another picture of the main stack

Will there be anything done that has to be inspected in the basement? If not, there'd be no reason for them to even go down there. Close the door and don't worry about it.

We had our remodeled bathroom plumbing inspection and they didn't even go into the basement. If you aren't making any changes in the basement I doubt your inspector would go there.

well the bathroom in question is on the first floor and the plumbing for it is in the basement the wife wants to move the fixtures around to improve use of space, so there would be new sanitary lines run to the stack. I am worried that prior occupants had work done that wasn't code or permitted and redoing everything is not in the scope of my budget. here is the room in question, she wants claw foot tub under window toilet and sink to the wall the tub is on now

Hard to say. Since you're moving stuff around in the basement the inspector should inspect it. That doesn't mean he will.

Since you've got the plumber there any way, it would probably be a good idea to have him fix that leaking mess.

You could always try doing it without a permit. If you get caught, you pay a fine and the permit fee. Plus there's the stop work order which causes delays. You'd have to gauge how discretely the work can be done and how good you and your wife are at keeping your mouths shut when talking to neighbors. If all your neighbors already know you're planning on a remodel, you may as well get the permit.

If you live in a large, corrupt city like Chicago, bribery still works, but you'd have to consult with the plumber ahead of time to learn if it's a possibility and what the correct amount would be. I guess that's not being "above board" though.

In my location the inspectors look at the work you pulled the permit for and that seems to be it. However, my plumber and electrician each told me independently that more than 75% of the bathroom and kitchen remodeling done in my city is without permits. They may be more vigilant where you are.

When my kitchen was remodeled the rough inspectors definitely went into the basement to inspect the plumbing and the electrical down there as well as in the kitchen itself. They did not look at anything else in the basement.
I doubt that the inspectors will know what is listed on the tax records as far as the basement toilet and sink go. If the sink and toilet are in an actual room then just shut the door. You could even lock it if you are worried.

The final inspector did not go in the basement and just stood in the kitchen admiring my cabinets. Most likely the permit work will trigger a new assessment. The assessor that came to our house just did a "look see" in the kitchen. She did not ask about any other rooms.

Obviously, things could be different in your community.

From the picture you posted it does look like your bathroom is quite small. If you do a free standing tub under the window are you sure you will be able to fit the toilet and vanity on the other wall. I believe that by code the minimum clearance from the center of the toilet to a wall or vanity is 15 inches.

Good luck on your remodel

Here is a link that might be useful: Bathroom design rules

Thanks for all the input, I have a couple of plumbers coming for estimates I will get their thoughts also. The clearances should be fine but still tight. A lot of the bungalow bathrooms I have looked at originally had the toilet in the corner on an angle. I am fine with the existing layout but would like new fixtures. I realize the cost in moving fixture locations add up in a hurry.

lowkey235:

The abomination in your basement must be addressed before any cosmetics elsewhere. You should invite the inspectors down after your plumber has completed his work.

thanks for the link badgergal it seems my bathroom doesn't meet min. required clearances as it is. there is no way I have 24" clearance for the tub closer to 18". my question is if I leave the fixtures in place are they grandfathered in as far as code goes? do I only have to meet code if i make a change? I am kinda scared to ask the local building department..don't want to raise any interest yet.

My feeling on permits is that whether or not you pull one, your finished product should be up to code. There is a reason for codes and you want your project to at least meet those minimum safety requirements. The problem in an old bathroom like yours is that you're going to be pinched on space which may or may not meet newer code requirements either before or after a rennovation. I think the question you need to ask about the bathroom space is, yes, you want a claw foot tub, but will it fit? How about if you put it where the shower is currently? Is there any way you can borrow space from an adjoining room or closet to increase the square footage in the bathroom? - this is both a physical and financial question. As a full bath, this space is going to require some creative thinking.

Regardless of whether you end up moving the sink and toilet around, I absolutely agree with Trebruchet: "The abomination in your basement must be addressed before any cosmetics elsewhere." Is the person responsible for that mess also responsible for the basement bathroom installation? If so, be sure to have your (aboveboard) plumber have a look. Hopefully it's functionally fine, but it would be good to verify that with someone who knows. If its only problem is that it's a black ops bathroom, then just shut the door and play dumb should an inspector be on the premises.

The inspectors will inspect the work you have called out on the permit. They do not inspect other areas of the home.

Wellllll....where I am, pulling a permit for ANYTHING requires not only showing off your CO detectors but now, new this year, toilets and faucets must be low-flow models.

So I get to locate a new pink toilet in this day and age.

But you're probably okay.

This is a varies by location question. When we bought our house there was a pre-existing un-permitted and not-to-code electrical box. (The inspector missed that--lovely!). We discovered it when we brought an electrician in to bid on another problem and he alerted us. We had not closed on the house yet.

We definitely wanted the box brought up to standard and permitted. We just wanted to do it in the way that was least likely to get us penalized for the previous owner's non-compliant work. Our electrician does a lot of local work and knows the inspectors. So he asked, hypothetically. And they told him, hypothetically, that it we were getting the work done they felt no need to call the enforcement guys in and penalize us for the previous owner's problem. They would be happy to see us fixing the problem and just inspect it as usual. BUT, if we were having other stuff done and they came to inspect it and saw the old non-complaint stuff that would be a different story.

We proceeded with replacing the box, it was permitted, and inspected and passed with no penalties.

