't know what you call it, but the kind of drying cycle where it uses the heat of the dishes to dry themselves; I didn't want that--I wanted an actual dryer/heater to dry my dishes). A money saver is that the controls on my Miele are on the front, not hidden. As it turned out, I prefer the controls on the front--I like the large buttons, and seeing easily what cycle the DW is on. By getting one of Miele's "lower-end" models (ahem, if you can even say "lower-end" and "Miele" in the same sentence), I didn't spend quite so much more than the KA's I was looking at which I believe were the "S" and "T" series, although my Miele was still somewhat more. Totally worth it IMHO.

Hmmm... I didn't even think of the controls not being seen from the outside. I, too, prefer seeing how much time is left. I am so glad someone mentioned that, because that wasnt' even being factored into my search. That's why I like getting a lot of responses since sometimes someone brings up something I never thought of.
Thanks akchicago! Which Miele model did you go with?

"I will admit that my life has not been changed dramatically by the availability of my Cheese cycle."

Hilarious!

Shershouse - in answer to your question, I bought my Miele a few years ago, so the model numbers have all changed. I remember I spent about $1200-$1300 at the time (the KA I was looking at was about $900). If I were to spend the same amount on a Miele today, the model in that price range would be the Inspira series, the ones with the controls on the front which would be either the #G 2142 SC or the #G 2142 SCi (accepts panel on the bottom 2/3 portion). However, in looking at the features of my DW, my model seems to be somewhere between the Inspira and the next model up which is the Optima, either #G 2432 SC or #G 2142 SCi. Those Optimas run about $1800. Clearly prices have gone up!

I really like the controls on the front, especially since Miele's design of the control panel is very modern and clean-looking. But be aware that many people feel you MUST have hidden controls. I don't know why, but it is the prevalent feeling.

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele Optima DW at AJ Madison

Typo in my previous message - the Optima models are #G 2432 SC or #G 2432 SCi.

You can't compare a top of the line KA to a top of the line Miele. The top of the line Miele has features a top of the line KA will never have. I'm not too familiar with the KA models, but I suspect KA's top of the line is comparable to a mid-range Miele. The La Perla blows away everything else on the market, with a price tag to match.

I have the previous generation La Perla. It cost me $2,000. Yes, that's a lot for a dishwasher, but you know what? It has a built-in water softener which is a godsend, it's so quiet you honestly can't hear it unless you put your ear right up against the front panel, it has a wide selection of cycles which allows me to make the decision on energy and water usage for any particular load, I never ever have to pre-rinse anything, and the fit/finish/quality is second to none. I don't anticipate ever needing another dishwasher as long as I live, or at least until this unit fails after its expected 20 year life expectancy.

Admittedly, I am willing to pay much more for something that I know is a high quality appliance vs. something that is half the price but that I will need to replace. I don't think money is the most important consideration. I will always opt for the machine that will last me a long time as opposed to the one I will need to replace every few years, if for no other reason than I just don't want to see another dishwasher, washing machine, refrigerator, oven, etc. go into a landfill. I also think companies such as Miele, who spend some serious money on R&D and QC, should be rewarded with our consumer dollars.

But that's just me. :)

Miele admittedly are beautiful machines. But, I've been really happy with Kitchenaid. Better loading, larger capacity and more user friendly. Really good cleaning and drying, with no fiddling and experiments to figure out what kind of detergent etc. etc. Just select Normal and the machine figures out what to do for each load.

Seems their latest models are 41 db. Comparable with other brands. A Gardenweb member Helene used to post, but have not heard from her lately, anyway, her Miele threw in the towel at 5 years. The cost of repair was more than half of a new machine. She replaced it with a lower priced Bosch.

I'm not sure there is not any brand that is immune from a stinker every now and then.

If it has not been mentioned, take some dishes, pans & utensils with you when shopping for a test fit. The euro machines seem well suited to china, glassware and silver. Not mixed everyday dishloads. At least that what the online pictures detail.

C

As to the smaller capacity, I cannot put two rows (front to back) of 12 inch plates. We put the 12" in the back rown, and 10" in the front row. Otherwise, major chipping.
And until we learned how to stack glasses in the top rack, we had major breakage. This wasn't our first DW, just our first Miele. Will likely buy a Kenmore or something along that line next time.
On the plus side, it is very quiet.

