With just a couple of wing walls this last design restores a dining room to the house, a wonderfully livable multifunctioning room. I like it very much, and its relation to the kitchen; however, do you still feel your keeping room in this design? If less, does it matter? I notice you're thinking of adding a second table now, in the kitchen side, instead of just island stools.

Thanks for you for the responses!

Archie- It wouldn't be attacthed, but a small table pushed up to the island, for a different work surface and extra seating. It will be nice to have the nieces and nephews gathered around the table, rather than lined up at the island. I'm hoping...less pushing and shoving! :)

Laura- I like the light, but I've been measuring my current kitchen and storage...and I think I'll be happier with the upper cabinets. The window will still be good sized, but I don't want it quite as big as the window seat area.

Rosie- I do! I really like the big dining table. The chair and ottoman, window seat and desk give me plenty of 'extras' to feel like it still has a keeping room feel, at least IMHO. The floor to ceiling, raised hearth, brick fireplace has a nice keeping room vibe, too.

This little marble table, pushed up to the island...is what I had in mind. Not attached, nor a full sized table, but great for a little extra table space :) {{gwi:1448525}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

You don't want a hutch or sideboard in your dining room? (Says the one who had to plan enough space for the four that we own.)

I thought about it...but I'd rather have the desk and the shelves, by the fireplace. We'll have some glass upper cabinets in the baking area (one solid, two glass closest to the fridge) for some nice dishes/display.

We'll probably end up with some dish/display on the porch...maybe on the other side of the wall from the range. It will be a great place to sit in the sun and have tea. I think, we have more tea dishes than dinner dishes! LOL

I have a cute metal display rack, for teacups and saucers and there may be room for a small corner cabinet by the window seat, but I didn't want one big hutch...just because I'm trying to get away from a 'dining room' and have more of a keeping room, with table and chairs.

It sounds terrific, then, Lavender. I did immediately notice the new spots this created for things like the desk. The whole thing's warm and livable and potentially very beautiful too. You're really cruising. :)

Thanks, Rosie...and thanks for sticking with me, on this! :)

The scrapper guys have been hard at work...and stuff that broke down over the last 60 years is finally being hauled away! When you inherit a family farm, you inherit the good, the bad and the ugly (LOL) but some of the ugly is no longer sitting in our barnyard!

They cut up an old caterpillar (the machine) and that alone took about four trips to haul away. Also taking out pieces of machinery like headers and broken blades, etc. Now you know why I don't show many before pictures...it looks nice on one side of the old farmhouse (the side with the lilacs) and the other side looks like a junk yard! However, with any luck, by the end of the summer, it will look much prettier...and safer! :)

Sounds fantastic Lavender!

Thanks, Laura! Between my gardening and the guys doing the scrapping...maybe it will look nice enough to take pictures, in a little while :)

I just picked up a BH&G Kitchen and Bath Ideas magazine...and found another example of an island (with butcher block top) next to a marble table, with stools!
{{gwi:1448533}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

That is all one piece rather than a table pushed up to the island. The leg under the butcher block is the same as the legs under the marble and the marble top only has two legs. So it could not be replaced if you needed a bigger table for company.

I think it should be all one piece as well, made to match as in the above photo.

I know :) but I'm surprised that it's the same idea, with a lower marble 'table' (even if it is attached) and backless stools. Is this a common look in French kitchen style...or just a recent development in magazines?

Personally, I would use a separate table, but I do like the wood and marble, with at least the appearance of two different pieces of furniture, rather than the 'big island' with multiple surfaces...all one height. Both pictures show the marble 'table' as narrower than island, too.

I'm still playing around with the kitchen layout...although I'm very happy with the overall house, the kitchen is still not quite right. I like the last plan, a lot...but my concern is that everything is too spread out. While it's great when the nieces and nephews are visiting, it will be lots of steps between things, for one cook.

So, I'm trying something a little different. Not sure if I want a deck or a screened porch off the back, but I would like the glass porch to be for plants...so it would be nice to have a place for an outdoor table, off the kitchen and family room.

Here's the plan...and yes, it's a LOT like Laura Calder's kitchen! LOL But, I do love her kitchen and she seems to create a lot of food, with a minimal amount of walking around...and it lines up the sink and cooktop with the big window in the keeping room. Something the other plans did not do, and I think this looks better, especially when you're working in the kitchen. {{gwi:1448534}}From Farmhouse plans

I put the little marble table, off the cooktop, so I could still have a couple of 'helpers' in the kitchen, without being too close to the cooktop.

