Security System - dos and donts

13 years ago

We are meeting with our security system company soon. Any advice on things out of the ordinary to add or things that are really unnecessary. Thank you!

Comments (27)

emilynewhome
13 years ago
I don't know much about them, but my DD and SIL have had an awful lot of false alarms, several while they were out of state.
They had to weigh the fact of previous false fire alarms with having the fire department break down their front door!
They were told the false alarms were due to the sensitivity of the equipment!
arch123
13 years ago
WE have only been using our security system for a few months now - (because of break ins making me nervous). We have a DSC system - and it seems to be pretty simple - That's important! - according to the security guy and also the dog sitter. There is a remote for people that can't remember the code, also allows for motion in the house - loose dogs or no motion. We have not had any false alarms - I also like the panic button for either medical or crime. -easier then calling 911.
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Home security system advice
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Comments (28)
Admittedly, I'm more interested in a solid house than in bells and whistles that can break down and become outdated, but a security system isn't something upon which I'd spend money. Consider: A security system won't stop burglars from breaking into your house. It'll just alert the police that it has happened. Most burglaries happen FAST, and by the time the police arrive, the crooks are already gone. You MIGHT have pictures of the thieves, but more likely they'll have been smart enough to cover their faces. The biggest thing a security system is likely to give you is a discount on your insurance. Do the math and see how long it'll take you to "make back" the upfront cost of installation, and make an informed decision. And I would NEVER go for the type of system that has visual monitoring inside my house. Do I want the people at ADT (or whatever) knowing when I'm home? If I were a thief, I'd get myself a job at ADT and call my thief-friends, saying, "Hey, the Johnsons are gone. Here's their address." The poster who commented that everyone lives in a "safe neighborhood" . . . until something happens is right. Anyone can ride through your safe neighborhood -- even if it's gated. My oldest child was good buddies with a kid who lived in a gated community, and I never had any trouble driving her over to the friend's house . . . and getting in without help from her friend's grandparents. If I can do it, certainly a dishonest person can figure it out. Instead of spending on a security system, I'd look into the low-tech methods of home security, which are more likely to PREVENT the burglary: - Focus on a good, solid front door: Not too much glass and a deadbolt lock. Though they're lovely, avoid sidelights; they open you to danger in two ways: 1) a thief can break them, reach in and open your deadbolt. 2) if you have only a 2x4 between the door and the sidelight, a strong thief with a ram of some sort can break it and enter your house. Also choose a door that's visible to the road -- avoid plans that place your front door "deep" in a cave-like entry, and avoid landscaping that hides your door from the street. Though you want a strong front door, it's not the place the thieves are most likely to break in: They don't want a nosy neighbor to see them busting down a door, and they don't want the damaged door to sit there all day declaring, "A crime has been committed here!" - Don't neglect the back door. Thieves like to ring the front bell to see if you're home, but they're then likely to go around the back (where it's more private) to break in. Plus your back door is more likely to be a sliding glass door or a French door. Sliding glass doors are pretty thick, and it takes a strong thief to put a piece of firewood through them -- though it is possible. French doors tend to offer less security. Lots of people have good, solid deadbolts on the front door . . . but less security on the back door. And if you have a privacy fence (or a deep covered porch) in your back yard, the thief can probably go about his business in comfort, knowing that the neighbors aren't going to see him breaking your windows or back door. No matter what you do, your back door is probably your weakest point -- and we have to balance comfort and light with security concerns. - If you have an attached garage, put effort into that entrance. An experienced thief LOVES to get into a garage (probably through a man-door that has only a piddly little lock) because then he can take his time breaking in through your kitchen door. No neighbor will see him in the privacy of your garage! No lie: My in-laws bought a house that had ONLY an interior door -- yeah, just like your bedroom door! -- separating their kitchen from the garage. They changed that before they moved in. The point: Be sure your garage is just as secure as your house, and you have a deadbolt on your kitchen entrance door. - If your doors are secure, the thieves are likely to go on down the road to someone else's house, but don't neglect your first-floor windows -- especially if they're the tall type that a person could potentially step through easily. Be sure they're locked. Plant sticky-bushes like Holly or roses under them to make thieves reconsider entering that way. Or consider decorative bars, though that could constitute a fire hazard. - Do you own a ladder? Be sure it's locked up in your shed or garage. Don't offer thieves a way to get to your (often less protected) upstairs windows. - Try to plan your house so that your big-screen TV isn't visible from the front door (i.e., through sidelites or to a person who might be delivering packages). Don't give thieves a reason to choose you. - A safe inside the house will deter even experienced robbers. They want to get in and out of your house quickly. They're wise to ideas like hiding your money in the freezer, and they know that if you have a safe, it's probably in your master closet . . . but they're going to grab your electronics, guns, medicines . . . and GET OUT rather than wasting their time with a safe they probably can't enter anyway. A safe set into the floor or built into the wall can't easily be carried away to be opened later at their leisure. A safe is relatively inexpensive, and it's a one-time cost. - Automatic lights are inexpensive to install (the one in my pantry cost about $15, though exterior quality would cost more) and don't require monthly fees. No thief wants lights, and a light coming on suddenly inside the