If you are replacing your counter tops, why stay with a 30" Cooktop???

I have the Miele 36" KM 5773 Induction Cooktop, and LOVE, LOVE it. Thermador, Electrolux and Bosch also make great Induction units.

I use big pots all the time. The Miele has 2 Big burners, 1 giant burner and 2 small ones. I have a nice collection of Le Creuset, Demeyere, Schulte-Ufer, Berndes, All-Clad...and they all fit and work beautifully.

Just go up to 36", and you'll have no problems using several big pots at once!

You'll need a good hood -- plan on at least 600 cfm, but how much power depends a lot on how and what you cook. Other threads on that here.

As for your pots and pans: Measure the diameter of the flat bottom surface for induction. This will be less than the usual measurements, taken at the top of the sides: depending on how its sides slant, a 10.5" saute pan might have an 8" flat bottom. Try to find a cooktop where the hobs match up pretty well with your induction-ready (i.e., magnetic) pots and pans, and that has enough room between hobs to fit your pans simultaneously (that's where the top dimensions matter). Maybe take your pots & pans in to a store and see how they fit.

The Induction Site may also be useful for you.

Some (all?) induction units cycle, but this cycling is not a bother. I'm guessing its way different (more subtle) from how you describe your GE ceramic. The best bet may be to try cooking something on a store model somewhere.

Most of us here really like induction. Except for grilling peppers...

@larsi, we're replacing the counter tops but not the cabinets. The cook top is in the island and I'm pretty sure it will have to fit between the two drawers/cabinets on either side.

This is not our forever-home so we are doing the minimum to make it sell-able in 5-6 years and still be livable for those 5-6 years (in other words, the current cook top has to go but we can't justify spending a fortune to replace it).

However, I think this would be an excellent opportunity to see whether induction will work for our forever-home, once we're in it.

We frequently entertain large numbers of people and many of my pans are stock and saute pans with straight sides and bottoms that are 9-11 inches plus I have this humongous Le Creuset that's about 16" (I didn't measure it, it's hard to get at, but it's huge) which I do use.

I've been researching this for days and just realized that all my All Clad LTD pans won't work so this may be a no-go for that reason! I have 9 pans that I would need to replace and I don't know of anyone who makes an induction-able multi-ply which extends up the sides in the sizes/shapes I need.

I have to love my cookware, as well as the cook top. My favorite is Iittala but the line is really limited -- no saute pans, risotto pans, 6/7qt stock, and only one fry pan

I'm leaning towards the 30" Bosch (assuming I can get over the replacing-my-pans issue). None of the local stores have these units in stock so I'm buying blind and relying on GardenWeb members to help me make the right decision.

@chac_mool DH won't let me put a hood over the island -- it will make the small kitchen appear even smaller -- so I have to go with a downdraft, as awful as they are. I rarely fry but I do saute and cook fish. IMO downdrafts are almost worthless so I'd be willing to forgo venting but DH won't let me do that, either.

Thank you!

Barb

Q: why does one need a vent?
A: for grease smoke, as with any cooking.
(Downdraft is no good at all when you have a real smoke scene happening.)

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Email sent to a couple manufacturers will bring you responses.
I would email them about cooking with several extra wide pots where the element may only cover 80% of the surface area of the pot bottom.

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"... effectively, only two settings -- high and off -- which makes it impossible to cook anything on low. ..."
First off, know this: When cycling happens a million times a second, your food does not react to it as though the heat were high and low alternatively.

In fact, neither do you know when things are cycling at high speed. I can't say anything specific about the cycle speeds inside the electronic circuits that power the induction elements.

Cycle speeds are a normal and essential way to do everything digital.

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HEre is the part that seems unusual to me.
And, I think there may be a misconception too.
"... many pots and pans that are larger than 11". ... rarely use a pot smaller than 4 qt sauce. ..."
I don't get it.
I have 4 qt pots that are 8" diameter.
Why are yours as wide as large frying pans?
If that IS the case, why would you not WANT to buy a few 8" pots?
It's no big deal.
By storing a smaller pot inside a larger one you don't even need more space for it.

I believe they might all work well on the medium burners. If it's way more than 9" diameter, the element is still going to heat 80% of the surface of the bottom. Heat spreads.
.. " ... How does induction manage a 14" saute pan or a 12"..."

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Of course, another alternative is the zone-free unit. I have seen a zone free AEG cooktop in Montreal, in a showroom. (Electricity is the same on both sides of the border, so anything that works there works here). Several AEG appliances have been available there for years. It seems that Canada gets some imported appliances before the US.

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I believe the Ikea induction cooktop has burners with two ring sizes (diameters) around the medium burners. Ask Ikea what that means. By email.

