Bathtub installation - mortar bed vs. adhesive method
formosalily
16 years ago
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formula1
16 years agotom_p_pa
16 years agoRelated Discussions
Semi-modern bathroom: Progress Photos, tub install onward...
Comments (9)1) We haven't used the toilet yet (we have to crawl up on the snowy roof and uncap the vent pipe which had been sealed for pressure testing... and it was a snowstorm this weekend so DH did not do it!) so I can't comment too much on that yet. But it's a beautifully made and beeautiful-looking thing. 2) The tub's "leveling feet" (just little blocks of wood fiberglassed to the bottom of it) need to sit on subfloor or be shimmed to the correct height. Since our tub deck is about an inch or so taller than if the tub was sitting right on the subfloor, we needed to raise it up. Rather than shim the feet in place (since we had no access) or build the feet up on the tub itself, this was easier. We screwed blocks of wood to the floor itself, then used a hand plane to plane them down several times, placing the tub in the hole and checking its level each time, till we got it right. If the deck had been the same height as the tub rim, you'd just see cleared areas for the feet to rest, rather than the wood blocks, in the mortar bed....See Morebathtub install -- help!! --concrete under only one end? mongo??
Comments (4)When a manufacturer stipulates that the bottom of the tub must be supported by a full mortar bed, if it's not you'll likely end up with excessive flexing in the bottom of the tub when it's used. Not all tubs are engineered the same way, thus the varying installation instructions. Why let him gamble in your house? He can roll the dice somewhere else. While it's unlikely that you'll have an actual warranty problem with the tub (versus an installation problem), should you ever have a tub problem, Kohler will walk away since they'll have the "get out of jail free card" of the tub not having been installed according to their specifications. So simply have him install it IAW with manufacturer's instructions. That way there will be no guessing about future tub flex or movement issues, both of those can lead to noise when weight is put in the tub. Nothing worse than a squeaky bath. Not all tubs are engineered the same way, thus the varying support methods in the installation instructions. Closed cell foam does cure hard, but it still flexes, and over time it can shrink. Foam is fine as an under-tub filler (not for support, just as a filler) for me for tubs that don't need to be set in a mortar bed. Foam can provide a little extra sound deadening and additional insulation. But again, I don't depend on it for structural support. Sheet plastic is a better slip and release agent than silicon. And faster. And less messier. And cheaper. It's pretty easy to dry set a tub level and at the appropriate height over an unlevel subfloor, then measure the distance between the feet and the subfloor, cut infill blocks of the appropriate height, set and secure the blocks, then lift the tub, place the cement bed, then reset the tub so the feet are on the support blocks and the remainder of the tub base is supported by the mortar bed. I used to be a rocket scientist, and this ain't rocket science. You are correct to want to have this tub reset. Your plumber shouldn't be insulted, he should simply improve his work methods. Do it once and do it right. As he'll find out it's easier, faster, and less expensive in the long run....See MoreDuravit vs Americh tub
Comments (11)Hi Linelle! Thank you so much for your posts. I am remodeling my bathroom and purchased the Duravit Architec for a tub that will also be used as shower like yours. I was just about to send it back because when I stood in it after it was delivered, it seemed super slippery. Your tip on the non slip strips is a great solution. When I stood in the tub it felt very narrow at the base-does it feel cramped when you shower? This will be used as a shower 95% and a soaking tub 5%, so it's important that it feel good and comfortable when showering. How tall was your previous tub (ours was 8-9) and how difficult is it entering and exiting this one (almost 20'). I didn't realize how tall it was before ordering. Also, how has the tub held up-any feedback on how it's worn over the past 10-11 months? And lastly, did your installers have to do anything special during the installation (foam, insulation, mortar??). Thanks so much!!!...See MoreGuide to building a good Shower/Tub Combo
Comments (0)We’d all love to have enough space and money for separate bathtub and showers in our bathrooms (and a big shower, not those claustrophobia inducing standard shower stalls), but for many its just not a feasible option for various reasons. As such, we are faced with the choice of shower only, tub only, or the frequently derided bath/shower combo. Everything is a compromise somewhere and with the tub/shower, the complaint is you can’t really get a good shower or a good bath with one. What is one to do? I faced that decision when I remodeled, so I set about figuring out how to make the tub/shower give you both the best possible bath and shower experience that can be had given the limitations of the form factor. This guide is to share what I learned as others look to remodel or build new. 1. The first thing to consider is the tub itself. As already indicated, a bath/shower is a compromise by nature. The goal is to figure out which part of the compromise is the most livable and doesn’t greatly affect enjoyment. Unfortunately, the one