house and outside the house might convince the would-be-thief that someone is in the house (even if they aren't opening the door). Most thieves want in and out of the house FAST, and they don't want to meet any homeowners. - Plenty of studies have shown that a dog is the best deterrent to a break-in. Not everyone is interested in owning a dog and not every dog is a real deterrent, but just the presence of a dog will make many thieves go on down the road to another house. - If you have lots of nice steal-able stuff, increase your insurance. It's all replaceable. Most of the time people who rob individual homes are small-time crooks who are looking for things that're easy to sell: Electronics and guns. And drugs. LOTS of home burglaries are committed by people who are on drugs, and they'll clear out your medicine cabinet. But few home robberies are personal: That is, few robbers specifically know that you have ______, and they're going to come steal it. - Consider putting up fake cameras or fake security system stickers. You can buy some fairly good fake things that'll deter the thieves, and that's the real goal. Remember: Most robberies are crimes of opportunity. Most of us will never be targeted specifically; rather, the thieves will look at a row of houses and pick the one that looks easiest. If you offer some solid resistance, they'll move on to easier pickings. And most robberies are FAST -- less than 10-15 minutes.
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Mine are on the security system and I love it. We have numerous keypads and hear the chime when the doors or windows or whatever happens to be on the system, are opened. Maybe having your windows on there is a good idea too with children? Having two floors and possibly a basement,you'll need a few keypads to hear the chime. You don't need a monthly monitoring for the chimes to work. You also don't need to change batteries as it has a rechargable battery in the system. You can also install low voltage smoke detectors on the system and have that work in conjunction with the security system. Without the monthly monitoring, the smokes still ring, but obviously the Fire Dept. won't be automatically be notified. So, there are a few pros and cons to the whole decision.
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Trudy I have some experience with this - from my first house where I paid ADT to install the security system and my new house where I installed the security system myself. If you pay a company like ADT to do the security system - they will typically want to sell you additional separate smoke detectors that are connected to and monitored by the security system. These detectors are seperate and not connected to the smoke detectors that you need per your building code. Way back in 1993 when we had our first house built - the building code only required 1 smoke detector per floor. So we added 1 additional smoke detector on the second floor, and only that detector was monitored by the security system. The other 3 house detectors per code that were not monitored by the security system. I questioned why the security company did not use the house detectors I already had and was told they could not. It turns out they could have BUT the alarm companies make a lot more money selling you additional sensors. Fast forward to 2007 and my new home. I got so frustrated paying ADT to service my system ($400 for a new key pad!!) that I decided to do the security system myself. This time the building code required us to have 10 smoke detectors for the house - yikes! So there was no way I was going to have 10 of those plus another few for the alarm system. It turns out that if you find the right alarm company - there is a little interface board that can montior the signal used my your home smoke detectors to alert each other when there is an alarm. Ever wonder why or how all you house smoke detectors go off when one (like the kitchen) detector goes off? Code requires house smoke detectors be hard wired in a chain - and that is done using 3 conductor wire - either 14/3 or 12/3. Two of the wires are for 120 volt power but the third wire (the red one) is used to carry a low voltage signal that allows all of the detectots to know when any one of them is outputting an alarm condition. If you tap into that signal your security system can monitor you home smoke detectors - with no additional smoke detectors needed. Now here's the catch. I was told (but I never verified this) that you can't pass the building inspection if you have a low voltage wire that is tied to your house smoke detectors and running to your security system. So I added that feature immediately after I moved in. So you can either have two sets of smoke detectors (one just for the house and one set for the security system) or find a security system company that will tie in your home smoke detectors to your security system after you move in. The circuit board to provide this interface is tiny and very inexpensive (maybe 20 dollars in parts & labor to make one). This intreface board is the size of 4 postage stamps and it goes into your security system box. You run a pair of wires to the very first house smoke detector in the chain (usually in the basement). One lead get's tied to the red wire, one to neutral (white) - this is the way the alarm system will sense the 9 volt signal on the line. Another pair of wires from the little interface board goes into you security system as a monitored alarm zone. Most alarm contollers have a special zone set up just for fire alarms. Whenever any house smoke detector goes off, a 9 volt signal is sent down the red wire from that smoke detector to trigger all other detectors to sound off. The security system interface board will sense this voltage (key here - without reducing the load on that red line) and send an alarm to the security minitoring company. Hope that helps.
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I didn't check with my insurance company, but the reason we installed the system was for security, not for the discount. I was, however, still disappointed when I found out how little the discount was. I suspect that the security firms are probably inflating this number to make their service more attractive to people who are on the fence.
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rockmanor
13 years ago
Depending on the size and layout of your home, you may want multiple keypads. We have four and would much prefer to have at least two more but it would be very difficult (& expensive) at this point to add more. Just be sure that the installer doesn't place a keypad where it can be easily viewed from outside.