Hth

@davidro1, here is some clarification:

"When cycling happens a million times a second, your food does not react to it" I would love to have even several times a second but our cook top cycles on for 5 seconds then off for 10. If induction cycles multiple times per second, that's OK. But if I see bubbles, then I may be better off with gas.

"I don't get it. I have 4 qt pots that are 8" diameter. Why are yours as wide as large frying pans?" They aren't. I have many smaller pans but I rarely use them. I USE the bigger pans. The only time I'll use the smaller pans is to cook rice or reheat a sauce.

My favorite saute pans are 9" and 11.5" and my favorite stock pot is 9". I frequently use all three of them simultaneously (with difficulty on the cook top we currently have).

It looks like the 30" Miele would be a better fit for me, with one 11", two 8", and one 7" burner.

Another configuration I use is the 7.5" stock, 9" saute, a 20 qt stock pot, and the 7" stock. Again, this might work with the Miele.

Hmmm...it looks the the 30" Miele might solve my big pans problem as long as the 11" burner will turn on with the huge LeCreuset pan over it (it's the 13qt size)...

A zone-free cooktop would be perfect but how would I get one?

That leaves only the downdraft problem. My BFF has a gas range and no vent...why do I need one?

Thank you,

Barb

needing to vent, or not? There already are 20 or 30 threads about this venting or not question. Leave this thread about one topic only. My suggestion to you.

Unfortunately, I think the AEG zone-free only comes in 36".

Check out the Miele 30". It has 11", 2-8", and 7" zones. It also requires less clearance around and under than some of the other brands. (Although I'm convinced the clearance thing is just CYA.) It is pricier.

I highly recommend you give induction a try. I've had the KitchenAid induction cooktop for 18 months, and I absolutely love it! It is "faster" than most residential gas ranges (and microwaves, too), boiling 2 cups of water in While I do have the 36", I looked up the specs on the KA 30", and the burner sizes are 10", 9",7", and 6". Bear in mind that the pan dimensions usually refer to the opening at the top, not the actual bottom that touches the burner. IE, my 10" fry-pan works fine on a 7" "burner".

I learned that today there is really little difference in the very high-end induction cooktops and the more moderate priced ones. I went with the KA because it is "rimless" and has no sidebars for junk to become trapped, plus I preferred the sleek look.

For venting, instead of a downdraft, I went with the KA pop-up vent, which is far superior to the in-cooktop downdraft. It does require a couple of inches behind the cooktop, so it may not be an option for you in your present kitchen, but it's an excellent option if you want the cooktop in an island in your next home.

As for pans, well, I had to replace all of mine. Instead of spending a fortune initially, I went with Cook's Illustrated's high ratings on the Trimontina 3-ply set available from Walmart. It came with 2 fry pans, 2 sauce pans, and a stock pot for circa $200. I'm adding All-Clad pieces to augment that set, and am very happy with both.

If you have a pan or two that aren't induction capable that you can't live without, you can use a portable electric burner or and "induction disk" that you put under your pot. You will lose the instant reaction and speed of induction with this, but it won't be any worse than your existing electric stovetop.

Carry a magnet with you when you go shopping!
Ellen

Yes, I really, really want to try induction!

The 30" Miele looks like it will work for me but I have to resolve the vent/exhaust issue so I have been reading through all the 'venting' threads and it looks like I might be able to get away without a downdraft if our local code allows it. I've asked our contractor to look into that for me.

The only thing I'm worried about is fish. No matter what, it smells when you cook it, and I do cook fish....

Barb

I have the 30" GE Profile (without the stainless rim) which has one 11", 2 8", and 1 6" in a configuration that works well for me. As noted above, the bottom of the pan is what you measure (my 10" All-clad fry pan, as an example, has an 8" bottom) and I think GE says you can use pans that are 2" larger than the burner. I was choosing between the GE and the Bosch (also without the stainless rim), but ended up buying the GE because I got an incredible price ($1,280 plus GE was having a rebate at the time if you bought two or more appliances so by also buying a GE hood I ended up with a $600 rebate). The Bosch did have the advantage of having individual timers like the Miele has, but the price was considerably more than the GE (though also considerably less than the Miele).

ooakfolk, Look into the telescope downdraft - Much better than the surface downdraft like Jenn Air.

@eandhl, I would prefer the telescoping downdraft but, if the downdraft isn't part of the cooktop itself, like some GE and JennAir are, then I don't have room for it. We are only replacing the counter tops, not the cabinets and there are drawers and cabinets on either side of the cooktop which I can't afford to lose.

According to the 30" GE spec sheet the medium burners are only 7". Is the spec sheet wrong? That extra inch makes a difference to me.

Does the GE have a boil over sensor?

Does it shut off as soon as you remove the pan or do you have a few minutes before it kills the power?

Unfortunately, they don't make a model with a downdraft.