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I have very similar questions as the OP, and I can't seem to nail this decision down! (All my other choices, range, fridge, etc., were no brainers...go figure I'd get hung up on a dishwasher.)

I still am going back and forth on whether or not to do the Miele; I had ruled out KitchenAid, but after more research this past week, it's back in the game. On the one hand, a dishwasher needs to be a workhorse for us, and I love the concept of a QUIET dishwasher (our Kenmore Elite, well, it ain't that). I definitely want quality, as I plan on getting custom panels and TWO dishwashers, so I don't want to have to replace those in a couple of years. I love energy efficiency, blah, blah, blah...Miele seems to fit the bill for all of those.

On the other hand, we are a family of seven, with five kids under the age of 11. Our daily dishware uses consist of a LOT of plastics (sippys, bottles, plastic kids' plates and cups, etc.), not as much fine china. :) So, from some of these posts, I'm wondering if the American-style Kitchenaid would be better suited?

Maybe this requires a new thread, but I was wondering if any Miele owners with little munchkins (and lots o' plastic) are happy with their purchases?

We just replaced a KitchenAid Superba (Architect Series) dishwasher with a Miele Optima this weekend and here are my observations thus far:

1. The door on our KA was much heavier than the door on our Miele. Since we've had problems with the door springs/hinges/parts on both our KA stove and dishwasher, I'm thinking the lighter weight is probably an advantage.

2. Miele's racks slide more easily smoothly than our old KA racks.

3. I definately prefer Miele's flatware tray over the standard basket in most dishwashers, although I understand KA now offers this feature too.

4. The Miele is quieter. The KA was also relatively quiet but I could still hear it 'changing gears' between stages.

5. For whatever reason the KA left bits of food on my dishes - especially inside of glasses. I tried using vinegar in the wash but it didn't help much so I ended up pre-washing everything. So far (after just 2 loads) the Miele has gotten everything sparkling clean.

6. We had more repair issues with our KA dishwasher than with any other large appliance I've owned and because we purchased an integrated model with the controls on the top of the door, one repair was quite expensive. I trust (and hope) that won't be the case with my Miele but only time with tell.

jencjudd, I am having the same problem. All of the other appliances are picked except the dishwasher (well...I'm also having an internal debate over my washer/dryer, but that's for another thread)

I would make the decision on the Miele except for one intriguing factor on the Kitchenaid. I like the pot scrubber option. Does anyone have this and have any comments on it?

Plastics?

We like plastics!! :)

{{gwi:1428166}}

Somonica - cute pic. But it would help to know which DW that is!

This is our Miele G2630! :)

And yes, those higher end Miele also have a plastic cycle in addition to that Cheese cycle!!

But we don't have enough plastic fill up our Excella to run the plastic cycle.... yet! :p

{{gwi:1428168}}

Shershouse,

Since virtually all of the loads I did in my KA included one or more pots/pans, I used the 'potscrubber' cycle continuously but still had problems with food residue on everything. IMHO there's nothing particularly special about that feature.

LOL! Wow, thanks, somonica! That's exactly what I wanted to see. :) I must say, that is a beautiful load of dishes...my husband would be impressed at how much you got in and how organized it all is (I'm blessed with a hubbie who LOVES to organize and load a dishwasher ;)). A question--are your dishes "drippy" when they are done? I keep hearing how plastics don't get very dry in a European washer.

yadax3, your reasons against the KitchenAid are compelling. I'd love to hear how you like your Optima in another week as well...that's the model I'm looking at, as well as the KitchenAid Superba.

sherhouse, it is amazing how a little thing like a dishwasher can keep you up at night, isn't it? I guess I ought to just be grateful I don't have to use my hands to wash dishes (other than load them ;)). I am wondering about the "pot scrubber" appeal...we have that option on our KE, which I use often, but it just seems like a longer wash cycle (at least, with the KE). The KE also has a turbo wash, which, thus far, has proven to be useless. I'm thinking it might be a nicer option with the KA, though (pot scrubber, that is).

jencjudd--it does seem silly to obsess over a dishwasher, but they are not cheap and they are used--A LOT! Anyway, I'm not sure if I am using the terminology correct for the KA potscrubber. I, too, have a potscrubber on my current KA and it is basically a longer cycle. The new KA's have a pro-scrub option (see link) and they also have the utensil tray which has been luring me into their web. I think I am going to spend the extra money and do the Miele despite KA's excellent attempt to keep me a customer. I need to make some decisions. I have to finalize plumbing next and there are new and other exciting things to obsess about there! Who says this is fun??