In the last two years, we've had to replace every one of the builder-installed motion sensors, which were cheap and prone to fail. I don't think there's a huge price difference between cheap equipment and good quality equipment, so go for the better quality.

Consider if your family may be prone to accidentally set off glass-break sensors. They're better than they were 10 - 15 yrs. ago, but can still cause false alarms.

Something we installed last year is a cell phone backup. During and after a series of severe storms last year, we lost our landline phone service but not our cell phone. Whether a crook cuts your phone cable or service is knocked out, it's reassuring to have a cell phone dialer for the monitoring service.
galore2112
13 years ago
If I were a burglar, I'd cut the phone line AND use a cell phone jammer AND the coax (internet or TV).
Monitored security is too easily circumvented.

Get a really LOUD siren and make your whole house flash like a disco ball in case the security system is triggered.
creek_side
13 years ago
Your average residential burglar isn't equipped to circumvent everything. If the phone line is visible, he may think to cut it, or maybe not. Ditto with the cable. Cell phone jammer, I doubt it.

I do agree about having a loud siren, however you should have two, one visible, and one not visible mounted in someplace like a crawl space. Visible sirens or bells can be defeated with a commonly available substance, and some burglars know about it.

Some jurisdictions have siren ordinances. You will want to find out if yours has one before installing one.

Have a local alarm company do the install and set you up with monitoring. It should cost you less, and you should get better service that one of the nationals. Avoid the big names like ADT and Brinks (Broadview). They are marketing driven instead of service driven like the local providers.

You'll want a professional system, not something designed for a quickie homeowner install. It should be primarilly wired, not wireless, although wireless capability is handy for adding things later. Good names for the main panel are Caddx (GE Security), DSC, and Ademco (Honeywell). Avoid anything privately labeled for the installation company like the plague. Personally, I like Caddx.

All your exterior doors should be wired. It isn't necessary to wire all your windows if you have good motion detector coverage. Glass break detectors are somewhat unreliable, while motion detectors are very reliable, if installed correctly. Choose motion detectors over glass breaks, given the choice.

Pet immune motion detectors are available. Visonic brand work well, especially for small pets. Ask your installer about cross zoning to provide extra security against false alarms if you have pets.