So I would definitely raise this with the contractors you are interviewing. They should be able to give you some guidance about the local situation. I have to say that for my peace of mind, I would seriously consider getting the un-permitted work cleared up before proceeding with the new remodeling.

I think to some degree, people do unpermitted work because of various problems with the permitting and inspection process. Here, the inspection process can be anything from so cursory as to be non-existent or so nit-picky as to be impossible to please the inspector(s)

1) Cursory: a client of mine installed a gas, vented fireplace with a chimney through the roof. It was permitted (as was the entire project), and I was present for the inspection which involved the inspector getting out of the car, looking up at the top of the chimney coming through the roof (which you could only see the top of), saying "That's the chimney?" checking off a box, and driving away.

2) Impossible: a township over, *two* inspectors, a team, inspected a kitchen and had an argument about the single handled faucet (an American made faucet) because one of them thought that "the ergonomics did not reflect the fact that hot is to the left and cold is to the right, that the way the handle worked was 'wrong'". They would not pass the house until a different faucet was installed. After which the plumber came back and put in the faucet they wanted again.

In the city, because of the housing stock, (mostly 19th century and on lots as narrow as 12 feet), it would be impossible to meet the modern code for clearances or "on center" positions for bath fixtures, and the modern code for stairs. Luckily they are pretty generous about grandfathering certain things because you can't get blood out of a stone (there's no way to add square footage to these houses), but people do work under the radar because of fear of having to change something that is almost impossible, and definitely expensive to change.

That said, since much work is done unpermitted, a lot of it is lousy. I am surprised my house hasn't burnt down or flooded due to the terrible and dangerous work I am uncovering in my bathroom demolitions. But I think, like I said, this is partly to blame on the inspection process and certain types of inspectors who are either so lazy as to make it pointless or on a power trip about something they have a bug up their butt about.

After checking with my contractor, we didn't pull permits for my bathroom remodel, which is basically replacing in kind. No new or moved structural, plumbing or electrical.

We did our entire project with permits. We live in a live-work building, which doesn't have to meet certain requirements that regular buildings do, like ceiling height . Because of the lofts, certain rooms, in our case the two bathrooms, have very low ceilings (all the units in the building have SOME areas that have low ceiling because they took 13' industrial ceilings and cut them in half to create the lofts). Anyway, the first inspector came out and said this doesn't meet code. Yes it does, but he wouldn't pass us until my DH went to the planning department, met with the inspector and his boss, explained that this is a live-work building that has different rules, etc. the guy told him to go to the building department and find the original permits for the conversion. So he went up to the building department, which gave him the microfiche, and guess what, they couldn't find our building at all! Fortunately, the "boss" said he wouldn't hold us up since they couldn't locate the plans and permits for the conversion. The whole system is crazy.

Thanks for all the input, I haven't had the plumber in yet, I will also discuss the situation with the local inspector.I would like to keep the cast iron stack if possible.

When we've had inspections they've only looked at the work being done but I could see that any code violations in plain sight might be noted and acted on.

We recently pulled a permit for adding a tiny bathroom - the fee was almost $1000! We also had to pull a new sewer permit because the planning and sewer departments couldn't locate one for our house that should have been pulled in the 70's. The city staff were pretty accommodating though and only charged us the fee in place back then.

I'm all for getting permits but I'm not sure about the value of inspections. DH had first roughed in the shower opening too narrow (we started the project many years ago before we were as familiar with code requirements) and I wanted him to widen it, both to meet code and for function. DH was resistant because rerouting the plumbing next to the opening might have required digging up the concrete floor. The inspector didn't catch it until DH pointed it out. I think they might have let it go but I wouldn't - and my wonderful DH figured out a better way to reroute the plumbing to widen the opening.

The problem is that you never know in advance what they will "let go" and what they won't, so if you want to be sure, do it to code (even if the code seems to be silly).

Examples - Where our circuit breaker panel is in the bedroom - we had to open up the partition wall in front of it because it wasn't the required distance from the panel - I think it was 32" and it was supposed to be 36" or something like that. On the other hand, I know that we have a non-conforming light fixture in our closet. I also know it's not a safety issue because its an LED fixture so it doesn't get hot, but the code hasn't been updated and only allows fluorescent lights facing down (i.e. bulbs not covered). Well, that one they missed. Here's another - because we were doing ANY electrical, we had to replace every single outlet under 52" high with a tamper-proof outlet. Not just the ones we were working on, or the ones in the rooms we were working on, every single outlet under 52" in the entire condo! (now that we're about to be grandparents, that's probably not a bad thing!). And although we had shower-rated light fixtures in both showers, we didn't have them installed correctly, and that they made us correct. We had an under-overhang outlet that we had to correct (which meant putting a plate over the opening), but other things were overlooked. You just never know.

In our previous home, we did a couple of major remodels to code and with permits, but never got them signed off. We were petrified we'd have a problem on sale. Fortunately, we found a buyer who bought "with all warts" figuring he was going to do so much remodeling he'd get it all fixed this go-around. Lucky for us.

We did a major addition with permits, but I'm not pulling a permit for a bathroom gut that is cosmetic. No walls being moved. Only the bathtub drain is being shifted about 18 inches. The house is only about 12 years old so we aren't dealing with old electrical and plumbing. We already found a few weird things done when it was built and we have fixed them while we have easy access.