No one that I know of makes an induction with an integrated downdraft.

Thanks,
Barb

I am a huge fan of induction but I'm extremely frustrated with our AEG/Electrolux 88131K. I had the previous model with great results but after a forest fire we had to rebuild and I replaced with what was supposed to be the same cooktop.
I just spent the morning with a great service guy after eight months of wrangling to get AEG to agree it needed to be looked at . The upshot is that they have changed the design and it's functionally poorer.
The large element although it senses a large pot and draws more current still only fires up in the centre so food cooks unevenly. If a middle size pot is on the large element it draws way less power than when it's on the small element so you end up fishing all your cooking on and off the small element and watching carefully if you use the large one.
The repair guy was as unimpressed as I was with the unit but AEG really couldn't care as electrically it fits its specifications.I'm furious that I was sold this unit as identical to the old one.
This unit although nominally Electrolux does not fall under the Electrolux guarantee as it has the AEG name ....
With the hole in my granite ,the cabinets size specific so that it doesn't fit a Miele I think I'm SOL....but caveat emptor, I will not be buying another AEG product as their customer service stinks.
Sorry about the rant. I'm sure you'll love whichever you choose.Even with it's lousy function it still wipes up beautifully....but what a cost for great cleanup!!

ooakfolk,

I looked at the GE specs and you are right, they do say 7" for the two burners on the left of the 30" cooktop. They definitely measure 8". I thought maybe the specs had changed since I bought it, but I looked at the specs I printed out at the time and it did say 7". I also looked in all the way through the reading material that came with the cooktop, but it only talked about the smallest size pan you could use on each burner, but did not seem to say the size of the burners. Anyway, they definitely do measure 8" while the smallest is 6+" and the largest is 11+".

However, in answer to your other question, no, I do not believe that the GE has a boil over sensor. I think the Bosch does (though I am not sure) and the individual timers would have been nice sometimes (probably only when I do my soft boiled eggs every morning). But the difference in price was significant, and I actually liked the arrangement of the burners in the GE better for my purposes. We have been very happy with it so far, but YMMV.

Pretty much all induction units kill the power as soon as the pot is no longer detected. The differences come as to how long it will wait for you to put the pot back before running out of patience. Some wait about a minute, some a bit longer.

chilkoot -that is a drag about your large burner - wonder if that is something else that is wrong. My Elux is about 18 months old.

I did some testing on mine using washers, and my large double zone burner actually turns the whole large area on no matter what size pan. I put a small pan, and then a smal washer within the larger cicle, and the butter on teh washer metled. I even did it with just the edge of the washer overlapping the circle (most outside of it) and the butter on that small part melted (not the rest).

To the OP - if you are using oversized pans on your GE, it's no wonder they are cycling off and on. The ones I had had sensors outside of the burner and if they got hot they would cause the burner to cycle. I had to be carefull with my big canner and get it just right to keep the burner from cycling off and on.

I'm now in love with induction, and even though after 15 years I got real good at knowing how to use a regular ceramic top electric unit- I'd be in tears if I ever had to go back to that.

My biggest frypan is about 12" on the bottom, and I use a 22 qt stock pot on the large burner. I did just see a really wide stockpot, wondered how much it would hold and not worry about serious splattering.

I love big stockpots - DH shakes his head and askes "where are you going to put THAT one?"

First of all, I think I have solved the exhaust/venting problem! (For reference, our cooktop is in the island.) My contractor suggested that we install an exhaust fan (similar to a bathroom fan) in the wall over the cabinets behind the island. It will vent onto the patio on the other side of that wall (in other words, directly outside, rather than through the basement as our current downdraft does). Our current downdraft does a miserable job - there is grease all over the fridge across the aisle from the island and the house reeks whenever I cook. I don't think the wall vent will help with the grease but it should remove the heat and steam. Can anyone think of a reason why this would not work?

@vitamins: Thank you for checking your specs against your cooktop! I might just end up with that unit.

@weedmeister: I'd like to know what the kill time is for the GE and the Miele 30" units. I'm a big 'pot shaker' and if doing so will cause the burner to turn off, that would be a problem. In fact, what does pot shaking do to the controls on an induction cooktop?

@macybaby: I have a ceramic glass electric, not an induction, and the cycling happens regardless of pot size. It's a 'feature' of this type of cooktop (my MIL complains about it, too, and she has a different brand). I will never buy another ceramic glass electric for that reason. However, if using my huge pots on an induction burner will cause it to cycle, that would be a problem, too...

Thank you, everyone, for your help! It's been invaluable!

Barb

Wall vent:

(All other threads addressing the issues of capture and containment are incorporated herein by reference.)