In case anyone hasn't seen Laura Calder's kitchen...
{{gwi:1422909}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures
{{gwi:1448535}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures
{{gwi:1407444}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

I'm not certain that you'll find the stove placement and the small aisle kitchen you are creating to be as functional as you expect it to be. It works great on the kitchen you use as an example because it is being used as a demonstration kitchen, but in reality you have nothing to stop the backsplatter, and the kids will end up to close up behind the back of the stove.

It does sound as if you are the one who does the majority of the cooking in your home, so that is one plus towards this style. However, their wouldn't be enough space behind you for your husband (or nieces/nephews) to rinse dishes or unload the dishwasher if you were cooking. Everyone would be bumping into each other.

I think you should take this diagram and ideas over to the kitchen forum as I'm sure you'll get more help over there!

Laura- Thank you for the input! My drawing is a little too big, so there's actually 5' of space, between the sink and cooktop. It could move to 4 1/2' if I wanted a bit more space for the little table.

Actually, I have the same set up in our current kitchen (and like it) except the oven is next to the cooktop...and I really need more prep space. Also, this plan would have the extra prep/storage space, between the fridge and oven...my current plan has the fridge where the door to the porch/deck is located.

Oh, and it doesn't show on the plan too well, but I would want a small backsplash behind the cooktop, so things don't fall off the back of the counter. We don't do a lot of frying, but if things 'get crazy' LOL we can make sure people sit at the big table, not the little marble table :)

I know the island/peninsula cooktop is not always popular on the kitchen forum, but I do like that with the extra prep space, my back won't be to everyone, while I'm prepping/cooking. The little table is better than stools pulled up right to the cooktop...and also prevents spills from going back and forth. For instance, spilled spaghetti sauce (a kitchen forum favorite example) will not run onto the table, with the backsplash...and spilled drinks (more of a concern) won't run into whatever I'm cooking! :)

I see what you are saying, and if it works for you now then I guess you should consider it.

Sorry to be critical, but I think this is a little less functional than the typical island/peninsula cooktop as you don't have the same space, and it feels like it really closes off your kitchen and makes what is really a lot of space look/feel cramped.

I also think it is too easy for little hands to get to the back of the stove from that table top.

Laura- Please, be critical! LOL I need some feedback and I appreciate your opinion.

I have another alternative to the marble table...just a regular raised countertop, with stools. I like the idea of the marble table, but I'm not sure it works in the space.

As for little hands, the little ones will be working at the larger wood table or standing on step stools, in the prep area. The marble table or raised counter would be for the older nieces/nephews...and we usually bake a lot more than we cook. I'm thinking a raised 18" counter, maybe even a little deeper, if we decide on the counter option.

We don't normally stir fry or fry a lot of foods, especially when the kids are over. I like to bake, make casseroles, meat loaf, etc. although sometimes we make pasta. (I don't eat red meat, but my husband sometimes cooks a steak or pork.) The kids would probably be at the table coloring or playing cards. Or, in the living room watching TV :) {{gwi:1448536}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

A huge improvement, I think the lowered table works on an island where it is similar dimensions, but not as much off the pennisula.

That said, I just don't like the aisle you are creating. Overall I think it will make your space feel cramped instead of expansive.

What about if you went back to your last plan, and moved the cooktop to the island, and then maybe put a second window where the cooktop was looking out to your porch?

That's exactly the problem...the scale is wrong, with the table against the peninsula! It didn't look 'right' but now I know why!

The cooktop on the island gets the cooking area closer to the fridge, but with a 6' island, there isn't much prep space. I have 5' now and there's just not enough room. I do like the big prep area, between the cooktop and the wall, in the new plan.

Galley kitchens (with the aisle) are always a challenge, but they are convenient. I like that you don't have to walk back and forth to reach the most often used areas...but the 5' aisle will be a traffic pattern. A prep sink on the peninsula is one option...but I don't think we have enough daily traffic to justify the added expense and loss of prep space...but it is a possibility :)

Here's the plan, with a prep sink on the peninsula. What do you think?
{{gwi:1448537}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

Laura- I saw your post on the wine cellar...what a great idea! I'm no expert, so I didn't want to knock you off the top by answering...but I did work in an old mansion/turned restaurant while in college...and they had an amazing wine cellar. It even had big wrought iron doors, as you entered! LOL

I think having the wine cellar walls against earth, on at least two sides if possible, should help keep the temperature constant. It worked for that cellar...and it was cool, even in the hot summer.