factor that can’t be avoided is step-in height vs bathtub height (this excludes the new walk-in tubs, which are another thing altogether and which I won’t address here). Given that showers tend to be more common than baths, the compromise here will be more in favor of the shower. The traditional alcove style cast iron tub height was 14.5 inches. It made for a really shallow bath but an easier step-in. With soaker tubs of the alcove and drop in variety, you typically see tubs with heights of 20 to 25 inches, which can be quite uncomfortable/cumbersome to step over. My advice for a shower/tub is to have the step-over height in the range of 16-18 inches (tub height excluding tile flange, sometimes listed heights include the flange so one needs to examine specs closely). This makes for a reasonable step-over height, while providing a deeper potential bath soak. I say potential because with tubs, the external dimensions often mean little when it comes to internal basin dimensions (more on that in moment). Note that soak depth can be increased through various methods of bypassing the overflow drain (I’ll leave others to debate the merits of doing so). In the design of the tub, you want the outside tub wall/ledge to be relatively narrow. A wider ledge just makes it more difficult to step over. For those with lower mobility, mount a hand rail on the wall vertically for support. 2. Since you can’t have a deeper tub, how do you make a better bath experience? By getting a wider tub, which actually improves the shower experience as well. This is where internal dimensions are critical. Tubs that may have the same external dimensions can have widely different interior dimensions. At this point the only thing you need to look at external dimensions is for space requirements/installation issues. What you need to be looking at primarily is internal dimensions. You need to try to find specs for internal basin at the bottom and internal basin at the top. While length is important, there tends to be less variation in that spec, where it is most critical is in width. The wider the better, though I recommend a minimum of 25” at the bottom and/or 27” at the top. For bathing the bottom measurement is more important. You should also look at soaking depth. Shoot for a minimum soak depth (depth to bottom of overflow) of 12”. Again, the bypassing of overflow valves can provide deeper depth but that is another subject. For length, shoot for minimum of 44” at the bottom and 52” at the top. The best tub I found that meets all those requirements was the Kohler Expanse (available in two sizes, and is also available in a heated model) and I highly recommend it, but if that is not an option for you, the other specs provided will help to give some guidance. 3. With the tub chosen, when it comes to installing, I advise a good mortar bed. The goal here is to have the bottom of the tub feel rigid. I hate stepping in a cheap tub or shower stall base, and feeling any flex in the material as you step around. A higher quality tub will tend to be less prone to this as the walls tend be made thicker, but good support underneath is a must. Also, make sure to insulate the tub when you install it. This can be accomplished through various methods, spray in or otherwise. The easiest is just to use unbacked fiberglass matting. Insulating the tub keeps the tub water warmer longer and also provides sound deadening (it helps to get rid of the cheap, hollow, plinking sound of water hitting fiberglass/acrylic). 4. For a surround, definitely go with tile rather than your acrylic/fiberglass stalls/etc and make sure to take the tile all way to the ceiling. The tile will make the space seem more luxurious and by taking it to the ceiling it adds a feeling of expansiveness/quality that just improves the shower experience. 5. Shower spout should be mounted at a minimum of 78 inches high. The valve/controls should be between 32 and 36 inches. Any higher and it becomes difficult to reach when in the tub and any lower and taller people will end up stooping to reach it. 6. Do not use glass doors for a tub/shower combo. It is a hard surface that will restrict the space and make the shower experience feel too closed in. With a tub preventing the glass from extending to the floor visually, they also lose a lot of their aesthetic appeal over how they appear in a walk-in shower. Instead, use a curved shower rod. It will help to widen the shower space. You can shower without feeling you will be bumping the shower curtain. Use double shower hooks that allow you to hang a curtain and liner on separate hooks (Moen makes really nice double hooks). These greatly simplify the hanging and removal of the curtains for cleaning and make shower curtains much more livable. (As an aside: This may be common knowledge, but when using a liner, unless you love splashing water outside the tub, the liner goes out when bathing, and in when showering. Bathwater should be kept pretty shallow for kids, which will help keep the water in the tub and is safer.) From my own experience, I love showering in my tub/shower. It is basically the equivalent of a 3x5 shower and it feels like it is inside. The only difference is that I have to step over the tub to get in and out, but it is low enough and narrow enough to not be bothersome. My wife loves the giant bathing space that is the equivalent to most garden tubs in interior width and length, if not depth (but still deeper than the typical, basic bathtub)....See MoreMongoCT
16 years agoformosalily
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