A wall vent displaced from the immediate area of the cooking surface will eventually remove odor and whatever humidity and grease vapor remains in the air. Most grease and water vapor will condense on surfaces in the kitchen and house first, unless this wall vent is enormous with an appropriately sized blower. In such a case, conditioning of adequate make-up air would be very difficult.

It is unfortunate that so many kitchens are designed (and flaunted in magazines) with island and peninsula cooktop locations that lack consideration for capture and containment.

kas

"what does pot-shaking do to the controls?"

Nothing.

"what does pot-shaking do to the controls?"

Nothing.

True...if you're talking about today's cooktops. Some older models and some of the cheaper portables turned off immediately if you lifted the pot an inch to shake and were really annoying. The companies really are responsive, however, and it's a programming rather than structural issue so doesn't take a whole redesign to alter. My two year old induction, and most of the appliance size ones out, give you time to lift and shake or wipe underneath or pour off some, etc., before shutting off. Mine blinks so you know it's missing its pan. Do make sure, before you buy, that you do have a delay before it automatically shuts off.

Re shaking, also on a ceramglass surface you should completely lift a fraction to shake, rather than partially lifting or scooting. Crystals, like salt and sugar, that may have spilled or adhered to the bottom of your pot can scratch the surface.

The GE manual I just looked at said 30 seconds. The Electrolux manual stated 3 minutes.

that time was for how long the cooktop will wait for you to put the pan back before determining that you no longer are interested in cooking.

btw: if you can put a fan in the wall above the cooktop, why not a rear-venting hood (Kobe)?

I am not a shaker, but we do make filtered drip coffee every morning and take the pan off to pour some water and then put it back on the burner. The burner does flash "F" when the pan is off, but goes back to whatever it was set at when the pan is put back on the burner. I have not actually timed it to see how long that takes, but I will try doing that.

@kaseki: that's what happens now, with the downdraft, except that whatever doesn't adhere to the kitchen surfaces goes into the rest of the house. At least with a wall exhaust some of it will go outside. I hope.

@weedmeister: Putting a hood over the island would be prohibitively expensive and would make the already too-small kitchen appear even smaller. DH won't let me do it. Kitchen is very badly designed but correcting it would take too much money to justify given that we probably won't be here more than 5 years.

Also, @weedmeister, thank you for checking the kill time on the GE. That's the unit I am considering. Whether I get that one of the Miele will depend on the cost of the other things we must do.

Thank you, EVERYONE, for all your input!

Barb

I'm not a big fan of downdraft, but better than no vent at all. I believe there are one or two incudtion/telecsoping downdraft combinations that will fit in a standard cabinet if installed correctly together. I think GE has that option, but possibly only with the monogram cooktop model. You might want to check the options. When I first looked at GE option, the telescope downdraft would not fit with the profile induction cooktop. But I have no personal experience with this option, just a little research.
HTH.

I haven't read most of the posts but to the OP, we went with an Electrolux 30" over gas (Wolf or Capital quality) and couldn't be happier. We cook similar to you and have no problem with two large pans, but when we use four burners the other two fit medium/small.

The electolux has a lot of great features and if you buy a range the oven is excellent. The "perfect turkey" mode and probe are fantastic, and that's coming from someone who's spent years perfecting roast chicken, duck and turkey.

Hope this helps.

@happycooker, one of the contractors we're considering was here on Friday and told me that if I get the Miele cooktop there would be room for the Miele telescoping downdraft so that is what we will be going with IF we can afford it.

Apparently, there is room in a standard cabinet for a telescoping downdraft and a cooktop if the cooktop is also a standard size. The Miele is actually a little narrower so there is plenty of room.

I could live with the GE cooktop since the medium burners are also 8" but I would prefer to have the burner layout and the other features that the Miele offers, if possible.

I won't know what we can afford appliance-wise until tomorrow when we see what the quote for the labor is.

Thank you!

Maybe its just electrolux but I would never purchase an induction cooktop again. Who ever heard of a maximum pan size? Add that to not being able to cook on high on the two largest burners (8.5" oh boy) at the same time and you are very limited. I learned the hard way when using my large (10") dutch oven for stew and then boiled noodles. POP went the cooktop. The first thing the repairman said is "were you using a big pan?" I cook a lot. I have a 13" saute, the usual collection of LeCruset, Clam steamer and stock pots. Not to mention how are you expected to take your roast pan and deglaze it? Just cooking for a family of four is a real challenge on this. I was going to just eat the $1700 and get a gas cooktop but the minimum cutout for this unit in the granite is just a hair larger than the maximum allowed for a gas range. I'm stuck with this. I was able to crank out more food with my $275 four burner electric coil. Too many shills posting rave reviews without telling people what the limitations are. The 30" cooktop with 8" elements is only great when its dinner for 2. Just get gas and you don't have to deal with this nonsense.