I don't think I can be of any more help with your kitchen set up, I've had galley kitchens and it just isn't something I personally liked so I can't comment on how to set one up. Also, it is hard for me to picture as we do more cooking than baking, and often do our cooking together so that kind of space and traffic flow is hard for me to wrap my head around.

As for the wine cellar, at least two, possibly three walls will be exterior, but there are a lot of challenges to overcome and I'm hoping someone has experience with insulting one in a warm climate. Also, I'm concerned about heat transfer through the concrete floor and wondering if there is anything that can be done about that as well... Ours will be more practical than formal, probably just a well insulated exterior steel door and wine racks with room to store a few other cold storage items (canning mostly).

Thanks, Laura...I appeciate your input. I have the same problem, when people design kitchens with no counter space by the fridge. I always think...do you really want the kids to carry the milk across the kitchen, to pour onto the bowl of cereal? LOL

Hopefully, you'll get some good responses on your wine cellar! Do you have any 'show homes' in your area that have this feature? Maybe you could get some info from the builder. Just an idea :)

My current kitch doesn't have counter next to the fridge, rhough i didn't design it! We manage just fine though :)

As for the cella, there aren't many new homes in our area, some high end homes have cellars, but the mostly use cooling units.

ha... I tried to respond using my iphone, the text is so small I didn't see all my spelling errors! :)

LOL! Of course we each have areas of our current kitchens that work for us, but others don't like!

Is having a cooling unit a large expense or are you trying to make the cellar more environmentally friendly...or both? If you can design it the way you would like to, I think it would give other people an idea what they would like to have, too.

Even with a warmer ground temperature, I think insulation should make the difference. Wouldn't thicker cement walls keep everything cooler, too? Don't earth homes work so well, because they're insulated and save on heating/cooling...in lots of areas, including California...and and even out in the desert? Maybe that could give you some ideas?

I'm going to move your post over to my question so that I don't end up answering the same questions twice! :)

Lavender, with the peninsula anchored to the left wall, the relation to the rest of the space no longer makes sense. The gap between peninsula and wing walls doesn't make sense. Three spaces that don't relate well at all. The galley looks like it was cut out of another floor plan and taped into that one. That island needs to be centered with the doorway, with a strong open relationship between the two rooms. Or close them off as 2 separate rooms, maybe making the dining lounge larger, and then let them do their own things.

You know, with the moving of the kitchen and the living room, your house has come together in a way that feels wonderfully right, with a wonderful quality of inevitability. Magic happened.

The only perhaps-issue I wondered about is that the keeping room dining table has changed character and function, wonderfully in its way but moving farther from the cooking area in mood and physical distance. You then felt a new need to insert a second dining table closer to the cooking area, the original no longer sufficient in some way, making me wonder how much it might end up being used. I could easily see that room pictured in a glossy magazine, but potentially not really part of the cozy kitchen-centric living space you once intended to create.

Now, while compacting the kitchen in a galley, you (incidentally?) seem to be also bringing that new dining spot even closer, with the original table that once was meant for everyday use even farther away, new seats snuggling up to the counter, still presenting their backs to it.

When I look at that beautiful dining room now, I see a large table with 6 chairs, and one lone easy chair and a desk rather far away from each other, desk with its back to the other. Warm and lovely to look at, but not really equipped to snuggle up in for the winter.

I may be completely, totally off the mark here, and if so I apologize, but how about keeping the room shapes but decorating to reclaim the original function you were going for? Maybe have 2 extra comfy chairs for you guys, with an ottoman to share. Take the leaves out of the oval and have a smaller round table for the two of you for everyday use, and a couple of visitors. When more people drop by, the easy chairs can be pushed back and the leaves and extra dining chairs brought out.

Lose table #2 that would sit between this one and you while you work. Instead, in its place pull your kitchen work area forward, TOWARD the fireplace and DH in the easy chair or at the table, so you're in comfortable conversation distance as you work. Once again. Then tweak the kitchen layout for efficiency. ?