Do not allow the alarm company to hook your smoke detectors to the alarm system under any circumstances. Do have them install some separate temperature rise fire detectors. These may lower your home owners insurance rates.

All major manufacturers of alarm panels include the capability for the installer to lock out the homeowner. All the majors does this automatically. It forces you to use their services and is unethical, in my opinion.

Insist that your alarm company not lock out your panel, and that you receive a copy of all programming documents and the installer code. If they refuse, find someone else.
david_cary
13 years ago
Put false phone lines out and monitor for cutting. You can do the same with cable if cable phones are common in your area.

There are far easier ways to circumvent sercurity systems than cell phone jammers. Almost all modern door sensors use a magnet on the door with a sensor in the jamb. How hard do you think it is to find that sensor and put a magnet next to it?

Best to stay away from known brands for the install. Don't you suspect that all ADT installs in a particular area are done pretty much the same way? Don't you think an experienced burglar would know that and would have an easy plan to circumvent?

The other option to gain entry in sided (ie not brick or masonry) houses is to just cut through the siding and then drywall.
phillipeh
13 years ago
Have them put a keypad next to every single entry door. It's really frustrating to have to go the garage door or the master bedroom if you want to open the front door or let the dog out the back door.
brickeyee
13 years ago
"If I were a burglar, I'd cut the phone line AND use a cell phone jammer AND the coax (internet or TV)."

And if the system was any good it would go off at the monitoring center as soon as all communication was lost.

The internet ones work VERY well.

The alarm panel reports status to the center every minute or so.
Loss of status reporting IS an alarm.
galore2112
13 years ago
The internet ones I can understand but phone ones call in every minute ?!
brickeyee
13 years ago
The phone systems look for the 48 VDC that is ALWAYS present on a phone line that is off hook (not being used).
Drop the 48 VDC by cutting the phone line and they use a cell number to notify the CO.

Older systems used a phone line 100% of the time to stay in contact with the monitoring station.

If you want high security it costs money.

Infra-red (IR) motion sensors are popular now, but X-band radar ones are still available.
They can see though walls to some extent and have opt be installed very carefully.

We test the IR ones by gridding the floor out and trying to move without setting them off in every square foot of the grid.
creek_side
13 years ago
I believe brickeyee is discussing sophisticated commercial (data center or the like, perhaps?) security systems, while the OP is asking about home systems.

There are some parallels, but there are significant differences in cost and efficacy.
david_cary
13 years ago
I'm with creekside - I've never heard of a residential system that monitored the line - for that I'd expect you'd need a dedicated phone line - that would be an extra expense. The vast majority of residential systems do not have such monitoring.
creek_side
13 years ago
David, residential monitoring over the Internet is available, and systems can be configured for line cuts. You just have consider all factors, including the reliability of your Internet and/or POTS providers, versus the potential liability for false call outs.

One of the reasons for going with a local alarm company versus the residence oriented nationals is the depth of knowledge of their staff. The nationals employ salesmen. The locals generally employ security system professionals.

The best way is put your own system in and contract directly for monitoring with somebody like AlarmRelay or NextAlarm. It isn't difficult for someone with moderate mechanical and electrical skills, plus you get to do it the way you want while saving money in the process.

Here is a link that might be useful: AlarmRelay
david_cary
13 years ago
ok Creekside - no disagreement. Can you agree that the "vast majority" of residential systems do not have a configuration for line cuts?

Sure monitoring over internet is available - so is a private security guard. Obviously no comparison on cost but the "vast majority" are phone line monitored. I have an ELK system (very high end with many options) and I don't think I even have the option of internet monitoring. Maybe I do and can't think of it now. But I survive with my phone line monitoring with my hidden lines and line cut monitors. I guarantee that is cheaper than internet monitoring. What the heck do you do when the cable modem needs to be reset?
creek_side
13 years ago
I don't know about the majority, since I have never used anyone like ADT or Broadview myself. However, I can tell you that my panels can be configured to sound a local alarm for a line cut.