Here is a link that might be useful: kitchenaid pro-scrub

Shershouse - if you do decide on the Miele, please note that if you have a "Miele authorized installer" install it, Miele will double the length of your warranty.

Hi jencjudd,

You can always "overload" a Miele DW a bit and still get perfect result! (For eye popping result, use Miele DW tabs)... :)

All my items always come out dry! The only "drippy" items are those concave surface that hold water...

But Yes, some plastic are much harder to dry when you not using enough rinse aid or you need to take those items out right after the cycle done. Just keep the DW door close after the cycle for couple of hours will help a lot...

Since we always start the DW before we go to bed, I only need to 2 ml of rinse aid! And by the next morning even bamboo (much harder to try than plastic) chopsticks will dry!

{{gwi:1428170}}

Why not, for the price of a Kitchenaid, get a Bosch? You won't get all the bells & whistles -- no water softening, for one, but good cleaning and quiet performance. The filter basket is a non-issue. I've cleaned mine out perhaps a few times a year over two and a half years and it's as simple and rinsing -- not once been anything really gross or nasty. It dries every bit as well as any other machine I've had, including some Kitchenaid models, but it doesn't melt any of my plastics. And the best thing was, when I decided I could shuffle my storage around to fit two, I had the budget as well as the room for two! I've been very happy with both of them. :-)

I *hated* doing the dishes with a passion -- my parents couldn't even pay me to do them as a kid, and I'm just talking about loading/unloading a dishwasher. Well, the Miele has made me love "doing" the dishes! I firmly believe that the fancier and cooler the gadget is that performs a chore, the easier it is to get a man to do it.

My Asko makes me love doing the laundry... My Dacor oven makes me love baking... my De Dietrich induction cooktop makes me love to cook... and my BlendTec makes me love to make smoothies... The only thing I hate is vacuuming, but my partner *loves* vacuuming now that we have central vac! More toys for those boys!

Hey sshrivastava,

Which Miele do you have? I definitely want the dishwasher to be cool, because my husband is the self-proclaimed dishwasher-filler-extraordinare, and I'd hate to end that reign with a dishwasher he just didn't "get." ;)

yadax3, I was wondering how it was going with your Miele, two weeks into using it. Loving it? Has the loading learning curve been easy enough?

And, finally, sherhouse, have you made a decision yet? I'm still waffling, but I have to decide soon, or they are going to build this house sans dishwashers. For that matter, sans faucets, lights, and microwaves, too....ARGGH! Too many decisions. :)

Thanks for your thoughts!

I was at the Miele showroom Wed to look at the various dishwashers and speak to someone who works for them and really knows the product. I'm going with Optima G2472SCSF -- it's the Optima with SS panel installed.

This is the DW they sell most where I live. It can be hooked up to hot/cold. It will cool water down or heat it as there is a temperature sensor on the water line.

It has a Tab setting -- great for me as I like the Miele tabs. With those, no additional rinse aid is necessary.

It has 6 cycles including the china/crystal, which I need, and a Turbo setting, which is a 30% faster program with a hotter wash. It has extra basket gizmos inside and the split cutlery tray, which I need to wash tall things.

Anyone who is still confused (online comparisons are difficult) might benefit from requesting the Jan 2009 dishwasher brochure, which makes everything quite clear.

"It has a Tab setting -- great for me as I like the Miele tabs. With those, no additional rinse aid is necessary. "

No, if you use Miele tabs you set the DW to Powder, because Miele tabs do NOT have rinse aid in it!!

{{gwi:1428171}}

Well, on the subject of dishwasher tabs, do the plain ol' Cascade tabs work well in a Miele? I think they do have some kind of rinse aid in them, and we love using those. Or do the Miele tabs work better?

jencjudd,

Yes, I'm still loving my Miele and I've been using my left over Cascade tabs with no problems. When I tested my water it had a hardness of 3 grains (50 ppm) so I went ahead and added a box of Somat salt. Everything really has come out sparkling. One thing I noticed was how well it washes my Henkel knives. I usually wash the big knives by hand (as recommended) but I have a bad habit of sticking the steak knives in the dishwasher when I'm in a hurry. My Kitchenaid always left rust spots on them but there are no spots and they look great coming out of the Miele.