Rosie- Thank you so much for the detailed response :)

Let me show you something that hit me, when I was looking at the plan from different angles...and see if it makes any more sense to you. Then, I'll respond more fully to your other comments. Thanks again! {{gwi:1448538}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

When you look at this 'upside down' or from the kitchen viewpoint...this lines up so much better with the front window and the table. Before, it felt a little off...here's the other plan, from this viewpoint... {{gwi:1448539}}From Farmhouse plans

This kitchen has some great work zones and lots of storage...but there's also a LOT of walking to reach the different zones. And...it's balanced to its area, but not the dining room/keeping room end.

Let me know what you think and thanks again :)

Hi. Turning it upside down is certainly a new viewpoint, and I definitely see what you mean about everything lining up from the cook's point of view. If it were mine, that's something I'd want too.

If you decided to go with a galley, would it work to remove the wing walls? The additional corners for furniture placement are nice, but it seems as if their function of defining the spaces would be taken over by the peninsula dividing the room in a new position.

Rosie- Good idea about making the wing walls a bit smaller. I tried 2' instead and it does look better! I have to have some side walls, since this is a load bearing wall.

I also added an 18" pantry on the cooktop wall, with another pantry behind it...opening up to the table area. What do you think of the changes? Oh, and I took off the raised counter and decided to try a backsplash behind the cooktop, with the marble table and chairs, just a few inches lower than the backsplash. Maybe with beadboard on the back of the half wall, so it looks more finished. What do you think? {{gwi:1448540}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

And here it is from the kitchen side :) {{gwi:1448541}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

What I think is that you keep moving forward and surprising me. :) These small tweaks, especially creating that transitional space by setting the pantry opposite the door, make good sense out of this new layout. They explain why the kitchen and dining room are where they are, and there's no longer an "orphan" space left hanging outside the kitchen counter. As I said on the kitchen forum, it now looks to me like something a nice old home might naturally have evolved into.

Confused about the backsplash behind the stove. How high will the backsplash be? I take it you mean the whole pony wall the stove backs against. What will you top the wall with? And what type of hood vent will you have over the stove?

Rosie- Thanks again! I'm glad it's looking better. I know it's a bit of an odd plan, but I think it will work well for us :)

Dekeoboe- Thank you for the response! I appreciate that you're still checking in on my updates. The backsplash would be probably 4" to 6" tall, from the pantry cabinet to the end of the half wall. Along the top might be tile (as is the backsplash) so it looks like it works together. As for the vent, this might be a little larger than I need, but if I could put this up high enough...I think something similar would be great! {{gwi:1448542}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

Oh, disclaimer...some of the people on the kitchen forum have put hoods up higher than normally recommended (also tall people) and with electric burners, it hasn't been a problem. I'll find out more info, but this does sound promising!

See I thought you were wanting to find an antique table with a marble top to put against the peninsula, but I think if you go this new route you will have to have a custom table and chairs. The reason I say this is because, based on this latest picture, the pony wall ends up being bar top height, so about 42 inches and I don't think you will be able to find an antique table and chairs that are only a few inches lower than bar top height.

Also, make sure you figure out ahead of time what tile you will be using and find out if they make the corner pieces you will need for the top of the pony wall. I am thinking you are not going to want to have it overhang the wall as far as is shown in the above picture because then it would overhang the table too much. But, if you use corner tiles you might have very little space for tile on the top of the pony wall. Hard to explain so I am going to post a picture where you can see how the corners are normally handled when you use tile counter tops.

There are other ways to handle the corners on tile counter tops, but since you will be having two corners pretty close to each other, it will have to be planned out ahead of time and may limit your tile choice.

Dekeoboe- That picture does have too large an overhang...I was thinking either tiles or a wood top...but definitely narrow. Good point about the marble table...probably about 40" tall with stools. If I use wood, it's easy to trim the legs down to get the right fit. My all time favorite coffee table (still use it) is a breakfast table with the legs cut down. Rounded corners and very sturdy! :)

As for countertops, I think it would be easy to overuse the blue tile, so just tile on the sink wall and wood countertops around the range...if possible. Then a piece of marble between the fridge and oven, with the marble table. Just enough to be interesting, but not so much that it looks too fancy for a farmhouse.

Over on the kitchen forum, there was some concern about the fridge location...so I have one other idea. This would bring the oven/microwave by the range, so less prep space, but more by the fridge. And, the door could swing in from the porch, if we decide to only screen it (no glass) which would be easier and cheaper! LOL

Anyway, here it is...what do you all think? {{gwi:1448544}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

Is the O/M an oven with a microwave above it? If so, I don't think that will work because of the overhang on the pony wall.