Internet monitoring is available for $17.95 a month, the same thing I pay for telephone line monitoring. It is even less if you pay by the year.
david_cary
13 years ago
Ok - how much did your system costs that can monitor online? It is a different level of sophistication from a simple phone line system that most people would install. Mine has a internet module that was $200 extra. A quick look on one site had a $350 system with web based monitoring but only 6 inputs and a simple phone based system is $50.

So do you get a call everytime the internet goes down? Is that ever in the middle of the night when servers get maintenance? I still don't see the advantage other that line cut issues which are easy enough to protect against.

Sorry - but I can't imagine relying on the internet for security. If there was a huge advantage, I could see it, but I don't.
creek_side
13 years ago
I don't have Internet monitoring, but it is available for the same price as what I pay for telephone monitoring, $17.95 per month.

The Internet monitoring system that I am familiar with requires a contact ID reporting system, which is an industry standard. It will work with most alarm systems, including Elk. The Internet adapter costs $115 and includes three months monitoring, so the net cost is around $80-$90 depending on how you choose to be billed.

Again, I don't have this system at the moment. Also, while I am aware of the product and service, I have not looked into it in depth at this time. I am waiting to get confirmed, reliable wireless Internet access up and running first.

The Elk Internet module is not comparable to the device I am talking about. The Elk module is designed for multiple tasks and includes a web server. The NextAlarm device is a contact ID reporting interface that uses the Internet as a transmission medium. It does provide for user dial-in via the a special phone number, if the customer's alarm panel has that feature. It also monitors the path to the customer's premises. If it fails, the customer is immediately notified via text message.

The device is manufactured by LinkSys

Here is a link that might be useful:
brickeyee
13 years ago
"I believe brickeyee is discussing sophisticated commercial (data center or the like, perhaps?) security systems, while the OP is asking about home systems. "

The monitoring charges go up, but not as significantly as you would think.

I have both installed and specified everything from home systems to systems used to guard classified locations.
Many of these have NO local sounder on the alarm system.
We want to catch the idiots, not scare them away.

A local only alarm system is hardly worth the noise it produces.

It might get a 911 call when it fails to shut off after a while, but most if the time the owner has set the thing off so many times the neighbors learn to just ignore the alarm and wait for 'Old Bill to shut off his alarm again' often at 2:00 AM.

Most police departments no longer allow direct connections to them since there are so many false alarms.
creek_side
13 years ago
It might get a 911 call when it fails to shut off after a while, but most if the time the owner has set the thing off so many times the neighbors learn to just ignore the alarm and wait for 'Old Bill to shut off his alarm again' often at 2:00 AM.

It's a little different out in the country, especially when you have only a few neighbors. We look out for each other. Someone's security alarm going off will definitely get a neighbor to respond.

While you may want to catch the beggars, I would prefer to scare them off. Without a local alarm, they would have plenty of time to do their worst before LE could get here after being notified by the monitoring center.

The loud alarm tells the bad guys that LE has been notified, and one or more heeled neighbors will be on their way in short order. They aren't going to hang around.
galore2112
13 years ago
"We want to catch the idiots, not scare them away."

Actually, I'd rather scare them away than catch them.

And a loud (!), obnoxious siren together with flashing lights will distract even the coolest burglar and make him/her take a hike...
dixiedoodle
13 years ago
I haven't read all of the responses in great detail, so forgive me if this isn't pertinent. But, we have a home security system by Honeywell that includes glassbreak sensors, infrared motion sensors that cover the entire house (even second floor), multiple control panels (both audio and video capable), and wireless door alarms. The system is monitored through VoIP as we do not have a telephone line for our house. We use Vonage for our home phone. The monitoring service was $200 for the year. It does, indeed, send a signal to the monitoring station every minute. And, it has, indeed, been a true PITA! We live in the country and our cable service is fine for cable television but awful for internet service. It seems as if each time the wind blows, the service "skips." If we had to do it over again, we'd probably just put in the phone line and have either VoIP or cellphone backup for the security system.
We really like the Honeywell system though...we pieced it together with the help of a commercial installer that freelances on the weekends. I interviewed both Brinks and ADT...way too much focus on sales rather than service, IMO.
emknc
13 years ago
Do: utilize a loyal terrier/retriever mix who knows when (and at what) to bark, plus a Remington 870 Express with 7 rounds of #1 buckshot in the pipe.

Don't: buy or build in a location where you actually require "security" beyond deadbolts, window locks, appropriate exterior lighting, common sense and routine alertness.

Do: pay the premiums on your homeowner's insurance policy when they're due.

Don't: think anything other than a life is irreplaceable; it's not. And think before you employ Do #1 - dialing 911 is generally your best option.
gopintos
13 years ago
Before I thought to even ask or research about a security system on the forum, we already signed a contract with ADT. I was pretty happy because it was half the price of the first quote, and we are 2 miles from small town, and 20 miles for next largest town, so just never thought to check on a more local outfit.

Okay so anyways, we just finished up our install the other day. So we are still on the learning cycle, which means we are not "live" with any alarms calling anyone unless it is fire.

Okay so yesterday morning, my DH forgets and opens the door. So the count down begins. He keeps punching in the code, and telling it to Stay, like it was the dog. I guess he was thinking that since he was Staying, that should shut it off.

Well it didn't. It was engaged so it needed to be code, then OFF.

So the countdown has begun with the initial inside alarm, and it is talking to you, so everyone in the house hears it. I kept thinking, okay he is a highly intelligent fella, it is just a matter of time before he shuts it off. I guess everyone else in the house was thinking the same thing, but eventually I got up and the teenager in the house had also already begun his crawl out of bed and he turns it off, but not before the BIG siren goes off outside.

Okay so anyways, this was at 6:40 yesterday morning. We don't have real close neighbors breathing down our neck, but they are plenty close to hear this blarring alarm going off inside and outside at 6:40 a.m. on a Saturday morning.

So THIS morning, at 6:40 in the morning, guess who was out mowing his yard? Coincendence? Maybe lol, but I think not. haha

We wouldn't be able to hear his mowing too awfully much anyways if we were still in bed, we are insulated pretty well, but I had already been up with the horses, but anyways, we got a kick out of it :-)
brickeyee
13 years ago
"Sorry - but I can't imagine relying on the internet for security. If there was a huge advantage, I could see it, but I don't."

Is is pretty much required for all security systems for DOD and the various three letter agencies.

It works very well for these and also for home systems.

Any service provider that takes their system down for regular maintenance should be fired anyway.
It is one thing if something fails, it is another to not have a hot spare operating before you take equipment off-line.

Really high security facilities have a backup system to the internet system, often a phone line or cell phone.
jolynna
13 years ago
For those just starting the building process, DON'T give the security a big down payment before they have done any work. Looks like the company that was supposed to install our system spent our initial payment on something else and now can't do the job. We are meeting with our lawyer next week to file a lawsuit...which means more money gone we weren't counting on spending.

I'm sick. Check your security company out carefully. And even if they have good references if they ask for several $K up front be suspicious. Our company had good references but evidently in a tough economy--our community is very depressed now--their situation changed.
worthy
13 years ago
I've never heard of a residential system that monitored the line

It's commonly used here instead of cell backup in bad cell reception areas.

My security service provider for 20 years in a rare moment admitted that the main value of the security system is to document the break-in. By the time the private guards or police respond, the intruder is normally long gone.

Builders here rarely alarm the second floor openings or the garage. I do both.

The "sophistication" of local burglars is in all but rare cases limited to the size of their work boots--used to kick in the front door or basement glass.

Several gated homes in our former neighbourhood had 24-hour guard services and private guards. A little beyond my budget!
worthy
13 years ago
Of course, even billionaires can't save themselves if the criminal is determined or the "protector" demented. One of billionaire banker/philanthropist Edmond Safra's bodyguards started a fire so he could put it out and impress Safra. He lost control of the fire and the banker couldn't break out of his fortress home, nor the other bodyguards break-in before it was too late.

Security System - dos and donts

Comments (27)

emilynewhome

arch123

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