I've had no problem with the learning curve. The most complicated thing I've had to do was set the water hardness level, which is about as tough as resetting the clock in my car. My husband has started leaving dishes in the sink though. He claims he doesn't do it intentionally but I think he's trying to avoid loading the flatware tray. Some people find change more difficult to accept than others (smile).

jencjudd, I have the La Perla. I switched it into Czech language mode and my mom popped a vein in her forehead (she's Czech)! Oh the little things...

LOL, sshrivastava! That is tooo funny. Does it have a Finnish option? My husband speaks Finnish, so that might thrill him to no end. :)

yadax3, that is great to hear about the Cascade tabs....AND, the Henckel knives. I have the same issue with those; HATE handwashing them (and, as a result, they sneak into our dishwasher, but only when DH isn't looking). I was hoping the Miele would be more gentle on them, so I could throw them in sans guilt.

I'm excited...you all have helped me conclude Miele is the brand for me. Love this forum! Thanks a bunch.

My two cents regarding the "Cheese" cycle ...

In my little part of the world, Miele calls it a "Feculents & Gratin" program (literaly ... Starch & 'Gratin' ?), and it is intended to target those residues of burnt and dried cheese/breadcrumbs/potatoes/pasta on your gratin dishes ...

Here, the ability to clean dirty gratin dishes is considered as the ultimate proof of efficiency (and an unattainable goal) for a dishwasher or DW tabs ... Commercials for DW tabs almost always point out their ability to clean THOSE gratin dishes with stubborn burnt cheese leftovers ... I think I can even say that from a French point of view, a Starch & Cheese program sounds like THE thing we all expect from a diswasher ...

As Shershouse pointed out, different eating habits, different needs ...

Just got rid of my Miele after less than four years. Why?

One motor was already replaced while it was under warranty.

It's out of warranty now and I have to pay someone to make a house call from St. Louis which is 100 miles from my home. I live in the boonies and no one around here can service the thing. So, it is not worth the cost of the repair if it is an expensive repair such as another motor.

Too bad, because it truly was a wonderful dw. I have never pulled a dirty dish out of that dw, and it was virtually silent. I will miss my Miele. Rest in peace.

I learned a valuable lesson. Don't buy an expensive appliance that can't be serviced by someone within a reasonable distance.

I bought Fisher & Paykel dishdrawers from a store in town that services what they sell. Not as quiet or roomy as the Miele, but still nice.

Red lover, so sorry to hear about that frustrating experience. :( I'm glad you liked your Miele, though I have to wonder what was wrong with it that it needed a motor replacement not once, but twice! What model did you have? That's a good tip to keep in mind for all of us: make sure we can get service, when we inevitably need it!

Glad you found a suitable replacement in the F&P drawers...I love that look. Hopefully you'll have a better time with those. :)

jencjudd

The first time, the drain light kept flashing and the bottom had water. The serviceman replaced the motor and said that this was the most common problem with that particular model (at that time).

It was the Miele Incognito.

He told me that if it wasn't a warranty call, the service call, parts and labor would hardly make it worth fixing the dw--due to the distance.

If I lived in an area where I could have gotten service easily I would have definitely kept my Miele. I loved that DW.

So, when the same thing happened again and I couldn't get it to drain with all of the usual troubleshooting fixes, I didn't even consider a service call.

It may or may not have been the motor--but I suspect it was.

Went to look at Miele -- had heard so many positive things. But when I opened the door on the La Perla I was surprised that the racks seemed so flimsy. I have a Kenmore Elite at home and have not been dissatisfied -- came home and yep, the Kenmore inside is way more substantial. (This is a five or six year old machine). The main reason I'm looking for a new DW is to have the fully integrated door for the upcoming remodel. So now I'm wondering . . . .
Anyone have any comments on the racks in the Miele?