Oh, and I meant that the antique table and chairs would be too short, not too tall. They would be about 30" tall and you need 40" tall or thereabout.

I don't actually have an antique table and chairs, but I like the idea from the magazines. I'm hoping to find some nice marble pieces/remnants/table tops that I can use for the piece by the fridge and the little half/table top.

As for the microwave...I'm still doing research. I want two ovens, so I'll either do a range with oven/microwave...or a cooktop with double ovens and the microwave in another location. And, the half wall would start after the ovens...so full wall, then half wall behind countertops.

Hopefully this is a little easier to read...
{{gwi:1448545}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

And in overall plan... {{gwi:1448546}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

Yes, I understand full wall behind the O/M and then the pony wall. What I am saying is that your drawing does not show the overhang on the pony wall. You have a wall between the kitchen and the keeping room with part of it being a full wall (behind the O/M) and part of it being the pony wall. On top of the pony wall you are going to have either tile or a solid surface (wood, marble). This top is going to overhang the pony wall, but what is going to happen at the intersection of the pony wall top and the full wall? On the kitchen side it won't matter because it will hit the side panel of the O/M cabinet. On the keeping room side it becomes a dangerous corner.

I'm not sure you if you understand what I am trying to say. If I am still not being clear, try drawing the pony wall top, including the overhang, in a different color.

Dekeoboe- The pony wall will be the same depth as the full wall, so I don't understand what you mean by a dangerous corner.

What I planned is for the O/M and an extra foot be a 7' wall, and then the pony wall. This would allow a bit of storage (I know...dust catcher! LOL) above the oven/microwave and provide a 'back' of sorts, to that end of the plate rack. And, it would make the 'open area' about 8' long, with the range in the middle.

Here's another drawing...maybe it will make a little more sense. Oh, and if you're worried about the corner sticking out past the back of the O/M...I'm making the pony wall even with the full wall, so it will be an 'L' but all even on the keeping room side. Does that make sense? {{gwi:1448548}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

And in the overall plan... {{gwi:1448549}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

I made these a little bigger, so hopefully they're easier to read! And, I changed the 'wing walls' between the kitchen and keeping room, so that the 'left' side is 2' and the 'right' side is 5'...what do you think?

I'm making the pony wall even with the full wall, so it will be an 'L' but all even on the keeping room side. Does that make sense?

I figured you would be making the wall even on the keeping room side, but that is not what your drawing is showing. Draw the wall behind the O/M and pony wall as one straight wall. Then put the top on the pony wall.

Bummer, this isn't coming out very big, but hopefully you can now see the corner that I was talking about. I would be afraid that corner would get in the way when you are getting into the pantry. Although I do see that with adding the extra foot to the tall part of the wall it does put the corner further away from the pantry.

I think we're talking about the same thing...let me draw it out really big, just to make sure :)

So, one square equals six inches. Of course, that wall/pony wall might only be 4", but you get the idea... {{gwi:1448551}}From Farmhouse plans

Yes, your drawing just doesn't show the overhang on the top of the pony wall. Previously, you did not have the extra cabinet next to the O/M. Without it, there would have been about 12" between the front of the pantry and the corner of the overhang. I was thinking that when you are standing in front of the pantry, you would be 12" away and it would be easy to hit that corner with your arm, elbow, etc. when you are try to get things out of the pantry. With the additional cabinet, it might not be so bad.

Forgot to answer the question about the wing walls. I don't care for them at all. You said they were necessary because that is a load bearing wall, but what if you use a beam instead? You mentioned wanting exposed beams. I think they look even better when they are there for a reason, and not just decorative.

Dekeoboe- This idea hit me this morning and I really like it...I hope you do, too :)

I closed off the doorway to the living room and turned the island. Now, the sink windows and island line up with the front window (which I like) and it gets rid of that 'hallway effect' that I didn't like. It's a little more of a walk to the living room, but not too far...and it will block some of the noise from the TV!

Hopefully you can read this, but the island has a prep sink and a bookcase on the end, facing the dining area. What do you think? {{gwi:1448552}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

And here's the new access to the living room... {{gwi:1448553}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

Thanks again for staying with me on this! Your ideas and observations have really helped me with my layout :)

Oh, and Lavender I love the bean idea instead of wing walls (if that is doable).

I like the beams, too! Here's a mock up that one of the kitchen forum people did for me...before I added the screened porch...with the beams :)
{{gwi:1448554}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures