Miele also has a model with Rotisserie. It is a split unit with two smaller ones than the one larger in Thermador, but it is there. We have seen it in person in the 30 inch :).

amirm, thanks for the tip. I just went and looked at the Mieles....I guess I'll have to schedule a visit to their show room to understand the differences between "B" and "BP" models...I wish they had a compare feature on their website! But I'll try to check into them even though I'm not crazy about paying for all the programmed cooking that I don't need....

"B" and "BP" are identical except for the porcelain finish and the presence or absence of self-cleaning.

The "B" version in any model is the one with the perfectclean finish in lieu of self-clean.
The "BP" is the exact same oven WITH the self-clean.

By all means, go to their distributor (not a retailer) and get a demo. The ones near Seattle area do an excellent job. Before going there, I thought all the pre-programmed stuff was a waste of time. But after the demo, I got to appreciate little things like being able to name different settings and recalling them that way. The Gaggenau that we are getting in contrast, has nothing by cryptic icons but it has a better rotisserie and we like the side openning door.

Just out of curiosity, amirm, what makes the Gag rotisserie better? I thought the looks of the double one in the Miele was a bit wierd but without any other knowledge didn't want to nix it. I was impressed with the Therm one....but have had the opportunity to see it demo'd. I went to the Gagg demo also...those windows are beautiful...I've just heard from too many friends in my area about long wait times for Gagg parts when there is a problem so am wary.

The main thing that with a single one, you can put something as big as 13 pounds or so on it. Or two smaller birds/cuts of meat, each 6 pounds. In contrast, there is no way to put 13 pounds on either one of the Miele rotisseries. They are made out of much thinner materia and just aren't sturdy enough to do that.

Mind you, it was not a huge consideration as 90% of the time, you are doing a chicken and it weighs less than 6 pound.

The other nit is how they assemble. With Miele, you have two things to shove in there. The salesman had real difficulty getting them in although the rep got them in there quick. The Gagg unit is a bit better in that respect. So do try to play with them.

Eithe way though, it is a very worthwhile option to get. People talk about fast ovens and such. For us, a fast meal is to put a bird in there with some rub, make some salsa to go with it and wraps and we are in business in no time! Healthy and tasty. I don't know why more people don't opt for a rotissserie. For us it is a must have and we can't wait to retire the "showtime" we use for that right now.

BTW, if you like the Miele otherwise, do get it. It is a beautiful machine. The fact that we were getting the combi steam oven is what finally pushed us hard into Gagg line.

Amirm, that's very interesting...as I am also in love with the Gagg combi and have been turning myself upside down trying to figure out how to have a Therm pro-style oven with the Gagg combi...I would have to pick probably the worst style combo! We have an old house and I really liked those Therm knobs...but I may have still have to reconsider. We too love to roast a chicken with some salsa and tortillas--but I also want the delay bake for having dinner ready when we arrive home after 4:00 or 5:00 baseball games. I also loved that Therm speed convection for my son's favorite frozen items: quick chicken drummettes, taquitos, etc. I so far have not found that speed convection feature on any oven except the Therm. The Gagg doesn't have it, does it?

OK, some folks want a rotisserie and some don't -- I didn't. We can roast without it or grill just fne, but I do understand that not all the country can grill 12 months out of the year.

However -- does anyone use a delay bake? I have had it on several ovens and never used it. It's hard for me to imagine what I would use it for. If the OP asked about it, I'm thinking it muct be important for some, but for what?

No, it does not have a speed function. And I hear you on the ultra modern look of Gagg.

At the same time, I would say that while we all worry so much about the look of these things, ultimately, the usability is everything. There is more enjoyment from the food being cooked in the kitchen, than looking at it sitting there! So I would not let the look get in the way of getting the right equipment.

As to delay bake, I looked at the manual for Gagg. It has a timer which can shut the machine down. So it knows how to control it. But in my quick read, I could not tell if it could turn it on. So you may want to download a copy and talk to them. I suspect the machine could easily be software upgraded to do such a thing but sadly, one cannot hold breath, waiting for them to do it.

The other solution is to get the Gagg oven+combi and then pair it up with a micowave speed oven that has delayed start. That way, when you can be there to cook, you can use the Gagg. And have speed functionality to boot. Others can advise if GE Adventium and such have the functionality.

You use the delay feature when you want to come home to dinner hot in the oven--it's been cooking while you were gone, but if you had turned it on when you left, it would have been charcoal if you hadn't delayed the start time. I love this feature and would use it even more if I were more organized :)

We have a Gaggenau combi-steam oven stacked over a Gagg convection oven. Both ovens can delay start as well as do timed operation. What's not obvious (at least to me) is that you first select the mode & temperature you want, which of course starts the oven. If you also want the duration controlled by the oven, you then press the Timer (clock symbol) button, enter the duration time, and press the checkmark symbol button to accept it. Then, if you want delayed start, you press the Timer button twice, enter the END clock time, and press the checkmark button to accept it. If the "end time" minus the "duration time" is later than the current time, the oven will then shut down and wait for its calculated start time. This may sound a bit involved but you can punch in the required entries in very little time.

We use delay start for jobs like steaming veggies and/or rice in the combi oven where there is little chance of them spoiling while waiting for the start. I have used delay start for preheating the convection oven to have it ready at a particular time.

Thanks to everyone for your responses! Gizmomike, thanks for letting me know that delay bake exists on Gagg. I do know, armirm, that I should concentrate on functionality over design but I just keep hoping to get it all! And, hollylh, you have exactly described why I want delay bake. My son is an over the top baseball player and we regularly get home from games, hot and tired, at 7:00 or later...I don't want to have to start cooking then and when I do, we end up eating at 8 or later sometimes...much too late, especially for kids. So I've some alternatives now to think about...and a visit to Miele to schedule, I guess! Thanks again, all.