Since I just replaced a Kitchenaid with a Miele 6 months ago, I had to chime in. The Kitchenaid was fine in terms of quiet and capacity, but it just didn't clean glassware, no matter what detergent or rinse aid I tried. I got so frustrated at having to redo the wine glasses for company I wasn't really that upset when the pump went out after 5 years. The Miele, to my great delight, produced sparking glasses from the first load! In terms of other factors, they seem about comparable. Sayde expresses concerns about the racks, but I haven't had any problems--but then, I never had any trouble with the KitchenAid either. I like the Miele's cutlery tray, but I wouldn't go out and spend the extra money because of it.
But the sparkling glasses--now that's worth it!

Size can be an issue. Miele's are 22 and a fraction deep and KA a bit over 24. If you want a panel on your DW AND if you have inset cabs, AND if your lowers are standard 24 inch depth, the KA will stick out.

This does not seem to be a good enough reason to choose a dishwasher but in fact this alone will cause me to go to Miele. At least the decision has gotten made! BTW Bosch and other European brands are also less than 24.

Hadn't even thought about that, sayde...we are doing inset cabs and want a panel,too, so one more reason I'm glad I'm going with Miele! :)

jencjudd, Bosch and Blomberg would also work. I'm still looking at these too. On a related subject, the Europeans are also a tiny bit narrower so you and the cab designer need to decide whether to use a filler or make the cab opening narrower than standard 24. I think most people use the filler so that in the future they can get a standard 24. But if you have inset with a panel the American makes would not work -- not at their current sizes.

So...it's been a year since the last post. Did any of you end up w/ the Miele, and if so, how are you liking it a year later??

Thanks!

I see this is an old thread, but have been searching for a new dishwasher and thought I would add something more recent to help others.

My 12 YO Maytag apparently has a broken control board, and rather than spend $215 for a part that may fix the problem, decided to upgrade. Unfortunately few if any of the dishwashers on the market got good reviews.

We looked at the Miele G5105 that my wife loved, but I learned that you had to service with special service companies that charge $199 trip charges, and that repairs were not that uncommon. Also the bottom basket design seemed like it would be a huge challenge to load anything but small, slender plates. Large diameter dinner plates, casserole dishes, and soup bowls would not easily fit without rendering other slots unusable or resorting to flattening the tines and wasting a ton of space to fit a bowl or dish as if it were a pot. I found a review confirming this suspicion and a very frustrated owner. The latest metric on dishwashers is the number of place settings it will hold, and it seems that holding more place settings means narrow slots and inflexible designs. That's my opinion anyway.

We wound up buying the KitchenAid KUDE60HXSS. Not a new model, but maybe that's why I like it. This and similar KA models seem to get the highest reviews of any brand I found, the bottom tray looks like it will hold a variety of sizes and thicknesses, it has the upper cutlery tray similar to the Miele, and has high temperature water options.

It also is quiet (43 db) has a solid feel and looks good. Best Buy had a special on this unit ($100 less than Amazon) plus free delivery, install and removal of old unit (Miele dealer wanted $200). Disappointed in 1 yr warranty of top of the line unit, but with American Express card I got 2 years. You'll find lots of reviews of this and similar KA unit if you search.

Hope this helps!

On this board there are many reviews of both Miele and Kitchenaid. If you had relied on them you would have been able to make a good choice for you. Best of luck.

bjp999,

Look at the Miele G51005SC, as it comes with the top cutlery rack instead of a basket. I don't think its much more for that model. Also, Miele sells a 5 year warranty for $250 from them, it covers everything, including the service trip.

Lets not forget the tendency of some KA units to catch on fire in the control panel area.

If you are going for a fully concealed look - the miele and bosch units are a lot easier to make that happen.

In my new home, my (new) ASKO dishwasher doesn't dry nearly as well as my 2-year old Kitchen Aid from where I moved from, did. Does anyone know if the Miele's dry better than the ASKOs? I had no issues with my Kitchen Aid "Pro Dry," and I am wondering if I should go back to that. I am guessing that the European models are more energy efficient, so they don't dry as well......but I want dry dishes the next morning Any input would be appreciated.

My Kenmore rebranded Bosch does not have built in dryer, it has SS liner and uses residual heat from the wash to dry the dishes. I believe a lot of European models do this, and don't have dedicated drying cycles Works well except for dishes with a lip on the bottom where water pools slightly, or some plastics. Newer models give you better layout to tilt dishes/plastics so that potentially pooled water drains off the dishes.