Shower stone tiles & grout remain wet/dark

14 years ago

I just finished reading the awful account of a bathroom remodel nightmare posted last year by LadyCFP, along with some similar threads about plugged weepholes and bad pans, and I have the sinking feeling that we're in the same boat. For various reasons (other house defects combined with health problems), our master bath shower received little use for the first 15 mos. that we owned our new home. I still use the tub about as often as the shower.

In the last 2 - 3 months we've finally been able to use our bathroom. Last week, I mentioned to dh that I'd noticed an area at my end (the shower is about 12' long) where the stone floor (4" squares) & grout appeared wet 24 hrs. after my last shower, and there were some discolored areas at his end of the shower. I scrubbed the floor with SoftScrub w/ bleach, which removed some of the discoloration but had no other effect. We run a ventilating fan during/after showers, and currently run a 40 pt. dehu in the master bath nearly 24/7 due to mild, wet weather in the very humid south.

This weekend, I noticed that the stone & grout still have some damp looking patches at both ends, away from where the water hits, 36 hrs. after last use, and at dh's end there are several places where the dark appearance extends up the wall grout 2" - 3", in an area that's not hit by the shower spray. Beneath the bathroom is a garage, so dh pulled out the insulation he installed last winter and found no sign of damp under the shower. His closet abuts the shower, and a Damp-Rid container tucked in a corner by the shower fills in less than two weeks.

Dh removed the metal drain cover and tried to inspect, but didn't have much success. I guess we need something like a dental mirror and strong flashllight to get a good look. Before we start doing any demo, I want to verify that we can get replacements for the stone tiles, in hopes that we won't be pulling up the entire shower floor and will only be replacing a few pieces.

Do I understand correctly that to inspect/unplug weepholes, we will have to remove the stone around the drain? Is there any hope of doing that without destroying it? How do we unplug the weepholes? Are there any special tools required?

I'm hoping this can be a DIY job, because we're tapped out after paying $$$ to repair water intrustion problems, regrade, install proper drainage outside, etc. The builder lost money on this spec house that we bought when it was 98-99% complete, and he has not been very good about addressing other issues. (Actually, he's been a drama queen who's cried, theatened suicide, and said he was quitting everything & moving to FL.)

If it's not a DIY job, could you please suggest questions to ask tile pros to determine if they really know their stuff? I can sell my grandmother's china, or a kidney, if we have to raise funds (only sort of kidding.)

Thanks in advance for your advice. I'll check in daily and will try my best to answer any...

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Comments (3)

bill_vincent
14 years ago
Do I understand correctly that to inspect/unplug weepholes, we will have to remove the stone around the drain? Is there any hope of doing that without destroying it? How do we unplug the weepholes? Are there any special tools required?

It CAN be done, even as a DIY task. You need to cut the grout joints around the tiles you're going to remove, and then use a hammer and chisel. once you have the tiles out, you need to be very careful not to damage the pan membrane. All it takes is a pin prick, and the whole thing is coming out. Once you clear the weepholes, though, you need to tape them off and water test it before you put it all back together to make sure it's still watertight.
rockmanor
Original Author
14 years ago
Thanks, Bill, that is reassuring. Dh is reasonably handy and will take his time with this job.

What do you suggest using to clear the weepholes? I ran across a comment on another board about a 90-degree angle attachment for a dremel. If such a thing exists, would it be an appropriate tool to use? Is there a universal size for weephole openings?
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I'd prefer that more grout had been left in the joints. They look dished out a bit too much, where too much grout was removed during the cleanup phase. I'd have preferred the grout to be more flush with the face of the tile. Looking closely at the first two photos, the darkened grout lines are all parallel to one another. In the first photo you can see the wet grout lines are all parallel to the edge of the drain. That leads me to believe that the "uphill" edges of the tiles are acting like mini dams and holding water, they are preventing water from easily flowing downhill to the drain. The second closeup photo, you see the same effect. All the damp grout lines are again parallel to one another. Again, to me that reflects a drainage issue. Not necessarily with the amount of floor pitch, but with the grout lines being so dished out that they hold water and slow drainage. Marble is porous and can absorb water. With the grout lines being a bit too raked out, the edges of the marble hexes are exposed. Water held against the tile edge can lead to absorption into the marble. The crack in the grout in that second photo, you also wrote that there are other cracks. That's usually a sign of too much water used in the grout mix, or that sanded grout should have been used instead of unsanded. Unsanded should be used in joints less than 1/8" wide. Cracks can also indicate movement in the floor, but that shouldn't be an issue with a properly set Kerdi Tray. As far as him having used a preformed Kerdi-Tray, if he did, it appears that is was certainly cut down in an awkward manner. The drain is no where near centered in the shower. So if he did some filling here and there with mud or thinset to even out the floor pitch or edge elevations, that could have be part of the problem. But that's supposition on my part. About the only other thing I could question is that often times with small tiles, when the sheets are set into the thinset, thinset can ooze up between the hex tiles and partially fill the grout lines. That thinset needs to be cleaned out so the grout lines can be completely filled with grout. If it's not, you can get uneven thicknesses of grout, think of it as a veneer of grout over a blob of thinset. That can result in uneven water absorption, the grout cracking, etc. All that aside...with this being your second go-around, he should have install the sloped Kerdi Tray and thinsetted it to the subfloor. Then he should have set the Kerdi drain. Then he should have thinsetted Kerdi Membrane (an orange colored sheet material) over the Kerdi Tray, then tiled on the Kerdi Membrane. I'd be interested in how he tied the Kerdi Membrane in with the wall membrane IF he used Kerdi Membrane over the Kerdi Tray. Best. Mongo
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I am definitely not a pro, but if it is a large portion of the floor and staying wet for a week+, then I would say yes. To me that would indicate a good amount of water not draining and standing water with no place to go is never a good thing. Alternatively if it is that the ratio of water was incorrect when mixing the grout, then the grout will be weak and crack/crumble fairly quickly. As I mentioned in some of my comments from my original post, after 2 years with our contractor we gave up as they were useless, but our area at the end of the process was relatively small and it was clear they were not going to fix it. I would press hard for them to fix the problem, it really is the right thing to do. May require them to rip out the floor and pan, but a good contractor should accept that and you will be much happier.
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With a center drain and a mud bowl, I have no problems going up to a 4" tile. Going larger than that and tile rocking and lippage can start to be an issue due ot the compound curves of a mud bowl. Depends on the size of the shower and shape of the bowl, the larger the shower the easier it is to get larger tiles to conform. That's my experience. If you want larger tiles, with a center drain the installer can do a four-plane inverted pyramid shaped bowl. You'd have four triangular planes going from the shower wall to the drain, and you'll have tile cut lines going from the corners of the shower to the drain. Or you can use a linear drain and use tiles as large as are practical. As you lose grout lines, you lose potential traction underfoot. So check the wet coefficient of friction of the tile you plan to use to make sure it won't be a slip hazard. The only single piece stone slab shower pans I've fabricated myself have been out of soapstone.
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bill_vincent
14 years ago
Is there a universal size for weephole openings?

Not really. Some are small 3/8" x 1/8" oval openings, others are 3/4" slots. Different sizes and shapes for different drains. For ANY of them, an ice pick will work.

Shower stone tiles & grout remain wet/dark

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bill_vincent

rockmanor
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Shower stone tiles & grout remain wet/dark

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bill_vincent

rockmanorOriginal Author

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